From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #362 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 28 2001 Volume 04 : Number 362 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT-frank black vs. pixies [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] The Fall in Aldershot-uh [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] The Fall in Aldershot-uh [MarkBursa@aol.c] Re: [idealcopy] OT-our Frank [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] PINK FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] art & money [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-Frenz of The Fall [giluz ] [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT-Frenz of The Fall [Aaron Mandel ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) [RLynn9@a] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) [RLynn9@a] Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] [Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-frank black vs. pixies > 14lb = 1stone > > Americans! > > Mark lb? stone? How many kilograms would that be? ;-) Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:16:25 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cool as Kim Deal, correction >> Bart wrote: >> >>> Crazy text e-mail software... >>> >>> Replace "jointto" with "joint to" in my previous >>> message... >>> >>> (It looked fine in the outgoing mail folder - It wasn't me! Honestlyswearttogodcrossmyheart! Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 05:58:27 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall << And can anyone recommend a couple of more Fall albums? I only have "Live at the Witch Trials" and "Dragnet". >> Well, there are only anoher 87 albums after that ;-) Personal faves are Hex Enduction Hour, Perverted by Language, This Nation's Saving Grace, Extricate, Shift-work and The Unutterable. That spans a good 20 years! However every other Fall fan will disagree with this selection! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:59:37 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned > Hi all: > My name is Sean from Pittsburgh, Wire fan since about '83 I guess. > I just joined last night and have been reading to see if I'll fit in > around here. > "Phantasmagoria" is a GREAT Damned album. Got it on vinyl when it came > out with the bonus 12" of 'Eloise' (if my memory serves me well). > Too bad most of my old vinyl is no more...:-( > I like the Damned's 'neo-goth' era more than I actually (these days > anyway) like their early punk stuff. It was a very funny and well-played > album. I have it on tape now, need to get that on cd one of these days. > Sean Hi Sean and welcome... For me Machine Gun Ettiquette is definitly my fav Damned album, but fav song would be New Rose [my first ever punk-single] The whole Goth-thing turned me off the Damned actually. It was funny, but it didn't seem to improve the tunes... BTW, Frank Black played the Damned [I believe it was a goth-song] hosting 120 minutes on MTV years ago. "Isn't Dave Vanian just the best" Frank said. Cheers, Bart [liked Wire since '78, when Chairs Missing was released] bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:00:23 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] The Fall in Aldershot-uh 1. Brockwell Park: add Brilliant, New Model Army, Benjamin Zephaniah. A Save the GLC gig. Someone once told me that Smith began the gig with 'Hello We are the Fall. Save the GLC. Help gyppoes.' 2. Being a Midlander is no excuse for missing the above Rabjohn. Rumours of your part in the downfall of the GLC and Ken Livingstone are being circulated to the appropriate parties. I saw The Fall first time indoors on the NSG tour too though at Leicester Uni. Absolutely blew me away. Opened with Copped It. Favourite MES on stage comment. Birmingham Town Hall circa 1990. Someone throws an inflated rubber doll onto the stage. MES: 'This is the Fall. It's not a bloody Smiths or Morrissey gig you know?' 3. I did used to really like Spear of Destiny. Saw em dozens of times. They were just a really good live rock band who didn't really make the transition onto vinyl. They weren't as good as Theatre of Hate mind. And they did go really pants when they signed to Virgin and I gave up with them then. There was always something homosocial at least about loads of big sweaty men chicken dancing with their tops off wasn't there? 4. Damned: Love Damned, Damned, Damned, and MGE but by fave is the Black Album. 'Dozen Girls' is on Strawberries I think. Last time I saw the Damned was about ten years ago. Absolute rubbish. It was mostly covers including a truly awful version of LA Woman. John - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > > > > << lost my Fall virginity, Brockwell Park, London, > 1984. >> > > > > I was there. Bill also included (from memory) The > Damned, Spear of Destiny > > and Strawberry Switchblade! I think Rabjohn was > there too.... > > ////whilst i will confess to having seen both the > damned and smear of dysentry over the years (both > sort of ok but i don't think i ever bought a record > by either) i missed that one (midlander at the > time). > > i do laugh thinking back to SOD ; all those > ultra-macho fans and their ever-so-slightly camp > singer. bet those revelations came as a bit of a > surprise (ho ho) > > > I lost my Fall virginity at Blackpool Norbreck > Castle Nite Spot, November 79, > > on the tour where Totale's Turns was recorded. > > ///mine would hve been the birmingham powerhouse gig > on the nations saving grace tour. but remember i am > much younger than many on here.p Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:36:38 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned paul wrote: > the damned-machine gun etiquette is probably in my all time top 10, > definitely in the top 20. great live band too, unless you were my 98 lb so how many stone would that be then? > wife (then girlfriend) squashed against the stage by all teh thugs in the > audience. that lasted one song, then i got her a seat on one of the road > cases at the foot of the stage. You certainly were a chivalrous punk Paul! ;-) Machine Gun Ettiquette ruled indeed and still does! I saw them live in 1980 or 1981 [forgot] at the Paard van Troje [Trojan Horse] in the Hague, Holland. I remember Dave at one point shushing the audience when the Captain started playing his "moving" bit at the beginning of, what was it... Smash it Up? Crass-punks calling the Cpt. a pathetic wanker. It was the most turbulent gig I've ever witnessed. I was pushed, pulled and pogo-ed all over the place, 30 times around [and I didn't have my girlfriend there to save me]. Damn, I liked the Damned in those days! :-) Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com or: "Bart van Damned"? hmmm... not bad! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:51:59 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OFF TOPIC-uh] The Fall in Aldershot-uh John, << 1. Brockwell Park: add Brilliant, New Model Army, Benjamin Zephaniah. A Save the GLC gig. << Only missing Billy Bragg and the Redskins, plus a guest appearance from Paul Weller, for the full set of dull-but-worthies... >> Someone once told me that Smith began the gig with 'Hello We are the Fall. Save the GLC. Help gyppoes.'<< Don't remember that but it would have been in character! >>2. Being a Midlander is no excuse for missing the above Rabjohn. Rumours of your part in the downfall of the GLC and Ken Livingstone are being circulated to the appropriate parties. << Not sure if I wasn't still living in Brum myself at the time! I moved down to London in June 84 - the gig was about then if I recall... >> I saw The Fall first time indoors on the NSG tour too though at Leicester Uni. Absolutely blew me away. Opened with Copped It.<< Always better without the virgin Prunes tosser. >>Favourite MES on stage comment. Birmingham Town Hall circa 1990. Someone throws an inflated rubber doll onto the stage. MES: 'This is the Fall. It's not a bloody Smiths or Morrissey gig you know?'<< Possibly my favourite moment was when someone threw a pint of beer at himn (Manchester Poly, November 80). He shouted "Ya fuckin' ugly twat-ah!!", and dived into the crowd and lamped the bloke, while the band accompanied each blow with extra drum/guitar flourishes. >> 3. I did used to really like Spear of Destiny. Saw em dozens of times. They were just a really good live rock band who didn't really make the transition onto vinyl. They weren't as good as Theatre of Hate mind. And they did go really pants when they signed to Virgin and I gave up with them then. << Only saw SOD the once. TOH were, as you say, much better. Legion is a great single. >> There was always something homosocial at least about loads of big sweaty men chicken dancing with their tops off wasn't there? << Glad I missed that one! >>4. Damned: Love Damned, Damned, Damned, and MGE but by fave is the Black Album. 'Dozen Girls' is on Strawberries I think. Last time I saw the Damned was about ten years ago. Absolute rubbish. It was mostly covers including a truly awful version of LA Woman. >> After a cracking start, the damned very quickly degenerated into a comedy turn. Saw them in 1980 at the ever-crap Birmingham Odeon, and pretty much gave up with them after that. I was a serious young raincoat at the time, don't forget ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:18:36 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-our Frank >> 14lb = 1stone >> >> Americans! > > hehe, thanks mark. now back to the frank black question then...20 stone!!!!? > for real?? he's kinda short so that's not good... if true. Well, at a gig last year I saw him from really up close and he truely is quite the chubby little fella. I was at the front at one point and it was a bit scary - like looking up at the white cliffs of Dover. But then again you hear nobody complaining about David Thomas being just as large. Somehow Frank get on lots of people's tits nowadays and they use whatever they can to get at him. Dissapointment perhaps for not being able to maintain the high Pixies-level... and then of course there's the side-taking: [charming] Kim or [cranky] Frankie. The same thing happened when the Beatles broke up, people taking sides 'n all [wasn't John also the chubby one at one point, hehe]. But I like Kim's solo-stuff just a tiny little bit better than Frank's. I'll say it again: Pixies were just the best, but I still prefer a new FB release to just about any rock-related release these days. Interesting rock is such a rare commodity these days... I'm now listening to Guided by Voices' "Do the Collapse"... seems sorta related to both Frank's Catholic albums... Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:31:36 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PINK FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] > i've always hated just about everything brian james ever did (except maybe the > first couple of damned singles). i heard "music for pleasure" a couple of > weeks ago , with nick mason proving who had the talent in pink floyd pretty > conclusively. Talking about Pink Floyd... Anyone saw the documentary about Syd Barrett the other day on BBC2? After "Wish you were Here" [last PF album I could stand] I'd never have guessed hearing "Shine on you crazy Diamond" would actually move me... But it did! Poor Syd! Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:23:46 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned You lot better watch out or the bah-humbug-eighties-pop-crap-nothing-to-do-with-Wire police will get you! j - ----- Original Message ----- From: "bartvanDamme" To: Cc: "wire-news" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned > > Hi all: > > My name is Sean from Pittsburgh, Wire fan since about '83 I guess. > > I just joined last night and have been reading to see if I'll fit in > > around here. > > "Phantasmagoria" is a GREAT Damned album. Got it on vinyl when it came > > out with the bonus 12" of 'Eloise' (if my memory serves me well). > > Too bad most of my old vinyl is no more...:-( > > I like the Damned's 'neo-goth' era more than I actually (these days > > anyway) like their early punk stuff. It was a very funny and well-played > > album. I have it on tape now, need to get that on cd one of these days. > > Sean > > Hi Sean and welcome... > > For me Machine Gun Ettiquette is definitly my fav Damned album, but fav song > would be New Rose [my first ever punk-single] > The whole Goth-thing turned me off the Damned actually. It was funny, but it > didn't seem to improve the tunes... > > BTW, Frank Black played the Damned [I believe it was a goth-song] hosting > 120 minutes on MTV years ago. "Isn't Dave Vanian just the best" Frank said. > > Cheers, > > > Bart [liked Wire since '78, when Chairs Missing was released] > bartvandamme@home.nl > www.bartvandamme.com > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 24/11/01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:14:37 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] art & money on 11/23/01 7:43 PM, John Roberts at johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com wrote: > So the death of the Great Divide is a little > premature? We still have art - or at least aesthetic > practice? It never really died, it just broadened its boundaries and allowed some considerable more shit to get in :). Categorisation on the Good/Bad-High/Low axis would always exist: Something has to be defined as Bad, which in turn will help define the Good as Good by way of comparison. What Postmodernism certainly achieved is that academic research/analysis on works of art has to be more scientific and less 'poetic'. As for the recognition that certain works of art could be great even though they come from a not highly appreciated field (i.e. rock music, comics, Hollywood films, etc.), this has been going on for hundreds of years and is the way the system has always worked. Maybe with Postmodernism it was just more extreme (too extreme, to my taste). When I said there are objective factors that distinguish between Silo & Britney, I meant just that. Generalisation according to statistics can go wrong, but if it's done and analysed in the right way it can give you the right answers most of the time. One need only take the existing norms in music making at a certain time (which isn't easy but can be done) and see how the artist's music correspond to it. If we take Silo for example, I would say that the way they take electronic precise repetition and translate it to rock, with their non-4/4 beats on top, is certainly innovative. They might not be the first (well - they're not, but they're much better than Tortoise), but they're still in the minority. Of course, this is not as simple as it sounds: There's more than one set of conventions and rules, and there's more than one centre - mainstream is just a generalisation used to define numerous musical styles. 'Alternative' non-mainstream music also have its own centre, with its own set of conventions. Those systems are not isolated - they share between them lots of conventions and influence each other. But some differences are certainly objective. This distinction says nothing about quality or taste, but it does give a certain direction. So I don't believe that everything's equal - everything's relative. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:14:38 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall on 11/28/01 1:58 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > << And can anyone recommend a couple of more Fall albums? I only have "Live > at > the Witch Trials" and "Dragnet". >> > > Well, there are only anoher 87 albums after that ;-) > > Personal faves are Hex Enduction Hour, Perverted by Language, This Nation's > Saving Grace, Extricate, Shift-work and The Unutterable. That spans a good 20 > years! > > However every other Fall fan will disagree with this selection! > > Mark > HexEnduction, Perverted By Language, Wonderful & Frightening World of, Nation's Saving Grace, Bend Sinister (actually my favourite), Extricate, Shift-Work, Code Selfish, Light User Sybdrome, Unutterable (not a lot of difference, Mark). What do you think about the new one? cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:14:38 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] on 11/28/01 3:31 PM, bartvanDamme at bartvandamme@home.nl wrote: > "Wish you were Here" [last PF album I could stand] I'd never have guessed Does this mean you like 'Dark Side of the Moon'? giluz (we don't have apostrophes in Hebrew at all - makes life much easier) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:26:52 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned In a message dated 11/28/01 8:53:28 AM Central Standard Time, jerry@vane-recordings.com writes: > You lot better watch out or the > bah-humbug-eighties-pop-crap-nothing-to-do-with-Wire police will get you! > > j > yes, but i don't understand why it is not ok for a few Wire fans to chat about music or whatever that isn't related to Wire...i mean after all, there isn't any new Wire related material except the new Swim comp.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:47:16 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall Giluz, << HexEnduction, Perverted By Language, Wonderful & Frightening World of, Nation's Saving Grace, Bend Sinister (actually my favourite), Extricate, Shift-Work, Code Selfish, Light User Sybdrome, Unutterable (not a lot of difference, Mark).<< I guess you're more of a Brix fan than me! The only one of those I really don't rate is Light User Syndrome, though it's better than Levitate. Late-90s Fall was something of a low point IMO. >> What do you think about the new one? >> Like it. In fact it's becoming one of my albums of the year. Typical of the perverse old git to make something completely unlike The Unutterable (which I think is the best Fall album for nearly a decade, but which MES thinks is "too arty"). It sounds really rough and thrown together (in a good way) much as Slates or Room to Live do (i'd include both of those on my faves list too, as well as Grotesque). My Ex-classmates' kids I should imagine will top Peel's Festive 50. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:56:07 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned Hi Robert, Well let's not start that one up again suffice to say that I agree with you 100%. Viva Simple Minds! Viva Mileta Okiljevic! j - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned > In a message dated 11/28/01 8:53:28 AM Central Standard Time, > jerry@vane-recordings.com writes: > > > > You lot better watch out or the > > bah-humbug-eighties-pop-crap-nothing-to-do-with-Wire police will get you! > > > > j > > > > yes, but i don't understand why it is not ok for a few Wire fans to chat > about music or whatever that isn't related to Wire...i mean after all, there > isn't any new Wire related material except the new Swim comp.... > Robert > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.303 / Virus Database: 164 - Release Date: 24/11/01 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:08:34 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, giluz wrote: > HexEnduction, Perverted By Language, Wonderful & Frightening World of, > Nation's Saving Grace, Bend Sinister (actually my favourite), > Extricate, Shift-Work, Code Selfish, Light User Sybdrome, Unutterable > (not a lot of difference, Mark). wow, two for Shift-Work. i thought it was awful and Code Selfish not much better, but i agree on the rest. actually, might recommend The Frenz Experiment instead of Bend Sinister, for late-80s Fall. Frenz Ex has the Spinal Tap ripoff, after all. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:23:27 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Frenz of The Fall on 11/28/01 7:08 PM, Aaron Mandel at aaron@eecs.harvard.edu wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, giluz wrote: > >> HexEnduction, Perverted By Language, Wonderful & Frightening World of, >> Nation's Saving Grace, Bend Sinister (actually my favourite), >> Extricate, Shift-Work, Code Selfish, Light User Sybdrome, Unutterable >> (not a lot of difference, Mark). > > wow, two for Shift-Work. i thought it was awful and Code Selfish not much > better, but i agree on the rest. actually, might recommend The Frenz > Experiment instead of Bend Sinister, for late-80s Fall. Frenz Ex has the > Spinal Tap ripoff, after all. > > a > I like Frenz as well, as well as others - the list still has to be short enough. What Spinal Tap ripoff? By the way, it really pissed me off that on the CD version of Frenz there's a different version of Bremen Nacht, one of my favourite tracks on this album. Is there any CD release with the original version? cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:41:35 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. Hey gang...keep your fingers crossed for me...I am turning in an application to fill a two hour spot at my local public radio station....my show will of course include on a regular basis: Wire and solo Wire, the Fall, tons of ambient and experimental stuff, etc..This has been a dream of mine for quite sometime....wish me luck... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:44:39 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Frenz of The Fall On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, giluz wrote: > I like Frenz as well, as well as others - the list still has to be > short enough. What Spinal Tap ripoff? "Athlete Cured" uses the riff from Spinal Tap's "Tonight We're Gonna Rock You Tonight". (i think there's a minor one-note difference in the middle, but listen to them and you'll see what i mean.) > By the way, it really pissed me off that on the CD version of Frenz > there's a different version of Bremen Nacht, one of my favourite > tracks on this album. Is there any CD release with the original > version? i don't think so; there's a third version on the b-sides collection (458489B) but not the original. a ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:07:42 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Frenz of The Fall > By the way, it really pissed me off that on the CD version of Frenz there's > a different version of Bremen Nacht, one of my favourite tracks on this > album. Is there any CD release with the original version? > Really? Tell you what - I have the original vinyl. I'll make an MP3 and post it somewhere for people to compare. (I don't have the CD...) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:42:34 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) In a message dated 11/27/01 6:47:54 PM Central Standard Time, ultratwist@hotmail.com writes: << What's weird, is that apparently Sparks did some sort of collaboration/production work with the GS. Now I'm actually a pretty big fan of Sparks, so it is sort of dissapointing that the are in any way connected to a band that sang "Are you ready for the sex girls?" -Heather >> so, what are your favorite Sparks records? Unfortunately, i only have Whomp That Sucker, and #1 in Heaven..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:50:27 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] >> "Wish you were Here" [last PF album I could stand] > > Does this mean you like 'Dark Side of the Moon'? Hmmm, it certainly was not my favourite. I used to like the early albums up to Meddle and also Wish You Were Here. For me Dark Side has a few good songs, but I'm just not too familiar with it. Songs like "Money" allways put me off a little. I rather heard these millionair rockstars truthfully singing about Saint Tropez than fooling around with halfwit politics. In the Wall [the song] this notion of so-called rebellion to me became unbareble. I haven't played any of their stuff ever since. I don't have it on cd and sold all my vinyl except for Meddle. [though I never should have sold a masterpiece like Umma Gumma]. The documentary about Barrett sort of woke my PF-ears again... > giluz (we don't have apostrophes in Hebrew at all - makes life much easier) Gilu'z? Giluz's? Gi'Luz? Gilluzzez? [you're right, doesn't work] Cheers! Bart [reaching for a peach...] bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:55:40 -0600 From: "Heather ." Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) At the moment, my favorite Sparks album is their newest one, "Balls." I highly recommend it, especially the track, "How to get your Ass kicked ." It amazes me that a group so good, who've been together for almost thirty years, still haven't got their proper recognition in the US. Some of my other favorite Sparks tracks are "Beat the Clock", "#1 song in Heaven", and "Looks Looks Looks." Have you heard their duet with Les Rita Mitsouko, "Singing in the Shower"? I haven't heard it yet, but I have heard the song "Andy" by Les Rita Mitsouko, and liked it very much. The video is even better! - -Heather > >so, what are your favorite Sparks records? Unfortunately, i only have Whomp >That Sucker, and #1 in Heaven..... > >Robert _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:00:50 -0500 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) >From: RLynn9@aol.com >so, what are your favorite Sparks records? Unfortunately, i only have Whomp >That Sucker, and #1 in Heaven..... > >Robert Kimono My House by far and away the best Sparks album _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:12:49 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) In a message dated 11/28/01 12:01:01 PM Central Standard Time, sjgraziano@hotmail.com writes: << Kimono My House by far and away the best Sparks album >> what year is this from? and is more rockish or electronic ? ..speaking of which, what album was the Sparks most electronically inclined? now playing: Steve Reich - "Different Trains" earlier played: Steve Reich "Drumming" will be played later: Ned Lagin - Seastones Arne Nordheim - Electric Tuxedomoon - You Durutti Column - Bread and Circuses Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:24:30 -0600 From: "Heather ." Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) "Kimono My House" is a classic, no doubt about it! I had "Talent is an Asset" in my head yesterday. "KmH" was released around 74 or 75, though I could be wrong ;) It is more "rockish" than a lot of their later output. The most electronic album is "Balls", in my opinion. Hope you don't mind Robert, but I am going to copy your music list here .:) now listening to: "Great Southern Land" by Icehouse was listening to: "Celestial" by Heavenly Bodies will listen to: maybe Switchblade Symphony's "Scrapbook" since it would fit the weather we're having here, though some Nico would work just as well - -Heather >><< Kimono My House by far and away the best Sparks album >> > >what year is this from? and is more rockish or electronic ? ..speaking of >which, what album was the Sparks most electronically inclined? > >now playing: Steve Reich - "Different Trains" >earlier played: Steve Reich "Drumming" >will be played later: Ned Lagin - Seastones > Arne Nordheim - Electric > Tuxedomoon - You > Durutti Column - Bread and Circuses >Robert Lynn _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:31:25 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) In a message dated 11/28/01 12:25:31 PM Central Standard Time, ultratwist@hotmail.com writes: << now listening to: "Great Southern Land" by Icehouse>>>> now Icehouse is a group i have always meant to learn more about...especially the older stuff... <<>> they were criminally underrated! <<< will listen to: maybe Switchblade Symphony's "Scrapbook" since it would fit the weather we're having here>>>> what does that sound like? Wasn't Rose McGowan in that group?..If you like her vocals you should check out the band Sorrow..especially "The Final Solstice" cd..She does a great cover of the Normal's "Warm Leatherette" ( i also love Grace Jones version!), <>> Just listened to "The End" by Nico on a rainy and cold night here in St.Louis a few days ago... -Heather >> Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:41:50 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] post-postmodernism Giluz wrote: > So I don't believe that everything's equal - everything's relative. To me postmodernism is not so about equalizing rather than the notion that "anything goes" wich can be liberating on the one hand and superficial on the other. It certainly seems intertwined with the departure of coldwar thinking. Societies are changing so rapidly now. This list e.g. is a fine example of the way new communities emerge. Ten years ago it seemed impossible for a global group like ourselves to come together and blab in this manner. I mean, isn't it weird we're able to discuss things here we not able to discuss with our neighbours or friends even! What is a bloody shame of course is the fact that these tools can also be used in destructive ways, as terrorists have been showing us lately. I wonder what impact the internet will have on our societies in, let's say 10 - 15 years from now. The strangers are friends again boys. The knives are blunt again boys. [and not from extensive use, I hope] Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:47:25 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. Robert wrote: > Hey gang...keep your fingers crossed for me...I am turning in an application > to fill a two hour spot at my local public radio station....my show will of > course include on a regular basis: Wire and solo Wire, the Fall, tons of > ambient and experimental stuff, etc..This has been a dream of mine for quite > sometime....wish me luck... > > Robert Lynn GOOD LUCK ROBERT!! You go girl! Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:51:35 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) You're thinking of Strawberry Switchblade, half of which was Rose McDowall. Mark << <<< will listen to: maybe Switchblade Symphony's "Scrapbook" since it would fit the weather we're having here>>>> what does that sound like? Wasn't Rose McGowan in that group? >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:55:34 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PINK FL.... Robert wrote: > The Wall ruined it for me..never > listened to them since... Right! And also, by then Punk had reared it's ugly head up the arse of all the likes of Pink Floyd... Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:57:01 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. In a message dated 11/28/01 12:48:44 PM Central Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << GOOD LUCK ROBERT!! You go girl! >> in the version of the comic book X-Force there is a heroine named U-GO Girl...kind of a silly name...but the comic book is great...it is an attack on the media and media manipulation and pop stardom and fame...this group of "heroes" is entirely concerned with their marketabilty and fame..they even engineer fights amongst themselves to grab headlines...while one hero in the group tries to combat all of this nonsense ...so the real villian isn't a super powered baddie but the media and fame itself.....yes, i still read comic books! laugh if you will but there are all sorts of different types out comic books out there now (a lot of mindless crap as well)..I am proud of comic books..a true American artform Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:57:51 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) In a message dated 11/28/01 12:51:35 PM Central Standard Time, Mark Bursa writes: << You're thinking of Strawberry Switchblade, half of which was Rose McDowall. Mark >> oh yes! that's right! i am so silly sometimes... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:59:02 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-The Fall >> HexEnduction, Perverted By Language, Wonderful & Frightening World of, >> Nation's Saving Grace, Bend Sinister (actually my favourite), >> Extricate, Shift-Work, Code Selfish, Light User Sybdrome, Unutterable>> (not a lot of difference, Mark). > >wow, two for Shift-Work. i thought it was awful and Code Selfish not much >better, I actually tried to buy Code: Selfish in the 'states lately, and had a heck of a time trying to find it. Wasn't on the major UK on-line websites either. Finally got it through Tower Records. I actually rate it rather highly. Although, I admit, I have a (relatively) limited collection of Fall albums. (^_^) I think the Unutterable is the only one that (almost?) everyone recommends. It just keeps gettng better and better. Cheers, Paul *********************************************************** Brain: "Pinky, Are You Pondering What I'm Pondering?" Pinky: "I think so Brain, but can the gummy worms really live in peace with the marshmallow chips?" Paul Pietromonaco Test Engineer - Reflection X WRQ, Inc. E-Mail: paulp@wrq.com *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:02:18 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PIN'K FL.......[hehe, gotcha!] >> Does this mean you like 'Dark Side of the Moon'? > >Hmmm, it certainly was not my favourite. I used to like the early albums up >to Meddle and also Wish You Were Here. For me Dark Side has a few good >songs, but I'm just not too familiar with it. I think most people are *too* familiar with it. It gets played to death over here in the 'states. Probably in many other places in the world, too. That being said, I have a quadraphonic version of it. For those of you with four ears. (^_^) Parts of the stereo version are still in quad - namely the clocks and the money/cash register bits. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:19:22 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. >> GOOD LUCK ROBERT!! You go girl! > in the version of the comic book X-Force there is a heroine named U-GO > Girl...kind of a silly name...but the comic book is great...it is an attack > on the media and media manipulation and pop stardom and fame...this group of > "heroes" is entirely concerned with their marketabilty and fame..they even > engineer fights amongst themselves to grab headlines...while one hero in the > group tries to combat all of this nonsense ...so the real villian isn't a > super powered baddie but the media and fame itself.....yes, i still read > comic books! laugh if you will but there are all sorts of different types out > comic books out there now (a lot of mindless crap as well)..I am proud of > comic books..a true American artform > > Robert Sounds like an intelligently made comic. It truely is an american artform and hey, you don't hear me dissing it. Here in Europe there also has been a thriving comic scene. In Holland we call 'em "strips" and in Belgium/France [the two major comics countries] "bande desinee" I grew up on comic books and for quite a few years made a living as a cartoonist and illustrator. They called me sir D[rawalot] [do the John Wayne voice] If you like you can check the website below for some examples. Nowadays I hardly read them anymore though I still dig Charles Burns [he did the Brick by Brick album by Iggy] and Art Spiegelman's ["Maus" is brilliant] work. Know them? I always wanted to write a song about a Hugo [something] but it somehow seemed a bit too obvious and "Blur" so I never did. Cheers, Bart bartvandamme@home.nl http://www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:28:32 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] need Ideal Copyists mojo.. In a message dated 11/28/01 1:24:52 PM Central Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: << Nowadays I hardly read them anymore though I still dig Charles Burns [he did the Brick by Brick album by Iggy] and Art Spiegelman's ["Maus" is brilliant] work. Know them? >> Ah yes! Charles Burns (along with Jim Woodring, Chris Ware, and Dan Clowes) is one of my favorites of all time! All of his strips have been collected in 4 huge volumes!! the fourth is not out yet.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:52:40 -0600 From: "Heather ." Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-damned spear of destiny-uh (no fall content) Switchblade Symphony was primarily Tina Root and Susan Wallace. They were a really good moody, dare I say goth ;), electronic band. Root has one of those great, occasionally near operatic voices (depending on which track you're listening to). Their most popular album is the first one, "Serpentine Gallery", and its popular for a reason. "Scrapbook" is a really good compilation of unearthed tracks, remixes, and live songs. I would be interested in hearing the Rose McDowall cover of "warm leatherette", so I'll keep an eye out for that. :) Grace Jones is amazing, and as far as I am concerned, she should of been in the film version of Charlie's Angels. But I digress... I love Nico's version of "The End". I actually enjoy more than the Doors version. She was a true original. Icehouse's early stuff is fabulous. The highlight's for me being "Great Southern Land", "Can't help myself", and "Icehouse." The video to the song "Icehouse" is also one of the best music videos in my opinion. Very atmospheric and creepy. It's great to meet someone who has heard the Heavenly Bodies album. It is so beautiful. It's a shame that it is out of print. - -Heather _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #362 *******************************