From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #69 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, March 8 2002 Volume 05 : Number 069 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs [Woerner Frank ] Re: [idealcopy] GBV/lyrics/BIG emo's ["Keith Astbury" Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs - -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: RLynn9@aol.com [mailto:RLynn9@aol.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2002 22:24 An: jh3@winco.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs In a message dated 2/27/02 1:35:21 PM Central Standard Time, jh3@winco.net writes: << David Hasselhoff >> >as long as Germany exists...David Hasselhoff will have a job, be famous, >loved, and rich....a strange world we live in... Hey, come on, I have feelings, too, and that was very harsh ... At least he's a persona non grata in Bavaria. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:17:30 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs - -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Steve Loubert [mailto:sloubert@mediaone.net] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Februar 2002 05:19 An: Ideal Copy Betreff: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs >Which brings me to the question: What one CD should one be most embarrassed >to admit to owning on this list? Is there anything that is so universally >reviled as to subject its owner to ridicule from everyone on the list? Or >is there at least one person who likes everything? >From discussions here in the past, it looks like there is no artist, save >Wire, that is liked by everyone, and it would be difficult to find even a >Wire song that every single member thought was great. I'm a little late with my reply ... I bought a best of carpenters cd some years ago and still like it ... shame on me. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:20:52 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs In a message dated 3/7/02 9:17:57 AM Central Standard Time, Frank.Woerner@nbg.sbs.de writes: << << David Hasselhoff >> >as long as Germany exists...David Hasselhoff will have a job, be famous, >loved, and rich....a strange world we live in... Hey, come on, I have feelings, too, and that was very harsh ... At least he's a persona non grata in Bavaria. FrankfromBavaria >> awww c'mon Frank, i was only kiddin' ! Hell, i am so embarrassed of the people that we make "stars" over here in the USA that all i can do is laugh... Cheers to all my friends around the globe, Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:08 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs In a message dated 3/7/02 9:18:25 AM Central Standard Time, Frank.Woerner@nbg.sbs.de writes: << I'm a little late with my reply ... I bought a best of carpenters cd some years ago and still like it ... shame on me. FrankfromBavaria >> I am not ashamed of ANYTHING in my record collection...many of my buddies seem to think i should be embarassed of Sylvester, Erasure, Yaz, Skinny Puppy, Donna Summer, Black Sabbath,Gary Numan, mid-seventies Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis, ALL my break dancing and early hip-hop records, all my acid house or old dance 12"s, all my disco records, all my "new wave" records, Pink Dots, Coil, etc. etc.....i always get: "You CAN'T possibly like any of this crap.." ...oh well, they are missing out while worshipping at the alter of Creed and U2 (whom i like the first 4 albums by especially The Unforgettable Fire).... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:07:23 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] exciting tracks > > i really do think that the (hives) single > > genuinely creates the spirit of '77, something which lots of people try but > > invariably fail. ash spring to mind here. just can't see what the fuss is > > about myself. people who know me and my tastes expect me to like them, cos > > they know i'm sucker for a good tune and ash were supposedly the buzzcocks > > of the 90's (snip) > > /////good grief , can i dare to suggest that the slight difference between those acts is that ash are maybe the most desperately appalling act of recent times guided by voices fans might be interested to hear that the female member of ash chose GBV as the best gig she's been to. don't know enough about GBV to comment though i suspect it's a bit like ginger spice praising dome... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:35:49 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > If Wire had 'played the game' and not taken extended leave in 1980, carried > on releasing consistently good records, had some promotional money spent on > them and played fan-pleasing live shows they could easily have been as big > as Radiohead, maybe U2. i don't think wire could ever have been as big as radiohead. admittedly they could/should have been *much* bigger than they were, but i never saw them a potential mega band. remember this was pre-U2 stadium rock, let alone radiohead, so it would have been a case of expecting them to be the next led zep or something. i don't hold with the theory that joy division would have been massive if curtis had lived either. the bunnymen possibly had U2 like fame within their grasp, but ultimately had some 'flaw' in their making that prevented them playing the game for long enough. joy division though weren't populist or 'earnest' enough. could you really imagine curtis waving a big white flag around? similarly julians weirdness/daftness held the teardrops back when it was there - after 'reward' - for the taking. wire, should have had decent size hits with the likes of 'outdoor miner' and 'map ref', but with the best will in the world, i couldn't imagine a follow up to '154' achieving 'tubalar bells' like sales unless they had agreed to concentrate purely on their commercial three minute pop song side. and finally, like other should-have-beens the sound, wire would surely always have suffered from their lack of a sex god-like front man. >Would they be as interesting a band? no i don't think they would! keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:00:02 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] asleep at the gig! > no offense rob...i saw rush twice (on purpose)...first concert i fell asleep i've been bored at a few gigs over the years (watching an entire set by the pale saints was particularly arduous but being the survivor i am, i saw it thru!), but the only act i've ever fallen asleep to was the blue orchid (supporting the bunnymen at liverpool in 1981). now i can imagine that there'll be a few I.C.ers who are rather fond of them so i'd better add that i was completely knackered. (i didn't like them much to be honest, though my mate did). the nearest otherwise was at the RFH gig 2000. my two mates had joined the large throng of smokers outside before wire came on and i was left staring at that white bloody dot on the screen all on my own. i was fighting to keep myself awake, though i suspect that a level of hipgnosis was the desired effect - and anyone who was there will probably know exactly what i mean... keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:42:47 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] positive noise > dan, whose most recent listening consists of positive noise's heart of > darkness lp on the car's tape deck (can't remember if the one-sided love > like property [or something like that] 7" came as a bonus with it or the > next lp, not that i've played it yet). not bad, & i'm surprised that they > haven't warranted at least a mention in a mick mercer goth retrospective > ... the subsequent change of heart is on the flip, but i haven't listened to > it yet -- the snatches i heard while taping 'em both over the weekend make > me think i won't be bowled over, though. i haven't played the 'heart of darkness' lp all the way through in a long time, though i listened to a couple of tracks last year. i still like the opening 'darkness visible' tribal beat. the best positive noise track IMO though is the 'charm' 12" - one of the best singles of it's time. unfortunately i was reading 1984 at the time and must have been playing 'charm' whilst reading the room 101 bit cos every time i played 'charm' for ages after it took on a rather evil feel! the russ middleton story then got sort of vague but interesting. he slagged off the rest of the group, saying they were all tossers (presumably inc. his brother who was also a member) and formed leisure process - who as howard said released the great 'love cascade' (and the lesser 'cash flow') before basically disappearing. the last thing i heard - and this was years ago - was someone in one of the music papers saying they were sitting on a bench in paris next to a down and out who turned out to be russ middleton. how true this is - or where he is now - i don't know. keith np 'whore' cd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:29:41 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] asleep at the gig! can't speak for the blue orchids live, but while most of their oeuvre that i've heard made no impression on me whatsoever, a track called "the flood" has made its way onto probably half the mix-tapes i've done the last half-decade or so. i wonder how the track-listing on the newly released retrospective cd compares to the 2 lp's (money mountain & another one on which the flood is the first track ... both of those may themselves be retrospectives, come to think of it) i've got ... dan >i've been bored at a few gigs over the years (watching an entire set by the >pale saints was particularly arduous but being the survivor i am, i saw it >thru!), but the only act i've ever fallen asleep to was the blue orchid >(supporting the bunnymen at liverpool in 1981). now i can imagine that >there'll be a few I.C.ers who are rather fond of them so i'd better add that >i was completely knackered. (i didn't like them much to be honest, though my >mate did). >the nearest otherwise was at the RFH gig 2000. my two mates had joined the >large throng of smokers outside before wire came on and i was left staring >at that white bloody dot on the screen all on my own. i was fighting to keep >myself awake, though i suspect that a level of hipgnosis was the desired >effect - and anyone who was there will probably know exactly what i mean... > >keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:37:29 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs >In a message dated 3/7/02 9:18:25 AM Central Standard Time, >Frank.Woerner@nbg.sbs.de writes: > ><< I'm a little late with my reply ... > I bought a best of carpenters cd some years ago > and still like it ... shame on me. > > FrankfromBavaria >> > >I am not ashamed of ANYTHING in my record collection...many of my buddies >seem to think i should be embarassed of Sylvester, Erasure, Yaz, Skinny >Puppy, Donna Summer, Black Sabbath,Gary Numan, mid-seventies Herbie Hancock >and Miles Davis, ALL my break dancing and early hip-hop records, all my acid >house or old dance 12"s, all my disco records, all my "new wave" records, >Pink Dots, Coil, hmmm ... except for acid house, herbie hancock (though i do own rockit), miles davis & donna summer (bar a 7" of love is in control bought at a pawnshop in '84 along with the time's 777-9311, i think) all of the above form fairly considerable repositories on my own shelves (or rather floors ... it'll be ages till these things get shelved, it looks like). etc. etc.....i always get: "You CAN'T possibly like any of >this crap.." ...oh well, they are missing out while worshipping at the alter >of Creed and U2 (whom i like the first 4 albums by especially The >Unforgettable Fire).... i'll take the latter's achtung baby & zooropa (numb is the closest thing to a 3rd letter track i'm ever likely to see a video for) myself. dan, distraught to have found out last week that my 3rd letter sleeve has apparently been missing from its sleeve since before the move (at the same time, there's that white zombie disc that's missing its sleeve ... hmmm) >Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:09:56 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Re: Embarrassing CDs > I'm a little late with my reply ... > I bought a best of carpenters cd some years ago > and still like it ... shame on me. > > FrankfromBavaria I dunno, ever since they were covered by the likes of Sonic Youth I suppose they gained salonfdhigkeit... I like some of the Carpenters songs too. A bit late myself... I suppose mine would be a Beatles/Tony Sheridan album. Not only an embarrasment, but it bores the heck out of me! Buy, anyone? ;-) Cheers, Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 07:57:46 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] GBV/lyrics/BIG emo's I saw GBV once and loved it sooo much! Shame they don't do Groningen [nor Europe] more frequently. I guess sometimes crap products have to be sold by putting it into a cool context. But... perhaps the Ash-girl just meant it. Good for her! BTW, I always found GBV's Bob Pollards lyrics-writing a bit similar to Wire's... The lacking of real narrative... the more associative and metaphorical approach. It just leaves something to the imagination. Thom York learned this too after OK Computer - wich to me had too many obvious and almost silly emotional outbursts. It's something that annoyed me a bit about Lewis' Touching Display too [which I think are really great musically]. BIG emotions in music [and lyrics]... some people get away with it while others just turn your stomach! Examples anyone? Cheers, Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl > guided by voices fans might be interested to hear that the female member of > ash chose GBV as the best gig she's been to. don't know enough about GBV to > comment though i suspect it's a bit like ginger spice praising dome... > Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:51:19 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: [idealcopy] NoTwist Wednesday I saw germans the Notwist at the Vera club in Groningen. Their Neon Golden does very well here in the indiecharts and I must say that I haven't enjoyed a german band more since Blumfeld. I had not hear any of their stuff before, but I quite enjoyed the set. They were compared with dEUS, but they aren't as adventurous as those belgians... a bit too layed back for that, but if one has to compare, surely Grandaddy would come to my mind. Wonderfull twinkling guitars, computerbleebs and dreamy singing [which could use a bit more variation]. Liked it!!! Cheers... Bart [woken up from his lurking by Keith - thnx Keith] http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:18:06 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] GBV/lyrics/BIG emo's bart said > BIG emotions in music [and lyrics]... some people get away with it while > others just turn your stomach! Examples anyone? i'm more of a music man than a lyrics one, and unless they're *really* awful i don't mind. incidently i saw some lyrics printed from the new john cougar mellancamp LP that were excrucuating. wish i'd shared them with everybody now... i don't think this is quite what bart had in mind, but my least fave lyric on a record i like has to be... 'if you judge the book by the cover then you judge the look by the lover' ('the look of love' - abc) I HATE IT! sad man that i am, i have spent hours of my life trying to make sense of something that was obviously just thrown together to rhyme cleverly. of course it should have been... 'then you judge the lover by the look' but that doesn't quite fit does it. shame cos it's a great pop song otherwise... keith (who obviously had too much time on his hands in his youth!) you can watch rafferty turn into a serial it's just like sleeping gas it's so ethereal (teardrop explodes 1979) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #69 ******************************