From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #106 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 11 2002 Volume 05 : Number 106 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums ["Eric Klaver" ] Re: [idealcopy] the "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" ["Stephen Jackson" ] [idealcopy] "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" ["Cambra, Robert" ] [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums/Whoops(stoned agin) [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] Re: Wire Top Ten [Santa Cruzer ] [idealcopy] life in the manscape... [Santa Cruzer ] Re: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums/Whoops(stoned agin) [voyteck@webtv.net] [idealcopy] re: the pink flag in a jar [Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums - --enter Keith remarking: > one thing that has surprised me so far is that several readers have not > included 'pink flag' in their top ten. - --Paul enters responding: It seems to make a difference as to what era of Wire you first heard. I myself prefer the 80's output - the first Wire song I ever heard was Ahead. The 70's trilogy doesn't spin my head as much as the 80's output. For other list members, it's the exact opposite. - --Eric from Toronto enters stage left and relates a tale: I think I have written before on the list about my first encounters with Wire. It was IC and it came at a point in my life where I had just finished high school and had entered the work-a-day "real world." I couldn't afford University like some of my high school chums, and being left behind was difficult. This world came down on me like a tone of bricks and music (very much including Wire) was the bright spot. A few years later I was able to go to university in Toronto, away from my working class existence, and met up with a guy in my cohort who introduced me to 154 (he was in a band that covered The 15th). Needless to say I was blown away. The point of this story (yes there is one) is that two different periods of Wire showed up at two very different, key times in my life, and I appreciate them both equally. If forced to rank albums, it would be like this: 1. Ideal Copy 2. 154 3. Pink Flag 4. The First Letter 5. Bell is a Cup 6. Chairs Missing 7. IBTABA 8. A-Z 9. Drill 10. It Seems - --Paul says chirpily: But, we all agree that Wire is pretty amazing - regardless of what era. (^_^) - --Eric from Toronto turns to Paul and concurs. - --Chorus: "Hear, Hear" - --All exit.-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:40:54 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Top Ten Rick wrote: << Also, I've never heard #2 or #4 and never heard of #10! Is that a bootleg or some obscure release? > 2. This Way/Shiv. Man (Full Version)>>>>>> This Way and The Shivering Man are both solo albums by Bruce Gilbert..when Mute records issued the cd it was an incomplete combination of the two albums on one cd...the only way you can hear the full versions with all the tracks is to buy the vinyl copies of the lps OR get the Japanese 3 cd set called INSIDING..... > 4. Ab Ovo>>>>> Ab Ovo is another solo album by Bruce Gilbert..there was also a remix picture disc by the same name... > 10.Manchester/London>>>>>> guitar manipulations by Gilbertpossstenger...which is Bruce Gilbert with Robert Poss and Susan Stenger of Band of Susans...two long tracks.. >> Hope that helps Rick!....take care, Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:50:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fw: OIL BIZ In a message dated 4/10/02 12:29:56 AM Central Daylight Time, r_j_h@yahoo.com writes: << I would finish by saying that a great step toward stopping us paying for terrrorist actions is for each of us (in the US, that is) to strive to get our car driving down to (50-100) miles/week. Sorry for the mini tirade.... RJH >> i agree Rick! as a matter of fact, i sold my car 3 years ago...i have always prided myself on being fit and then i started gaining some weight...well finally i started riding a mountain bike to get in shape...pretty soon i was riding it everywhere! the park, the grocery store, to pay my bills, etc. Then i got the idea of riding it to work (7 miles)...then i started reading about things (like you mentioned in your post) so i came to the conclusion; get rid of the car and all the headaches that came with it...paying insurance..paying the occasional ticket...paying for gas..paying for repairs etc....Also, St. Louis has made great strides in public transportation in the last few years so i can ride the light rail system or bus to just about everywhere that i need to go; to the airport, to the pubs, to the clubs, to sporting events, to concert venues, to shopping areas, to crocery stores blah blah blah....Besides doing my own liitle part for the enviornment, i have gotten into great shape again (lost 35 pounds and i am back to 170 pounds), and i am far less stressed out....driving is aggravating!....Ok, i'm finished sounding like an infomercial...sorry! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:51:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wir/erasure In a message dated 4/10/02 12:43:24 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: << oops. forgot about 'sexy & rich' - i love that. (i'm also quite partial to that erasure b-side wir did even though i - understandably i think - are somewhat less than keen on erasure. what's the lists feeling on that particular track?) keith >> I love Wire and i love Vince Clarke and all his vintage keyboard collection so it's a win-win situation for me! Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:33:22 +0100 From: "Fergus Kelly" Subject: [idealcopy] Top10 Wire and related Top 10 Wire and related: 1 154 2 Chairs Missing 3 MZUI 4 3R4 5 Dome 1 6 Dome 2 7 Dome 3 8 This way 9 A - Z / Not To 10 Catch Supposes Fergus _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:41:39 +0100 From: "Stephen Jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" >Did anyone actually buy this? a very odd item indeed... Yep. I did. And very nice it is too! Steve. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They use the head and not the fist. - -----Original Message----- From: Rain19c@aol.com To: idealcopy@smoe.org Date: 10 April 2002 07:59 Subject: [idealcopy] the "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" >~michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:44:57 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wire Top Ten >From: Santa Cruzer >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Top Ten > >I'd have to say this is easily the most interesting >list to come up yet! Lot's of Dome and NO 80's Wire! Well, thanks, but not intentionally interesting on my part ... beyond these being the albums I find most interesting. :) > >Also, I've never heard #2 or #4 Instrumental (mostly) works by Bruce ... most either adore these albums or find them impossible to sit through. and never heard of >#10! Is that a bootleg or some obscure release? No, it's from WMO--Kevin may still have copies. It's an album Bruce did with Poss and Stenger of Band of Susans ... two long insrumentals. (One was recorded in Manchester, the other a remix version done in London. Hence the title.) It's less avant than many Gilbert solo things, but is still likely to appeal most to those who like his other solo work. Michael Flaherty > > >- --- Michael Flaherty wrote: >> 1. 154 >> 2. This Way/Shiv. Man (Full Version) >> 3. Chairs Missing >> 4. Ab Ovo >> 5. Dome 3 >> 6. Dome 1 >> 7. Dome 4 >> 8. Dome 2 >> 9. Pink Flag >> 10.Manchester/London ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:47:51 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" I'll admit it, yes--eventually--I DID! And I'm glad I did. Certainly a silly thing and a silly way to spend 12 pounds; but I love looking at this artifact on my bookshelf sitting next to the Robert Fripp postcard signed by his sister to me, the They Might Be Giants shot glass set, the original Oblique Strategies and an old railroad spike from my oldest friend's yard. Very Duchamp--or theme park?). Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Top Ten Here's my list, subject to frequent fluctuations... 1) Chairs Missing> Finally someone has filled their #1 spot as I would. But how could I choose #s 2 - 10? An interesting list from Andrew. "Chairs Missing" is Wire's strangest, most surreal album and that's why it's my all-time fave. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:06:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fw: OIL BIZ I wish I could do the same,but I run a business(I clean houses)and that alone clocks 150+miles a week---Ari RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/10/02 12:29:56 AM Central > Daylight Time, r_j_h@yahoo.com > writes: > > << I would finish by saying that a great step toward > stopping us paying for terrrorist actions is for > each > of us (in the US, that is) to strive to get our car > driving down to (50-100) miles/week. > > Sorry for the mini tirade.... > > RJH >> > > i agree Rick! as a matter of fact, i sold my car 3 > years ago...i have always > prided myself on being fit and then i started > gaining some weight...well > finally i started riding a mountain bike to get in > shape...pretty soon i was > riding it everywhere! the park, the grocery store, > to pay my bills, etc. Then > i got the idea of riding it to work (7 miles)...then > i started reading about > things (like you mentioned in your post) so i came > to the conclusion; get rid > of the car and all the headaches that came with > it...paying insurance..paying > the occasional ticket...paying for gas..paying for > repairs etc....Also, St. > Louis has made great strides in public > transportation in the last few years > so i can ride the light rail system or bus to just > about everywhere that i > need to go; to the airport, to the pubs, to the > clubs, to sporting events, to > concert venues, to shopping areas, to crocery stores > blah blah > blah....Besides doing my own liitle part for the > enviornment, i have gotten > into great shape again (lost 35 pounds and i am back > to 170 pounds), and i am > far less stressed out....driving is > aggravating!....Ok, i'm finished sounding > like an infomercial...sorry! > > Robert ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:48:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums 1) Chairs Missing> > > Finally someone has filled their #1 spot as I would. But how could I choose > #s 2 - 10? An interesting list from Andrew. "Chairs Missing" is Wire's > strangest, most surreal album and that's why it's my all-time fave. > Robert neil, bart and i did too! (one of the greatest albums of all time as far as i'm concerned...) keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:02:27 +0100 From: "Antony Jordan" Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums No one likes It Seems then? My personal no.1. Tony > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keith Astbury" > To: "Cambra, Robert" ; > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:48 PM > Subject: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums > > > > 1) Chairs Missing> > > > > > > Finally someone has filled their #1 spot as I would. But how could I > > choose > > > #s 2 - 10? An interesting list from Andrew. "Chairs Missing" is Wire's > > > strangest, most surreal album and that's why it's my all-time fave. > > > Robert > > > > neil, bart and i did too! > > (one of the greatest albums of all time as far as i'm concerned...) > > keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:03:50 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Car Crash Set >After listening to Read & Burn's "In the art of stopping / Comet" at >http://www.posteverything.com flashbacks of the days of radar love >affair with pedal to the metal music, such as Ministry's Jesus built my >hot rod & the Rivington's Bird is the word oddly come to mind. That's really interesting! My first thought about "Art of Stopping" was "Add some more aggression to it, and it will sound like Butthole Surfers" (BH Surfer Gibby Heynes sings on "Jesus built my hotrod") Syarzhuk _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:18:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] this months 'uncut' free cd with track off boards of canada new lp (been looking forward to hearing them since their mentions here), dexys, ludus, beefheart and an old josef k track (chance meeting) which sounds like it was the inspiration for mid-80's band the june brides that were briefly flavour of the month. there's also a very good review of the new bryan ferry LP c/o chris roberts and a four out five stars review of the ACR LP (by david stubbs) which tim might want to know contained the following splendid line... 'with their austere crew-cuts and khaki chic, factory's acr came on like pale young mancunian boys on a solemn safari to the heart of funk's darkness, like fugitives from 'it ain't half hot mum' gone strangely native'. it also said...'songs like 'touch' indicate here was a band turning more towards level 42 than 23 skidoo', which seemed to echo a few readers thoughts if i remember correctly. keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:14:57 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: speaking collector's items... >It is Tonal Evidence. Only on the U.S. version - there's a different >Wire track on the U.K. edition. [...] >Notes: This song is a different mix than "In Every City?" from The Drill. Is it available anywhere? Or can happy listmembers-tonal-evidence-owners post an mp3 version somewhere? Syarzhuk _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:22:47 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums 1. Pink Flag 2. The First Letter 3. The Drill 4. 8 time 5. A-Z 6. Insiding 7. Not to 8. Document & Eyewitness 9. He Said Hail 10. Chairs Missing _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:22:22 +0100 From: "Antony Jordan" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums 1. It Seems 2. The Ideal Copy 3. 154 4. A-Z 5. A Bell Is A Cup 6. Commercial Suicide 7. Hail 8. Manscape = 9. Chairs Missing / Not To / IBTABA Blimey, that was hard and it'll probably change tomorrow. Tony - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Astbury" To: "Antony Jordan" Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums > send your list then please > keith > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Antony Jordan > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 11:02 PM > Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums > > > > No one likes It Seems then? My personal no.1. > > > > Tony > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Keith Astbury" > > > To: "Cambra, Robert" ; > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 10:48 PM > > > Subject: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 wire albums > > > > > > > > > > 1) Chairs Missing> > > > > > > > > > > Finally someone has filled their #1 spot as I would. But how could I > > > > choose > > > > > #s 2 - 10? An interesting list from Andrew. "Chairs Missing" is > Wire's > > > > > strangest, most surreal album and that's why it's my all-time fave. > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > neil, bart and i did too! > > > > (one of the greatest albums of all time as far as i'm concerned...) > > > > keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:45:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the "Pink-Flag-in-a-Jar" << Did anyone actually buy this? a very odd item indeed... >> But of course.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:11:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums I think you have to be British to FULLT appraciats Manscape.(?)Ari - --- Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/02 11:43:02 PM, > RLynn9@aol.com writes: > > >In a message dated 4/8/02 10:32:25 PM Central > Daylight Time, mango@mts.net > >writes: > > > >> Thanks to Neil and anyone else for posting a top > 10 devoid of Manscape. > >> > >> > >> > >WHAT???? that's nuts..Manscape is a great > album...Small Black Reptile !...the > >bonus tracks on the ep are great too.... > > since my top 10 didn't include manscape, i'd just > like to state now that i > don't think it's a bad album at all, it just didn't > make my top 10. as a > matter of fact, morning bell ( a song disliked by > more than a few listers > here) is a sorta fave of mine. back when i was > listening to manscape a lot > ('98 maybe), that song was the inspiration for some > of my own writing. > > -paul c.d. ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:15:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums/Whoops(stoned agin) That shoulda read-I think you have to be British to FULLY appreciate Manscape.(?)Ari--- Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/8/02 11:43:02 PM, > RLynn9@aol.com writes: > > >In a message dated 4/8/02 10:32:25 PM Central > Daylight Time, mango@mts.net > >writes: > > > >> Thanks to Neil and anyone else for posting a top > 10 devoid of Manscape. > >> > >> > >> > >WHAT???? that's nuts..Manscape is a great > album...Small Black Reptile !...the > >bonus tracks on the ep are great too.... > > since my top 10 didn't include manscape, i'd just > like to state now that i > don't think it's a bad album at all, it just didn't > make my top 10. as a > matter of fact, morning bell ( a song disliked by > more than a few listers > here) is a sorta fave of mine. back when i was > listening to manscape a lot > ('98 maybe), that song was the inspiration for some > of my own writing. > > -paul c.d. ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 02:13:41 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] OT: 24 Hour Shaun Ryder Ian B wrote: >By the way did anybody see that 24HPP documentary? Is Shaun Ryder actually >seriously ill or is he just reaping what he sowed? His head was the size of >a medicine ball on steroids. He looked like one of the Sontarans off of Doctor Who! Remember them? Just got back from seeing the film. Its pretty good. Must have just about every Manchester musician of the era in a cameo role (Clint Boon as a Train Guard, Vinni Reilly as a removal man, Mark E Smith playing himself 20 years ago...). Its a confusing, jumbled film but it is also very funny and I think it does the subject matter justice. I understand the original intention was to make a documentary, and it turned into a fiction. It shows! Its a f**king mess, but it looks and sounds cool and you aren't sure which bits are real and which bits are myth....which is very Factory isn't it? As you might have guessed Its 'This Is Spinal Tap' meets 'The Great Rock & Roll Swindle' but with better tunes. Wilson as Ian Faith and Malcolm Mclaren. Just what he always wanted. There are several characters in the film who could be the subject of a whole film themselves. A friend who came with us who didn't know much about the Factory scene was fascinated by the portrayal of Martin Hannett and felt there should have been much more exploration of his character in the film. They could have made Ian's death much much sadder and darker, and they could have made Happy Mondays much more weird and freaky. But it was worth it for us to have a film on general release in the UK, featuring the biggest name in British Comedy (and most of his contemporaries...Rob Brydon, John Thompson. Peter Kay etc.) which will therefore pull a reasonable box office and get shown on Channel 4 every few years which will introduce future generations to Joy Division, Martin Hannett, Peter Saville, Rob Gretton, Vini Reilly ('God' tells Tony Wilson to release a 'Best Of' the Durutti Column at the end of the film!), ACR, Happy Mondays, Mike Pickering, Howard Devoto and er....Karl Denver. I still don't get the 'Town Cryer' bit...anyone else?! ________________________________________ Two Fat Persons....Click Click Click http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wire Top Ten > >I'd have to say this is easily the most interesting > >list to come up yet! Lot's of Dome and NO 80's > Wire! > > Well, thanks, but not intentionally interesting on > my part ... beyond these > being the albums I find most interesting. :) Maybe atypical is a better word. As has been mentioned on the list, ICers seem to fall between 70's and 80's Wire. Yours seemed like the first list that had a majority of solo work. Kind of refreshing actually! ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:26:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Santa Cruzer Subject: [idealcopy] life in the manscape... - --- Ari Britt wrote: > That shoulda read-I think you have to be British to > FULLY appreciate Manscape I don't feel British.... For a bit of background, just as I was really getting into Wire around '154' and 'Chairs Missing', 'Documents and Eyewitnesses' made me toss all of my Wire albums. I didn't actually listen to them again until picking up Manscape about 10 years later! Pity, I ended up missing out on the 80's version, which is currently my favorite "era" of Wire. As a result, I have a soft spot for 'Manscape'. PS - Just ordered "Read and Burn" and "Swim Team #2" last night! Has anyone on the list received it yet?? ===== Rick Hindman, 3R Productions PO Box 7770 Santa Cruz, CA 95062 t: (831) 425-7335 f: (831) 425-7356 http://3rproductions.com Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:15:48 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 10 wire albums/Whoops(stoned agin) (stoned agin)? You must have missed Ozzy's lecture about this on the last "The Osbournes" episode! It's all in the dopamine, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:12:54 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] re: the pink flag in a jar Obviously the idea is... you take your flag-in-a-jar to the pub and put it on the table next to your pint and your fags and that's how listers recognise each other... later A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:30:20 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] re:top ten wire albums Ari wrote..>>>I think you have to be British to FULLT appraciats Manscape.(?) Good point...although maybe 'european' rather than British... Manscape always struck me as a bulletin from the heart of europe as the Berlin wall came down... 'Free speech & more tv...' later A (still thinking about my top 10) ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #106 *******************************