From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #26 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, January 25 2002 Volume 05 : Number 026 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. ["Syarzhuk Kazachenk] [idealcopy] In-between [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Some ids from another tape / is #2 wire? ["Jerry" ] [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it [Dj Na Na ] Re: [idealcopy] Some ids from another tape / is #2 wire? [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] colin [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. [Dj Na Na ] Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] solo smiths = bad ["Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. >I think that forward music, bands, groups, etc etc. are going >towards...electronic music. Why does it matter how the sounds are created? Is "A-Z" which was played with real guitars worse than "Bastard"? After the keyboard-happy new wave 80s wasn't Nirvana a return to guitar-based music? And where would you place David Thomas and Two Pale Boys which feature a trumpet connected to a MIDI sound processor? Try playing it loud and convincing any of your electronic-music fan friends that this is "electronic music" Syarzhuk _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:21:35 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] In-between > but what are IAITB and in-between? That would be me getting the album wrong. I actually meant It-ness by Hox.... http://www.snub.dircon.co.uk/wireviews/reviews/it-ness.html C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://www.wireviews.org News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://www.vmuonline.com SVA: http://www.snubcommunications.com - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:12:42 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. Syarzhuk writes: << Is "A-Z" which was played with real guitars worse than "Bastard"? >> actually, i think "Bastard" stinks....i agree with you Syarzhuk...These days, i don't think it matters how music is made....the exploration of sound is all that matters.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:19:53 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures In a message dated 1/24/02 2:11:40 AM Central Standard Time, frederik_jensen@get2net.dk writes: << hi looking for: robert rental paralysis 7" ac marias so drop 7">>>>>>>>>>> i have both of these as well as the AC Marias track "The Whispered Year" from the Touch Tape Sampler would somebody be interested in sharing these treasures with me? oh, and perhaps somebody could come up with the tracklisting of a "madrid" epcds on which a bruce gilbert remix is to be found?>>>>>>> i have this track as well...i could tape all of them for you onto a cassette?... thank you frederik jensen >> Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:22:47 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Some ids from another tape / is #2 wire? > btw do you know the name of the marc almond track > where he says "let's go, let's go, to paradise jack, > to paradise jack" that's "Bittersweet" from the "Tears Run Rings" album. j ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:21:43 -0500 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] I can't belive i'm only realizing wire now. lol I got into Wire as they happened, the first time around. I remember seeing the Pink Flag lp in an EJ Korvettes in the Kings Plaza mall in Brooklyn, NY, and though I'd been reading occasional Trouser Presses and (very occasional MM) I'm not sure I knew who the band were. But it had a "parental warning" type sticker on it, some other record company style hyper - like "21 songs, 41 minutes" type of thing and was at a ridiculously cheap price - I think it cost $4.99. So I grabbed it, took it home, put it on and was immediately hooked. I had already gotten the Pistols "Anarchy" single as a 12" from Barclay France and heard some of the other first wave punk bands, but the Wire thing was different. It was, ... taut ... for lack of a better word. It had an icy anger to it rather than vile spewing vehement nilhism. It seemed like a lean musical machine, all polished shades of mettalic grey. It had a sense of intellectualism, with more than just a hint of wit behind the minimalism. Minimalistic in all ways - information, song length, instrumentation, band information. I loved it. For quite a while Pink Flag and Pere Ubu's "Datapanik in the Year Zero" - a Radar UK 12" were my constant soundtrack and punk touchstones. Due to a quirk in release schedules, the second Wire album I bought was 154 (Chairs Missing never did get a US release as vinyl) and actually the first time I heard it, I didn't like it. I didn't know how to hear it. But repeated listenings - ah remember the days when you had patience to rerelisten to something you didn't like - rather quickly changed my mind. And for the longest time I think 154 is their masterpeice. The Sgt Pepper of the punk era - the furthest travel into extended song structure and studio manipulation for them (and I guess that means in retrospect that Chairs Missing is Rubber Soul/Revolver and Pink Flag all the earlier ones). One other Wire memory that I just flashed on. I was in the car with my Dad, and he would usually let me tune the radio and listen till he couldn't take it any more. In his own way he was as much a music bug as I was, and on one of the local college stations, the then currentish "I am the Fly" came on. I knew the song, but it was still fresh and exciting to me so I cranked the volume a bit. My dad actually made it most of the way through the tune without comment till he finally said "That has to be the most annoying song I have ever heard" And I said "Exactly" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:26:37 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] I can't belive i'm only realizing wire now. lol Great story Stephen! Especially the bit where you describe Wire's differentness from other punkbands in the early days. My feelings exactly! Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com Stephen wrote: > I got into Wire as they happened, the first time around. I remember seeing > the Pink Flag lp in an EJ Korvettes in the Kings Plaza mall in Brooklyn, NY, > and though I'd been reading occasional Trouser Presses and (very occasional > MM) I'm not sure I knew who the band were. But it had a "parental warning" > type sticker on it, some other record company style hyper - like "21 songs, > 41 minutes" type of thing and was at a ridiculously cheap price - I think it > cost $4.99. So I grabbed it, took it home, put it on and was immediately > hooked. I had already gotten the Pistols "Anarchy" single as a 12" from > Barclay France and heard some of the other first wave punk bands, but the > Wire thing was different. It was, ... taut ... for lack of a better word. > It had an icy anger to it rather than vile spewing vehement nilhism. It > seemed like a lean musical machine, all polished shades of mettalic grey. > It had a sense of intellectualism, with more than just a hint of wit behind > the minimalism. Minimalistic in all ways - information, song length, > instrumentation, band information. I loved it. For quite a while Pink Flag > and Pere Ubu's "Datapanik in the Year Zero" - a Radar UK 12" were my > constant soundtrack and punk touchstones. > > Due to a quirk in release schedules, the second Wire album I bought was 154 > (Chairs Missing never did get a US release as vinyl) and actually the first > time I heard it, I didn't like it. I didn't know how to hear it. But > repeated listenings - ah remember the days when you had patience to > rerelisten to something you didn't like - rather quickly changed my mind. > And for the longest time I think 154 is their masterpeice. The Sgt Pepper > of the punk era - the furthest travel into extended song structure and > studio manipulation for them (and I guess that means in retrospect that > Chairs Missing is Rubber Soul/Revolver and Pink Flag all the earlier ones). > > One other Wire memory that I just flashed on. I was in the car with my Dad, > and he would usually let me tune the radio and listen till he couldn't take > it any more. In his own way he was as much a music bug as I was, and on one > of the local college stations, the then currentish "I am the Fly" came on. > I knew the song, but it was still fresh and exciting to me so I cranked the > volume a bit. My dad actually made it most of the way through the tune > without comment till he finally said "That has to be the most annoying song > I have ever heard" And I said "Exactly" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:41:39 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures > looking for: > robert rental paralysis 7" In 1980 [?] visiting London I bought a 12-inch by Robert Rental. I forgot it's name and all my vinyl's tugged away in the attic, so... It's got a red sleeve [without printing] with an opening in the center and the vinyl was pressed on only one side. All I remember of it is Robert angrily bellowing over some crooked dancehall-tunes and me liking it a lot it those days... Can anyone tell me what it was called? Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:04:52 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures In a message dated 1/24/02 11:42:57 AM Central Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << In 1980 [?] visiting London I bought a 12-inch by Robert Rental. I forgot it's name and all my vinyl's tugged away in the attic, so... It's got a red sleeve [without printing] with an opening in the center and the vinyl was pressed on only one side. All I remember of it is Robert angrily bellowing over some crooked dancehall-tunes and me liking it a lot it those days... Can anyone tell me what it was called? Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com >> Maybe that Was Robert Rental and Normal (Daniel Miller) Live at the West Runton Pavillion??? That record was supposed to be reissued on cd through the Grey Area of Mute Records....i don't think that ever happend... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:00 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Cool purchases Went to the town mall - the record store there that used to be called Record Town is now FYE - the regular prices went up ($16/CD is "on sale", regular price is $20!!!), but they had a cool selection of $5 cutouts. Bought Violent Femmes "Viva Wiskonsin" and "Freak Magnet" and a Howling Wolf's greatest hits collection. They also had Blondie's "No Exit" and "Live" and a load of Motley Crue, Anthrax, Yes and others... If you want any of these, I can buy them for you. Syarzhuk _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:21:36 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures that's the one. though i've got a 2nd copy in another sleeve ... dunno who issued it, as it's in a box somewhere. dan >In a message dated 1/24/02 11:42:57 AM Central Standard Time, >bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > ><< In 1980 [?] visiting London I bought a 12-inch by Robert Rental. I forgot > it's name and all my vinyl's tugged away in the attic, so... > It's got a red sleeve [without printing] with an opening in the center and > the vinyl was pressed on only one side. > > All I remember of it is Robert angrily bellowing over some crooked > dancehall-tunes and me liking it a lot it those days... > Can anyone tell me what it was called? > > Bart > bartvandamme@home.nl > http://www.bartvandamme.com > >> > >Maybe that Was Robert Rental and Normal (Daniel Miller) Live at the West >Runton Pavillion??? That record was supposed to be reissued on cd through the >Grey Area of Mute Records....i don't think that ever happend... > >Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:22:00 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven << >>I think 'Eardrum Buzz' is right up there in Pop-Wire-heaven with 'Map Ref', 'Ahead' & 'Outdoor Miner' and I like it even better than 'Kidney Bingos' can I add 'the Offer' to that list? >> And In Vivo. And the Coatings versionof Madman's Honey... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:22:50 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven << >>I think 'Eardrum Buzz' is right up there in Pop-Wire-heaven with 'Map Ref', 'Ahead' & 'Outdoor Miner' and I like it even better than 'Kidney Bingos' can I add 'the Offer' to that list? oh, I just did.... A And I'll add 'Feed Me' Ari >> Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:23:13 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] looking for treasures In a message dated 1/24/02 1:21:51 PM Central Standard Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: << that's the one. though i've got a 2nd copy in another sleeve ... dunno who issued it, as it's in a box somewhere. dan >> rough trade i believe... robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: [idealcopy] Re: I can't belive i'm only realizing wire now. Yep good story stephen. Reminds me of my dad too except I doubt he'd insult my music. heh Stephen said it best with this line, ">It had a sense of intellectualism, with more than just a hint of wit" My thoughts exactly. Even a cyborg sleek if you will > --- Bart van Damme wrote: > > Great story Stephen! > > Especially the bit where you describe Wire's > > differentness from other > > punkbands in the early days. My feelings exactly! > > > > Cheers... > > > > Bart > > bartvandamme@home.nl > > http://www.bartvandamme.com > > > > > > > > > > Stephen wrote: > > > > > I got into Wire as they happened, the first time > > around. I remember seeing > > > the Pink Flag lp in an EJ Korvettes in the Kings > > Plaza mall in Brooklyn, NY, > > > and though I'd been reading occasional Trouser > > Presses and (very occasional > > > MM) I'm not sure I knew who the band were. But > it > > had a "parental warning" > > > type sticker on it, some other record company > > style hyper - like "21 songs, > > > 41 minutes" type of thing and was at a > > ridiculously cheap price - I think it > > > cost $4.99. So I grabbed it, took it home, put > it > > on and was immediately > > > hooked. I had already gotten the Pistols > > "Anarchy" single as a 12" from > > > Barclay France and heard some of the other first > > wave punk bands, but the > > > Wire thing was different. It was, ... taut ... > > for lack of a better word. > > > It had an icy anger to it rather than vile > spewing > > vehement nilhism. It > > > seemed like a lean musical machine, all polished > > shades of mettalic grey. > > > It had a sense of intellectualism, with more > than > > just a hint of wit behind > > > the minimalism. Minimalistic in all ways - > > information, song length, > > > instrumentation, band information. I loved it. > > For quite a while Pink Flag > > > and Pere Ubu's "Datapanik in the Year Zero" - a > > Radar UK 12" were my > > > constant soundtrack and punk touchstones. > > > > > > Due to a quirk in release schedules, the second > > Wire album I bought was 154 > > > (Chairs Missing never did get a US release as > > vinyl) and actually the first > > > time I heard it, I didn't like it. I didn't > know > > how to hear it. But > > > repeated listenings - ah remember the days when > > you had patience to > > > rerelisten to something you didn't like - rather > > quickly changed my mind. > > > And for the longest time I think 154 is their > > masterpeice. The Sgt Pepper > > > of the punk era - the furthest travel into > > extended song structure and > > > studio manipulation for them (and I guess that > > means in retrospect that > > > Chairs Missing is Rubber Soul/Revolver and Pink > > Flag all the earlier ones). > > > > > > One other Wire memory that I just flashed on. I > > was in the car with my Dad, > > > and he would usually let me tune the radio and > > listen till he couldn't take > > > it any more. In his own way he was as much a > > music bug as I was, and on one > > > of the local college stations, the then > currentish > > "I am the Fly" came on. > > > I knew the song, but it was still fresh and > > exciting to me so I cranked the > > > volume a bit. My dad actually made it most of > the > > way through the tune > > > without comment till he finally said "That has > to > > be the most annoying song > > > I have ever heard" And I said "Exactly" > Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! > http://auctions.yahoo.com Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:42:13 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: [idealcopy] Blancmange-Feel me now I have this 12" but I discovered a cooler one on a tape and now need that one. The one I have is more stripped down. Maybe I don't have the original? It's the living on the ceiling/feel me 12" from 82' The one i'm after has clearer(louder) synths in it. the one I have is a bit of a dirty mix. thanks Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it Alright i think this is going to be a tough i.d. but if anyone gets it then this is definitly the best list i've ever been on. ;^) I'll do my best to describe it. It has drums doing your basic 4 4 beat but the kick drum dosen't really exist and there's these kind of computer screeches(that sort of sound like when you're logging onto a dial up internet) and lots of other miscelaneous noises and sounds going on. Some synths in the background but constantly changing. There's a bassline that's going on often. shit that's the best i can describe the sounds. The guy is very moody sounding, like a robert smith moodiness except with a much deeper voice in a bella lagosi vampyre type voice or style. kind of singing but more talk singing. Okay here's the opening lyrics. "some...... times i want to be.... with you sometimes.. i feel at home. some..... times a part of you sometimes i want to be.. ahhlone" ((alright this next line is a total guess, it's hard to tell what he's saying because the sounds are kind of over his voice,)) "fight play pretty feet....i wishes no sleep something something something something something.....watch take(??)" then it goes on one or two more lines, then a lot of noise over the drum beat. then the noise relaxes a bit and he says "and watch to kill" then back into the original part i started with. really bizarre song. sounds like it could be dracula himself. if anyone gets this they're a genius. Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:10:01 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it Watch Take Care by He Said.....which is Graham Lewis of Wire..... too easy are you sure you aren't jokin' around? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:45:32 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it sweet! no, i had no idea. I've only heared a few wire toons from those tapes. good work - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > Watch Take Care by He Said.....which is Graham Lewis > of Wire..... > > too easy > > are you sure you aren't jokin' around? > > Robert Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:52:48 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven > I think 'Eardrum Buzz' is right up there in Pop-Wire-heaven with 'Map > Ref', 'Ahead' & 'Outdoor Miner' and I like it even better > than 'Kidney Bingos' > can I add 'the Offer' to that list? > > A > And I'll add 'Feed Me' Ari >> > > Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! - Mark thank's for that mark. i thought it was just me! keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:58:24 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] blancmange hearing about blancmange reminded me of the reason that julian cope gave for the break up of the teardrop explodes. he blamed it all on blancmange, saying he'd heard the album and felt responsible. and if i remember rightly he said he hated it so much he put it on the cooker to melt it and then on the floor and skated over it. or something like that. as the teardops were my fave band of the time, i always felt a bit bad about having bought it after that! keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:06:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Some ids from another tape / is #2 wire? HEY Jerry,nice to see a fellow 'shrieker' on the wire list.Ari Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:30:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven Keith sed:> > A > And I'll add 'Feed Me' Ari >> > > Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! - Mark thank's for that mark. i thought it was just me! keith AND as I sed,pop = popular,and I feel that,had this toon been given enough air play,it woulda become populr.Ari - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Click a to send an instant message to an online friend = Online, = Offline Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] colin Friend of mine on the shriekback site sez he is keen to get a copy of a disc that 'came with' commercial suicide (not with mine)featuring colin in interview,anyone gottit?lemme know.Ari Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:07:50 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire pop heaven Sorry but I just can't see that. it's one of the most "difficult" '80s Wire pieces and I can't imagine any radio station playlisting it. I'd say every other track on The Ideal Copy would have had a better chance of that. Pop=Pop! Mark << > And I'll add 'Feed Me' Ari >> > > Er...what!?! Hardly a pop moment????!! - Mark thank's for that mark. i thought it was just me! keith AND as I sed,pop = popular,and I feel that,had this toon been given enough air play,it woulda become populr.Ari ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:28:52 -0800 (PST) From: Dj Na Na Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. >--- Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote:Why does it matter how the sounds are created? It dosen't. >Is "A-Z" which was played with real guitars worse >than "Bastard"? No, you're assuming. >After the keyboard-happy new wave 80s wasn't Nirvana >a return to guitar-based music? Imo there's only so many times you can play the same chords on a guitar by itself through an amp without any other effects going on. Poppunk/rapmetal(see faith no more) has been done. You can like it til the cows release their milk but it's Flogging a dead horse. >And where would you place David Thomas and Two Pale >Boys which feature a trumpet connected to a MIDI sound processor? I would be more interested in that, actually. >Try playing it loud and convincing any of your electronic-music fan friends that this is "electronic >music" They would probably be the one's doing it. Imo 'almost' anything plugged into something could be considered electronic. >Syarzhuk > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print > your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: My thoughts on where music is going. My idea of where music is going lies in such profound performers/players/producers as John Zorn,check him out,but beware,he is one of the most diverse writers of music to set foot on this planet,writing for genres such as Jazz,Punk,electronica,'experimental',chamber music,Japanese clasical music,'noise',Film music to name a few,in his early-mid 40's he has well over 100 c.d's to his credit and,like Miles davis,is well know outside his own country more than here in the u.s.a.Ari Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:22:33 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it In a message dated 24/01/2002 20:11:43 GMT Standard Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > Watch Take Care by He Said.....which is Graham Lewis of Wire..... > > too easy > > are you sure you aren't jokin' around? > > Robert > He's got to be joking us.What a fantastic CD that is ! Graham Lewis is Dracula though. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:53:50 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] solo smiths = bad Bart wrote: >I guess the "greater than the sum of..." argument with lots of broken bands >[e.g. we spoke of the Pixies earlier] has something to do with the sence of >grief we feel cos of the breaking up. I can't say I feel grief when any band breaks up. Often it is a merciful release. Indeed I can't recall any band splitting before their time was up, unless someone died. When they do its usually when they have said all they have to say, or when they are already along way down the downward spiral. Sure The Smiths were at the peak of their powers when they split, but really there was nowhere else for them to go, within such a narrow musical language (albeit a very good one). The only thing they could have done was become a stadium rock act and sell millions of records in the US. Their last great work was to quit while they were ahead! Look at their peers, New Order. They should have quit after Republic. They made the fatal mistake of listening to the marketing men at London Records. They pushed their own personalities on the general public in some weird 'Look at us...you thought we were aloof, arty types but really we are just like Oasis and we can rock too' thing. Joy Division New Order have always been a bunch of lager louts masquerading as high/pop-art..but that was part of the fun. The broke the spell and no bugger bought their last album. Except me and I've played it once. Wire of course are different. In interviews the members refer to Wire as a separate entity, as something beyond Lewis/Gotobed/Gilbert/Newman playing guitars and drums in a room. Wire don't split up/reform so much as decide that there is something they want "Wire" to do from time to time, and do it. We all know that if they don't make another record together, they will all do things we'll like just as much in their solo/joint projects...and of course not all of them will involve releasing records. I like that concept. I think Wire are sincere in the way they apply it. I think Pink Floyd do it too but perhaps for more blatantly fiscal reasons. Perhaps so they can get away playing stadium gigs without any of the key members of the band present. Pink Floyd is still Waters/Gilmour/maybe even Syd....and those two blokes who drive racing cars....in the fans minds. Pink Floyd is now a thing rather than a group of individuals. Of course while Wire make that separation between the people in the band and what 'Wire' is, the fact that 'Wire' without Gotobed is 'Wir' suggests that while the members of the band can detatch themselves from 'Wire', it cannot be 'Wire' without all members present. It must drop an 'E' or a 'W' or whatever. If Robert is E I suggest you choose your own letters for another the band members. But who wants a band to live forever? Would you really want your favourite bands to go down the Rolling Stones route? i.e go on for so long that you become a parody of the self parody of a 'Rolling Stones' that looked embarrassing 10 years ago and is now just depressing. The naffest thing I've seen on telly recently was a pissed, reptilian 50-something Ronnie Wood dressed like a 15 year old, dribbling away on some chat show demanding more wine and attempt to win the audience over by bragging about how many failed attempts at rehab he had. Ho Ho Ronnie. quit while you have nothing but enough for ahead. ________________________________________ Double Cupboards...Don't be no Bojangles www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:40:49 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it In a message dated 1/24/02 6:23:45 PM Central Standard Time, CHRISWIRE@aol.com writes: > He's got to be joking us.What a fantastic CD that is ! > Graham Lewis is Dracula though. > Chris > HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH! Good one Chris!...i am picturing Graham with fake teeth in his mouth! singing: "I vant to suck your bluuuud" cheers! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 05:50:45 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] solo smiths = bad - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim To: Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 1:53 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] solo smiths = bad > Tim wrote: > > I can't say I feel grief when any band breaks up. i can. i was gutted when the teardrops split up, even though i knew julian would go onto a solo career. he might not have liked dave balfe very much but i liked the results of them working together. and gary 'rocky' dwyer was a brilliant drummer. i wasn't very happy when television split up either, even though i was less than enthusiastic about 'adventure'. (and i was rather sad to hear that steps had recently split up!) > Sure The Smiths were at the peak of their powers when they split, but > really there was nowhere else for them to go, within such a narrow musical > language (albeit a very good one). The only thing they could have done was > become a stadium rock act and sell millions of records in the US. Their > last great work was to quit while they were ahead! with the benefit of hindsight you're probably right, though i wasn't too chuffed at the time! been a bunch of lager louts masquerading as high/pop-art..but that was part > of the fun. The broke the spell and no bugger bought their last album. > Except me and I've played it once. i love their last album. i don't know why people are being so hard on it. most new order albums are patchy affairs with a couple of great tracks on it. 'get ready' has a great opening track - 'crystal' - and then barely lets up. go and give it a few listens. i think the only thing getting in the way of people liking new orders new stuff is their expectation and their reluctance to compare new work by one of the greats with their old. so i'd just like to stand up and be counted now! >Wire of course are different. In interviews the members refer to Wire as a > separate entity, as something beyond Lewis/Gotobed/Gilbert/Newman playing > guitars and drums in a room. Can were similar in this respect. although they stayed in touch they wouldn't play together in the end cos it was too all consuming - and not to be entered into lightly. michael karoli's recent death obviously means that they never will now. > I like that concept. I think Wire are sincere in the way they apply it. I > think Pink Floyd do it too but perhaps for more blatantly fiscal reasons. interesting you should mention pink floyd. when punk/new waves bands had to be considered as a new version of an old band - you know, the stranglers were supposedly the new doors etc - the press decided that wire were the punk pink floyd. personally i like the syd stuff and nothing much else. > But who wants a band to live forever? depends who they are and what they still sound like. i was certainly glad that wire managed to get together for the RFH gig. > Would you really want your favourite bands to go down the Rolling Stones > route? i.e go on for so long that you become a parody of the self parody of > a 'Rolling Stones' that looked embarrassing 10 years ago and is now just > depressing. yep. it's easy to forget now how great the stones were. > The naffest thing I've seen on telly recently was a pissed, reptilian > 50-something Ronnie Wood dressed like a 15 year old, dribbling away on some > chat show demanding more wine and attempt to win the audience over by > bragging about how many failed attempts at rehab he had. Ho Ho Ronnie. i could put up with him talking - but did you see him and his kids playing live on the frank skinner show. it was truly dire... > ________________________________________ > Double Cupboards...Don't be no Bojangles > www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:00:23 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] No (cash) cows on the ice? I agree with Tim stating to the effect that the Wire entity hibernates when seasonally depleted, and rears itself when ideas are ripe. We fans / admirers enjoy most of Wire's fruit and we're undoubtedly hungry for more! Wire is like the flower that blossoms every 3, 5, 7, or 10 years, dependant on the course of nature. Wire's wit-tellect is superior, by my humble opinion, to perhaps 97 percent of all other music I have been exposed to. And here lies my interest in them as a going concern; if, as of lately, they as Wire or as solo's are pressing 1000 or 2000 CD's per album, then moving on with life and it's passage to the next CD, that is not much money (1000 x $18 = $18,000 minus expenses, etc et al). If Wire & family are already preset in life with other ventures, previous royalties, or whatever fuels them, then releasing (break $ even) music for the love of it is top notch! But what if Wire came out with a "cash Cow" album; how would this effect future Wire / solo projects ... and IC'ers? What would 2500 e-mails a day be like after hearing them on the radio throughout the day and Wire-TV at night? Ironically, I would like to see them do this well short of selling themselves out. Recent thoughts of Wire covers, such as Wire tribute to other artists (Soft Cell, Beatles White Album, T-Rex, Kraftwerk, whoever Wire fav's) may / could be the utter of many people. Bottom line: I am greatful to have spent half my life with Wire as occasional soundtrack and merit their integrety to produce beyond the cutting edge of new (and bridging the past with 2000's tour). Rgrds, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:21:39 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A tough i.d. wonder if anyone can get it > "some...... times i want to be.... with you > sometimes.. i feel at home. > some..... times a part of you > sometimes i want to be.. ahhlone" Sinatra? doing it his way? ;-) Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:25:34 -0800 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] Who bought NewOrder? (was: solo smiths = bad) I am not sure if I got with this line of reasoning... that of people not giving it a chance... it could go either way, actually. If they were to release the album instrumentally, I would like it a lot... I think that the singing does not go with the music, or at least how it used to... I liked Bernard's stupid-but-clever lyrics before, but here, he is forcing the rhyming with dreadful results. I am not sure that daft lyrics and/or rhyming is something that can be set aside in the spirit of "change" that we do not get at the time of release, or that we can adapt to it via repeated listening. His singing is as best as it has been... that I will say. But, in Someone Like You it does not seem to fit, which is a shame, as the song is quite good. Some people have jumped on Steve Osbourne for producing badly, and the best track of the lot is the b-side to Crystal, which was produced by Arthur Baker. So, that would lend credence to that thinking, but the Elbow production and other works from Steve seems to bear out that he does alright. Again, instrumentally, it seems that most of the songs work... perhaps they could not work well with Osbourne in that he was not tough on the band to get the quality out. Behind Closed Doors is to me one of the best tracks that they have done since low-life if not earlier (barring 1963)... it accomplishes something that they did not manage to do with Movement (and abandoned with great results with Temptation onwards)... move forward in Joy Division's path without sounding like Joy Division... so it is a nice closure. Even the bum note sung by Bernard at the beginning recalls the charm of PC&L. Priceless. With the uneven albums, I think also that the "masquerading" was part of the appeal of the band... which may not be in this album either. I like some of the tracks, but it does not seem to bleep beyond the solo-lead band's output. cheers! - -fernando PS No problem counting you on the positive side! At 5:50 AM +0000 1/25/02, Keith Astbury wrote: >> been a bunch of lager louts masquerading as high/pop-art..but that was >part >> of the fun. The broke the spell and no bugger bought their last album. >> Except me and I've played it once. > >i love their last album. i don't know why people are being so hard on it. >most new order albums are patchy affairs with a couple of great tracks on >it. 'get ready' has a great opening track - 'crystal' - and then barely lets >up. go and give it a few listens. i think the only thing getting in the way >of people liking new orders new stuff is their expectation and their >reluctance to compare new work by one of the greats with their old. so i'd >just like to stand up and be counted now! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #26 ******************************