From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #116 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, April 16 2002 Volume 05 : Number 116 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Hello ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] nomenclature ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] later ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] 2 questions and a playlist ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] Here it is...Read and Burn 01 [Tim ] Re: Re: Re: [idealcopy] Hello [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:53:46 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums Mezzanine - yeah, a great record. Aside from Unfinished Sympathy and Karmacoma I'd never really liked them before that point but Mezzanine blew me away. Looking forward to the next one. another the Keith > andrew said > > Here I disagree: "Protection" might be their best song, but I prefer > > "Blue Lines" as an album (more consistent, hangs together better) - but > > "Mezzanine" is one of my absolute favourite albums, *fullstop*. :) > Keith said > yeah. mezzanine isn't as immediate as the first two, but it's great. i think > massive attack could well be the most influential act of the > 90's...(protection is still my personal fave, but the version of light my > fire is dire - i couldn't believe that a group i liked so much could cover a > great song so badly. i switch it off...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:00:08 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] later I surprisingly found myself being really impressed by So Solid Crew this week. I can take or leave rap normally but I really liked the way they orchestrated the song (there are dozens of them and they kept coming off their seating rapping into mikes). Cornershop were really good too. My favourite Later moment was when Scott Walker appeared around the time of Tilt a few years ago. He refused to appear in the opening line-up (Jools introduced a gap) and then came on in shades to sing the last song on the album if memory serves ("I'm gonna quit") looking petrified. It was like seeing a deer caught in headlights. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] later > Keith, > > << And then Jools introduces the acts which he has said basically conforms to > the following - big current act, fair to middling act, bit of a legend, and > upcoming act. >> > > Don't forget the token "world music" act that only gets one song.... > > Unfortunately Later is very much the domain of the big record label - one > suspects the Later booker's contacts book is none too big. So someone > completely independent like Wire, or the Fall, or a "legendary" act without a > current release (eg Television last year, which would have been perfect as > they were in London) would struggle to get on. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:33:41 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Hello - ----- Original Message ----- From: Bart van Damme To: Keith Knight > > > Reuters is also the first thing I heard by Wire and also around the same > time. So... I guess you must be in you late 30's/early 40's too then? > - ----------- Aw, thanks Bart but I'm sadly 45 -although I don't mind it from a musical pov as I'm old enough to remember the 60s, grew up in the early 70s which I still love (prog, glam, early Virgin stuff, Krautrock), was not too old for punk and was able to ignore the early 80s. - ------------- > For me definitly DOME 1 [and perhaps Bruce's Shivering Man]. But I see you > HAVE some solo stuff in your list! Yes, I've heard Dome 1 (albeit not for a long time) but not the Shivering Man, so thanks. another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:49:40 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums Perhaps this is a Keith thing - I didn't understand the Stone Roses at the time and still don't. Probably age... Some more great second albums off the top of my head: Too-Rye-Aye - Dexy's Midnight Runners (I'm well prepared to believe that I'm the only person in the world to think this, as everyone else seems to believe now that Don't Stand me Down is their masterpiece whereas it remains the most disappointing record ever to be released IMO - Too-Rye-Aye knocks spots off it and its predecessor (which is admittedly rather good). Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night - Peter Hammill (Hammill by the way is THE man for me musically- anyone else out there? Hammill of course could be in a discussion on great twenty-second albums). Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt (a record which 28 years later remains my #1 of all time - I still cry whenever I play it. Something of an improvement on End of an Ear). I agree on Vega/Rev (a really underrated album), Metal Box and For your Pleasure but Zep One every time over its heavymetal creating successor. another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: Neil Soiseth ; Wirelist Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums > From: Neil Soiseth > > > Far and away the most disappointing second album I've ever heard is the > > Stone Roses' Second Coming. I owned it for exactly 3 plays before heading > > off to the used shop. > > i seem to be one of the few people who doesn't like the first one either! > keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:54:33 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Hello God, no... another the Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury To: John Roberts ; Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Hello > > I'm surprised that none of the Keiths want to be called Keef... > > John > > I went through my Keef Le Groover spell some years ago! > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:05:56 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] nomenclature Paul wrote: > > new keith, feel free to go by "another the keith" as i often use that one > myself...only with paul on the end instead of keith ;o) > "another the Keith" it shall be! another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:24:50 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] later > My favourite Later moment was when Scott Walker appeared around the time of > Tilt a few years ago. He refused to appear in the opening line-up (Jools > introduced a gap) and then came on in shades to sing the last song on the > album if memory serves ("I'm gonna quit") looking petrified. It was like > seeing a deer caught in headlights. > > another the Keith yep. whilst it was not exactly a great musical moment, it was absolutely rivetting. Just a slightly thinning on top scott and an electric guitar. very intense. and if i remember rightly he'd gone by the time jools thanked everyone at the end. tim rose was similarly mesmorsing. one minute he was the genial old guy with a father xmas beard, laughing and joking with jools and then he picked his acoustic up and sang 'hey joe' as if his life depended on it. keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:21:04 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 2 questions and a playlist that's where mine came from last year -- or, rather, the used bin's discard pile. which means they probably wanted $1 but i quite likely got it for free as a (manically) frequent buyer ... dan >In a message dated 4/15/02 4:26:00 PM Central Daylight Time, Rain19c@aol.com >writes: > > >> also, saw a copy of swim team #1 in the used bin the other day...*sigh* >> >> ~michael >> > >OOOOOOOHHH...i still don't have this!....how much was it??? > >Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:30:47 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 2 questions and a playlist > > also, saw a copy of swim team #1 in the used bin the other day...*sigh* > > > > ~michael > > > > OOOOOOOHHH...i still don't have this!....how much was it??? > > Robert Lynn it's available for a fiver from post everything, and it really is worth it. a great album that i play a lot. apart from the colin stuff i love the ronnie and clyde and silo tracks. probably best fiver you'll spend this year. (i've got #2 on order so i can't comment on that yet) keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 00:40:28 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums > Perhaps this is a Keith thing - I didn't understand the Stone Roses at the > time and still don't. Probably age... > Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night - Peter Hammill (Hammill by the way is > THE man for me musically- anyone else out there? Hammill of course could be > in a discussion on great twenty-second albums). Another the Keith I thought *not* liking Peter Hamill was a Keith thing - didn't he have a track entitled 'not for Keith'. (i only know this cos a mate of mine is a big hammill fan and in our younger days he would subject me to endless hammill solo stuff. it was something of a relief when i found out that title - he stopped playing him for me!) talking of the stone roses - heard on the radio that this weeks 60th anniv. edition of the nme has the top 50 artists of all time (not sure what it's based on) and the stone bloody roses are in the top 10 with the pistols, beatles, radiohead, etc. our friends from the north, the smiths, apparently win... keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 01:12:04 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cool Factory collectables Mark Wrote: >There's supposed to be a Fac specialist shop in Mcr - but I've never found it >and can't remember the name. It's in the suburbs somewhere, not in the city >centre... Hmm. There used to be a stall in Aflecks Palace called 'Prenez Votre Desires' (pardon my French) which sold nothing but Factory items at ludicrous prices. It had a Fac number as well..not sure if they owned it. Don't recall ever actually buying anything there..it was more of a factory museum than a shop. There was a funny, musty smelling record shop on Swan Street called 'Record Peddlar', the kind of dusty old shop fast dissapearing and he specialised in Factory stuff. Bought lots of Durutti Column, ACR etc from there. Thats closed now too. Don't know where this shop in the suburbs is. The only suburban Manchester record shops that spring to mind are the Nick-Hornby-esque KingBee records in Chorlton, and 'Sifters' in Burnage (immortalised in a song by Oasis!). Neither are fac-specialists but the former usually has a few Fac things...and has had a 7" of Dot-Dash in the window for at least 10 years fading in the sunlight...it was hanging off by one staple last time I went there. Tim who lives around the corner from the wonderful Ben Kelly designed Factory Offices (now a nightclub which probably makes a lot more money than the Hac ever did) and location of 'that' #30,000 boardroom table and the zinc roof that can only be seen from a helicopter. ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 02:52:48 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Here it is...Read and Burn 01 Here it Is! Someone at Posteverything is clearly a frustrated graffiti artist judging by the seriously hip-hop handwriting on my Jiffybag. Lets rip it open in a punk rock style...... Hmm...Its in one of those carboard CD folder things. Very Post-Rock! Minimal sleeve art. Reminds me of 'The A List'. Looks very much like one of a series. Funny how Wire has spent the last 2 years tentatively stepping back into this rum business of releasing proper records! A Demo CD, a T Shirt, a live CD, a remix 7" single and now a bona fide official EP with just over 16 minutes of all new Wire material. It'll be in the shops and everything. It might even get reviewed. Wire is going public at last. Wire has become a beat-group again...for now. If you've ordered yours from posteverything.com (if not why not) you'll have got a piece of paper onto which has been somewhat cheaply printed an image from the new video. No big EMI budgets at PinkFlag! However, on the rear you will find all four have signed the thing....with Bruce signing in a vivid riot of red. All four are pictured, perhaps squashed together in a small cupboard like in the Cure video...Graham has a somewhat unsettling stare. And the music. The first thing I noticed was the welcome return of the Robert Gotobeds snare drum. It is the first sound you hear on the first track (as it was for the first few early gigs) and is the driving force throughout this record. In case you were unsure, relax because this is the best Wire record since A Bell is A Cup, and it is 'that' snare drum that is the principle reason. This is Mr Gotobeds record...and about time too. Its like Wir never happened. As Wireviews point out this month. Wire Rock. And indeed they do. 12 Times U is a useful pointer to the overall feel of this record. Its short, Loud, brutal and fast. A Minature pink flag perhaps. (A Flag in A Jar?). 'Its All in the Art of Stopping' opens with 'that' snare crack. Welcome back Robert! It sounds like Silo on ampehtemines, which is no bad thing. Colin sings a pleasingly manic vocal, with a very 1st generation Wire vocal tag. Later he will impersonate a donkey. No Really. Good start. Very Wire. But louder. And Faster. That will be the theme of the whole record. 'I Don't Understand' is a definite standout track and definitely one for the fans. A huge nod towards 'Advantage in Height' in the opening riff, I can hear a 80s Wire synth bassline in the background (although it could be treated guitar), and the welcome arrival of a dugga dugga dugga bit. And it closes with Colin doing the kind of shouting we haven't heard since 154. Comet echoes the manic rythmn of 12 Times U, and reminds me a bit of Colins remix of Silo. "Its Coming Fast...Its a Comet...Coming this way with you're name on it". Yay! The chorus is "And the Chorus Goes....And the Chorus Goes...Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Bang", the kind of pop-song pisstake last heard on Map Ref and perhaps another knowing tongue-in-cheek touch for us fans. Germ Ship is perhaps the second real standout track for me. A second chord is added to the mix and this as near as we will get to a Wire-Pop song. Jagged shards of buzzsaw guitar will saw yer f**kin' ears off if you play it loud enough. 1st Fast......turn it up! At this point your either a bit dissapointed or thrilled to bits. If the former I suggest you crank up your stereo and rewind and start again. This is a re-energised Wire. Be thankful. The Agfers of Kodack. Is that Graham Lewis we hear trying to shout louder than Colin Newman? Or is it a treated Newman vocal. Not sure. This is perhaps the weakest track because I can't help feeling Lewis's (if it is he) vocal would be more effective delivered in his usual baritone over the manic thrash of the music would have made a nice contrast. His vocal reminds me a bit of Ian Curtis vocals on those early Warsaw records...you know he can do much more interesting things with his vocal chords than this. Still it craps on anything on Manscape so What can you say?! So in short a darn good record. Many key elements are there: angular cut-up guitars, motoring drums, distorted bassline, duggaduggadugga and lots and lots of shouting. All this intercut with very cool electronic production tricks here and there....missed them? Go back and listen again. For example, Check the low-bandwidth lead into the chorus on track one. The 2002 equivalent of that bit of feedback that opens The Beatles 'I Feel Fine'. Not heard that before on a rock record. They'll all be doing it in five years time. But it aint the perfect Wire record. Those hoping for arty 154-style epics, Ambitious-Kidney-Buzz-Drops or Dome-style electronic mangling will be dissapointed...but maybe we'll get some of that on R&B 2, 3, 4 or 5. We are in Pink Flag territory here. What we do get is a fantastic, angry EP of new items from Wire and their finest work for over 15 years. Will that do yer? Beats listening to remixes of f**king Erasure surely? Tim Robinson. p.s. Where's Graeme Rowland? He'll f**king love this one! ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 04:13:43 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: [idealcopy] Hello Sadly Dunstable's famous (I say that but I can't >remember the name offhand) music venue of the 60s / early 70s where the >likes of the Stones and Zeppelin played is no more, not that it ever had a >gig on in my time here. > /////shame on you for your lack of bedfordshire cultural knowledge :-) dunstable had 2 really famous venues , the queensway hall (where i used to work.....) and the california ballroom. both were very regualar venues thru the 60's/70's , in punk times the pistols played the QH and the clash played both , plus others too numerous to mention. the cali got turned into a housing estate around 1980 , the QH was bulldozed last year and is now an asda supermarket. bizarrely for a town its size , luton has never had a decent venue that lasted more than the blink of an eye. only place i ever saw gigs was the library theatre , yep things were so bad bands booked that for lack of any better option. luton managed 2 great acts in the late 70's/early 80's , uk decay and click click. but i won't bore you with that stuff (yet...) p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #116 *******************************