From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #367 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, December 2 2001 Volume 04 : Number 367 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] Ideal Copyists mojo [bartvanDamme ] RE: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing ["Eric Klaver" ] Re: [idealcopy] Floyd/Viz/ ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] the Pink Flag of Groningen ["janjnoorda" ] [idealcopy] Re: OT - The Fall, Manchester Poly, Nov 80... ["ian.s. jackso] Re: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT - The Fall, Manchester Poly, Nov 80... [giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing Hi all, I was just searching under "Rodney Shelden Fehsenfeld" the guy who designed the IdealCopy font and he appeares to have made more Wire-related ones: "Monkey Caught Stealing" http://www.garagefonts.com/fontframes/2monkey.html Further information: http://www.philsfonts.com/phils/sections/insite50a1.html The guy does music as well. It's called Comma.[it figures!] Familiar? http://www.philsfonts.com/phils/sections/specialrsf.html The formentioned IdealCopy-font is at: http://www.philsfonts.com/phils/sectionssep97/typegf1.html Does anyone know this guy? Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:55:34 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ideal Copyists mojo Robert wrote: > There's a four volume Charles Burns collection?? How did I miss this? > > Yeah, I dig all these people's work, and that of their fellow travelers. Jim > Woodring's stuff is just so fucking wierd it can work only on the > subconscious level--to me, that's the best, that's what I'm most looking > for. Come to think of it, that's what most appeals to me about Wire. Funny eh, how it all seems to fit? Lotsa Wire-fans here that dig a certain style of comics. I wonder how that would work with films? Literature? Food? DRUGS? SEX? :-P > I got to meet Art Spiegelman once. A very cool guy; a non-stop smoker. Very rare to find someone who's double talented on such a high level. His storytelling technique is pure literature and his art quite brilliant. [shame about the smoking though - cough] Cheers... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 08:03:33 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing My wife and I both worked for FontShop (an international company now based in San Francisco) and I am quite familiar with Garage, distributor of "novelty" fonts. I checked out "Monkey Caught Stealing" (thanks for the link bart) and IMHEO the font lacks. I can't believe people sell five versions of a font where the designer has done nothing to distinguish one style from the next. I can click a button in MSTurd and make a font italic-- it doesn't mean that it is a good, proper or designed italic. When I first heard of these fonts I thought that perhaps Brody's Studio may have produced them specifically for Wire album designs, but he is an admirer. He created fonts used by RayGun. Has Wire ever appeared in the mag? Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:56:07 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing Eric wrote: > My wife and I both worked for FontShop (an international company now based > in San Francisco) and I am quite familiar with Garage, distributor of > "novelty" fonts. I checked out "Monkey Caught Stealing" (thanks for the link > bart) and IMHEO the font lacks. I can't believe people sell five versions of > a font where the designer has done nothing to distinguish one style from the > next. I can click a button in MSTurd and make a font italic-- it doesn't > mean that it is a good, proper or designed italic. You're absolutely right, though I haven't looked at the fonts in a more professional manner, as I SHOULD have, being an artdirector/graphic designer [blush]. I don't even like these fonts as much as I was surprised to see them connected to our beloved Wire. BTW, I see lots of "novelty" fonts suffering the same lack of design. > When I first heard of these fonts I thought that perhaps Brody's Studio may > have produced them specifically for Wire album designs, but he is an > admirer. He created fonts used by RayGun. Has Wire ever appeared in the mag? > Eric in Toronto Don't know if they did - I'm not familiar with the mag. [I just asked them via email] I know Brody did Manscape, wich I sorta liked, but has he done more for Wire? Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 15:26:56 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Syd Bart wrote :- >So you're not into Syd either then eh? this may surprise you but... actually i really like what i've heard of Syd's solo stuff but i really need to hear the lp's 'properly' now... plus 'Piper...' (which i haven't heard for ages), in fact, i entered 'Opel' on a recent playlist. the 'total-Floyd bias' period was broken for me, many moons ago (haha...), by John Peel playing the Barrett Peel Sessions which are irresistible IMO... i really enjoyed the Syd Omnibus programme, must get a copy. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 16:28:40 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Floyd/Viz/ John Roberts wrote :- re Floyd... >I'm in the Ian Jackson party I'm afraid. hahaha...why doesn't that surprise me???? >Viz. Imagine if you can the crudest drawn child ever >with his mother's head entering the frame of the >picture. Mother: 'Would you like your tea dearest?' >Child: 'Twat on a brick.' If like me you find that >funny, you'll like Viz. nice example john, my fave bits of early Viz were always the 'one-box' ones like Rude Kid, my favourite 'Kid' response was... 'Piss up a rope, fuck-stick...' the 'man goes to the doctor' ones were great as well, i kept one of them stuck to the side of my hi-fi for years... 'Doctor, i think i've eaten something that disagrees with me...' speech bubble from man's stomach... 'no you haven't...' ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:43:41 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] In a message dated 29/11/01 19:57:40 GMT Standard Time, luvjazzz@yahoo.com writes: > Paul wrote://// i really hate the wall lp , i just > can't get into it at all. every > time i've been to the states i hear comfortably numb > about 50 times , > which is around 49 too many. > Don't know when you were last here Paul,or where,or to > which radio station you listen to(unless it was an > 'oldies" station) but i haven't heard p.fthank god)on > the radio for several years.i listen to 'student'(read > alternative/'punk')and jazz stations .Ari > > ////// well you can get this sort of station in very big cities but i've > done some big driving trips over there (california/arizona/nevada , deep > south , new england) and mostly all i can find is classic white rock > stations. ok for a bit (i never hear that stuff in the uk) but the same 30 > songs get thrashed to death. and above all comfortably fucking numb. john , you are such an old punk rocker :-) i used to hate all prog with a vengeance but early floyd (not the wall , absolutely not) has grown on me over the years. this certainly does not mean i am softening my stance on phil collins , who still must die. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 11:45:05 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone In a message dated 29/11/01 18:05:59 GMT Standard Time, adrift@endlessblue.com writes: > > Does anyone know if the German colored vinyls for the 12in's were > very limited? I have two of them. > > ///////which ones are these? never seen those. nor a mannequin 12" for that matter. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 20:39:26 +0100 From: "janjnoorda" Subject: [idealcopy] the Pink Flag of Groningen Went up to Groningen this afternoon and spoke with one of the members of the band who did the Pink Flag copy last august. And they are trying to this again. It will probably happen again round X-mas in RKZ, formerly old hospital which is changed in to a living apartment place. Kraakpand. I do not know the english word. Bart do you know maybe a word for this. Anyway. Bought some nice ceedees. The first Magnetophone on 4AD The (O)acid box on raster noton with Carsten Nicolai, COH and the Faust ceedee Ravvivando Saw also a lot of To Rococo Rot stuff. Next time probably They are from Leer I believe. Just over the German border near Groningen. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 16:42:22 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Floyd/Viz/ Ian, << 'Doctor, i think i've eaten something that disagrees with me...' speech bubble from man's stomach... 'no you haven't...' >> That's one of my all-time favourites, as well as one from Private Eye, a two-frame cartoon thus: First frame - small child in school classroom, drawing crude picture of woman with one eye bigger than the other, single front tooth, captioned 'Mummy'. Second frame - children running towards waiting parents at school gates, one of whom has head precisely as in child's drawing. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:43:39 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing - ----- Original Message ----- From: "bartvanDamme" To: "Eric Klaver" Cc: "wire-news" Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Monkey Caught Stealing > Eric wrote: > > > My wife and I both worked for FontShop (an international company now based > > in San Francisco) and I am quite familiar with Garage, distributor of > > "novelty" fonts. I checked out "Monkey Caught Stealing" (thanks for the link > > bart) and IMHEO the font lacks. I can't believe people sell five versions of > > a font where the designer has done nothing to distinguish one style from the > > next. I can click a button in MSTurd and make a font italic-- it doesn't > > mean that it is a good, proper or designed italic. > > You're absolutely right, though I haven't looked at the fonts in a more > professional manner, as I SHOULD have, being an artdirector/graphic designer > [blush]. > I don't even like these fonts as much as I was surprised to see them > connected to our beloved Wire. > BTW, I see lots of "novelty" fonts suffering the same lack of design. > > > When I first heard of these fonts I thought that perhaps Brody's Studio may > > have produced them specifically for Wire album designs, but he is an > > admirer. He created fonts used by RayGun. Has Wire ever appeared in the mag? > > > Eric in Toronto > > Don't know if they did - I'm not familiar with the mag. [I just asked them > via email] > I know Brody did Manscape, wich I sorta liked, but has he done more for > Wire? I do own the book the Graphic Language of Neville Brody vol. 2 compiled by Jon Wozencroft In the book is mentioned a description of the artwork for Manscape and Life in the manscape This is what has been written for MANSCAPE: On their first LP PINK FLAG, Wire proposed that if you explore an idea once, why repeat it? Their policy has been an inspiration ever since. Manscape was the last LP cover Brody was directly involved with. The design was done over two months at the end of 1989 - our intention was to create artworks that not only indicated the scale of Wire's new work and its title, but extended the limited parameters of the compact disc, packaging format. Everything had gone to the CD, its badly-designed jewel case and basic booklet (at the outset, often no more than a thin double-sided card) seen as secondary to "better quality" sound. TOUCH had already released two alternatives to this format, and for Wire we carried this forward, supported by their company, MUTE. LP, CD and cassette each featured a different treatment of an image provided by the group, a scratched-out postcard of the main roads leading to a collonade in Lisbon's City centre. This we turned into an absurd UFO-like object: a mode of transport to who knows where... the decay of science reality, not the dream of science fiction. Different sets of information were processed by either computer, photocopier or fax. Brody used FreeHand 1.0 to design one side of the CD poster; I laid out the other and worked on the print production. The collaboration reflected the collision of analogue and digital thinking, new and old techniques - and how in practise they could be combined. Different paper stocks, rough and smooth, were used for each element of the CD package - Kraft board for the outer case, wrapping paper for the poster and coated cartridge for the booklet. The record cover was printed on matt art board using different Pantone colours to the CD, including a slate grey that gave the scratched-out lines of the processed postcard the texture of blackboard and chalk. and this for LIFE IN THE MANSCAPE Erase then cut and paste, from here to another place. The lyrics to Patterns of Behaviour reflected Wire's own transition from analogue to digital recording processes, which they contrasted with songs about the storming of the Berlin Wall (Stampede), social breakdown in Britain (Children of Groceries) and personal catharsis (Torch it!). Technology, society and the individual collide at the centre. Life in the Manscape was an all-formats single to be released currently, but it was shelved by MUTE and only appeared in the USA as a CD. The cover image selected by the group''s guitarist, Bruce Gilbert, was digitised using the studio's recently acquired black-and-white scanner. Designed with Jon Wozencroft. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:39:46 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Floyd/Viz/Larson In a message dated 12/1/01 4:43:36 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >First frame - small child in school classroom, drawing crude picture of >woman >with one eye bigger than the other, single front tooth, captioned 'Mummy'. >Second frame - children running towards waiting parents at school gates, >one >of whom has head precisely as in child's drawing. reminds me of a far side by gary larson. one frame-shows pablo picasso (elementary school age) standing in his living room with his mom, dad, and baby sibling (all of whom have faces like picasso's cubist portraits). mom is holding pablo's school report card. caption reads "i don't believe it! pablo got an 'F' in art! well i'm going right down to that school first thing tomorrow to speak with that teacher face to face!" - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 02:06:51 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Gigs From the PostEverything site: WIRE - FOR ALL TOMORROWS PARTIES The All Tomorrow's Parties website has confirmed that Wire has been added to the line up for the Camber Sands 2002 version of this rolling postmodern version of a rockfestival. It is also rumoured that Wire's frontman and swim /PE dude - Colin Newman - will be spinning some discs at some point during the "Pontinfest" although this is not yet confirmed by the ATP organisation. Wire themselves have been hard at work on their new album slated for a 2002 release. Keep an eye out for special pink flag editions. More than likely there will be more gigs during 2002. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 00:54:35 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OT - The Fall, Manchester Poly, Nov 80... I wrote :- ><< i was there too Mark!! an all-dayer also featuring Orange Juice and > >>Josef K MarkB wrote :- >Josef K were a no-show as they were re-recording their album. I >remember >the Au Pairs and the Delmontes were also on the bill. confession time...ahem, me and a mate had to get off from that gig early, because we had tickets to see The Jam at the Apollo that night!! and all this time, i've been regretting missing Josef K...now i can spend the rest of my life regretting that i missed The Au Pairs!! I wrote :- > >>as i recall, it was a CAN of ale that got lobbed at Smith and > it hit him full on the forehead. Kay Carroll got to the offender >first >and twatted him, then Smith actually walked off stage-right, and >went >round the back and battered him... << then MarkB wrote :- >Different to how I remember it - the crowd all pulled back to create a >'boxing ring' for MES to lamp the bloke - he then ran off and Kay >Carroll >clobbered him again. It was during The North will Rise >again... KC was on >the mixing desk with Grant Showbiz. you may well be right on this one...memory...vague...i could well have been drunk...or something... then MarkB asked re : Alan/a Pelay >Is he/she still around? no idea, whatsoever...probably still making guest compere appearances around the Manchester area... ian.s.j. (what really went on there...we only have this excerpt...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 03:28:57 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ Mark Bursa wrote after John Wrote: At 04:30 01/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: > >>Viz. Imagine if you can the crudest drawn child ever > with his mother's head entering the frame of the > picture. Mother: 'Would you like your tea dearest?' > Child: 'Twat on a brick.' > >Or 'Soapy tit wank' Or 'Grannies Pubes, You Whore!' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 11:25:58 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: OT - The Fall, Manchester Poly, Nov 80... on 12/2/01 3:54 AM, ian.s. jackson at iansjackson@hotmail.com wrote: >(what really went on there...we only have this excerpt...) I always thought that was the best description for any fall gig or album. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #367 *******************************