From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #354 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, November 21 2001 Volume 04 : Number 354 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: Eno again [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #353 ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] wire videos [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] What if..... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] What if..... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone [Andrew Westmeyer ] [idealcopy] 2 clarifications [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] CD-Rs and The Wire Page [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re:Serious Drinking ["Scott Kellock" ] Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert item of interest [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] What if..... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] art & money [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] cd-r's and the wire page [bartvanDamme ] Re: [idealcopy] cd-r's and the wire page ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [loud-fans] Greatest Hits [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] What if..... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Wire on Video ["Phillip Blakeney" ] [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)] Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] What if..... [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] McMac ["bartvandamme@home" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:47:57 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Eno again > Ok found this from Brian Eno. Any thoughts? > > "Looking back in 20 years, it'll be very obvious that > computer music had a particular flavor, just like > music of the 1960s with the wah-wah pedal. It will > have the sound of its technology: unfunky, overfussy > and dead as stone." He said something quite similar in about 1983 at the time of the release of On Land - about modern studio technology creating `dead' sounding music. Like other members of the list I am at a loss to explain why this applies to other artists but (presumably) not to him. Thinking of `time specific' sounds, what about that bloody 'orrible chiming DX7 sound that is all over his late 80s/early 90s output. The other point is that as he was born in Suffolk and lives in West London, he can't spell `flavour'. And the further point is directed to whoever it was (Bart?) who laughed at the `funkiness' of Ali Click - have you ever heard the 12" mix? Works for me on the shake-yer-wig front. And On Land remains a favourite of mine, just to get some balance into the post. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:52:57 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #353 It was expensive. I paid Uri #30 for a copy - but it was well worth it - it does run to nearly 3 hours! I know I had to wait a while, cos I think Uri used to just get a batch of videos run off from his master, every time he amassed a certain number of orders. Perhaps if enough of you ask for a copy, he'll do some more. As a bonus, there's also a little bit of Tuxedomoon on the video (there's a bit about Crammed Discs). I also have a CD-ROM, which is (I think) most of the video. The quality isn't as good (and I hate watching on the PC anyway), but this only cost #10. Not sure where that came from, but I think I remember buying from one of the Wire web sites a few years ago. Maybe it's time for a DVD!!! BTW Anyone into music DVD's should check out Icky Flix (The Residents)! It'll be a long time before that is beat! rezMole Chris wrote: >Uri did sell a pretty good compilation tape lasting 3 hours or so of all Wires >video releases,the Rockpalast show shown at QE Hall & other 80"s bits of Wire >including a WIR concert.I haven't watched it in a while.It cost me 25 quid or >so. But it is excellent when you need that Wire fix !!! >He may still do copies. I forgot all about this. I contacted Uri about the tape more than a year ago. He told me it was that expensive because of the mastering. Guess I was a little short back then. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:54:14 EST From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Eno again In a message dated 11/20/01 7:00:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: << And the further point is directed to whoever it was (Bart?) who laughed at the `funkiness' of Ali Click - have you ever heard the 12" mix? Works for me on the shake-yer-wig front. And On Land remains a favourite of mine, just to get some balance into the post. >> That was me. No, I have not heard it. Who mixed it? I have the Fractal Zoom cd ep which has about 80 minutues of versions, half of which are Moby and the other half Brian, and all of which are pretty tepid. As for balance, I'm a fan of his ambient stuff and the early song cds. Most of his later period stuff represents the sound of coasting. See my prior post on the negative correlation of Geritol intake and music quality. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:28:38 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] we meet section 25 under tables Paul, SXXV weren't great consumers of their contemporaries' music, outside obvious reference points within Factory. A lot of what they did was based on improvisation. I'd guess they hadn't heard the Wire/CN track when Sakura was written. D&E came out in 81 and Not To in early 82. Sakura was recorded in August 82. Don't see much musical similarity. WMUT is in 3/4 time for a start, while Sakura is closer in spirit to New Order's Everything's Gone Green or Hurt. This was a historic joint posting to the idealcopy and faclist groups brought to you by Eurovision. C'etait un posting historique aux groups idealcopy et faclist grace a Eurovision. Mark >>listening to d&e today, i noticed for the first time a strong similarity between we meet under tables and the song sakura by section 25. it seems section 25 may have been listening to a bit of wire before writing the lyrics to that one. i admit "where to go what to do, etc.." isn't too far a stretch to be coincidental, but there is a similarity beyond just the words. interesting...to me at least. - -paul c.d. (also realising this is the first time he's listened to d&e 3 days in a row) p.s. hi again mark ;o) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] wire videos For the record it was sugested many moons ago that WMO try and do something with this. Mute were unwilling to release the Wire, He Said or AC Marias to us (at the time). They presumably had plans (at the time) to do something with them. As for others; Colins Beggars Banquet / 4AD vids are lost or languishing in someones cupboard. As for live stuff, there's tons of 'bootleg' stuff and a heap of stuff from the first US tour that was video-ed with Graham Lewis vid camera. Very shaky, very ropey. Both 'I Saw You's' were videoed. The London one by myself using two cameras (from the art school Iw as then at!). The London Blur show where Wir played was videoed the same way. As has been said Uri did a pretty good job of putting a lot of this stuff together, but I know it cost him an arm and a leg (and probably a bank loan) to realise this. Plans for a vid comp by WMO were therefore shelved and I for one have no plans to open this hornets nest of licensing and advance fees and mastering. Urgh! ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:46:10 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wire videos on 11/20/01 6:27 PM, kevin eden at wmouk@yahoo.com wrote: > For the record it was sugested many moons ago that WMO > try and do something with this. > > Mute were unwilling to release the Wire, He Said or AC > Marias to us (at the time). They presumably had plans > (at the time) to do something with them. > > As for others; Colins Beggars Banquet / 4AD vids are > lost or languishing in someones cupboard. > Thought as much. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:04:54 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... Quite a few of the successful recent gigs at the Royal Festival Hall resulted in a repeat performance. the Residents came back for another go, and Dave Gilmour is doing some more nights in January. So what if the RFH decided to ask Wire back? What would you all like to see if, purely hypothetically, there were plans for "It's all in the brochure...again" Support from C&M and Dome? Bruce's shed? A He Said Leonard Cohen covers set? The Snakes? A reunion with George Gill? A piss break? What do you think? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:43:59 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... i think reforming the snakes is a great idea. so everyone could get one solo bash so that'd be ac marias , hox and a C&M set as well. and of course no wire event would be complete without some ballet. which obviously should be part of the snakes set. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone > > I've got the "Live at the Roxy" 2LP, autographed by all 4. > > That's probably my most treasured item. Others are rarer. > > But I'll never forget the faces of B, G, R, & C when they > > first looked at the item I had asked them to sign! > > I think that's rare enough. When did you get them to sign it ? The Los Angeles show last year. I was also thrilled the following morning when I went to a cafe for breakfast, and sure enough they were having breakfast there too! ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:53:27 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] CD-Rs and The Wire Page - --- "Cambra, Robert" wrote: > I miss The Wire Page. Does anyone know whether it's down > temporarily or permanently? Andrew, are you there? Here I am! I'm using a different email address now, since I should be getting my degree soon and losing my old address... Were there problems with the Wire Page? It should still be up and running. It hasn't been updated for a year, but it still has a very thorough discography and collection of lyrics. It can be accessed at 2 URLS: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~qwerty/wire and http://www.public.asu.edu/~qwerty1/wire ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:02:22 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone - --- Alistair Tear wrote: > Erm, what is this ear/trumpet lp thing ? It's Ear|Trumpet, with a vertical line. I don't know how important that may be. :) The story is in Kevin's book. They were a young local band that knew Bruce. He contributed a few guitar parts to their album, "Bring On The Dirt" back in 1988. As long as we're on the subject... Another required vinyl release for the Wire fanatic is Sononko's "La Debutante". That's a cute record, but IMO it doesn't hold up as well as the Ear|Trumpet one. ===== Andrew Westmeyer anw7pima@yahoo.com Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:44:48 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... on 11/20/01 7:04 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > So what if the RFH decided to ask Wire back? What would you all like to see > if, purely hypothetically, there were plans for "It's all in the > brochure...again" The RFH was too arty and 'respectable' for my taste. The whole event was too distant and official (though Wire were great). I kicked myself a few times for not being more patient to wait for the Garage gig (who knew that Wire were gonna go on tour back then?). I believe/hope Wire will probably tour to promote their new album, sometime next year. I do hope that it's not gonna be at the RFH. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:57:14 -0600 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] 2 clarifications Thanks to all who contacted me regarding my review on the Gilbert album. I must say that knowing a few people might have gained interest in that wonderful album feels pretty good. But my point remains the same: people always say if don't like the threads, start your own, but that's easier said than done. I didn't mean to say that there is something wrong w/ listening to older music. I do it every day. I guess that I just HOPE that everyone continues to look for new things--REALLY new, not just new versions of old things. (Oh, I like this! It reminds me of so-and-so, etc.) Anxiously awaiting the new Wire album (yes, I know it will be a bit yet!) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:08:59 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] CD-Rs and The Wire Page In a message dated 20/11/01 01:26:56 GMT Standard Time, Robert.Cambra@harpercollins.com writes: > Robert > (who, turned 45 October 29th and is hoping I'm not the oldest geezer on the > list.) > > > well..you're older than me.I turned 42 on wait for it ..October 29th. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:22:27 -0000 From: "Scott Kellock" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:Serious Drinking > Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 05:02:18 EST > From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com > Subject: [idealcopy] serious drinking > > i have a really crappy tape of SD's medley of 12XU/Bobby Moore Is Innocent. anyone got the album this came off and could copy it , or even tell me what album it was on? always made me laugh..... p Paul, The album was called "The Revolution Starts at Closing Time" I have the vinyl album and also "Stranger Than Tannadise" which comes oddly enough with a free beer mat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:44:58 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] CD-Rs and The Wire Page Blimey. So that's two October 28ths and two 29ths. Any more? Mark << well..you're older than me.I turned 42 on wait for it ..October 29th. >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:14:54 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] CD-Rs and The Wire Page ><< well..you're older than me.I turned 42 on wait for it ..October 29th. >> >Blimey. So that's two October 28ths and two 29ths. Any more? Uh, yeah. I was born on October 31st/November 1st. (Right at Midnight). I turned 36, though. (^_^) Cheers, Paul P.S. Go Scorpios!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:58:54 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Colin Newman questions... Do any Ideal Copyists know if there have been any Colin Newman exclusive vocal tracks appear anywhere else like compilations and what not?...I spend so much time collecting the Lewis and Gilbert rarities that i sometimes neglect my research on Colin stuff ....i am speaking strictly of tracks not already on any of the albums.....Also, why did the plans for the Newman album of unreleased material get scrapped?...I believe it was going to be called "Vox Pop"...and is it likely this stuff will ever see the light of day?...Thanks for any help, Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:20:14 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... on 11/20/01 7:04 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > So what if the RFH decided to ask Wire back? What would you all like to see > if, purely hypothetically, there were plans for "It's all in the > brochure...again" > > Support from C&M and Dome? Bruce's shed? A He Said Leonard Cohen covers set? > The Snakes? A reunion with George Gill? A piss break? > Since Wire mostly played PinkFlag-era songs, the Ex-Lion Tamers should perhaps reform and do 80's Wire. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:21:59 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone In a message dated 20/11/01 16:45:03 GMT Standard Time, anw7pima@yahoo.com writes: > > I think that's rare enough. When did you get them to sign it ? > > The Los Angeles show last year. I was also thrilled the following > morning when I went to a cafe for breakfast, and sure enough they were > having breakfast there too! /////i always figured an autographed LP would be great , buti could never see it ending up in one piece. i take it you weren't "moshing" too frantically???? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:29:29 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Bruce Gilbert item of interest Hello all...i just recieved in the mail a 12" that i won on ebay....i believe it is by Madrid? (or maybe it is by Madrid and the track is?) and contains the following: pan american external tone remix leverkusen external tone remix bruce gilbert beekeeper cross mix thought some of you might like to know if you didn't already....it's from 1999 on the Papaerplane label from France....don't know how i missed this one! Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:31:09 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... In a message dated 20/11/01 20:24:15 GMT Standard Time, giluz@netvision.net.il writes: > Since Wire mostly played PinkFlag-era songs, the Ex-Lion Tamers should > perhaps reform and do 80's Wire. > > giluz > ///// a terrible thought passes me by to try and compile a "you really shouldn't have put that in the brochure" line-up , consisting of people's least favourite wire-related acts. wonder what george gill's doing these days :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:50:18 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] art & money on 11/19/01 2:19 PM, Bart at bart@adrem.nl wrote: > Giluz wrote: > In my view the > post-postmodern times we live in ask of us a different approach towards what > is exciting and innovative. Personally I find it in the strangest places and > not only between the defined walls of indie-music. Indie labels might have defined themselves as a musical genre back in the 80's (and that wasn't entirely true as well), but today there's no generic definition to them. They don't represent a certain musical style - they're just independent record labels, theoretically not dependant on the big labels. The music industry is the one defining the boundaries, it's not the other way around. Post-modernism certainly reshuffled the boundaries between high and low art. However, I don't believe that everything's equal (no-one really does). There are certain objective factors, not relating to taste, that do distinguish between Britney Spears and Silo. > Cheers to Wire for forming their own label! I think Indies have a limited > lifespan and that's ok with me. If they go on long enough they get to be > established themselves, don't they? What you mean is that in order to survive they have to compromise. Well, this is what happened up till now. It doesn't mean that it has to be that way in the future. That's the whole point of PostEverything. > True... but with the internet there are also huge posibillities for artists > to create their own community and marketplace. The infrastructure is there > for the biggest revolution the music-industry. People have to be inventive > enough to turn it to their advantage though. Then the corporates will be > really shitting themselves. That's another purpose of PostEverything. >> Psychology is just good for accounting for the individual and would never >> give a sound explanation of the way society works. When Graeme dissed Freud >> a few days ago he meant that psychoanalysis was too dominant in the popular >> discourse. We psychoanalyse everything, but you can't psychoanalyse a >> society. You'd have to use a more suitable theory for that. > > Why can't you psychoanalyse a society? It just a micro/macro difference > isn't it? I think all patterns in society start with the human behaviour. Of course, but humans behave differently as individuals and as a society. A society does not have an id, ego or unconsious. A society does not have parents, families and friends. It's a very tempting analogy but it just doesn't fit. Some academic charlatans decided that it does, but I don't buy this shit. > > >> As for philosophy - this is too big a word. What kind of philosophy do you >> mean? My philosophy, described above, is neo-marxist. What did you have in >> mind when you were referring to philosophy? > > Look, every sane person knows the "ways-of-the-west" and it's big > corporations is making this world mindnumbingly boring. Thing is, it is > allowed by a majority of the population. The majority don't want > revolutions, innovation... [don't want Wire!] > But do you believe in educating the masses as Marx did, Giluz? I certainly > don't [anymore]. And what's so neo about Marxism? > I sympathized with the marxist movement for a long time and I still believe > they've got their heart in the right place, but as a system it just doesn't > work. We tried it... it failed... now let's move on to something else. > Maybe I just lost the "R" in Revolution somewhere along the way... Marxism was never actually tried as a system (no - Russia and China are not good examples), but it probably would have failed even if it did. Where it did succeed was in the way people think and to a bigger extent in the academic world. What I mean when I say neo-marxism is the body of works made by the likes of Antonio Gramsci, Theodore W. Adorno, Louis Althusser, Pierre Bourdieu, Michel Foucault, Noam Chomsky and a lot more. All of these writings are based on Marx but changed his static materialistic theory into something more dynamic. Marxism or neo-marxism methodology, in one form or another, is at the basis of most theories used in the research of mass culture (including popular music, of course). Concepts such as Culture Industry, Cultural Hegemony and culture criticism are marxist. Researchers that use marxist methodology do not necessarily hold 'marxist' political views - it is a sceintific methodology used to analyse society, and it's certainly more suited to this task than using psychoanalysis. > > I'd like to look at philosophy as a range of posibilities to look at life. I > don't want to pin myself down to only one dish [though I have do have my > favourite dishes of course] In our society I recognize a lot of what > Schopenhauer said about the generations: In time each generation is turning > into previous one. Therefor nothing really changes, it's just a different > package. Translating this to the music industry I think there will always be > a market, even if it is just as small niche, for exciting and innovating > music. Schopenhauer may be right but his view doesn't help us understanding the universe - 'Nothing really changes' is something I would never accept, and is only true to basic fundamental things like getting old, dying, having children, etc. Of course there will always be a market for innovation. The real questions are: How big is it at each point in time? Why was there a bigger market at some time and a smaller market at another? What are the power relations between this market and the mainstream? There are lots of elements whose weight and power relations determine the answers to these questions, the most dominant of which, nowadays, is the music industry run by the multinational corporations. giluz, probably one of the 1st that will be shot when the Revolution comes, and a Mac user, also. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:00:22 +0100 From: bartvanDamme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd-r's and the wire page Alistair wrote: > (who, turned 45 October 29th and is hoping I'm not the oldest geezer on the > list.) 38! [hang in there] Bart bartvandamme@home.nl www.bartvandamme.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:02:44 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... At 10:20 PM 11/20/2001 +0300, giluz wrote: >on 11/20/01 7:04 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >> So what if the RFH decided to ask Wire back? What would you all like to see >> if, purely hypothetically, there were plans for "It's all in the >> brochure...again" >> >> Support from C&M and Dome? Bruce's shed? A He Said Leonard Cohen covers set? >> The Snakes? A reunion with George Gill? A piss break? >> > >Since Wire mostly played PinkFlag-era songs, the Ex-Lion Tamers should >perhaps reform and do 80's Wire. It's a great conceit! However, given Ex-Lion Tamer drummer/Chi-town rockcrit Jim DeRogatis' extreme dislike of the '80s version of Wire (see the Wire entry in the TROUSER PRESS GUIDE TO '90s ROCK; as I've said, I prefer Jim Green's more balanced assessment in the earlier TP guides), I think the Ex-Lion Tamers are out. How about monikering an '80s Wire cover outfit "the Idealcopyists"? :-) Funny, when I *think* about RFH, I focus as much on "Silk Skin Paws," "Boiling Boy," and "Advantage in Height" (*smoking* at all three 2000 shows I caught!) as on the 1977-80 songs, but a look at the setlist shows that giluz is of course right -- ten 1977-80 songs, five 1986-1988 songs, and two new ones. The typical 2000 show was a little more balanced and (unfortunately) a lot more brief: six 1977-80, four 1986-88, and one new... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:09:48 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd-r's and the wire page >Alistair wrote: > > >> (who, turned 45 October 29th and is hoping I'm not the oldest geezer on the >> list.) > dunno -- you've got 3 years on me. back to packing (i'm truly astonished to realize how many more books i've got than records & cd's, & i've got *tons* of records & cd's) & hoping my 15-year-old deaf springer spaniel turns up after going missing sunday afternoon ... dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:11:18 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... >>///// a terrible thought passes me by to try and compile a "you really shouldn't have put that in the brochure" line-up , consisting of people's least favourite wire-related acts. wonder what george gill's doing these days << Could include: In Esse extended atonal remix (just to get the crowd going....home) The Snakes play your 20 favourite Chuck Berry songs Bad hair Wire (featuring Graham's mullet and, for the first time together, Colin's beard and ponytail) Pre-Wire - George Gill shows his 'chops' on new versions of Mary is a dyke, backed by Menswear AC/DC Marias - Angus Young replaces Bruce on a new version of Time was Hear'say play P'o - a meeting of apostrophes Colin Numan - new retro synth direction. Malka replaced by small rotating pyramid She said Omala - Graham unveils new androgynous image Elastica Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:13:33 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [loud-fans] Greatest Hits At 12:48 PM 11/20/2001 -0800, Jer wrote: >The GREATEST HITS CD, btw, is the first thing I've >ever purchased by the Cure despite liking them for >about a decade. I can't really say, then, how good or >representative it is (at least until I buy some of >their albums, which I now plan to do) I thought I was a latecomer to the Cure when I began liking them in 1988! I had bought THE HEAD ON THE DOOR in '85 but wasn't engaged by it then, and the videos from KISS ME KISS ME KISS ME didn't grab me at the time. Then we moved to Nashville and I kept hearing cool songs on WRVU like "Charlotte Sometimes," "The Hanging Garden," "A Forest," "Primary," and "The Walk," and I was sold. I think the Cure's career is remarkably consistent. The absolute peak for me is probably the 17 SECONDS / FAITH / PORNOGRAPHY sequence, but that shouldn't be taken to imply a dropoff. In fact, DISINTEGRATION (1989) and BLOODFLOWERS (2000) are my #1 albums of their respective years. From esoteric new wave debut (BOYS DON'T CRY/THREE IMAGINARY BOYS) to dark propulsive dirges (1981-82) to cracked pop singles (1983-85) to incredible hodgepodge of all of the above and more (KISS ME KISS ME KISS ME) to elegiac dirges (DISINTEGRATION) to '90s inbetween-styles (WISH, WILD MOOD SWINGS) and back to elegiac dirges (BLOODFLOWERS), I've enjoyed it all. The real questions on the Cure catalog, which may be related to each other, are: (1) Why aren't there CD releases of their enormous and high-quality catalog of b-sides and rarities? The *cassette* of STARING AT THE SEA remains a better buy than the CD because it's got an album's worth of them, then there was THE CARNAGE VISORS, great moody stuff on the FAITH cassette... There's a whole boxed set's worth of them just waiting to be gathered or used as bonus tracks on reissues. (2) Why hasn't the band's catalog been remastered? The CDs of the 1980-85 catalog (i.e., CDs done from album masters in the late '80s) are particularly showing their age, plus they could tack on a ton of b-sides as per item #1... >but I was >surprised to find "Pictures of You" absent. Wasn't it >one of their bigger hits? Or did someone at the radio >station I used to listen to just happen to have a >thing for it? "Lovesong" and "Lullaby" were the ones I remember getting airplay outside of college radio, and they're both on the disc. "Pictures of You" and "Fascination Street" were the other two DISINTEGRATION singles, and they got more airplay than your typical Cure song thanks to the group's relatively high profile at the time (in fact, "Fascination Street," the actual first single from the album, got re-released as a single after "Lovesong" and "Lullaby" got the group mainstream exposure), but I can see why they were pruned for a single-disc career-spanning singles comp. All four of them are on GALORE, the 1987-1997 "hits" collection. If you don't want to plunge right into the group's non-comp albums just yet, putting together STARING AT THE SEA and GALORE gives you a more comprehensive overview. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:22:04 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] [ot] ot goof! Sorry folks, that last one was supposed to go to the Loud Family list. My apologies. Darn that Eudora auto-complete and me typing "i" instead of "l." Hey, anyone else notice that we've been talking a lot about Wire and Wire-related stuff since Graeme left? He might actually want to read the list now! later, Miles, who is still laughing at the "Colin Numan" concept ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:20:04 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [loud-fans] Greatest Hits In a message dated 11/20/01 4:13:34 PM Central Standard Time, outdoorminer@mindspring.com writes: << (1) Why aren't there CD releases of their enormous and high-quality catalog of b-sides and rarities? The *cassette* of STARING AT THE SEA remains a better buy than the CD because it's got an album's worth of them, then there was THE CARNAGE VISORS, great moody stuff on the FAITH cassette... There's a whole boxed set's worth of them just waiting to be gathered or used as bonus tracks on reissues. (2) Why hasn't the band's catalog been remastered? The CDs of the 1980-85 catalog (i.e., CDs done from album masters in the late '80s) are particularly showing their age, plus they could tack on a ton of b-sides as per item #1... >> I have often wondered this myself.....so many good b-sides! (Splintered in Her Head springs to mind first) ...i'm sure there is bound to be some great unreleased stuff as well....maybe someday it will done....i hope.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:38:24 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... an excellent set of suggestions mark. all i can add is that i have my franco-belgian scouts out looking for parade ground and alain bashung , who i think we really should get involved. and maybe mc hancock can do some more wire covers in a garage stylee? just a thought......p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:39:27 +1100 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire on Video I got the Rockpalast show on video earlier this year, and I must say it was a revelation! My impression of Wire live (in the 70s incarnation) was based solely on Document & Eyewitness, which is, shall we say, 'difficult'. I knew that Wire started off being effectively unable to play their instruments, and the impression D&E left on me was that they still had a way to go to master them when it was recorded. However, Rockpalast was something else again. It is actually great fun to watch. The band are intriguing. Robert bangs away at the drums in a most unusual almost 'studiously precise' style, Graham looms around the stage like a sultry rock star, Colin seems like a somewhat demented Mr Bean (no offence intended it's just how it seemed to me), and Bruce lurks around in the dim recesses of the stage. The thing is, the songs are great: it is a selection of early material (first two albums) played most professionally. The hilarious part is the studio audience- a more bored looking bunch would be hard to find. Every now and then the camera pans across people who seem to be chatting amongst themselves, and at the end of each song there is a smattering of desultory applause. When Wire straggle out to the obligatory encore, someone shorts out for a song (about the only decent audience response in the whole thing), and Lewis sidles up to the microphone and quietly says: "We don't do requests", before the band launchs into an incendiary 'Pink Flag'. If you like early Wire you MUST get Rockpalast. Phillip from Australia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:50:47 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: giluz > I believe/hope Wire will probably tour to promote their new album, sometime > next year. > giluz And if their previous methodology is intact, they should be presenting work for the follow up album at those shows. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 01:27:12 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 Found this amusing little piece in the PostEverything comments section: RE: Swim Team #2 review arfur 19:35 20 Nov I don't mean to bite the hand that feeds but it seemed to me that the only duff tracks on the album are the ones made or produced by Colin Newman, who I understand is the Swim head honcho. I bought the album as it was only a fiver and it had some Silo tracks on it. Put it on and thought I'd note down any standouts for later purchase. All that happened was I thought everything was excellent but had to get up to skip through some horrors of Colins that he saw fit to include. Maybe he's just not as good as the rest of the roster? Still, found several bands whose stuff I will buy, so i'll be supporting Colin indirectly anyway! Just thought I'd mention it as everybody else on the forum seems intent on kissing arse. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:55:02 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 Personally I think Colin's 'Time Will Allow' is the best track on ST2. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:27:04 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 Eric, I agree. Shame he didn't put 'Cut the slack' on too. One of my favourite tracks of the year. Still, bodes well for the new album...... Mark << Personally I think Colin's 'Time Will Allow' is the best track on ST2. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:30:46 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 on 11/21/01 3:27 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Eric, > > I agree. Shame he didn't put 'Cut the slack' on too. One of my favourite > tracks of the year. Still, bodes well for the new album...... > > Mark What's Cut the Slack and where did you hear it? Please elaborate. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:43:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 Giluz, It was one of the tracks Colin presented on the Totally Radio webcast he gave earlier this year - c'mon Giluz, keep up ;-) It may be still there on www.totallyradio.com. They archive quite a lot of stuff. Mark << What's Cut the Slack and where did you hear it? Please elaborate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 02:44:37 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Swim Team #2 on 11/21/01 3:43 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Giluz, > > It was one of the tracks Colin presented on the Totally Radio webcast he gave > earlier this year - c'mon Giluz, keep up ;-) > > It may be still there on www.totallyradio.com. They archive quite a lot of > stuff. Actually I recorded it on MD - quite typical of me, to remember most of what Colin said on the show and not to remember the music. I'll check it out. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:55:08 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What if..... In a message dated 11/20/01 4:01:47 PM, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > >How about monikering an '80s Wire cover outfit "the Idealcopyists"? :-) just reminded me of our discussion (more than our attempt) at doing an online group music project. remember that? there were two basic ideas floating around: mine was sort of a dada/surreal approach similar to an exquisite corpse, where one person would collect and edit together tracks from all participants creating something of a sound collage. the other idea (which actually resulted in one entry) was for everyone to upload shareable tracks to (i think) an ftp site or something like that? i'm not sure cuz i'm not much more familiar with the technology now as i was then :o\ i just might be ready soon to try to start up this project again. heck, if we can pull it off, maybe there'd be something worth presenting to wire. which brings me to the mac discussion :o) i'm a lifelong macuser (mac's lifetime, not mine; i'm 37 btw), since 1984 i've had 3 macs, the newest being a powermac 8500 (same age as my son,7) :o( however, i'm lucky enough to have a new imac at work with imovie2 (which i'm currently learning to use). i'm also expecting another new imac, and my question to my fellow macusers is: do you know if any of the new imacs come with itunes? that would be quite nice! fingers crossed, paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:38:56 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] McMac Paul wrote: > which brings me to the mac discussion :o) i'm a lifelong macuser (mac's > lifetime, not mine; i'm 37 btw), since 1984 i've had 3 macs, the newest being > a powermac 8500 (same age as my son,7) :o( however, i'm lucky enough to have > a new imac at work with imovie2 (which i'm currently learning to use). i'm > also expecting another new imac, and my question to my fellow macusers is: do > you know if any of the new imacs come with itunes? that would be quite nice! >fingers crossed, >paul c.d. Yeah, another the mac-user! And Giluz too, he just wrote... Anyone else? Though I like mac's a lot, I'm not fanatic about them. It's just a tool and it all depends on what you do with it. [but what a fine tool it is!] I also have my 3rd mac at home. Began with Performa, then the first [bondi] imac and now a G4. The same one I use at work. Currently I'm a (web)designer/art-director at publishing company, but I just applied for a job as a video-designer [fingers crossed indeed]. What line of work are [all] you [IC-ers] in? [and mind you, not working can be a dayjob too] BTW, does anyone know more about Colin using the G4? What programs does he use, for instance? As far as I know all the new iMac-modell's have Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X, iTunes, iMovie 2 & AppleWorks 6. Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #354 *******************************