From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #58 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, February 25 2002 Volume 05 : Number 058 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] O'Rourke ["ian.s. jackson" ] [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire [Neil Soiseth ] Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT-the fall/ministry ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] [idealcopy] Andy Weatherall [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] The Mob ["Scott Kellock" ] [idealcopy] dr robert ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Nina Simone [giluz ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:55:59 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] O'Rourke Robert wrote : >now there is someone that i can't understand all the fuss about! Jim >O'Rourke!...other than the improv laptop stuff he did with Fennesz (the >great Sound of FennO'Berg cd) as i'm not as inclined towards that kind of stuff anyway...i've not heard any of his laptop stuff yet, getting a burn of 'I'm Happy...' soon hopefully...so these are the views of someone who only likes O'Rourke as the new Bacharach... just one of those things, i suppose, it clicks or it don't... i had heard hardly any Gastr Del Sol or anything of his, before the release of 'Eureka', and i really wasn't sure about it for the first couple of listens. admittedly the Ivor Cutler cover version on Eureka drew me in and kept me listening. everyone that has replied, so far, has seemed to concentrate on the musical side of Jim's stuff, which is fine, but, i really like the way these biting, disturbingly dark lyrics are couched in what are, esssentially, 'easy-listening' backing tracks. >and on top of it all he seems to be a twat (see the Nov. 2001 issue >#213 of the WIRE magazine)...i just don't get it.. hahaha, er..., then count me in on the twat-count then!! i totally identified with his views on music and being a 'musician' in that piece. i'm curious...what was it that made you think he was a twat? ian.s.j. (np - The Pop Group 'Thief Of Fire') _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:51:25 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs On the subject of embarrassing CDs: I manage to have CDs by all of Simon and Garfunkel, Abba, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Chemical Brothers, the Smiths, the Pixies, Mogwai, Boards of Canada, and At the Drive-In: and I like them all. (And Wire, of course.) Should I be concerned by this? :) I refuse to be embarassed by owning any of the above (though you could persuade me to be about the Sleeper album I own...) Seriously: I seem to have cultivated a very magpie, cut-and-paste taste in music - I find it quite hard to find a genre I hate everything out of (Really extreme metal/black metal is about the only one that comes to mined...). Given Wire's tendency for assembling ideas from all over the place, I was wondering how common this kind of attitude was on the list. Andrew (np Velvet Underground - "Some Kinda Love", incidentally) - -- "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:10:56 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry > p.s. did anyone hear a rumor yesterday that alain jourgenson died? just searched the net and found nothing. saw the revolting cocks live in 91 - they didn't believe in soundchecks (probably just couldn't be arsed) so the sound for the first few no.s (the opening 'beers steers & queers' inc.) was decidedly ropey till they got the levels right. and then they were awesome! don't like ministry's version of 'lay lady lay' as much their 'lets get physical' or 'd'ya think i'm sexy' - the latter is truly hilarious. and wasn't 'jesus built my hotrod' the early 90's. that's a colossal record... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:12:49 -0800 From: "Steve" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions The more acceptable (for this list) in my own collection? Wire (all), Miles Davis (loads), Magazine (most), XTC (all), PIL, Dome, Residents and the collection of shame includes :) Simon and Garfunkel, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa (most), Billie Holiday, Nina Simone, Alanis Morissette, The Who, Prince (still one of the best live acts I've seen). Sometimes I want anger, soemtimes groove, sometimes pop, sometimes something original, sometimes something way ahead (Bitches Brew/Live Evil) and sometimes I like to relax and sometimes music is for mood. I still haven't met a woman who I think I can charm into bed while listening to Former Airline (mind you I haven't tried). Steve Today playlist: Miles Davis - Live Evil Radiohead - I Might Be Wrong Wire - Chairs Missing (now playing) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Walkingshaw Sent: 24 February 2002 05:51 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs On the subject of embarrassing CDs: I manage to have CDs by all of Simon and Garfunkel, Abba, the Beatles, the Beach Boys, the Chemical Brothers, the Smiths, the Pixies, Mogwai, Boards of Canada, and At the Drive-In: and I like them all. (And Wire, of course.) Should I be concerned by this? :) I refuse to be embarassed by owning any of the above (though you could persuade me to be about the Sleeper album I own...) Seriously: I seem to have cultivated a very magpie, cut-and-paste taste in music - I find it quite hard to find a genre I hate everything out of (Really extreme metal/black metal is about the only one that comes to mined...). Given Wire's tendency for assembling ideas from all over the place, I was wondering how common this kind of attitude was on the list. Andrew (np Velvet Underground - "Some Kinda Love", incidentally) - -- "Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy." - R.E.M., "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" ('Monster') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:24:37 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT-the fall > shiftwork & code: selfish i hadn't heard because they weren't out in the > u.s.). two of my personal faves to be honest. just been thinking about compiling a fall version of 'pin-ups' some time. their 'white lightning' and 'lost in music' are two of my fave covers... keith np spiritualised - amazing grace (well it is sunday) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:28:18 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs andrew said > Seriously: I seem to have cultivated a very magpie, cut-and-paste > taste in music - I find it quite hard to find a genre I hate > everything out of (Really extreme metal/black metal is about the only > one that comes to mined...). Given Wire's tendency for assembling ideas > from all over the place, I was wondering how common this kind of attitude > was on the list. pretty common i'd say. today i've played moloko, spiritualised, kylie, the hollies and bowie so far and it all makes sense to me... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 10:45:25 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions In a message dated 2/24/02 9:12:49 AM, steve@unit3.demon.co.uk writes: >and the collection of shame includes :) > >Simon and Garfunkel, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa (most), Billie >Holiday, Nina Simone, Alanis Morissette, The Who, Prince (still one of >the >best live acts I've seen). i would be proud to have such a shameful collection. incidentally, i have s&g on vinyl and haven't yet felt the necessity to get them on cd. i still haven't bought any radiohead albums, but i certainly will snatch one up at the right price when i see it. even though zappa has the weirdness factor, it's the "classic rock" portion of your list that has the most shame potential (imo, depending on which albums you have), and billie holliday with lester young...way to cool for most people's average music collections. keep up the shameful work ;o) - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:20:05 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: O'Rourke In a message dated 2/24/02 6:56:21 AM Central Standard Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > >and on top of it all he seems to be a twat (see the Nov. 2001 issue > >#213 of the WIRE magazine)...i just don't get it.. > > hahaha, er..., then count me in on the twat-count then!! > i totally identified with his views on music and being a 'musician' in that > > piece. > i'm curious...what was it that made you think he was a twat? > > ian.s.j. (np - The Pop Group 'Thief Of Fire') > > mainly his crass comments on Chicago in general....his above-it-all-attitude...I really hate the oh-gotta-move-to-L.A.-or-NYC-attitude......Chicago is a great place with a lot to offer musically and otherwise.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:22:25 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs In a message dated 2/24/02 7:52:05 AM Central Standard Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > On the subject of embarrassing CDs: > > I manage to have CDs by all of Simon and Garfunkel, Abba, the Beatles, > the Beach Boys, the Chemical Brothers, the Smiths, the Pixies, Mogwai, > Boards of Canada, and At the Drive-In: and I like them all. > Nothin' wrong with that at all! as a matter of fact i wouldn't mind having all those ABBA cd reissues with bonus tracks...good stuff !....AND i just bought Bridge Over Troubled Water still sealed on vinyl for 10 cents yesterday at a thrift store!... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:26:22 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry In a message dated 2/24/02 8:07:54 AM Central Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > p.s. did anyone hear a rumor yesterday that alain jourgenson died? > now THERE is a REAL bastard! i blame him for the demise of Skinny Puppy! His wretched influence turned them into a quasi-metal band just like the wretched Ministry.....and no matter what ANYONE says, I will ALWAYS love the first Ministry album "With Sympathy" and the Adrian Sherwood produced "Twitch" the most! i like half of "Land of Rape and Honey" and then they lost me.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:30:01 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions In a message dated 2/24/02 8:12:49 AM Central Standard Time, steve@unit3.demon.co.uk writes: > and the collection of shame includes :) > > Simon and Garfunkel, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa (most), Billie > Holiday, Nina Simone, Alanis Morissette, The Who, Prince (still one of the > best live acts I've seen). > WHAT????!!!!! how can you list Nina Simone or Billie Holiday or Prince (pre-Sign of the Times) as EMBARRASSING?? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???? how could anyone on this list rate Simone or Holiday as embassing and poke fun at you??? (ok prince i understand, he CAN be a bit silly)....that is astounding...Nina Simone is one of the most moving singers of ALL TIME...... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:37:14 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs In a message dated 24/02/2002 16:23:02 GMT Standard Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > On the subject of embarrassing CDs: > Hi All & Robert I've just spoken to my mate who has kindly burned 2 copies of The Dalek I Love You CD from 1983 mentioned on the list a week or so ago.I'm sending one to Robert & have another going spare.I believe Mark was interested if so can he leave his address off post. Cheers Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 16:41:27 -0800 From: "Steve" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions I'm not ashamed of any of them, especially not Nina Simone (my favourite singer). Positive/happy songs are hard to come by but tell me something more positive and uplifting than Nina Simone's "Feeling Good". For that alone, truely original. I'm sure there will be a few raised eyebrows and shakes of the head going on out there at all these confessions. Steve - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of RLynn9@aol.com Sent: 24 February 2002 08:30 To: steve@unit3.demon.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions In a message dated 2/24/02 8:12:49 AM Central Standard Time, steve@unit3.demon.co.uk writes: > and the collection of shame includes :) > > Simon and Garfunkel, Radiohead, Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa (most), Billie > Holiday, Nina Simone, Alanis Morissette, The Who, Prince (still one of the > best live acts I've seen). > WHAT????!!!!! how can you list Nina Simone or Billie Holiday or Prince (pre-Sign of the Times) as EMBARRASSING?? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???? how could anyone on this list rate Simone or Holiday as embassing and poke fun at you??? (ok prince i understand, he CAN be a bit silly)....that is astounding...Nina Simone is one of the most moving singers of ALL TIME...... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:11:55 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions Nina Simone is one of the most moving singers of ALL TIME...... > > Robert Lynn yeah but she's a lesson to everyone that there is a right time to give in. have you seen her perform in recent years - she's terrible. she was on some naff programme a couple of years ago, and my girlfriend was shushing everyone when she came on - and then it was a case of 'oh dear'! she was lifeless, tired, disinterested and uninteresting. oh yeah - and out of tune. she should have left people to their memories... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:11:36 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry blaming someone for his "influence" is a bit silly, isn't it? if skinny puppy were swayed to try to follow ministry's path (which i thought held up just fine through mind is a terrible thing ... only a couple of songs -- most notably n.w.o. -- rate on the one after that, as the album version of jesus built my hotrod pales in comparison to the original), i suspect it had something to do with an interest in making more money. & who's to blame for that? dan >In a message dated 2/24/02 8:07:54 AM Central Standard Time, >keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > >> > p.s. did anyone hear a rumor yesterday that alain jourgenson died? >> > >now THERE is a REAL bastard! i blame him for the demise of Skinny Puppy! His >wretched influence turned them into a quasi-metal band just like the wretched >Ministry.....and no matter what ANYONE says, I will ALWAYS love the first >Ministry album "With Sympathy" and the Adrian Sherwood produced "Twitch" the >most! i like half of "Land of Rape and Honey" and then they lost me.... > >Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:18:23 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry >don't like ministry's version of 'lay lady lay' as much their 'lets get >physical' or 'd'ya think i'm sexy' - the latter is truly hilarious. and >wasn't 'jesus built my hotrod' the early 90's. that's a colossal record... > >keith yep -- great song (i was almost thrilled to be watching the movie blood simple a couple of years after that & finding it supplied the "a man doesn't have to have a good car to be justified" sample), hilarious video. must've come out around mid-'90, judging from my memory of where i bought it (the french quarter tower records, i think on the same trip as billy bragg's you woke up my neighborhood ... another odd juxtaposition, that. possibly gary clail's human nature as well.) d'ya think i'm sexy was actually recorded by the cocks (who certainly did a bang-up version of public image ... i don't think i've heard their take on physical), though for all i know ministry did it live. dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:28:36 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry >>don't like ministry's version of 'lay lady lay' as much their 'lets get >>physical' or 'd'ya think i'm sexy' - the latter is truly hilarious. and >>wasn't 'jesus built my hotrod' the early 90's. that's a colossal record... >> >>keith > > >yep -- great song (i was almost thrilled to be watching the movie blood >simple *ahem* haven't been awake long enough -- make that *wise blood* dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:32:52 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT- ministry > d'ya think i'm sexy was actually recorded by the cocks (who certainly did a > bang-up version of public image ... i don't think i've heard their take on > physical), though for all i know ministry did it live. > > dan yeah sorry. 'lets get physical' was revco too (the trul fab 'beers steers & queers') but i tend to lump ministry and revolting cocks all together. and i think it was 1990 when i saw them, not 91... keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:33:47 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs - confessions In a message dated 2/24/02 12:08:22 PM Central Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Nina Simone is one of the most moving singers of ALL TIME...... > > > > Robert Lynn > > yeah but she's a lesson to everyone that there is a right time to give in. > have you seen her perform in recent years - she's terrible. she was on some > naff programme a couple of years ago, and my girlfriend was shushing > everyone when she came on - and then it was a case of 'oh dear'! > she was lifeless, tired, disinterested and uninteresting. oh yeah - and out > of tune. she should have left people to their memories... > keith > > no, i have not seen/heard her perform in many many years....i'll take your word for it though..and i wholeheartedly agree with you about people needing to know when to call it quits....i made my comments based on the assumption that we were talking of old Nina Simone records being "embarrassing"..which i did not understand... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:44:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs Been through my collection twice now,and i think my most embarassing c.d is John Trudell's AKA Grafitti Man.listened to it just once.anyone want it?Ari ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:47:49 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Embarassing CDs In a message dated 2/24/02 1:44:37 PM Central Standard Time, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: > Been through my collection twice now,and i think my > most embarassing c.d is John Trudell's AKA Grafitti > Man.listened to it just once.anyone want it?Ari > what kind of music is it? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 13:42:13 -0600 From: Neil Soiseth Subject: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire In a message dated 2/24/02 9:12:49 AM, steve@unit3.demon.co.uk writes: > and the collection of shame includes :) > Radiohead I'm rather curious about the opinion of Radiohead around here, especially given that, imo, their development has followed a rather Wire-like arc. That is, their creativity and need to explore in the first 3 albums seems to have mimicked Wire's own initial output. Pablo Honey is as far away from OK Computer as Pink Flag to 154, with each middle album very much a bridge. The 3rd album also seems to have had a rather disruptive effect on each band, leading to prolonged breaks and need for re-evaluation. Further, Kid A and Amnesiac certainly have a Domish experimentation--if not in result, at least in intent--to them. Perhaps I'm carving the pieces to fit the holes a bit much here, but I am nevertheless curious how people feel about Radiohead and any (dis)similarities to Wire. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 12:01:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire Neil wrote: I'm rather curious about the opinion of Radiohead around here, especially given that, imo, their development has followed a rather Wire-like arc. That is, their creativity and need to explore in the first 3 albums seems to have mimicked Wire's own initial output. Pablo Honey is as far away from OK Computer as Pink Flag to 154, with each middle album very much a bridge. The 3rd album also seems to have had a rather disruptive effect on each band, leading to prolonged breaks and need for re-evaluation. Further, Kid A and Amnesiac certainly have a Domish experimentation--if not in result, at least in intent--to them. Perhaps I'm carving the pieces to fit the holes a bit much here, but I am nevertheless curious how people feel about Radiohead and any (dis)similarities to Wire. Neil ................ I agree neil,ANY group that continues to 'change course' from one album to the next is o.k in my books,i look forward to Radioheads next release with as much enthusiasm as I await the next release from Wire and Shriekback.Ari ===== everything in moderation is good for you,including excess. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:17:03 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT-the fall/ministry > can't remember what the consensus was (or if there was one) on infotainment > scan. i never had that one, but i found it today for 4 bucks. so, what's the > verdict? i'm sure i'll keep it anyway, but i'm just wondering. > For $4.00? Buy it! (I guess you already did, huh?) Definitely worth $4.00. I used to rate it quite highly. Lately, I've put it down a few notches - espeically after I got a copy of Code: Selfish, which is one of my favorites. ("The Birmingham School of Business School" from Code seriously unwound my mental clock for a few days. I was walking around Seattle sneering like Mark E. Smith - how genius is that? (^_^)) Still, for me, The Infotainment Scan has a couple of classic tracks: "It's a curse" and especially "A Past Gone Mad". This is definitely from The Fall's "flirting with electronica" phase. Bush's keyboards really set the tone on a number of songs here. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:27:01 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > I am > nevertheless curious how people feel about Radiohead and any > (dis)similarities to Wire. > Wow - where were you a year ago? (^_^) This topic started a minor flame war here on the IdealCopy mailing list. Especially about Kid A and Amnesiac. Personally I like Radiohead. However, I don't think they're as innovative as Wire or that comparisons between the two bands is particularly valid. Wire is just in a league by themselves - maybe only the Fall can compare, and I'm not even sure if that's true. For me, Radiohead is a talented popular modern band who continue to advance their sound without (so far) falling victim to the traps that some big stadium bands fall into. (Like U2 for instance (^_^)). They do try to work the odd bits of electronica and Krautrock into their songs, but they also are very straightforward pop in some respects. Wire is sometimes pop (Outdoor Miner, for example), but sometimes they are completely off the hook (Crazy about Love or the entire Vien CD), which is why I'm such an ardent fan. My 2 cents, anyway. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 18:51:34 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Andy Weatherall I was wondering if anyone out there had the Limited Edition Andy Weatherall mixes of Regret by New Order? i think they were on cd and cardboard slipcase was gold...also does anyone have the remix he did by My Bloody Valentine?..I'd love to trade something for these or at least get a tape or cd-r...let me know...thanks Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:00:00 -0000 From: "Scott Kellock" Subject: [idealcopy] The Mob >The Zounds album is a classic. On the Flux thread "The 1970's Have Been Made >In Hong Kong" in their earlier incarnation as The Epileptics was another >great single. Dirt - "Object/Refuse" and The Mob - "No Doves Cry Here" are >two other greats from that time that spring to mind. > >Steve Glad you mentioned The Mob Album, Been trying to replace my vinyl copy for a cd. Does anyone want to burn me of a copy. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:58:39 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] dr robert don't suppose this means much to many IC-ers, but i went to see ex blow monkey dr robert tonight. as there were only about 20 odd people there i was glad i made the effort... i've liked the dr since the mighty sprawling bolanic-but-anything-goes debut album ('limping for a generation') and even liked the altogether smoother, 80's funk that followed. much of the 90's output has veered a bit close to singer-songwriter territory to me, but in 'halfway to heaven' and 'i guess this is goodbye', he's written at least a couple of things to equal his best 80's stuff. anyway, considering the small audience, it was a pretty good gig which - at times - 'rocked'! it also inc. a few radically reworked blow monkey hits like 'it doesn't have to be this way' and a version of 'digging your scene' which he desc. as the most laidback version ever. actually he's quite a mean guitarist, and though he might have a jonathan ross like difficulty with his 'R's (which was hi-lited when he asked a young lad in the audience what his name was and he said 'rory'!), he sure has got a golden set of tonsils. keith np brian wilson 'live at the roxy' (disc 2) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 01:26:18 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > Perhaps I'm carving the pieces to fit the holes a bit much here, but I am > nevertheless curious how people feel about Radiohead and any > (dis)similarities to Wire. > > Neil only that, as you say, they moved forwards over each album, but i think 'pink flag' - for all it's thrashiness - show a band who already know exactly who they are and i'm sure that that is true of 'pablo honey'. i thought 'creep' was U2 when i first heard it! personally i think 'ok computer' is over-rated (best album of all time or something according to Q readers!) - prefer 'the bends' myself, but like paul i admire the way they released what they wanted to release without thinking market forces. and though i don't particularly like the clever-cleverness of 'pyramid song' (all those weird time changes are a bit too Yes for my liking), i thought that some of the stuff they performed live on that 'later' special was pretty moving. keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:14:14 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 02:27:01PM -0800, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > Personally I like Radiohead. > However, I don't think they're as innovative as Wire or that comparisons > between the two bands is particularly valid. Wire is just in a league by > themselves - maybe only the Fall can compare, and I'm not even sure if > that's true. Scaling innovation is of course entirely a matter of opinion, which might well be what makes it fun! I think the Radiohead/Wire comparison is vaguely reasonable: if anything, Radiohead are a descendent of Wire, because they're IMO more post-punk than anything else. (Just see Jonny Greenwood raving about Magazine...) In terms of influence: Wire's vastly most influential work, looking at it at least reasonably objectively in terms of the mainstream of pop/rock was the first three albums, and the initial 77-80 burst of post-punk, at least as far as the mainstream goes. It's not hard to draw a chain of influences here, for example: Wire -> REM (directly: just witness the cover of "Strange" on Document, actually one of the things which turned me on to Wire. I have every REM studio album... "Out of Time" was one of the first few records I ever bought. I was, I think, 11 at the time.) REM -> Radiohead is very, very well documented, of course, down to the "Monster" world tour; and of course there's the effect of a lot of Wire's contemporaries, from Elvis Costello (Thom Yorke admits to being influenced by him, in particular lyrically) through Joy Division. The key thing, I think, is both bands have (thus far) absorbed their influences from the musical environment, particularly the avant-garde, contemporary to their time. It's going to be very, very hard to assess how influential Radiohead are for 15 to 20 years; it's inarguable now how influential "Pink Flag", "Chairs Missing" and "154" were, but how obvious was it at the time? I'm sure there's a cliche about the VUs waiting to be mined here. > For me, Radiohead is a talented popular modern band who continue to advance > their sound without (so far) falling victim to the traps that some big > stadium bands fall into. (Like U2 for instance (^_^)). They do try to > work the odd bits of electronica As far as influences go: "Planet Telex" (Bends) and "Airbag" (OKC) definitely pointed in that direction, and off the last two albums, "Idioteque", "Like Spinning Plates", "Everything in Its Right Place" are pretty much *entirely* electronic songs; the first and third of these are stunning live, and the second is played as a piano ballad... :) For that matter, "Talk Show Host" (*the* key Radiohead non-album song: a B-side to Street Spirit) is trip-hop: "My Iron Lung" is near-metal: "Karma Police" would fit on the Beatles' "White Album". Like Wire, they're musical magpies with a taste for the obscure, and an unavoidable urge (at points) to write pretty melodies. Interesting that you mention U2: I'll defend "Zooropa" as an album quite happily... and, indeed, all of their output before that point with the exception of "Rattle and Hum". Deep, no, not especially, and often over-bombastic and over-emotive: but fun and interesting, and that's often enough for me. :) > and Krautrock into their songs, They covered "The Thief" (Can) on their Kid A tour. MP3s aren't hard to get hold of off the Radiohead fansites. "Dollars and Cents" was an explicit attempt to work in the Can modus: it was edited down from a much longer jam. This neatly segues into the other important aspect of Radiohead's music: a *lot* of it is not very veiled social and political protest, from the reference to the CIA in the third verse of "The Bends" to the rather more blatant "Electioneering" and "You and Whose Army?"; for all their famed miserableness, there's a fair counterbalancing dose of rage and scorn in there too, particularly compared to their obvious contemporaries. > but they > also are very straightforward pop in some respects. I'm now trying to think of a truly great band (and for my money, "The Bends" and "OK Computer" *will* prove to be classic albums, with there being a third one composable from Kid A/Amnesiac, which are both very good but could have done with more vicious editing - but at their best, say "Everything....", "Idioteque", "Pyramid Song" are as good songs as anything they've ever recorded, IMO at least; fwiw, I'd go for a track listing of something like: "Everything...", "I Might Be Wrong", "The National Anthem", "You and Whose Army?", "Morning Bell", "Idioteque", "Life in a Glasshouse", "Like Spinning Plates", "Packt Like Sardines...", "Optimistic", and "How to Disappear Completely", in no particular order: if I'm allowed to invoke 'I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings', add True Love Waits: and the bootlegs of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" are better than the record :( ) > Wire is sometimes pop > (Outdoor Miner, for example), but sometimes they are completely off the > hook (Crazy about Love or the entire Vien CD), which is why I'm such an > ardent fan. Radiohead have done very little which is entirely off the wall, but "Fitter Happier" is a fair way there, particularly on an album which sells that many copies; and some of the B-sides ("Meeting in the Aisle", for example) are a bit more extreme. > My 2 cents, anyway. (^_^) My two pence. Yes, I am a Radiohead obsessive; they and REM were the first two bands I ever got *seriously* into... Andrew - -- "Eternal life is now on my trail, Got my red glitter coffin, man, just need one last nail..." - Jeff Buckley, "Eternal Life" ('Grace') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 02:19:44 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > I'm now trying to think of a truly great band (and for my money, "The > Bends" and "OK Computer" *will* prove to be classic albums, with there > being a third one composable from Kid A/Amnesiac, which are both very > good but could have done with more vicious editing - but at their best, > say "Everything....", "Idioteque", "Pyramid Song" are as good songs as > anything they've ever recorded, IMO at least; > > fwiw, I'd go for a track listing of something like: "Everything...", "I > Might Be Wrong", "The National Anthem", "You and Whose Army?", "Morning > Bell", "Idioteque", "Life in a Glasshouse", "Like Spinning Plates", > "Packt Like Sardines...", "Optimistic", and "How to Disappear > Completely", in no particular order: if I'm allowed to invoke 'I Might > Be Wrong: Live Recordings', add True Love Waits: and the bootlegs of > "Motion Picture Soundtrack" are better than the record :( ) ... to complete my own sentence ... ... who didn't have at least some pop instinct in there somewhere. The communicative power of a good tune is often understated. :) Andrew - -- "It's too close to home and too near the bone; too close to home and too near the bone, more than you'll ever know..." - The Smiths, "That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore" ('Meat is Murder') adw27@cam.ac.uk (academic) | http://www.lexical.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 23:24:28 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Radiohead vs Wire > fwiw, I'd go for a track listing of something like: "Everything...", "I > Might Be Wrong", "The National Anthem", "You and Whose Army?", "Morning > Bell", "Idioteque", "Life in a Glasshouse", "Like Spinning Plates", > "Packt Like Sardines...", "Optimistic", and "How to Disappear > Completely", in no particular order: if I'm allowed to invoke 'I Might > Be Wrong: Live Recordings', add True Love Waits: and the bootlegs of > "Motion Picture Soundtrack" are better than the record :( ) > This is actually an exercise I've been working on for a while. Editing Kid A/Amnesiac into a single CD. Currently, I'm pretty happy with the following running order (but you have to use an 80 minute CD...) Everything in its right place Pyramid Song Optimistic In Limbo You and whose army I might be wrong Dollars & Cents Idioteque Morning bell Packt like sardines in a crush tin box The National Anthem How to disappear completely Morning bell - amnesiac Knives out Hunting bears Like Spinning plates Motion picture soundtrack I call it "A Kid Amnesiac". (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:57:51 +0200 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Nina Simone on 24/02/02 20:11, Keith Astbury at keith.astbury10@virgin.net wrote: > yeah but she's a lesson to everyone that there is a right time to give in. > have you seen her perform in recent years - she's terrible. she was on some > naff programme a couple of years ago, and my girlfriend was shushing > everyone when she came on - and then it was a case of 'oh dear'! > she was lifeless, tired, disinterested and uninteresting. oh yeah - and out > of tune. she should have left people to their memories... > keith I've seen Nina Simone about 10 years ago, accompanied by a minimalist band with arrangements that reminded me of Henry Cow and their like. I was one of the only two people in the audience that enjoyed the show. Everyone said she was lifeless, couldn't sing, blah blah blah - they expected to see a jazz singer and got something completely different instead. Everyone liked the support except for me - it was DD Bridgewater with her endless audience arse licking - now, that's a really BAD singer, though she's never out of tune. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #58 ******************************