From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #114 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, April 15 2002 Volume 05 : Number 114 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Sunday Listening [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] maps and attachments..... [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] cool Factory collectables [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] SPANNER IN THE WORKS DEPT. MESSAGE NO.1 [MarkBursa@aol.co] Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory ["dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sunday Listening Good gravy Robert,you must live a gifted life or summat,I rose at 6;00 a.m,cooked breakfast,did the weeks paper-work(for my one-man business)spent couple of hours digging in the garden,watering the plants etc, sat down to a nice cold IPA (beer),called a motel chain to set up rooms for the first shriekback convention talking place in Ashville,N.C end September,put on a c.d of shriekback rarities that I got last week(now playing)and am currently waiting for Nadine to come 'round and share some 'precious moments' with and get stoned no doubt. how do I do it you ask.dunno mate.later!Ari - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > Good to see all my ideal copy friends chatting away > this morning!..The rain > has subsided and out comes the sun here in the > beautiful midwest (USA) and so > far this fine morning (been up since yesterday!) i > have listened to: > > Billy MacKenzie-Beyond the Sun > David Sylvian - Brilliant Trees > Erasure - Loveboat > Pet Shop Boys - Release (love it more and more with > each listen) > Lee Perry & the Upsetters - Super Ape > Return of > the Super Ape > Dave Angel - Classics (one of the best Brit techno > artists ever) > Robert Wyatt - The Animals Film > > started spring cleaning of the messy house...so i'm > getting ready to pop on: > > Magazine - Scree (b-sides collection) > Ultravox - Hahaha > John Foxx- Pleasures of Electricity > New Order - Brotherhood > Wire- Manscape > > gotta love the 5cd carousel changer.... > > Robert Lynn ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:38:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] maps and attachments..... How on earth do I send a map(from microsoft streets)to a web site?I just tried and all the site got was a load of gibberish,no sign of a map when 'open attachment' was clicked.Ari ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:14:34 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cool Factory collectables >>so, Mark, Keith, anyone...how much is my True Faith 94 promo 'logo-slide' puzzle worth? ;)<< Stick it on ebay and find out! There's supposed to be a Fac specialist shop in Mcr - but I've never found it and can't remember the name. It's in the suburbs somewhere, not in the city centre... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 16:24:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SPANNER IN THE WORKS DEPT. MESSAGE NO.1 Ian & Keith, Considering my grandmother was born in Toxteth perhaps I've got a better claim on scouseness than either of you!! Mark > considering one 'Scouser' was born in the Lake District and the 'other' > lives in North Wales, and therefore there's a good chance of him not being > born anywhere near dear old Liverpool, perhaps this is stretching things > slightly Mr.Bursa?????? ;0) > > (note to everyone else...Mark is the only Copyist to have met me, so he > knows that i 'sound' like i was born at the edge of the Mersey...la...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 15:38:57 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums At 06:53 PM 4/14/2002 +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: >From: Neil Soiseth > >> Far and away the most disappointing second album I've ever heard is the >> Stone Roses' Second Coming. I owned it for exactly 3 plays before heading >> off to the used shop. > >i seem to be one of the few people who doesn't like the first one either! Ha, make that a club of two! If the whole debut lived up the promise of "I Wanna Be Adored," I'd be singing a different tune. FWIW, I also liked "Breaking Into Heaven" or whatever it's called, off the second album. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:14:11 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] recent re-discoveries >>why - if george harrison lost that famous court case over ripping off he's so fine - is MSL still credited (on the recent re-issue) as being written solely by george harrison? don't get that one at all.<< Perhaps under the terms of the legal settlement the writers were paid x million dollars but in return relinquished rights to the tune? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:51:07 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums >most disappointing 2nd album - was tempted to say 'adventure' by television >cos the debut was so sublime, i've noted before, surely, that i vastly prefer adventure to marquee moon, though i'm not sure why --possibly my acknowledged pop sweet teeth (can't think of anything on the first lp to equal glory, ain't that nothin' & careful in that respect), possibly because record acquisition in the semi-rural southern u.s. being as hit-or-miss as it was circa '78, i owned (& repeatedly played) adventure some 14 months before i got marquee. to the list of 2nd lp's that outstrip debuts i'd add killing joke's what's THIS for, not that its s/t predecessor isn't excellent as well -- it's just that when i think of kj in all their glory, i tend to think of tension, unspeakable & the fall of because (which i believe some band later took as their name ... wonder what they sounded like? probably not belle & sebastian). again, i had the 2nd for quite awhile before i heard the first. otherwise, citing suicide's 2nd as superior to their first is just ... highly questionable. most disappointing 2nd lp? probably the gang of 4's solid gold. only what we all want would be worthy of inclusion on entertainment, i'd say. & if i hadn't started warming to it (after only 21-plus years of utter disdain!) a bit a couple of months ago through repeated listenings in the car, the fall's dragnet would rank right up there as well. dan but i'd have to go for 'stupid stupid stupid' >black grape cos the debut was great and this *certainly* wasn't. > >keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:18:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: new crispy ambulance cd Dubious about the pricing....#200 for FAC1? Add a nought on the end.... The "example of memorabilia" looks like the Hacienda membership application form which had the Hacienda spec on it. Got one of those somewhere - as well as my Hac membership card (which expired in 1984!) and has a rather fetching pic of a rather thinner version of me on it ;-) Mark > mark, in case you haven't seen mojo collections the fac 'cool collectables' > are as follows... > fac 145 - 1985 xmas cards (#25) > fac 51 - example of memorabilia > fac 263 - bronze new order bust (#450) > fac 175 - xmas gift 1986 - containing origami factory logo and cassette of > thick pigeons blue xmas (#40) > fac 1 - poster (#200) > fac 86 - origami hacienda (#30) > fac 151 - book, postcards, badges for festival of 10th summer (#20 the lot) > fac 221 - badge (#20) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:57:44 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sunday Listening whereas i just got up (was at the newspaper till 2 a.m. or so, then came home & read a bit) & now have to steel myself to do my federal taxes. (turns out, not overly surprisingly, that alabama's state govt is so congenitally stupid that the downloadable tax-form booklet doesn't actually include the fucking form *itself*, so i'll have to dash over to wherever-the-hell tomorrow to pick one up, though at least filling it out shouldn't involve much, since i got only 2 paychecks after relocating to this benighted backwater.) god only knows what would be appropriate on the stereo ... repeated playings of cheap trick's you're a taxman, mr thief, perhaps (my 2nd ex works in the irs' central office in d.c.)? dan, still trying to remember details from the dream i just had of going through rows & rows of old lp's & 7"s in a shop ... only a couple of nonexistent motors & names b-sides are coming to mind at the moment >Good gravy Robert,you must live a gifted life or >summat,I rose at 6;00 a.m,cooked breakfast,did the >weeks paper-work(for my one-man business)spent couple >of hours digging in the garden,watering the plants >etc, >sat down to a nice cold IPA (beer),called a motel >chain to set up rooms for the first shriekback >convention talking place in Ashville,N.C end >September,put on a c.d of shriekback rarities that I >got last week(now playing)and am currently waiting for >Nadine to come 'round and share some 'precious >moments' with and get stoned no doubt. >how do I do it you ask.dunno mate.later!Ari >--- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: >> Good to see all my ideal copy friends chatting away >> this morning!..The rain >> has subsided and out comes the sun here in the >> beautiful midwest (USA) and so >> far this fine morning (been up since yesterday!) i >> have listened to: >> >> Billy MacKenzie-Beyond the Sun >> David Sylvian - Brilliant Trees >> Erasure - Loveboat >> Pet Shop Boys - Release (love it more and more with >> each listen) >> Lee Perry & the Upsetters - Super Ape >> Return of >> the Super Ape >> Dave Angel - Classics (one of the best Brit techno >> artists ever) >> Robert Wyatt - The Animals Film >> >> started spring cleaning of the messy house...so i'm >> getting ready to pop on: >> >> Magazine - Scree (b-sides collection) >> Ultravox - Hahaha >> John Foxx- Pleasures of Electricity >> New Order - Brotherhood >> Wire- Manscape >> >> gotta love the 5cd carousel changer.... >> >> Robert Lynn > > >===== >everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:06:31 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory >oh yeah, and i forgot these from my list: > >Crispy Ambulance - Plateau Phase > Scissorgun > >The Wake - Harmony > Here Comes Everybody > >Thanks for any help! > >Robert robert, robert, robert ... the crispies, wake & section 25 titles are all easily obtainable domestically at decidedly non-import prices ($13 a disc) from darlashop.com, whom i touted a couple of weeks ago as the source for the new ludus, josef k & life without buildings releases (that i haven't gotten around to ordering yet), as well as one or more stockholm monsters ... dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:43:41 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sunday Listening From: > Good to see all my ideal copy friends chatting away this morning!..The rain > has subsided and out comes the sun here in the beautiful midwest (USA) and so > far this fine morning (been up since yesterday!) i have listened to: > > Billy MacKenzie-Beyond the Sun Ah. Billy MacKenzie. Glad someone out there has given him a mention. What a gorgeous album. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:43:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory << robert, robert, robert ... the crispies, wake & section 25 titles are all easily obtainable domestically at decidedly non-import prices ($13 a disc) from darlashop.com, whom i touted a couple of weeks ago as the source for the new ludus, josef k & life without buildings releases (that i haven't gotten around to ordering yet), as well as one or more stockholm monsters ... >> Absolutely. These things are reissued as a labour of love by James Nice of LTM (who runs the label as a hobby from his spare bedroom - he's actually a lawyer!) so please support his efforts. The fact that Crispy Ambulance have reformed and released a new album (20 years after their debut - is this a record?) is 100% down to the efforts of LTM in discovering and reissuing the back catalogue. There's a good chance of new material by Section 25 this year too, for the same reason. Buying these records directly funds and encourages the bands concerned. Trading CDRs is fine for stuff that is otherwise unobtainable or long out of print, but as Dan says all these albums (with the exception of the ACR stuff which was reissued a few years back by Creation, and I guess may come out on Soul Jazz in future) are in print and well worth your investment... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:58:51 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums dad said > otherwise, citing suicide's 2nd as superior to their first is just ... > highly questionable. i think the 1st is a great statement - it's original, scary, influential (and i love it), but the second is the one i actually like listening to most. and you're gonna think i'm really stupid now, but i also prefer the third (a way of life) too. sorry... incidentally there's a new suicide album coming out later this year - delayed until sept apparently. title not known... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:28:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums hey, now, i may (or may not -- can't remember) be older than you, but i ain't anybody's dad! dan >dad said >> otherwise, citing suicide's 2nd as superior to their first is just ... >> highly questionable. > >i think the 1st is a great statement - it's original, scary, influential >(and i love it), but the second is the one i actually like listening to >most. and you're gonna think i'm really stupid now, but i also prefer the >third (a way of life) too. sorry... >incidentally there's a new suicide album coming out later this year - >delayed until sept apparently. title not known... >keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:55:55 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: new crispy ambulance cd In a message dated 4/14/02 7:09:07 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >They reformed in 1999 for a one-off gig (released as the Accessory after >the >fact CD on LTM) and this led to new music being recorded. They'll be playing > >this year - maybe in the US as well as the UK. i spoke with andrew prinz (of mahogany), and the u.s. seems like a definite for the fall, with mahogany and flin flon supporting. i can't wait :o) - -paul c.d. p.s. for nyc area idealcopyists who like the band tone (opened for wire in d.c. in 2000). they are playing tonight at north 6 in williamsburg brooklyn, only 7 bucks. andrew and i will be there. i'll be wearing a grey mets t shirt. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:47:32 -0400 From: "Creaig Dunton" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums > to the list of 2nd lp's that outstrip debuts i'd add killing joke's what's > THIS for, not that its s/t predecessor isn't excellent as well -- > it's just > that when i think of kj in all their glory, i tend to think of tension, > un*peakable & the fall of because (which i believe some band later took as > their name ... wonder what they sounded like? probably not belle & > sebastian). again, i had the 2nd for quite awhile before i heard > the first. The only Fall of Because I know of was a punk/metal band from the Birmingham area...later became Godflesh (and ironically enough now feature Paul Raven from KJ on bass). Creaig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:30:39 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory amen. my bad not to have noted that every disc in question (other than the life without buildings, of course) is on ltm -- easily the best label on the planet, with every release sumptuously packaged, complete with detailed band histories by mr nice, excellent artwork & a plethora of bonus tracks. my favorite releases on the label are the tunnelvision retrospective & the names' swimming, i'd say. good to see someone following his obsessions after 2 decades ... somewhere i've got dubs of a friend's copies of the intital ltm cassettes by crispy ambulance & a comp with them & section 25, among others, from way back in the early '80s. dan, wondering whether, if he'd had the good sense to go to law school, the world would now have access to cd's of old stuff by the units, minimal man, dangerous girls, cowboys international, the room, hit parade, omega tribe, international language, the nervous ... ><< robert, robert, robert ... > > the crispies, wake & section 25 titles are all easily obtainable > domestically at decidedly non-import prices ($13 a disc) from darlashop.com, > whom i touted a couple of weeks ago as the source for the new ludus, josef k > & life without buildings releases (that i haven't gotten around to ordering > yet), as well as one or more stockholm monsters ... >> > >Absolutely. These things are reissued as a labour of love by James Nice of >LTM (who runs the label as a hobby from his spare bedroom - he's actually a >lawyer!) so please support his efforts. The fact that Crispy Ambulance have >reformed and released a new album (20 years after their debut - is this a >record?) is 100% down to the efforts of LTM in discovering and reissuing the >back catalogue. There's a good chance of new material by Section 25 this year >too, for the same reason. Buying these records directly funds and encourages >the bands concerned. > >Trading CDRs is fine for stuff that is otherwise unobtainable or long out of >print, but as Dan says all these albums (with the exception of the ACR stuff >which was reissued a few years back by Creation, and I guess may come out on >Soul Jazz in future) are in print and well worth your investment... > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 11:35:00 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums > > to the list of 2nd lp's that outstrip debuts i'd add killing joke's what's > > THIS for, not that its s/t predecessor isn't excellent as well -- > > it's just > > that when i think of kj in all their glory, i tend to think of tension, > > un*peakable & the fall of because (which i believe some band later took as > > their name ... wonder what they sounded like? probably not belle & > > sebastian). again, i had the 2nd for quite awhile before i heard > > the first. > > >The only Fall of Because I know of was a punk/metal band from the Birmingham >area...later became Godflesh (and ironically enough now feature Paul Raven >from KJ on bass). > >Creaig that's undoubtedly who i was thinking of. i seem to have this really vague memory of them as having been on the mortarhate (conflict's label) comp who what where when why (immortal in my mind for featuring a brilliant untitled song by moet the poet, who i believe had omega tribe connections) around '83, but probably i'm wrong. dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:03:43 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: new crispy ambulance cd In a message dated 4/14/02 7:44:02 AM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > >only got platau phase myself the live on a hot august night 12" is an absolute must have! the two tracks (concorde square and the presence) are on the ltm re-issue cd, which features the plateau phase lp and the a-side of the sexus 12" as well. - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:05:30 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: OT Re: [idealcopy] cool Factory collectables In a message dated 4/14/02 9:24:38 AM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: >> so, Mark, Keith, anyone...how much is my True Faith 94 promo 'logo-slide' > >> puzzle worth? ;) > >> > >> ian.s.j. > > > >i'll give you a quid for it... > >keith i'll give you 2, hehe - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:09:42 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Hello In a message dated 4/14/02 12:09:33 PM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: >Hi new Keith, or should we better call you Knight as to avoid identification >troubles? [KK?] > > >> I've been lurking here for a few weeks so I guess it's time to say hello. > >> I'm a UK res (Luton). Another Keith unfortunately although I'll doubt >I'll >> be as prolific as Mr Astbury. what's the count on keiths and pauls here? :o) new keith, feel free to go by "another the keith" as i often use that one myself...only with paul on the end instead of keith ;o) as colin newman once said..."welcome welcome" - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:18:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums sorry!!! > hey, now, i may (or may not -- can't remember) be older than you, but i > ain't anybody's dad! > > dan > > > >dad said > >> otherwise, citing suicide's 2nd as superior to their first is just ... > >> highly questionable. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 18:13:42 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory In a message dated 4/14/02 12:31:08 PM, RLynn9@aol.com writes: >Section 25 - The Key of Dreams > Love and Hate > hey robert, these are readily available from many u.s. mail order shops. try darla.com, ab-cd.com, or clairecords.com for starters. there is also a very nice ebay seller from new hampshire (their ebay name slips me for the moment) who sells the cds on ebay with the buy it now price set at fair retail value (usually 13.99-15.99). good luck, paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:26:56 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory > dan, wondering whether, if he'd had the good sense to go to law school, the > world would now have access to cd's of old stuff by the units, minimal man, > dangerous girls, cowboys international, the room, hit parade, omega tribe, > international language, the nervous ... god that's so spooky. i was only thinking of the room today. they were a really under-rated band IMO. i was a big fan of the 'in evil hour' LP (partly produced by tom verlaine btw) - especially 'jackpot jack' with it's 'you hit the jackpot jack with your new pop cack' line. the drummer alan wills (also wild swans) was a friend of a friend, but i only met in him passing myself. he later had a near brush with fame when together with the rooms guitarist and the bass player from the second version of the wild swans, he formed an early 90's pop act that had quite a bit of exposure but whose name escapes me at the moment. still regret not getting the later, now out of print, benny profane albums though. the peel sessions were great. keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:28:57 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SPANNER IN THE WORKS DEPT. MESSAGE NO.1 On Sun, Apr 14, 2002 at 04:24:29PM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Ian & Keith, > > Considering my grandmother was born in Toxteth perhaps I've got a better > claim on scouseness than either of you!! > > Mark My mother's from Childwall. :) Andrew (who suspects he's one of the few Scots on the list) - -- "Dissect a trillion sighs away - well, you got this letter, Jagged pulse slicing my veins; I write to remember." - At the Drive-In, "One Armed Scissor" ('Relationship of Command') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:05:23 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Speaking of Factory other than the jackpot jack 12" (peel sessions versions of studio releases?), i may have everything the room ever did -- the indoor fireworks & in evil hour lp's, clear! 12", waiting room/in sickness & health/things have learnt to walk that ought to crawl (which title should've made them mandatory buying for lovecraft fans!)/whole world sings 7"s, even the bitter reactions tape (albeit a dub). at least, if there's anything else, i probably don't want to know about it at this late date. got a pretty good collection of benny profane releases -- 3 12"s, i think, & the first lp -- off a member of another list a year or so ago ... rather livelier than the room, & really quite good. there seems to have been a 2nd lp -- possibly on cd -- that has eluded me, though. damn. dan >> dan, wondering whether, if he'd had the good sense to go to law school, >the >> world would now have access to cd's of old stuff by the units, minimal >man, >> dangerous girls, cowboys international, the room, hit parade, omega tribe, >> international language, the nervous ... > >god that's so spooky. i was only thinking of the room today. they were a >really under-rated band IMO. i was a big fan of the 'in evil hour' LP >(partly produced by tom verlaine btw) - especially 'jackpot jack' with it's >'you hit the jackpot jack with your new pop cack' line. >the drummer alan wills (also wild swans) was a friend of a friend, but i >only met in him passing myself. he later had a near brush with fame when >together with the rooms guitarist and the bass player from the second >version of the wild swans, he formed an early 90's pop act that had quite a >bit of exposure but whose name escapes me at the moment. >still regret not getting the later, now out of print, benny profane albums >though. the peel sessions were great. >keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:07:22 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SPANNER IN THE WORKS DEPT. MESSAGE NO.1 >My mother's from Childwall. :) > >Andrew (who suspects he's one of the few Scots on the list) i'd bet the farm there are no other arkansans ... dan, descendant of scots, irish & jews ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:43:48 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums On Sun, Apr 14, 2002 at 05:49:03PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: [better second albums] > closer - joy division I genuinely prefer "Unknown Pleasures", but both albums are *so* good it's quibbling. > rhythm & stealth - leftfield I just disagree here, though: though I must admit the only track I really like on Leftism is "Open Up"... > loveless - mbv > nevermind - nirvana Definitely. > protection - massive attack Here I disagree: "Protection" might be their best song, but I prefer "Blue Lines" as an album (more consistent, hangs together better) - but "Mezzanine" is one of my absolute favourite albums, *fullstop*. :) > a couple of contentious ones maybe, but not a bad list of 2nd albums i > prefer to debuts???? Certainly not. :) May I offer: "Screamadelica" - Primal Scream "The Bends" - Radiohead "Doolittle" - the Pixies (contentious, I guess: if you count "Come On Pilgrim", i'll change this to "Surfer Rosa" :) ) "100 Broken Windows" - Idlewild "Reckoning" - REM (contentious, but So. Central Rain does it for me) "Come On, Die Young" - Mogwai "Six" - Mansun "Geogaddi" - Boards of Canada From what I've heard, "The Last Broadcast" by Doves is shaping up to be another of these, though "Lost Souls" is not exactly bad either! Andrew - -- "So what's the worth, of all of this, If the child in your head - if the child is dead?" - - Blur, "Sing" ('Leisure') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:26:05 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > >[better second albums] > >> closer - joy division > >I genuinely prefer "Unknown Pleasures", but both albums are *so* good >it's quibbling. i'll definitely go with u.p. myself. one of the best opening tracks ever (whereas i absolutely can't abide closer's first one, atrocity exhibition ... the lp also contains the only other jd song i can't stand, heart & soul). dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 12:33:17 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums >> 17 seconds - cure >> > >hmmmm...never been sure about this one...i actually like the 1st album a >lot...but Faith (the third) the best..... > >Robert > whereas i'll take pornography over all 3 (& over the subsequent 7 or however many, for that matter), but everything through kiss me ranged from very good to top-notch. i do rank 3 imaginary boys among the top 10 postpunk lp's ever (considering what a subjective term that is, i also include the modern dance, suicide, pink flag, metal box/2nd edition, entertainment, the scream, unknown pleasures, live at the witch trials & mix-up). dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:43:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums > >I genuinely prefer "Unknown Pleasures", but both albums are *so* good > >it's quibbling. > > i'll definitely go with u.p. myself. one of the best opening tracks ever > (whereas i absolutely can't abide closer's first one, atrocity exhibition > ... the lp also contains the only other jd song i can't stand, heart & > soul). > > dan YOU DON'T LIKE 'HEART AND SOUL'!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:54:39 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums andrew said > Here I disagree: "Protection" might be their best song, but I prefer > "Blue Lines" as an album (more consistent, hangs together better) - but > "Mezzanine" is one of my absolute favourite albums, *fullstop*. :) yeah. mezzanine isn't as immediate as the first two, but it's great. i think massive attack could well be the most influential act of the 90's...(protection is still my personal fave, but the version of light my fire is dire - i couldn't believe that a group i liked so much could cover a great song so badly. i switch it off...) > > May I offer: > > "The Bends" - Radiohead > "Come On, Die Young" - Mogwai > "Six" - Mansun > yeah, three i could have easily inc... i think "Screamadelica" was their 3rd though. keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:34:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums << i'll definitely go with u.p. myself. one of the best opening tracks ever (whereas i absolutely can't abide closer's first one, atrocity exhibition ... the lp also contains the only other jd song i can't stand, heart & soul). >> Good grief! How can anyone not like H&S!!??!! Anorak note - Atrocity Exhibition is one of two JD songs that feature Hooky on guitar and Barney on bass. Sound of Music is the other... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:03:39 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] classic 2nd albums nope -- not at all. something about curtis' vocals completely put me off that one. dan >> >I genuinely prefer "Unknown Pleasures", but both albums are *so* good >> >it's quibbling. >> >> i'll definitely go with u.p. myself. one of the best opening tracks ever >> (whereas i absolutely can't abide closer's first one, atrocity exhibition >> ... the lp also contains the only other jd song i can't stand, heart & >> soul). >> >> dan > >YOU DON'T LIKE 'HEART AND SOUL'!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:05:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] recent re-discoverieshello mark-k.coyne connection ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 03:56:46 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [idealcopy] Hello >From: Keith Knight >> I've been lurking here for a few weeks so I guess it's time to say hello. >> I'm a UK res (Luton). /////well i'm from dunstable (but escaped) so hi to good ol'bedfordshire. you a lutonian through and through or did you actually choose to go & live there? have to ask these things....p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #114 *******************************