From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #28 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, January 26 2002 Volume 05 : Number 028 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AW: [idealcopy] top manchester lp's [Woerner Frank ] Re: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? ["k erickson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] re. worst lp by someone good ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope [Dj Na Na ] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope ["ian.s. jackson" ] Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - count yourself lucky... ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven ["ian.s. jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re : The Church ["ian.s. jackson" ] [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Hood U.S. Tour Dates ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] the splits [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] julian cope [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] the splits ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:30:24 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] top manchester lp's > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2002 21:23 > An: MarkBursa@aol.com; ideal copy > Betreff: [idealcopy] top manchester lp's > > > mark said > > >>TQID is still the masterpiece. Possibly the third best > album made by a > >Manchester band ;-) > > > >what's the others ??? That would be the album by the Bodines ... FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:12:46 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] blancmange my brother saw blancmange around this time and rated it as about his worst gig ever. they toured with no material so they did "ceiling" about 4 times ; the 7" version , the 12" version , the remix , the US mix..... there were much worst bands around , but a hard act to get overexcited about.p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:58:23 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven >>I think 'Eardrum Buzz' is right up there in Pop-Wire-heaven with 'Map > > Ref', 'Ahead' & 'Outdoor Miner' and I like it even better than 'Kidney > >Bingos' > > can I add 'the Offer' to that list? >> > > >And In Vivo. And the Coatings versionof Madman's Honey... > > >Mark > > and silk skin paws of course > > Alistair i second that commotion! keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:32:56 -0800 (PST) From: BillyD Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Robert Rental/The Normal I found a track on audiogalaxy. I've downloaded it and the sound is ok. (low sampling rate) Unless you want to convert your vinyl, here's one way to have it on cd. Cheers, Billy - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/24/02 11:42:57 AM Central > Standard Time, > bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > > << In 1980 [?] visiting London I bought a 12-inch by > Robert Rental. I forgot > it's name and all my vinyl's tugged away in the > attic, so... > It's got a red sleeve [without printing] with an > opening in the center and > the vinyl was pressed on only one side. > > All I remember of it is Robert angrily bellowing > over some crooked > dancehall-tunes and me liking it a lot it those > days... > Can anyone tell me what it was called? > > Bart > bartvandamme@home.nl > http://www.bartvandamme.com > >> > > Maybe that Was Robert Rental and Normal (Daniel > Miller) Live at the West > Runton Pavillion??? That record was supposed to be > reissued on cd through the > Grey Area of Mute Records....i don't think that ever > happend... > > Robert ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:30:44 -0400 From: "k erickson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? quoth fernando: I think that the singing does not go with the music, or at >least how it used to... I liked Bernard's stupid-but-clever lyrics >before, but here, he is forcing the rhyming with dreadful results. that's exactly what i heard. ''cuz i'll be there for YOU when you want me to' from '60 miles an hour' seems so wooden. i was a little surprised to see so many on the list, ex-punks with a high-level exemplar (wire), so readily praise what seems to me a lacklustre effort by new order. i find 'crystal' and 'vicious streak' able and listenable, but the rest of the disc at best undistinguished and at worst, as fernando says, dreadful. dreadful because we all know they can and have done better, and because they are not attempting a new style but failing at recreating their old style. and i think fernando's complaint is one that previous new order songs flirt with also-- something about their (mechanical) rhyming to the (mathematical) beats often seems dangerously close to forced-- but when it works it's great. here it doesn't. oh, and......billy corgan???????? no. tim remarked: >I can't say I feel grief when any band breaks up. Often it is a merciful >release. Indeed I can't recall any band splitting before their time was up, >unless someone died. i agree. with so many examples of bands failing to progress or even maintain their original levels, it's hard to justify our desire for them to produce indefinitely. doubtless some of the bands who split could have gone on to something worthy, but the fact that they did split is probably a truer indicator than our hopeful projections are of what would have come. wire, happily, are the great exception. kristoph - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:40:27 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? One of the best tracks on the album is Turn My Way, the one featuring (briefly) Billy Corgan. I'm amazed at the hostility to his association with NO. His contributions seem fine to me. Unlike the primal Scream bits, which are embarrasing. Also agree with the comments re Behind Closed Doors (Crystal B-side). Best thing they've done this time round... Mark << oh, and......billy corgan???????? no. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:01:04 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven >From: Ari Britt >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven > >Keith sed:> >> A > >> And I'll add 'Feed Me' Ari >> >> >> Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! - Mark > >thank's for that mark. i thought it was just me! >keith >AND as I sed,pop = popular,and I feel that,had this >toon been given enough air play,it woulda become >populr.Ari I completely agree w/ Ari. Most tracks Wire recorded (as a group) were "pop" and had the potential to become "popular". Their failure to do so is perhaps more a comment on popular tastes than on Wire's music. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:13:27 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] Rental's Thnx all who reminded me about the Robert Rental& the Normal 12" Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:35:56 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven >>>> Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! - Mark >>> thank's for that mark. i thought it was just me! >> AND as I sed,pop = popular,and I feel that,had this >> toon been given enough air play,it woulda become >> populr. > I completely agree w/ Ari. Most tracks Wire recorded (as a group) were > "pop" and had the potential to become "popular". Their failure to do so is > perhaps more a comment on popular tastes than on Wire's music. Well... defining pop [very hard to do] I think it has to have a sort of catchyness to it that's not easy to put your finger on. But treating pop as an award in itself [the potential to become popular] is a whole different thing! I mean, Beethoven's 5th is very popular... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com [we could of course invent a new, more suitable word] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:51:38 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rental's > Thnx all who reminded me about the Robert Rental& the Normal 12" > /////still think "robert rental & the normal live at west runton pavilion" is one of my all-time favourite lp titles. never went there , i hear it was a shit-hole. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:46:44 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: [idealcopy] julian cope Compared to blancmange? There's no comparison, feel me now is an electronic anthem. This julian cope song i'm listening to is bar room crud. Just an acoustic guitar and I'm not hearing anything worthwhile here. But hey it's only my opinion, i don't enjoy this at all. I wonder what the name of this is? Unfortunately i don't care about it so i won't hum a few bars. "And you can get awaaay with murrrrrdeer yeaaaaeaaaaahhh"-now that's a good song. Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:08:06 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope While old 80s synth-pop now has a certain retro trendiness, care should be taken to separate quality acts from the period from manufactured froth, of which Blancmange is a prime example. Julian Cope has never made an album that's not worth listening to, even though some of it may appear, as you say, close to "bar room crud". Mark << Compared to blancmange? There's no comparison, feel me now is an electronic anthem. This julian cope song i'm listening to is bar room crud. Just an acoustic guitar and I'm not hearing anything worthwhile here. But hey it's only my opinion, i don't enjoy this at all. I wonder what the name of this is? Unfortunately i don't care about it so i won't hum a few bars. >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:32:28 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope well bless my cotton socks! if you are seriously suggesting that blancmange are better than julian cope, then...for once i'm almost speechless! i'll sum it up by quoting side 1 track 1 of classic debut LP 'kilimanjaro' - 'the stupid things you say you only try to hurt me...' you're right robert - he's having us on mate... keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dj Na Na To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: [idealcopy] julian cope > Compared to blancmange? There's no comparison, feel me > now is an electronic anthem. > > This julian cope song i'm listening to is bar room > crud. Just an acoustic guitar and I'm not hearing > anything worthwhile here. But hey it's only my > opinion, i don't enjoy this at all. I wonder what the > name of this is? Unfortunately i don't care about it > so i won't hum a few bars. > > > "And you can get awaaay with murrrrrdeer > yeaaaaeaaaaahhh"-now that's a good song. > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 19:30:35 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re. worst lp by someone good Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re. worst lp by someone good I rated Chrome for their first few albums, and elements of Half Machine Lip Moves as brilliant, but Alien Soundtracks 2!!!! That represents quite a plummet from great heights - as I understand did much of the later Damon Edge/Chrome stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:06:19 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: mozzer Triumph of the Will - Devo Can listers think of any other...nah, I can't go through with that sentence. Ian - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Especially the first time you hear it. 'Pie' doesn't crop up in too many > songs! > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope Make up whatever you like I'm just not finding it entertaining in the least. ;^) Sounds like a hippie campout folksy song. If that's your thing, cool man more power to you. Maybe you can point me to some different work he's done? Cheers - --- Keith Astbury wrote: > well bless my cotton socks! > if you are seriously suggesting that blancmange are > better than julian cope, > then...for once i'm almost speechless! i'll sum it > up by quoting side 1 > track 1 of classic debut LP 'kilimanjaro' - > 'the stupid things you say > you only try to hurt me...' > you're right robert - he's having us on mate... > keith > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dj Na Na > To: > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 5:46 PM > Subject: [idealcopy] julian cope > > > > Compared to blancmange? There's no comparison, > feel me > > now is an electronic anthem. > > > > This julian cope song i'm listening to is bar room > > crud. Just an acoustic guitar and I'm not hearing > > anything worthwhile here. But hey it's only my > > opinion, i don't enjoy this at all. I wonder what > the > > name of this is? Unfortunately i don't care about > it > > so i won't hum a few bars. > > > > > > "And you can get awaaay with murrrrrdeer > > yeaaaaeaaaaahhh"-now that's a good song. > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > > http://auctions.yahoo.com Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:06:46 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope Keith wrote : >you're right robert - he's having us on mate... i wonder if our NaNa friend would mind telling us how old he is...? i refrain from saying anything about what he's posted so far, until... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven - --- Ari Britt wrote: > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:20:57 -0800 (PST) > From: Ari Britt > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire pop heaven > To: Bart van Damme > > Bart wrote > Well... defining pop [very hard to do] I think it > has > to have a sort of > catchyness to it that's not easy to put your finger > on. But treating > pop as > an award in itself [the potential to become popular] > is a whole > different > thing! I mean, Beethoven's 5th is very popular... > > I agree,'cept of course I was talking in the here > and > now insofar as my definition of what popular > meant(that is,current music currently popular). > Perhaps the term catchy is better,or better yet,we > could invent a new word whose definition would mean > 'I > think you lot are splittin' hairs mate'or something > like that (just my sense of humor) > On another note,call me old fashioned if you > wish,but > Ive been watching the debate on 'where music is > going',if guitar music is 'on the way out',which I > seriously doubt,how do you account for the success > of > A3 (Alabama 3)or even my old fave The Cure,I am > pretty > sure that,no matter the trend amongst the > young,guitars,piano's,drums,trumpets,or anything > else > shall be around for a long long time to come.have a > great week-end Y'all.Ari > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:47:48 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - count yourself lucky... Keith wrote, re New Order's last LP : >so i'd just like to stand up and be counted now! ok...one...!!!!! sorry mate, couldn't resist that ;) there has been a LOT of previous on 'Get Ready' here... i'm in the 'should have just released 'Regret' and split up (never mind 'Republic') camp'...but then, i suspect i'm on my own there...!! but what a great way to go that would have been... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:51:32 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope I ask the same thing to you. I didn't like the julian cope song I heared. No big deal. Can we get along or is this some brittish thing where we have to be nasty to eachother? I can see why they say there are camps on here now. sheesh. Lighten up *Shrug* - --- "ian.s. jackson" wrote: > Keith wrote : > >you're right robert - he's having us on mate... > > i wonder if our NaNa friend would mind telling us > how old he is...? > i refrain from saying anything about what he's > posted so far, until... > > ian.s.j. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:05:56 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven i'd just like to add 'come back in two halves'...? (silk skin paws 12" version) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:48:56 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] the splits i said < Subject: [idealcopy] Re : The Church i'm answering my own question here... it was 'Unguarded Moment' that i was thinking of... anyone know any other popular ones? cheers, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:48:26 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OFF TOPIC - Hood U.S. Tour Dates thought there might be a few interested in this one... ian.s.j. >Hood to Embark on First U.S. Tour > >Wear your hoodie to the show and make a visual pun! >George Pletz reports: >Ass-slaying lo-fi popstars-with-beats Hood will bring their 21st century >bedsit rock to the diffident crowded bars and clubs of the USA for the >first >time ever in early March. By spring, cLOUDDEAD, the hip-hop collective >featured prominently on Hood's too-excellent new album, Cold House, will >start sharing the stage as the band makes its way into Texas. Talk about >culture shock. (It's not like you have anything better to talk about.) > >Coinciding with these stateside appearances, Slumberland (the indie >shoegazer institution, not the La-Z-Boy-retailing strip mall chain) will be >reissuing a tiny portion of the group's mammoth discography. This will >include the debut 1994's Cabled Linear Traction and a remix EP previously >only available as import. > >Hood has been producing music since 1990 on a variety of labels with a >shifting line-up. The core of the band, brothers Chris and Richard Adams, >has remained as the sound moved from its "Sonic Youth on Pavement in New >Zealand" beginnings to a textured style which embraces glitch and >space-rock. Cold House was released on November 14th of last year, and is >presently blowin' up like mom on Doritos. Catch this shit before it flies >away. > >03-09 Cleveland, OH - Beachland >03-10 Detroit, MI - Magic Stick >03-11 Toronto, ON - Horseshoe >03-12 Montreal, QB - La Salla Rosa >03-13 Boston, MA - T.T. The Bear's >03-15 Brooklyn, NY - Warsaw >03-16 Philly, PA - Khyber >03-17 Baltimore, MD - Ottobar >03-18 Atlanta, GA - Earl >03-20 New Orleans, LA - El Matador >03-21 Houston, TX - Engine Room (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-22 Dallas, TX - Club Clearview (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-23 Austin, TX P Emo's (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-25 Tucson, AZ - Solar Cultural Center (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-26 San Diego, CA - Casbah (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-27 Los Angeles, CA - Knitting Factory (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-28 San Francisco, CA - Great American Music Hall (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-29 Portland, OR - Blackbird (w/cLOUDDEAD) >03-30 Seattle, WA - Crocodile Cafe (w/cLOUDDEAD) >04-04 Minneapolis, MN - 7th St. Entry >04-05 Chicago, IL - Empty Bottle >04-06 Chicago, IL - Empty Bottle _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 02:12:38 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope Na Na >I ask the same thing to you. I didn't like the julian >cope song I heared. No big deal. Can we get along or >is this some brittish thing where we have to be nasty >to eachother? > >I can see why they say there are camps on here now. >sheesh. Lighten up haha....we can get along, it's ok. i laugh because i have to put up with a few 'know-all Americans' on the Guided By Voices list...boy, have i ruffled a few feathers there... ;) ian.s.j. (39 and counting down the days...) _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:28:25 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the splits Not true. The K always said they would make one album and split. Which they did. As good a live band as I have ever seen, incidentally. Mark << incidentally my other fave was when josef k split and announced 'we blame the nme'! >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:34:02 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope Mr Nana, Please understand the Idealcopy list is populated by nasty smelly old punks. If we met you we would probably spit on you and call you names. None of us have washed since 1977. Most of us are out of our brains on dope and speed. Mark << I ask the same thing to you. I didn't like the julian cope song I heared. No big deal. Can we get along or is this some brittish thing where we have to be nasty to eachother? >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:09:20 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? regarding billy corgan, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << I'm amazed at the hostility to his association with NO. His contributions seem fine to me. Unlike the primal Scream bits, which are embarrasing. >> i agree 100%. the gillespie vocals are painful to listen to, while the corgan lines are minimal and not out of place in the song. my one complaint with get ready is, as others have also put it, the forced rhyming that has worked in the past falls very short in a few spots here, especially the last line of the album. that makes it all the worse because it's the thing that's freshest in your mind after listening to an otherwise (imo) very good album. - -paul (60 mph) c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:45:41 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] julian cope In a message dated 1/25/02 8:35:07 PM Central Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > Mr Nana, > > Please understand the Idealcopy list is populated by nasty smelly old > punks. > If we met you we would probably spit on you and call you names. None of us > have washed since 1977. Most of us are out of our brains on dope and speed. > > Mark > > hahhahahhahahahahahahhahaha, now that is one of the funniest posts i have seen...and that's saying alot.... cheers to my loveable smelly old brit punker friends from across the pond! Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:39:57 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the splits keith said << incidentally my other fave was > when josef k split and announced 'we blame the nme'! >> > Not true. The K always said they would make one album and split. Which they > did. > As good a live band as I have ever seen, incidentally. > > Mark oh yes it is - i've still got the press cutting somewhere. they might have said that they were gonna split after one album, but that was what they said WHEN they split! keith ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #28 ******************************