From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #369 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, December 4 2001 Volume 04 : Number 369 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT - i hate hippies me (mention the Lord of the Rings just once more...) [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re: This Way, my Shivering Man [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] My sympathy to you Brits [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Syd [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Best Gigs of 2001 (OT and Bad Language!) [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Best Gigs of 2001 (OT and Bad Language!) [bartvanDamme <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 03:13:26 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - i hate hippies me (mention the Lord of the Rings just once more...) - --- Steve Loubert wrote: > From: John Roberts > > > I really fail to see the attraction to Pink > Floyd's > > music. It sounds so plodding, pedestrian and > totally > > boring. > > Well I've always felt that Pink Floyd's early stuff > was very similar to > Chairs/154 era Wire, and I like them both for the > same reasons. When I > listen to both, I hear cool music made by inventive > musicians who can do > great things with minimal technical skills. I hear > catchy, compelling music > made using nonmusical and even anti-musical sounds. > I think they moved away > from that over time. The songs got longer, with > less and less of the > unusual noises. By the time The Wall came out, > there was nothing left of > interest to me. I see what you're saying with regards unusual noises and minimal technical skills. However, I still don't see the similarity. Wire were and always will be for me, pop art. Whether poppy or arty there is always an underlying naivety there. Floyd were and always will be for me, more geared towards trying to sound and look thoroughly professional. No Wire solo artist ever stuck a woman's arse on the cover of an album in an effort to shift sales either. 8-) John Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 05:55:24 -0600 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Wire mention in Nov. 2001 Vanity Fair "snide" - hehehe Can't wait to see Lord of the Rings when it comes out. Bought advance tickets! NP> Genesis - Nursery Cryme charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 14:30:48 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re:George Gill There are a couple of entries for `G. Gill' in the Watford phone book ... does anyone know if he still lives in the area?? He needs to be spoken to by someone. My favourite thing about Viz has always been the spoof ads for sentimental gewgaws - dolls, plates, pottery models, etc. Even better, they now actually produce some of these items for sale - e.g. the `Princess Diana full english breakfast plate of hope' (with the dead Princess's face beaming down from the egg yolk) is yours for 20 squids. Ideal xmas gift for those difficult to buy for rellies. Which reminds me - had a great conversation with my aunt (70) over the w/e re the sad demise of George Harrison - she said she'd never realised that GH's first wife had run off with `Eric Clapper'. Classic. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:45:25 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: This Way, my Shivering Man >From: RLynn9@aol.com >> re: this way, my shivering man... so what's the verdict? is the cd worth >> having? i could probably answer this myself...if you can't get the vinyl, >> the >> cd will do, right? i've never heard them, but i imagine they're very >> worthwhile. >> > >The cd is of course worth having..but if you can, find the vinyl so you can >hear the great tracks we have been talking about! I'll basically second that. I would say just wait until you find the vinyl. Unlike the full-length cds, the vinyl versions are not rare or overly-expensive. Michael Flaherty PS to Robert: Jeck's VC 4 is easy to find right now. Have you tried forced exposure? (www.fe.org) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:44:11 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:George Gill Howard, << There are a couple of entries for `G. Gill' in the Watford phone book ... does anyone know if he still lives in the area?? He needs to be spoken to by someone.<< Who knows, he may have a lucrative gig on the punk nostalgia safety-pins-in-a-basket circuit! >>My favourite thing about Viz has always been the spoof ads for sentimental gewgaws - dolls, plates, pottery models, etc. Even better, they now actually produce some of these items for sale - e.g. the `Princess Diana full english breakfast plate of hope' (with the dead Princess's face beaming down from the egg yolk) is yours for 20 squids. Ideal xmas gift for those difficult to buy for rellies.<< Excellent, especially "the life of christ in cats" plate, though I suspect they haven't shifted too many of them! One day those things will turn up on antiques roadshow. While the cartoon strips may have slipped recently in Viz, they still hit the spot with their "read and despair" spoofs of educational kids' comics (like Look and Learn") where they explain how newspapers, or football teams, or the stock exchange works. The advertising industry one was fantastic. >>Which reminds me - had a great conversation with my aunt (70) over the w/e re the sad demise of George Harrison - she said she'd never realised that GH's first wife had run off with `Eric Clapper'. Classic. >> Did she then go into great detail about her "motions", like Mrs Brady? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:12:31 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: This Way, my Shivering Man In a message dated 12/3/01 9:41:19 AM Central Standard Time, mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us writes: << Michael Flaherty PS to Robert: Jeck's VC 4 is easy to find right now. Have you tried forced exposure? (www.fe.org) >> THANKS Michael! i'll check it out.... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:58:38 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father Hi everyone, Hey - I was trolling thru my vinyl stash, and guess what I found? (Yeah, you've already figured it out from the title..) I'm playing the Fall's cover version of "A Day In The Life" right now. So far, not a lot of extra "uh" or "ah" added to the words. (^_^) Cheers-uh, Paul-ah ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:35:17 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire mention in Nov. 2001 Vanity Fair In a message dated 12/3/01 5:56:52 AM Central Standard Time, shop@wiremailorder.com writes: << NP> Genesis - Nursery Cryme charles >> always been sort of curious about this lp...anything to compare it to? i am pretty familiar with most early Genesis except this one... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:05:18 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] My sympathy to you Brits To my fellow Ideal Copyists from England...You have my deepest sympathies for being drawn into the group of death for the World Cup this summer...Argentina, Sweden, and Nigeria ? WOW.....but hey, my USA team probably won't make it past Portugal, Poland, and South Korea....I'll be rooting for you guys though...my picks to make it out of the first round: group A- France and Uruguay group B- Paraguay and Spain group C- Brazil and Costa Rica group D- Poland and Portugal group E- Germany and Ireland group F- England and Argentina group G- Italy and Mexico group H- Russia and Belgium anyone else have any predictions? how do they decide who plays who in the next round?.... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:04:58 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone I am not at home at the moment... but I think that it was Kidney Bingos in Orange vinyl (???) and Ahead in multicolor vinyl (with a grey base)... I think that I may still have an extra one of the Orange vinyl. I have never heard or seen the Mannequin 12in, but I think that it was included in Kevin's book and the RC article. cheers!-f. At 11:45 AM -0500 12/1/01, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 29/11/01 18:05:59 GMT Standard Time, adrift@endlessblue.com writes: Does anyone know if the German colored vinyls for the 12in's were very limited? I have two of them. ///////which ones are these? never seen those. nor a mannequin 12" for that matter. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:08:55 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: [idealcopy] Make 'dat body do some searchin' If you're looking for a nice free font that looks slightly like the dot-matrix-like print on the back of Ideal Copy (though it isn't italic - you'll all have to do that part yourself), you might check out "Fake Receipt" by Ray Larabie: http://www.larabiefonts.com/fonts/f.html I'm sure there are lots of others out there too, but I like this guy because the snippets of text he uses to illustrate some of his fonts are so easily recognizable to fans of 80's UK post-punk bands. Also: XTC fans will recall Viz comix as the home of Buster Gonad and his Extraordinarily Large Testicles, inspiration for the "Bags of Fun With Buster" single... Sheer genius! (Especially if you're really into scrotum jokes!) John "shouldn't one be more grateful for still being alive?" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 00:13:56 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father on 12/3/01 9:58 PM, Paul Pietromonaco at paulp@wrq.com wrote: > I'm playing the Fall's cover version of "A Day In The Life" right now. A Fall classic - the only reason why I bought SPNMF in the first place. I later bought the Fall Collection, which is a nice enough collection, but has Day in the Life in the last track, I think. The CD had some sort of digital distortion which intensified quite significantly during the song. I later 'borrowed' another copy from a friend of mine, and it's still in my collection, next to the fucked-up one. The moral of the story is: Don't lend me any CD's. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 00:43:57 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Syd on 12/1/01 6:26 PM, ian.s. jackson at iansjackson@hotmail.com wrote: > Bart wrote :- >> So you're not into Syd either then eh? > > this may surprise you but... > actually i really like what i've heard of Syd's solo stuff but i really need > to hear the lp's 'properly' now... I think it's time someone should stop treating Syd Barrett as a Pink Floyd member. Syd Barrett was a brilliant songwriter whose backing band was later joined by Dave Gilmour to form Pink Floyd. The fact that the first band's name was also Pink Floyd has no significant relation to the second band. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:51:38 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My sympathy to you Brits Robert, << To my fellow Ideal Copyists from England...You have my deepest sympathies for being drawn into the group of death for the World Cup this summer...Argentina, Sweden, and Nigeria ? WOW.....<< Actually it's worse than it looks. Sweden are at best mediocre and Nigeria are not the team they were. In fact they only just scraped in via the African group. Argentina are a good side, though. As we proved against Germany, England are capable of remarkable performances... >>but hey, my USA team probably won't make it past Portugal, Poland, and South Korea....<< You have two hopes, None and Bob. >>I'll be rooting for you guys though...my picks to make it out of the first round: group A- France and Uruguay group B- Paraguay and Spain group C- Brazil and Costa Rica group D- Poland and Portugal group E- Germany and Ireland group F- England and Argentina group G- Italy and Mexico group H- Russia and Belgium >> Costa Rica? don't underestimate the Turks, filthy diving cheats that they are. And having seen how dire Mexico were against England earlier in the year I'd see them propping up that group. Ecuador look quite handy, and Croatia were the surprise team in 98, thrashing the Germans... >>anyone else have any predictions?<< One "big" team always self-destructs. On present form my money would be on Brazil, but Spain are perennial underachievers internationally and you can imagine them coming unstuck. >> how do they decide who plays who in the next round?.... http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/en/t/s/g.html This will explain as best it can!! From England's point of view, winning the group means a much easier passage through (on paper) as coming second will probably mean France in the second stage. Though I don't expct France to be nearly as good as in 98 or Euro 2000. A dark horse? Italy. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:07:47 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Syd Giluz, >> think it's time someone should stop treating Syd Barrett as a Pink Floyd member. Syd Barrett was a brilliant songwriter whose backing band was later joined by Dave Gilmour to form Pink Floyd. The fact that the first band's name was also Pink Floyd has no significant relation to the second band.<< You're starting to sound like punk rockin' Johnny Roberts!!! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 01:50:01 +0000 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Best Gigs of 2001 (OT and Bad Language!) OK. As Graeme isn't here and we are allowed to do 'Hornby' style lists without fear of retribution from that silver tongued devil, What were the best and worst live shows y'all saw this year? Mine fave shows are : Low at Manchester University last week: Spellbinding. One of the most beautiful and intense gigs you can see, but without the need for volume...deafeningly quiet if you know what I mean. One of those gigs where if someone coughs, or rings up a beer on the till the whole room can hear it!. And they played a wonderfully fudged and un-planned encore....people shouted for something from the Christmas LP so they played Jingle Bells instead! Just save any conversation for after the gig kids! And despite being the wrong side of 25 I bought the T-Shirt! Last time I did that I bought a 154 T-Shirt at the last Wire gig! And those harmonies! Oh boy! Ahem...Spiritualized at Cambridge Corn Exchange in October. I know you all hate them but they are brilliant live. I've seen them loads of times and I think I enjoyed this more because I was watching the reactions of my two (female/Icelandic) companions who had never seen them before and were absolutely spellbound by the whole thing. Anyway they can still send shivers down my spine...the band that is. See them live before you write them off! Two gigs I wished I seen but were cancelled because of incompetent Manchester promoters. Plaid and Mouse on Mars. (hey Robert!) Worst gigs I've seen all year: 1. Mull Historical Society. I was expecting them to reflect the eerie, pastoral whimsy of their Wyatt meets Beach Boys LP. Unfortunately it seems that they want to be the Stereophonics and pull lots of rubbish rock-god poses. The f**king stupid twats. I bigged-up their LP on this list. I take it all back. They suck! 2. A band who my band supported at a pub in Leeds .I've forgotten the name of the band but they were on a bit of 'Commitments' vibe (i.e the film). They played Mustang f**king Sally and various other well worn 'classics'. They dedicated a song to Elvis Costello for no apparent reason, and then dedicated a cover of Dylans 'Maggies Farm' to Thatcher....they were clearly living in another decade to the rest of us. I think they thought they were at a Red Wedge benefit. Needless to say, the audience loved them but showed their dissaproval at our futuristic, computer generated soundscapes by talking very loudly......presumably about the GLC and the Miners Strike. Last time I ever play for a bunch of retro bastards who are stuck in 1983. We were f**king great as well! - ------------------------------------------------------------------ More Reasons! www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 02:38:58 +0000 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) Ultramarine/Cabs/Bunnymen/Wyatt/Yeah! Robert wrote after Paul c.d wrote: >paul c.d. wrote: > > in the cd player: ultramarine-every man and woman is a star > > >Thanks for reminding me of a great cd! ...I loved Ultramarine! I saw them >live in Chicago opening for Orbital, Aphex Twin and Meat Beat Manifesto at >the NASA event... >.gonna go listen to that cd right now! Oooh yeah ! That is still one of my top 10 records ever! A lost classic of the early 1990s that one. For those who don't know, Ultramarine were a terrific early ambient/electronica type band around the same time as Orbital, FSOL, Screamadelica-era Primal Scream/The Orb and that lot. They had a way with a melody and and chose very imaginative sources for their sampling. They sampled the likes of Echo & The Bunnymen, A Certain Ratio and Kevin Ayers on this record...to headspinning effect. Gorgeous and Wonderful stuff and a huge, huge influence on my own music. >Did you ever hear the >follow up: "United Kingdoms" ? It wasn't as good but had some Robert Wyatt >vocals...check it out! Another beautiful record, Wyatt adds some great scat vocals. Darn clever stuff. A couple of very nifty samples of early Cabaret Voltaire beats on this one too. Wyatt and Richard H Kirk! What a great combination! They kind of lost their way after this which is a shame. Still, if I haven't had heard this I would never have got myself a copy of Robert Wyatts brilliant Rock Bottom! - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every Man and Woman Should Own an Ultramarine Record www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 21:52:44 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT) Ultramarine/Cabs/Bunnymen/Wyatt/Yeah! every man... and united kingdoms are the only two i have, plus a couple of tracks on comps. so, the post united kingdoms stuff is off? hrm, maybe i'll stick with what i've got. i was thinking of hunting down some more. - -paul c.d. In a message dated 12/3/01 9:42:01 PM, timrobinson@cwcom.net writes: >Robert wrote after Paul c.d wrote: > >>paul c.d. wrote: >> > in the cd player: ultramarine-every man and woman is a star >> > >>Thanks for reminding me of a great cd! ...I loved Ultramarine! I saw them >>live in Chicago opening for Orbital, Aphex Twin and Meat Beat Manifesto >at >>the NASA event... >>.gonna go listen to that cd right now! > >Oooh yeah ! That is still one of my top 10 records ever! >A lost classic of the early 1990s that one. For those who don't know, >Ultramarine were a terrific early ambient/electronica type band around >the >same time as Orbital, FSOL, Screamadelica-era Primal Scream/The Orb and >that lot. They had a way with a melody and and chose very imaginative >sources for their sampling. They sampled the likes of Echo & The Bunnymen, >A Certain Ratio and Kevin Ayers on this record...to headspinning effect. >Gorgeous and Wonderful stuff and a huge, huge influence on my own music. > >>Did you ever hear the >>follow up: "United Kingdoms" ? It wasn't as good but had some Robert Wyatt >>vocals...check it out! > >Another beautiful record, Wyatt adds some great scat vocals. Darn clever >stuff. A couple of very nifty samples of early Cabaret Voltaire beats on >this one too. Wyatt and Richard H Kirk! What a great combination! They >kind >of lost their way after this which is a shame. Still, if I haven't had >heard this I would never have got myself a copy of Robert Wyatts brilliant >Rock Bottom! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 23:11:19 EST From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] Sgt. Pepper Knew My Father giluz@netvision.net.il a ecrit: << The CD had some sort of digital distortion which intensified quite significantly during the song. I later 'borrowed' another copy from a friend of mine, and it's still in my collection, next to the fucked-up one. The moral of the story is: Don't lend me any CD's. >> Either that, or the cd presser puked after having run halfway thru. I can sympathize. ;Q I don't mind a car hitting me, but I do mind a driver trying to hit me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 09:17:45 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My sympathy to you Brits > To my fellow Ideal Copyists from England...You have my deepest sympathies for > being drawn into the group of death for the World Cup this > summer...Argentina, Sweden, and Nigeria ? WOW.....but hey, my USA team > probably won't make it past Portugal, Poland, and South Korea....I'll be > rooting for you guys though...my picks to make it out of the first round: > > group A- France and Uruguay > group B- Paraguay and Spain > group C- Brazil and Costa Rica > group D- Poland and Portugal > group E- Germany and Ireland > group F- England and Argentina > group G- Italy and Mexico > group H- Russia and Belgium > > anyone else have any predictions? how do they decide who plays who in the > next round?.... > > Robert Lynn I'm still pining over the Dutch team not making it ot the WC wich is a bloody disgrace! "On paper" they have one of the best teams, with players in the "major" major leagues of Italie, Spain and England. They proved to be a binch of overpayed twats! I think they should be very much ashamed of themselves. No fun AT ALL! [well that's enough drama, Bart] Well, I'll just support England instead, ok? [and indeed, you're gonna need it] Sorry americans, but I just know too little about your team. Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:04:51 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Lali Puna Hi Music experts, has anyone ever heard of Lali Puna. I downloaded a few songs from morpheus and they sound like a 2001 edition of the young marble giants. Any information would be welcome ... regards, FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:11:46 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Best Gigs of 2001 (OT and Bad Language!) Tim wrote: > OK. As Graeme isn't here and we are allowed to do 'Hornby' style lists > without fear of retribution from that silver tongued devil You must miss Graeme terribly, Tim, as you speak of him so often. "Silver tongued devil" eh? Hmmm... ;-) I'll think about this year's gigs... Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #369 *******************************