From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #366 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, December 1 2001 Volume 04 : Number 366 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] hopefully if i get my radio show [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] comix [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. [bartvanDamme ] [idealcopy] Re:radio show [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] George ["ian.s. jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Comics... [bartvanDamme ] [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ [bartvanDamme ] [idealcopy] Philip Jeck... [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] George ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] Comics... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] ["Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] hopefully if i get my radio show op 29-11-2001 21:34 schreef RLynn9@aol.com op RLynn9@aol.com: > Hello Ideal Copyists! Any of you guys have any suggestions for a title for my > late night ambient/electronic/avant garde/musique concrete/experimental radio > show? > > Robert Lynn So you got the job Robert? Cheers man! Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:12:57 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] ot-so farewell then George Harrison R.I.P. 'love one another' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:37:50 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Comics... Let's not be nationalistic about the comics-issue. After cavemen and Egyptians in the history of art there cartoonlike drawings to be found in lots of cultures and countries. The question is, when do we start calling them comics. Visual narratives have been there for a long time but it wasn't untill [american] Richard Fenton's [The Yellow Kid, in 1896] use of text-balloons that all ingredients for modern-day comics came together. You have to draw the line somwhere, don't you? But it's a bit like asking where and when rock 'n roll started, isn't it? Some will say with Fats Domino and some will say in Africa or Ireland. [Africans saying: you yanks stole our great artform- hehe] In Holland e.g. people for a long time thought [and some still do!] it wasn't Gutenberg who invented book-printing but Dutch Laurens Jansz Coster. History is just littered with such examples. I kinda like it that way... Cheers! Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:50:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] comix If some of you guize think comix aren't art you've never read R.Crumb..Ari Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:54:28 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. > Bart, > > << Don't know VIZ though... >> > > Describing Viz to foreigners is a bit like explaining cricket to Americans. > It's a comic in the style of the Beano, aimed at adults, whose content is a > blend of biting satire and the crudest, most childish form of toilet humour. > Knowledge of old British comic traditions are essential. A work of genius, > though its absolute peak was about 10 years ago. > > Mark Mark, I checked out the site: http://www.viz.co.uk and was not blown away by it. I realize I am totally without context here, but I need great artwork to lure me in... To me it looks a bit like what Mad was in the 70's [wich is fine when you're 15 years old] "Old British comic traditions" what would that be then? ;-) Sorry & Cheers! Bart [gad I'm old!] bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:01:56 -0600 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] WIREMAILORDER.COM - FINAL CHANCE TO ORDER It's the LAST DAY EVER to order from the website www.wiremailorder.com place your orders with haste! and tell your friends, this is it. thanks charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:02:22 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot-so farewell then > George Harrison > > R.I.P. Yeah, poor George... joining his mate John again... Halfway till Beatles reunion now... Cheers! Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:57:28 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re:radio show Robert, why not call the radio show `Pink Void'? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:10:21 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] George my favourite Beatle... don't want to get corny... at some point today, i'll play 'Within You, Without You' 'Blue Jay Way' and probably 'Think For Yourself' at the very least. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:58:13 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Comics... > Edward Gorey is amazing! and a great influence on some of my favorite comic > artists like Richard Sala... > > Robert Heeey, glad he is mentioned too! I'm a huge fan! Great site also: http://www.richardsala.com [excellent roll-overs] Cheers! Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 05:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ Has someone really left the list on account of some defamatory comments regarding Pink Floyd? Is this what we fought the punk rock wars for? I'm in the Ian Jackson party I'm afraid. If I live my years without ever hearing the Wall or see a Roger Waters concept gig (maaaaaan) I'll die a happy man. I'm sorry if this offends people but it has to be said: Pink Floyd are absolutely total f*cking shite, end of story, no argument. What next? The reappraisal of Phil Collins and bastard bastard bastard Genesis? Rick Wakeman - a misconceived genius? You lot ought to be ashamed of yourselves. 8-) Viz. Imagine if you can the crudest drawn child ever with his mother's head entering the frame of the picture. Mother: 'Would you like your tea dearest?' Child: 'Twat on a brick.' If like me you find that funny, you'll like Viz. Comics. I gave up on them when I was 18. I left my box of Marvels at a mate's flat I'd been living at. He ripped the covers off of them to decorate his bathroom and used the comics to line his cat litter tray. This included the series of first appearances by the New X Men including issue 100. Needless to say I wasn't pleased. Beano. Bash St Kids. Fall. The definitive rant: Slates. Grotesque: alt country before alt country? Electronic stuff: my fave would be City Dweller from Middle Class Revolt. John Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:11:43 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ John wrote: > Has someone really left the list on account of some > defamatory comments regarding Pink Floyd? Is this > what we fought the punk rock wars for? I'm in the Ian > Jackson party I'm afraid. If I live my years without > ever hearing the Wall or see a Roger Waters concept > gig (maaaaaan) I'll die a happy man. I'm sorry if > this offends people but it has to be said: Pink Floyd > are absolutely total f*cking shite, end of story, no > argument. What next? The reappraisal of Phil Collins > and bastard bastard bastard Genesis? Rick Wakeman - a > misconceived genius? You lot ought to be ashamed of > yourselves. 8-) Ghe ghe... and then the IC-list was suddenly abandoned by loads of [closet] PF-lovers... ghe ghe... [I can almost feel it coming in the air tonight] I'm afraid I sort of brought this on, because of the Syd Barrett documentary i.e. So you're not into Syd either then eh? I'll get me coat... Bart [Jean Claude's psychotic cousin] bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:49:13 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Philip Jeck... Hello all...I was wondering if any of you could help me out...Do any of you have the Phillip Jeck cd "Vinyl Coda IV" ??? If you do would one of you mind making me a cd-r of it? Let me know...thanks Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:26:37 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] George > my favourite Beatle... > don't want to get corny... > at some point today, i'll play 'Within You, Without You' > 'Blue Jay Way' and probably 'Think For Yourself' at the very least. Yes, and let's not forget Colin Newman's cover of Blue Jay Way on Not To. Maybe Colin's favorite, too? I wonder if any of the members of Wire ever met a Beatle? A sad day indeed. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:28:52 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Comics... Robert, << oh? so i guess if it isn't hanging on some wall in some art gallery with a bunch of rich snobs pontificating all over it then it is not considered "art"? >> That's not what I meant. I'm simply saying that the artists who drew the Beano or Spiderman were not setting out to create some high form of "art". Perhaps elevating something as simple as a comic to such status misses its original point? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:29:54 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] >> Run Like Hell is the only decent song on that album.... >> Actually you're right. That is a good one. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:54:00 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall Ian, << hahaha.... er, and, 'Pumpkin Soup and Mashed Potatoes'... ok...APART from those two, it's a fucking great album...;) >> The Fall play Jazz! Irritating track, but you have to admire the man for trying it! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:57:23 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] > >> Run Like Hell is the only decent song on that album.... >> > > Actually you're right. That is a good one. > You should hear the version by the heavy metal band Kittie. It sounds very interesting played by death rockers. Cheers, Paul ...Who got to meet Kittie. Three (rather cute) young ladies who play music and sing like they're possed by Satan...(^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:18:38 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: SOD the Damned/Nico Story Tim wrote: >We used to do this weird semi-goth dance which involved waving ones >arms around as if directing traffic in a sort of gothic way. But hey I was >12! I'm doing the same dance even now and I'm almost 28! BTW, Boston this Saturday and New York this Sunday will be hosts to Volkovtrio shows. Volkovtrio are a vanguarde jazz band frum Russia led by double bass player Sergey Volkov (known by his work in "Vershki da Koreshki" aka "VedaKi"). They are collaborating with Leonid Fedorov - a leader of Russian cult jazz-punk band AuktYon. More information at http://www.auktyon.com Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 13:24:52 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall/Floyd/Viz/ << I'm sorry if this offends people but it has to be said: Pink Floyd are absolutely total f*cking shite, end of story, no argument. What next? The reappraisal of Phil Collins and bastard bastard bastard Genesis? Rick Wakeman - a misconceived genius? You lot ought to be ashamed of yourselves. 8-)<< Righteous maelstrom, cook one!!! Honestly, the Floyd are light years ahed of Yes, ELP and bastard bastard bastard bastard bastard bastard bastard Genesis. >>Viz. Imagine if you can the crudest drawn child ever with his mother's head entering the frame of the picture. Mother: 'Would you like your tea dearest?' Child: 'Twat on a brick.' Or 'Soapy tit wank' >>Comics. I gave up on them when I was 18. I left my box of Marvels at a mate's flat I'd been living at. He ripped the covers off of them to decorate his bathroom and used the comics to line his cat litter tray. This included the series of first appearances by the New X Men including issue 100. Needless to say I wasn't pleased.<< American comics passed me by completely. When I was about 10 I was very much into Commando war stories. Donner und blitzen, Englischer pig-dog! >> Beano. Bash St Kids.<< Peerless. Much funnier than the Dandy. >>Fall. The definitive rant: Slates. << New Puritan? C'n''s mithering? >> Grotesque: alt country before alt country? << MES calls it country'n'northern >>Electronic stuff: my fave would be City Dweller from Middle Class Revolt. >> Worth getting the DOSE featuring MES single (mine is a double CD with umpteen remixes to hear MES hollering over some heavy techno stuff. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 11:22:39 -0800 From: "Prince Of Happiness" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Edward Gorey Bart said: >But speaking of true Brittish draughtsmanship, how about the late, great >and >sometimes even Pythonesk Edward Gorey? Actually, Edward Gorey was from America. Chicago to be precise. "As he grew to adulthood and his works rose to their odd and just prominence, Gorey's own life was often the focus of persistent myths. Two such myths: that he was A) British and B) dead were put to rest with Stephen Schiff's 1992 profile of Gorey in the New Yorker. Still, it's not hard to see why it took more than a copyright date to dispel this particular lore, since his work so frequently evokes other lands in other times. In truth he has traveled abroad only once, to the outer Scottish Isles, whose Gorey-like names -- the Orkneys, the Shetlands and the Outer Hebrides -- must have provided some enticement. Gorey was not born in England, but in Chicago, in 1925. His father was a Catholic newspaperman; his mother, an Episcopalian. They divorced when he was 11, and remarried when Edward was 27. In between marriages to his mother, Gorey's father provided him with a rather glamorous stepmother -- Corrina Mura, the chanteuse who sang "La Marseillaise" in 'Casablanca.' " http://www.salon.com/people/bc/2000/02/15/gorey/ Not that I really care who invented comic books in the first place. It's just a form of human expression. No need to get huffy about it. Sheesh! The Prince of Happiness "Made sacrifice your key to paradise Never mind, take the world by storm Just boogaloo a rhapsody divine"-Roxy Music, "Pyjamarama" http://princeofhappines.tripod.com/thepageofhappines.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:58:31 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: This Way, my Shivering Man >From: "k erickson" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] This Way, my Shivering Man > >i recently purchased the original vinyl and came to the same conclusion. the >compilation cd is criminally deficient....all the tracks left off are essential. >my early favourite is 'There Are' -- what a hauntingly beautiful track! 'Net in >the Feather' is also excellent.... There Are is one of my favorite Wire tracks--solo or together. >are any of Bruce's other cd releases similarly deficient? No--probably because all his other albums were released after cd issues were the standard. He has released some singles and the IBM album w/ Pan Sonic on vinyl only, but that was his/their choice. >From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] This Way, my Shivering Man >Where did you get this from? I'd love to hear these two in the entirety. >Eric Ebay. Bid high, if you really want it. At this point any other issue seems ... unlikely. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:36:41 -0400 From: "k erickson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: This Way, my Shivering Man >From: Michael Flaherty > >>are any of Bruce's other cd releases similarly deficient? > >No--probably because all his other albums were released after cd issues >were the standard. He has released some singles and the IBM album w/ Pan >Sonic on vinyl only, but that was his/their choice. their choice, but not mine. i'm making digital copies of the vinyl-only releases, including the superb IBM collaboration, because cd is my choice. although, i haven't figured out how i'm going to record simultaneously both sides of the Instant Shed ep.... >>From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) > >Where did you get this from? I'd love to hear these two in the entirety. > >Ebay. Bid high, if you really want it. At this point any other issue >seems ... unlikely. the vinyl is available for much less than, say, 33 GBP! kristoph - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:42:40 -0500 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Ideal Copyists mojo There's a four volume Charles Burns collection?? How did I miss this? Yeah, I dig all these people's work, and that of their fellow travelers. Jim Woodring's stuff is just so fucking wierd it can work only on the subconscious level--to me, that's the best, that's what I'm most looking for. Come to think of it, that's what most appeals to me about Wire. I got to meet Art Spiegelman once. A very cool guy; a non-stop smoker. Cheers, Robert Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:28:32 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. In a message dated 11/28/01 1:24:52 PM Central Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << Nowadays I hardly read them anymore though I still dig Charles Burns [he did the Brick by Brick album by Iggy] and Art Spiegelman's ["Maus" is brilliant] work. Know them? >> Ah yes! Charles Burns (along with Jim Woodring, Chris Ware, and Dan Clowes) is one of my favorites of all time! All of his strips have been collected in 4 huge volumes!! the fourth is not out yet.... *************************************************************** This message is intended only for the use of the individuals to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmission in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message and all of its attachments. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #366 *******************************