From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V5 #3 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, January 4 2002 Volume 05 : Number 003 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 ["bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! RJH wrote: > Also, is anyone familiar with Kruder Dorfmeister? A > friend was playing "The K&D Sessions" at a party and > my sweetie and I can't stop playing it now! Is it a > representative album for them? Or pretty typical? The other year there was a documentary on dutch telly about the "viennese scene" and Kruder & Dorfmeister seemed to be leading it. Liked it a lot [though I haven't got any of their stuff yet]. Superior lounge music, what I heard... Check their site at: http://www.kruder-dorfmeister.com And Robert wrote: > any of you ICers get any get stuff for Christmas/Channukah/Ramadan/ etc? [don't forget /Festivus here] Got me a bunch of Echo's for Xmass [needed it bad! - didn't have ANY on cd] "Ocean Rain" [still the best imo] "Ballyhoo" [not wholly my choice of their best, but it will do fine] "Evergreen" [couple of very nice tunes in there] I got Underworld's Beaucoup Fish wich I'm still liking a lot. Do I hear a huge 80's Wire influence here? Does anyone know if there is a connection? Also Squarepusher's "Feed me weird things" and a weird Aphex Twin cd with lots of remixes and unusual stuff. GREAT! [Underworld, Cocteau's, Bowie, NIN...] Enjoy-de-vivre! BART bartvandamme@home.nl http://www bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 05:16:27 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! pretty sure there's no underworld/wire connection , they used to be a ropey 80's act called freur then they got into dance and produced the excellent "dubnobass..."cd. wasn't so sure about "toughest in the infants" and i never bothered buying the last one after pretty mixed reviews. but if you've not heard it , try "dubnobass.." for starters. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:32:59 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] strokes/hives/stripes Paul wrote: > and please no more strokes/hives/stripes ; i wanted the > spirit of 77 not the trousers. I agree this threesome aren't always very innovative but lots of punkbands in '77 also weren't. Lotsa 70's punk also was very retro, for instance, does anyone here consider the Clash as such? Any now and then there are bands who feel the need to go back to the very basics of R&R. Nothing wrong with that imo as long as their songs are ok [and some of them just are!] So they're no Pistols, Wire, Pixies or Nirvana - - I forgive them... Let's not get too serious about popmusic here... I haven't seen their trousers though, so I'm not sure if I can forgive 'em for that! ;-) Cheers, BART bartvandamme@home.nl http://www bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:38:22 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! > pretty sure there's no underworld/wire connection , they used to be a ropey > 80's act called freur then they got into dance and produced the excellent > "dubnobass..."cd. wasn't so sure about "toughest in the infants" and i never > bothered buying the last one after pretty mixed reviews. but if you've not > heard it , try "dubnobass.." for starters. p Tried it... and liked it! A LOT! And never mind the "mixed reviews" Beaucoup Fish is great stuff. Thnx & cheers, BART bartvandamme@home.nl http://www bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:01:32 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] strokes/hives/stripes i think with the clash the first album was pretty innovative , apparently that was quite a toned-down version of the way they sounded live at the time. but after that they just drifted towards being a (good) rock band. i hated london calling at the time , it seemed like they were going backwards at a time so many other bands were being so innovative. so me and the clash parted company and i got into stuff like JD , GO4 and of course wire. this "nouveau 77" stuff just seems a bit like pastiche to me , its all been done so much better before. still , better than nu-metal i suppose. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:05:25 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! on 1/3/02 2:29 AM, Santa Cruzer at r_j_h@yahoo.com wrote: > Also, is anyone familiar with Kruder Dorfmeister? A > friend was playing "The K&D Sessions" at a party and > my sweetie and I can't stop playing it now! Is it a > representative album for them? Or pretty typical? Any K&D release is pretty typical - they're just all the same. I kinda liked the first CD of the sessions, but the 2nd one sounded just the same, as any other CD of theirs I heard. Went to see them live and it was cold, lifeless, boring, and the sound was metallically unpleasant. I would have thought perhaps it was because of the venue, but a day later I went to see a completely different performance at the same place - warm and brilliant sound, inventive music and lots of fun - it was C&M on their last tour, followed by DJ Morpheus (Minimal Compact's vocalist Sami Birnbach). giluz ps - ROVO - Imago ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:48:59 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 Hi, A friend of mine just came back from a visit to London, where he found a used vinyl copy of the Singing Fish for 2 quid. Inside was a 4AD press release that accompanied the release of the album. It goes like this: Biography Colin Newman COLIN NEWMAN was until recently the guitarist, songwriter and vocalist with the seminal new wave band WIRE, influential but now in a state of suspension pending various solo projects. Colin's first solo album "A-Z", released last automn, was the true heir to Wire's inheritance and was received extremely well by the critics. "PROVISIONALLY ENTITLED THE SINGING FISH" is Colin's new solo album; a solo album in the true sense of the word as Colin is responsible for writing, playing and producing the entire album. An instrumental album, "The Singing Fish" features twelve incredibly varied pieces all of which, we feel, would be well suited to add depth or character to TV documentaries. That's it. Speaking of Singing Fish, I just recently watched the Sopranos episode where that Singing Fish gadget, mentioned here more than a year ago, appears - what a nasty piece of work. cheers, from the seminal new wave band fan, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:28:50 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] strokes/hives/stripes << i think with the clash the first album was pretty innovative , apparently that was quite a toned-down version of the way they sounded live at the time. but after that they just drifted towards being a (good) rock band.<< The Clash were far from "retro" at the time - though hindsight being 20:20 it may look that way now. Also in the post-Sting environment you probably wouldn't want to claim you'd invented white reggae. >> i hated london calling at the time , it seemed like they were going backwards at a time so many other bands were being so innovative. so me and the clash parted company and i got into stuff like JD , GO4 and of course wire.<< The Clash's innovations involved mixing up lots of influences rather than inventing something new (like Wire,PiL, etc). LC is very much an album of its time - and I liked it when it came out. Now the more "experimental" (Strummer) elements sound forced. LC edits down to a good single album really. Lose the Jazzy numbers and keep the Mick Jones stuff. >> this "nouveau 77" stuff just seems a bit like pastiche to me , its all been done so much better before. << It just seems false to me. Stage school kids. The strokes - singer's daddy owns a modelling agency. Guitarist's daddy is Albert "free electric band" Hammond. THIS IS NOT THE MUSIC OF THE STREETS, KIDS!!! >>still , better than nu-metal i suppose. p >> Sting duetting with Phil Collins on a cover of Candle in the Wind, produced by Jeff Lynne and featuring Nigel Kennedy on fiddle is better than nu-metal. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:14:29 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 > "PROVISIONALLY ENTITLED THE SINGING FISH" is Colin's new solo album; a solo > album in the true sense of the word as Colin is responsible for writing, > playing and producing the entire album. > > An instrumental album, "The Singing Fish" features twelve incredibly varied > pieces all of which, we feel, would be well suited to add depth or character > to TV documentaries. "The Singing Fish" was my first solo Colin album and I was not blown away by it. But it's a curious piece of work. Seems a bit like a learning proces album - less songs and more structures. I recognize items and styles from Fish in later [Wire]work, but it is put much better then. > That's it. Speaking of Singing Fish, I just recently watched the Sopranos > episode where that Singing Fish gadget, mentioned here more than a year ago, > appears - what a nasty piece of work. I kinda liked the Soprano's... Cheers, Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:11:23 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] strokes/hives/stripes > It just seems false to me. Stage school kids. The strokes - singer's daddy > owns a modelling agency. Guitarist's daddy is Albert "free electric band" > Hammond. THIS IS NOT THE MUSIC OF THE STREETS, KIDS!!! I wonder if anyone on this list is "from the street"! So what's your point - that they're somehow genetically polluted? Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:24:54 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] strokes/hives/stripes Simply that it's as manufactured as H'ear'sa'y' or any other pop act, yet is presented as some form of rock reinvention comparable to punk. I don't believe such a change is possible now, and I doubt whether "the kids" would be have sufficient attention span to make it happen anyway. Mark << I wonder if anyone on this list is "from the street"! So what's your point - that they're somehow genetically polluted? >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:31:51 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 Whilst we're flagging the spirit of 77 and all that *and* discussing pressies... got two excellent books for Xmas: Ray and Nils Stevenson's Vacant: A Diary of the Punk Years 1976-79 Link here: http://www.uk.bol.com/cec/cstage?eccookie=&ecaction=bolprditmview&PrdId=501843864&search_click=Y and the rather weighty Colegrave and Sullivan's Punk See http://www.punkbook.com/ Both are mostly concerned with the Pistols but lots of good pics etc etc. No Wire. Also been reading Henry Rollin's anthology. To save everyone who hasn't read his stuff, a precis in the style of... : 'I hate pigs me. I hate the biz. I hate the fans. I hate the band. I hate myself. Ooh, if that bloke was here now I'd hit him. But he's not and I didn't when I did see him. Ooh, me mate got shot. Ooh, I'm so hard. Wank, wank, wank, wank.' The Fall album is improving with subsequent listens - I reckon it would have made a good ep. Cheers John In fear of Mansfield Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:38:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 Would have made quite a good punk band name.... Mark ;-) << In fear of Mansfield >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:36:29 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 > Both are mostly concerned with the Pistols but lots of > good pics etc etc. No Wire. NO WIRE??? Both? What good is it then? ;-) Bart http://www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:18:59 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first music of the new year! > And Robert wrote: > > any of you ICers get any get stuff for Christmas/Channukah/Ramadan/ etc? > > [don't forget /Festivus here] > got the nuggets II box set -- '60s garage/psyc stuff from britain, europe, australia, even south america & japan. in light of which, i'm reserving judgment so far on recent pronouncements on how groundbreaking the '77 punk explosion was & how comparatively derivative today's strokes/hives/etc stuff is. (mind you, i don't necessarily disagree with such sentiments ... it's no secret that my favorite musical period is first- & 2nd-wave post-punk of the wire/fall/banshees/cure/gang of 4/killing joke/pil variety. but i also can't get really exercised about whether the strokes or whoever sound too close to the nyc cbgb's school. seems to me the pistols, clash [who also lost me for good about halfway through london calling, as noted previously], damned, etc. copped more than a few licks from the small faces, mott the hoople, stones, velvets, stooges et al.) also got a multi-disc shipment in from bloodshot records a couple of days ago, which ought to fit really well with my & my girlfriend's (now back in arkansas, alas) new year's day (49th anniversary of his death ... i was born on his birthday)) pilgrimage to hank williams' gravesite a couple of miles from my house, followed by a trip to the museum a few blocks from my office. dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:59:51 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 In a message dated 03/01/02 17:33:21 GMT Standard Time, johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com writes: > and the rather weighty Colegrave and Sullivan's Punk > > See > > http://www.punkbook.com/ > > ///this is the #35 coffee table job , right? off shopping tomorrow and i > may try to track this down , bit expensive though..... loved "vacant" , got > that about a year ago. i always thought mr rollins was a bit silly > actually. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:46:10 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Xmas pressies/'77 In a message dated 1/3/02 4:01:31 PM Central Standard Time, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: << i always thought mr rollins was a bit silly > actually. p >> he rolled through here (St. Louis) once and i met him through the record store i worked for at the time....what a complete wanker, jerk, assh*le, twat..etc etc... sheesh! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:47:27 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 In a message dated 1/3/02 6:51:28 AM Central Standard Time, giluz@netvision.net.il writes: << I just recently watched the Sopranos episode where that Singing Fish gadget, mentioned here more than a year ago, appears - what a nasty piece of work. >> what is a singing fish???? Robert (who was not a list member a year ago) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 14:57:59 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 rlynne wrote:<< I just recently watched the Sopranos episode where that Singing Fish gadget, mentioned here more than a year ago, appears - what a nasty piece of work. >> what is a singing fish???? Robert (who was not a list member a year ago) As far as i know Robert,it's a reference to an odd 'rave' here in the u.s of a,viz, a plaque with an animated fish that was 'moyiom' aware,as soon as anybody came within 10 foot of it it would start singing'take me to the river'......fortunatley most folk got tired of it and they ended up in the garbage can or the attic.Ari Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:09:44 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tony Soprano & the Singing Fish on 1/3/02 6:14 PM, bartvandamme@home at bartvandamme@home.nl wrote: >> That's it. Speaking of Singing Fish, I just recently watched the Sopranos >> episode where that Singing Fish gadget, mentioned here more than a year ago, >> appears - what a nasty piece of work. > > I kinda liked the Soprano's... > No - I meant the fish. The series is great. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:14:46 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 on 1/4/02 1:57 AM, Ari Britt at luvjazzz@yahoo.com wrote: > As far as i know Robert,it's a reference to an odd > 'rave' here in the u.s of a,viz, a plaque with an > animated fish that was 'moyiom' aware,as soon as > anybody came within 10 foot of it it would start > singing'take me to the river'......fortunatley most > folk got tired of it and they ended up in the garbage > can or the attic.Ari Yes - that's the one. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:28:26 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin Press release Circa 1981 In a message dated 04/01/2002 00:16:14 GMT Standard Time, giluz@netvision.net.il writes: > > > As far as i know Robert,it's a reference to an odd > > 'rave' here in the u.s of a,viz, a plaque with an > > animated fish that was 'moyiom' aware,as soon as > > anybody came within 10 foot of it it would start > > singing'take me to the river'......fortunatley most > > folk got tired of it and they ended up in the garbage > > can or the attic.Ari > > Yes - that's the one. > > Oddly enough my Uncle from Toledo Ohio (an Irish Emigrant -as am I - ) sent my Mother & Father a "Singing Fish" about 2 years ago which also gave a rendition of "Take Me To The River" & another fishy sort of song which I can't remember now. Great hilarity in the O'Connell household for about 2 weeks & then nothing. If I recall he flexed his tail & turned his head towards you while he sang ! Only in America ...sadly. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:24:26 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Britt Daniels and Spoon, anyone? >They're from Austin, but I don't get why Paul felt the need to add "Texas" >as an adjective there -- I don't hear a thing twangy or southern or >southwestern, for that matter, in their music. Hi Miles, Hmm, that's funny - they sound definitely southwestern to me. Not country or twangy - mind you. I think it's more of a "rootsy" thing - like the bands that come out of Austin, Texas. Think Meat Puppets, maybe. Or, maybe it's the accent in the voice. And, I hope that describing them as Texan wasn't interpreted as a negative critical comment at all. I was just hoping that it would help place the sound a little bit. I actually found my CD of "A Series of Sneaks", so I'm gonna re-listen. I'll see if they still sound southwestern or not. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:59:26 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] P'o and Desmond Simmons hello fellow Ideal Copyists...i have been listening to the P'o and Desmond Simmons cd over and over today.....for some reason i never realized their brilliance completely...maybe it's the mood i'm in..but these are GREAT!!....forgive me for stating the obvious... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 18:08:52 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] Re: P'o and Desmond Simmons >hello fellow Ideal Copyists...i have been listening to the P'o and >Desmond Simmons cd over and over today.....for some reason i never >realized their brilliance completely...maybe it's the mood i'm in..but >these are GREAT!!....forgive me for stating the obvious... > What else has Desmond done solo? I do like "Alone On Penguin Island" and I'm wondering if he ever released any other CDs. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 21:12:56 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: P'o and Desmond Simmons i wish AC Marias would have kept making music with Bruce and Graham...i really enjoy her voice.....she was kinda cute as well.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 02:35:05 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] my first gripe of the new year! Robert Wrote >Ok, so i get the Cabaret Voltaire - Conform to Deform 3 cd boxset...what a >piece of crap...first off, WHY the live cd?..it sucks and basically throw >away as far as i'm concerned.... It does let the box set down. Its a live set from the Groovy Laidback & Nasty era with the Cabs trying too hard to be 'acid house' friendly with a couple of half assed versions of old songs thrown in. Maybe it will interest certain Cabs fans in another 10-15 years in the same way that post Lou Reed era Velvets stuff is collectable. >second, WHY NOT just put out ALL the >mixes/remixes/ A sides and B sides in chronological order on separate >discs...OH NO! That would make too much sense...they did it all jumbled up so >we would be distracted and not notice certain omissions...such as the fact >that "Safety Zone" is on here but not the A side "Dream Ticket"..how stupid >is that? Dream Ticket is on the 'Original Sound of Sheffield' compilation which is due out this month, along with I think all the A-Sides from the Virgin era. In chronological order. >and i don't believe for one second that these so-called "unreleased >tracks" are even from the Virgin era..i bet Kirk just threw these >together... >i just don't understand why nobody EVER gets comilations right! >Why can't people put these things in complete and chronological order?...i >don't want to be subjected to an uneven listening experience...i hate these >"2001 mixes" cropping up while i am in the middle of a disc that is supposed >to be "Virgin Era" stuff.. Of course the ideal Cabs box set would span 74-90-something and would involve sorting out loads of licensing and copyright issues to get tracks from all the different labels they have used over the years. In true Blue Peter style I can only suggest that anyone who wants a decent CV box set makes their own. Probably best to put The Living Legends, Listen-Up With Cabaret Voltaire, 8 Crepuscule Tracks, The Original Sound of Sheffield, Conform to Deform and a CD-Rs of the best of their 90s output in a box of your own choosing and write your own booklet to go with it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 19:21:42 -0800 (PST) From: "joe morgan - www.diviner.org" Subject: [idealcopy] new monkey rising! hi wire people: my name is Joe. i am from North Carolina in the US. i discovered wire by accident in adolescence, dredging up old mute/enigma casettes in the dollar bin at camelot music. i have been continually astonished and thrilled ever since! i look forward very much to discussions with all of you. joe HEEEEEY PAUL! ===== www.diviner.org "...because regular grape juice isn't strong enough!" Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:25:29 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] new monkey rising! In a message dated 1/3/02 9:22:25 PM Central Standard Time, urilliasekt@yahoo.com writes: > hi wire people: > > my name is Joe. i am from North Carolina in the US. > > i discovered wire by accident in adolescence, dredging > up old mute/enigma casettes in the dollar bin at > camelot music. i have been continually astonished and > thrilled ever since! > > i look forward very much to discussions with all of > you. > > joe > > HEEEEEY PAUL! > AMAZING! that's exactly how i started! The Camelot $1.00 bin!!! i also found cabaret Voltaire stuff in there as well! those were good times as a youngster...discovering all that great music!...glad to have you aboard! Robert Lynn (St.Louis, MO USA) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 22:55:18 EST From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] wmo and ~swim cd numbering just to clarify - wmo released 11 discs, wm7 was the never released colin newman outtakes disc right? and why did swim jump from wm22 (symptoms) to wm29 (silo - alloy) so fast..plus the next symptoms disc is wm32...does this mean that there are 7 or 8 album in the works for swim? they were couple numbers missing before but never this much of a gap. yeah, it may be superficial, but it annoys me. ~michael ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V5 #3 *****************************