From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #347 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, November 16 2001 Volume 04 : Number 347 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Eno's Neverwhere [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Sonic Youth ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] Freud/Lacan [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Future Music [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] What is your favourite tea? [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Krupps [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] D&E [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF ["bartvandamme@home" ] Re: [idealcopy] D&E [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT:KLF [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] D&E [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Eno's Neverwhere ["Brian Young" ] [idealcopy] Thousand [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Future Music [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Future Music [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] Future Music [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Future Music [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT: 8 track cartridges [voyteck@webtv.net] [idealcopy] Calling AKM ["Brian Young" ] [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? [Miles Goosens ] SV: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? ["=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kans] Re: SV: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? [Paul Pietromonaco ] [idealcopy] Art and commerce, again; [MrSodium@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Opinions [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:10:14 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] Eno's Neverwhere A few years ago Eno composed the music for Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere BBC mini-series. Neil answered a faq on his site, www.neilgaiman.com, saying that excerpts from the soundtrack appear on Eno's last album. Does anyone know which album is that? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 05:14:17 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF the tate is , i guess , britains premiere modern art gallery. or at least the most famous. this was the place that paid a lot of money for a pile of bricks in the early 70's , handing an open goal to all those fans of pictures of bowls of fruit and thus initiating what has been voted the most boring conversation piece ever ("isn't it disgusting blah blah blah"). well worth a visit , one of my plans for next year is to visit the tate modern , a new place which they opened in the last year or so. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:28:46 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Sonic Youth >> What about Geffen, Dirty & Experimetal Jet Set.. >> does Butch Vig work for food & bed !?? >> who paid it !! >> are you mean on that garbage >> youth against fascism..and similar..naahh!!! > For me, their low point. Hmmm, I quite liked both Dirty & Experimetal Jet Set, but then again I quite like mostly all of their stuff. Only The Diamond Sea I don't dig that much. [esspecially the TM spoken-word crap] www.sonicyouth.com/history/ographies/index.html Kimberly Gordon: baritone saxophone Thurston Moore: harmonica Leonard Ranaldo: celeste Steven Shelley: glockenspiel and little instruments :-) Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:48:29 -0000 From: "Jerry" Subject: [idealcopy] Opinions All Sonic Youth sucks. That's my opinion... j - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.298 / Virus Database: 161 - Release Date: 13/11/01 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:04:55 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Freud/Lacan on 11/14/01 11:34 PM, Graeme Rowland at crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Michael had a valid opinion >>>>> I took a Lacan seminar in grad school. > I feel the same way about him as I do Freud: not much > of a scientist, but a brilliant creative writer. > > Freud is partially responsible for a lot of problems > in the Western world I feel. Imagine the basis of > psychology being espoused by a coke fiend analysing > the sexual repression of Victorian women. No wonder > our cheating 'leaders' still need crusades to get > themselves hard. Freud has become such a cliche, and so much emphasis has been put on the chauvinistic euro-centricism of his work that most people forget his works caused a great revolution, not only in the field of psychiastry, which almost didn't exist before, but also in almost all other aspects of life, and especially art (would German expressionists such as Murnau have nade the sane films without Freud? i doubt it). It's true - without Freud we wouldn't have Lacan, which is an extremely nice prospect, but we wouldn't have Jung too. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 07:42:52 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music Craig, << >>>And as for the Gary Numan comparison....if I was Colin Newman I would threaten to sue for deformation of character.<<< Fair enough if they were talking about some of A-Z, >> Bollocks. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:10:51 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] What is your favourite tea? Graeme, << But her spirit lingered on & regrettably still lingers on & the 'large black slug' resides in Piccadilly Manchester as observed by Mark Smith in 'City Hobgoblins'. >> Hence reference to said deceased monarch as QV (see MES's nice drawing of the Pic Gdns statue on reverse of Elastic Man sleeve!) >>the sexual repression of Victorian women.<< No probs for Victoria though, what with Prince Albert and his eponymous piercing... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:27:20 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Krupps Syarzhuk, << I am only familiar with late (1990s) Krupps' output (more heavy metal'ish), which didn't do much for me. Is this what they used to sound in 80s? What would be the good Krupps album to check out? >> Die Krupps made two fantastic 12 inch singles at the very start of their career. Wahre Arbeit, Wahrer Lohn (angry DAF with metal percussion) and its awesome predecssor Stahlwerksynfonie (Industrial Krautrock). You can get them both on the compilation Metal Maschinen Musik 1981-91, or seek out the originals via Ebay, Netsounds, Gemm etc. After the two singles they became more electronic/drum machine based, hence sound less exciting. There's a reasonable selection on the compilation. 90s stuff appears to be almost Death Metal, and is utter pants. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:30:56 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] D&E << Getting back on topic: What's your favorite song on "D&E"? Mine is "Piano Tuner" :) >> Toss up between 5/10 and ...and then. Prefer both Wire versions to the subsequent CN/Dome versions. I love D&E, and the album that would have resulted from those unreleased songs would have been astonishing. Would still make a good project for Wire today.... Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:07:25 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF > the tate is , i guess , britains premiere modern art gallery. or at least the > most famous. > > this was the place that paid a lot of money for a pile of bricks in the early > 70's , handing an open goal to all those fans of pictures of bowls of fruit > and thus initiating what has been voted the most boring conversation piece > ever ("isn't it disgusting blah blah blah"). Hmmm... Perhaps I'm getting you all wrong here Paul, but I don't think it's a good idea to judge modern art by it's [sometimes exuberantly high] prices. I think art never can be appreciated in the context of it's financial value. It's the same with music. I heard friends of mine dissing REM over an 80 million $ record deal. So what? What does that say about the music. It's stating money is of such importance that it has the power to pervert the arts and in my [ahem, humble] opinion that is not [necissarily] the case. I would like the arts [incl. music] to be an exciting place of idea's and possibilities without always having to be bothered with it's place in the market. For example, would any ICers treat Wire any differently if they somehow would make lots of money? I would say: cheers to them! > one of my plans for next year is to visit the tate modern > , a new place which they opened in the last year or so. p I was planning to visit the Tate Modern this year on the way to my brother [who just moved from the Netherlands to Mayfield, southern England] Cheers to you all... Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl icq: 106821124 PS Someone told me Wire [members] have once cooperated with Peter Greenaway. True? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:29:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] D&E i always liked ally in exile / relationships actually. but i guess you were talking about the LP not the 12" ? always love zfrg hwqp (or whatever its called). admired the choice of "eastern standard" on whore ; he was onto a resonable bet he'd be alone in that one. the colin/gary newman thing i'm afraid i can't really see. made me think it might be fun to hear muzak versions of wire songs (like the devo E-Z listening disc). i think gazza would be the pefect guy for the job , i can just picture a droning synth version of s-s-s-star eyes. or "b" . or "inventory". ever hear the damned's cover of "cars" (re-titled "gay bars")? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:41:27 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] OT:KLF Variously... >>> one of my plans for next year is to visit the tate modern > , a new place which they opened in the last year or so. p I was planning to visit the Tate Modern this year on the way to my brother [who just moved from the Netherlands to Mayfield, southern England] Brilliant building (former power station) Crap art gallery imho A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:51:37 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF i was joking actually.... agreed modern art gets a lot of stupid press (much of it from philistines) , the "bricks" thing became incredibly tedious as it gave everyone who hated modern art a very simple "what a waste of money" speech to bore everyone rigid with for about 30 years (and counting). personally i couldn't care less how much an artist gets paid in terms of judging the art , i'd always hope people i like can make a living but looking at my record collection i fear that may not be the case. like with art , i've always been drawn to things a bit off-centre. REM? much like U2 i think they've got into a groove where they put out a samey album every 3 years to keep the pension fund ticking over. which will probably be nothing dreadful but certainly nothing to get excited over. meanwhile its nice to see sting spending his hard-earned cash on concorder tickets. very eco-friendly maaan. i don't think. tosser. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:05:51 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF my posts seem to be turning out even more garbled than usual.blame AOL. hope that last one made some sense......p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:08:13 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone Does anybody out there own the He Said 12" for Watch Take Care ? or does this even exist?..I have heard rumours that it does and it was a promo only Mute Records 12" with three mixes of the track....If anyone does indeed have it and could tape it or cd burn it for me i would really appreciate it also, i can't seem to get the Wireviews webite to work on my computer for some reason..so, does anyone know when the Hox cd is due and where will it be available from? Wireviews? Posteverything? WMO UK? also, Does anyone know why the EAR/Trumpet lp was never reissued on cd for Wire completists? I am so mortified that i actual used to own that album and sold it (among other gems) when i was down on my luck...ever since then i have never sold anything that i didn't have doubles of.... also, what do most ideal copyists consider the rarest Wire related item? and which item drove you nuts trying to find? share your stories please! I think for me it was a toss up between MZUI lp and the AC Marias 7" "So/Drop"....... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:21:36 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone > Does anybody out there own the He Said 12" for Watch Take Care ? or does this even exist?..I have heard rumours that it does and it was a promo only Mute Records 12" with three mixes of the track....If anyone does indeed have it and could tape it or cd burn it for me i would really appreciate it /////pretty sure this never existed as an official release. but i think a tape of this is listed on the "wire page" list of bootlegs. so maybe a demo tape only? never seen anyone trying to sell a copy anyway. > also, Does anyone know why the EAR/Trumpet lp was never reissued on cd for Wire completists? I am so mortified that i actual used to own that album and sold it (among other gems) when i was down on my luck...ever since then i have never sold anything that i didn't have doubles of.... /////i guess it was a bit before cd's became so universal. got mine off gemm for not a lot of cash actually. > > also, what do most ideal copyists consider the rarest Wire related item? and which item drove you nuts trying to find? share your stories please! I think for me it was a toss up between MZUI lp and the AC Marias 7" "So/Drop"....... //// there's a copy of MZUI up on ebay as we speak ! drop/so is very rare indeed. putting the question another way , in about 15 years of wire collecting i've tried and failed to get the following ; pink flag 8-track (ultimate silly mega rarity?) big glue canal promo 12" commercial suicide cd insiding 3cd boxset the first 2 of these would be my bets for maybe the hardest wire things to track down. but i stand to be corrected. all of the above i've seen on sale but didn't fancy the price at the time. and have regretted it since.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:30:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] D&E Did it on a Peel session. Think I've got it on tape somewhere. Mark << ever hear the damned's cover of "cars" (re-titled "gay bars")? p >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:41:00 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone In a message dated 11/15/01 10:21:36 AM Central Standard Time, PaulRabjohn writes: << in about 15 years of wire collecting i've tried and failed to get the following ; pink flag 8-track (ultimate silly mega rarity?) big glue canal promo 12" commercial suicide cd insiding 3cd boxset >> Really Paul? Here in my hometown (St.Louis, Missouri USA) i see Commercial Suicide on cd pretty regularly (used for $8.99)....I just saw the Insiding 3 cd boxset go for fairly cheap on ebay....i had to buy mine from Tokyo for about $50 US dollars...worth every penny to me though!..I wish WMO would have reissued This Way and The Shivering Man on separate cds.... Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:50:41 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone i guess maybe CS is more common as an american issue cd than the european (crammed) one. but i never seem to see them on sale either in shops or mail order. i've only ever seen one on ebay and it went for about $60. i guess when they combined this way and shivering man onto a compilation that was the end of any chance of separate issues. so the jap 3cd set was quite surprising ; really can't see it getting a re-press. i have the first 4 BCG's on vinyl so that cd set would be really nice. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:05:42 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: a few Wire questions for everyone Robert, << Really Paul? Here in my hometown (St.Louis, Missouri USA) i see Commercial Suicide on cd pretty regularly (used for $8.99).... >> Well if you see them, buy them! You've got at least two customers here in the UK! >>I just saw the Insiding 3 cd boxset go for fairly cheap on ebay....i had to buy mine from Tokyo for about $50 US dollars...worth every penny to me though!..<< How long ago was this? Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:38:46 -0800 From: "Brian Young" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Eno's Neverwhere >A few years ago Eno composed the music for Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere >BBC >mini-series. Neil answered a faq on his site, www.neilgaiman.com, >saying >that excerpts from the soundtrack appear on Eno's last album. >Does anyone >know which album is that? I just listened to the 9 Eno Neverwhere tracks, and I can't place any of them as having shown up on a legitimate release. Although, being Eno, he could have taken any of the tracks, sped them up or slowed them down, processed them with effects, etc. After all, this is the man who allowed Ultravox to use one of his tracks wholesale for their first album (the song My Sex?) and then released it himself as something entirely different. Brian n.p. Projeckt One: Live @ Jazz Club London-4/12/97 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:22:48 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone > also, what do most ideal copyists consider the > rarest Wire related item? and > which item drove you nuts trying to find? share your > stories please! I think > for me it was a toss up between MZUI lp and the AC > Marias 7" "So/Drop"....... > > Robert Lynn Mute Promo Box Set for IBTABA. Contains vinyl ABIAC, TIC, 12"s, with cdsingles and press pack i.e. a load of photocopied sheets of reviews from Sounds, NME etc. Black box with WIRE logo on front (looks like it was photocopied and stuck on). As far as I am aware there were about ten made for the Rough Trade sales force to go out and sell the album to shops prior to IBTABA's release. I've got another one for Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation which has tour shirt, sub pop 7", album etc. Wouldn't even dare play or wear either of them let alone sell. Cheers John Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:42:53 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music - --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Craig, > << >>>And as for the Gary Numan comparison....if I > was > Colin Newman I would threaten to sue for > deformation of character.<<< > Fair enough if they were talking about some of A-Z, > >> > > Bollocks. > > Mark Uh, pardon? There are several tracks on that album that are very Numan as much as Newman. Even Colin said he cancelled OiO as a release as it sounded to GN... C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Thousand >>>Is the end of WMO US also the end of thousand records? As far as my understanding of the situation goes, all Thousand releases will be immediately OOP when WMO USA closes. To that end, anyone who hasn't got a copy of the Thermal + Seofon release should get one right away as it's bloody good. Pick up the Orbi CD while you're at it if you like LFO or Kraftwerk. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:19:37 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] a few Wire questions for everyone Without a doubt the Muzeum Traces cylinder, made for the Lewis/Gilbert/Mills exhibition at the Oxford Museum of Modern Art in 1984. According to Kevin's book they sold only a handful - though mine (bought on the night of the Wire comeback gig at the same venue in 85) is number 13. Anyone else got one?? Also anyone else got a genuine He Said promo badge? Mark << > also, what do most ideal copyists consider the > rarest Wire related item? and > which item drove you nuts trying to find? share your > stories please! I think > for me it was a toss up between MZUI lp and the AC > Marias 7" "So/Drop"....... > > Robert Lynn >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:22:51 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music Craig, << Uh, pardon? There are several tracks on that album that are very Numan as much as Newman. Even Colin said he cancelled OiO as a release as it sounded to GN... >> He must have been getting paranoid! I just can't see it....A-Z is 1,000,000 miles from anything G Numan ever made. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:23:25 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music Have to agree with Mark. Gary Numan is a pile of red leathery pants with phallic attachements as worn by a very sweaty dalek. Although he is still at large, still flying his big airfix kits, and happily married to one of his stalkers, he is still wanted by the Punk Rock Wars Tribunal for contravention of the Punk Rock Impersonation Act of 1978 where it is alleged that he did take on an assumed name, haircut and choice of musical instrument for purposes of misleading the record buying public, and also under the Misuse of an Independent Record Company Act of 1979 in which it is alleged that he did disseminate offensive materials likely to cause disturbance to a fan of independent music. Whilst the latter charge has been successfully brought against many artist ranging from Fiddlers Dram to Slowdive, the only known person previously convicted under both these charges is Toyah. Shorter comment: at least ELO are ELO. John - --- Wireviews wrote: > --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Craig, > > << >>>And as for the Gary Numan comparison....if I > > was > > Colin Newman I would threaten to sue for > > deformation of character.<<< > > Fair enough if they were talking about some of > A-Z, > > >> > > > > Bollocks. > > > > Mark > > Uh, pardon? > > There are several tracks on that album that are very > Numan as much as Newman. Even Colin said he > cancelled > OiO as a release as it sounded to GN... > > > C > > > > > > ===== > ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- > http://welcome.to/wireviews > News, reviews and dugga. > > VMU: http://listen.to/veer > SVA: http://welcome.to/snub > -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:30:55 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music John, Not to mention the RSPCA, who are after him for keeping a sedated Chinchilla on his head. Mark << Have to agree with Mark. Gary Numan is a pile of red leathery pants with phallic attachements as worn by a very sweaty dalek. Although he is still at large, still flying his big airfix kits, and happily married to one of his stalkers, he is still wanted by the Punk Rock Wars Tribunal for contravention of the Punk Rock Impersonation Act of 1978 where it is alleged that he did take on an assumed name, haircut and choice of musical instrument for purposes of misleading the record buying public, and also under the Misuse of an Independent Record Company Act of 1979 in which it is alleged that he did disseminate offensive materials likely to cause disturbance to a fan of independent music. Whilst the latter charge has been successfully brought against many artist ranging from Fiddlers Dram to Slowdive, the only known person previously convicted under both these charges is Toyah. Shorter comment: at least ELO are ELO. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:56:40 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future Music In a message dated 11/15/01 1:50:02 PM Central Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << John, Not to mention the RSPCA, who are after him for keeping a sedated Chinchilla on his head. >> hahahhahahha well even i have to agree with that.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:13:12 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: 8 track cartridges For anyone curious of 8-track history, buy or sell tapes, home, car, & portable decks: http://www.8trackheaven.com/ Enormous classified ads / vendors sections; too short a lifetime to sift through to find 'Pink Flag' tape IMO. Best thought probably to place requests on 'wanted' board. Rgds, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:30:14 -0800 From: "Brian Young" Subject: [idealcopy] Calling AKM Anthony Kyle Monday, could you please e-me off list? Thanks, Brian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 15:03:07 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? I have a few things to report and comments to make before we let the latest run-ins go. * Both Graeme and Mileta have left the list. * I don't regard this as a good thing. Both have unique perspectives and a wide-ranging understanding of music, and they will be missed. Graeme in particular is a gifted, cracklingly good writer whose commentary informed, entertained, and amused. I'd chuckle or guffaw even if the position he was taking was 180 degrees from mine, and that's a sure sign of quality. * Nevertheless, bullying, ridicule, and name-calling aren't welcome on idealcopy. Spirited opinions and debates about music are one thing, but letting that turn into ad hominem attacks is quite another. If another listmember's opinions seem specious or ill-considered, then feel free to argue against *those opinions,* not against the person. I want this list to be a place where people feel free to contribute; if they're holding back their opinions for fear of someone turning them into a running joke, then it's not a list I'd like to belong to, much less administer! Civility isn't just a request, it's a requirement of list membership. * Since the list built momentum in '99 and became the high-traffic monstrosity that it is today, the signal-to-noise ratio does get high sometimes. I understand frustration with this, I really do. If you don't want to wade through a host of off-topic posts, here are some suggestions (all of which have been previously offered by myself and/or other listmembers): - Switch to the digest. You get fewer messages (one a day or one every 45k, depending on traffic), and it's easier to ignore what you don't want to read. - It's sometimes better to leave alone a thread you don't like. As giluz pointed out a little while back, posts about how you don't like this or that topic often end up prolonging the discussion! See if the thread dies before weighing in yourself. - Most e-mail software supports filtering of some sort. For example, if I decided that I never wanted to read another word Mileta wrote, I could make sure his mail was delivered straight to the Trash folder rather than bedevil him on-list. - Perhaps the most revolutionary option: If you don't see enough Wire-related discussion, why not start a Wire-related discussion yourself? Better to light a candle, etc. Overall, I'm proud of the list, and no matter how off-topic we veer, I'm still confident that you won't find another list that has as much Wire-related content as idealcopy. With Wire gearing up for increased activity in 2002, the dugga-to-dross ratio will certainly right itself! later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:17:55 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? Were they kicked off the boards or did they leave of their own accord? Certainly we can all work this out? I am quite fond of the both of them and they are both certainly knowledgeable....I have learned a lot and discovered a lot of great music through both of their suggestions.....I am saddened to think that i won't be able to read their posts anymore or chit chat with them.....can anything be done to bring my friends back? Both are really great guys don't all of you agree? Thanks for listening, Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:25:42 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Miles / Newman-Numan / Piquet 1. Well said Miles 2 A-Z, Gary Numanish? Naaah! The *only* minor similarity, and it's tenuous, does indeed come on Order for Order; the delivery of the line 'Beware it's worth' sounds ever so slightly like Gary Numan. After that, nothing. Possibly the thought of even one not very intelligent person saying "Have you heard him, he thinks he's Gary Numan, and he even calls himself Newman, how lame is that?' forced him to wake up bolt upright and sweating. I love A-Z! 3. Any views on Piquet's Faulty Caress? I'm playing it as I write. It doesn't get many outings here, but I highly rate it each time it does. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:59:15 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 2001 top 10 >How about an end of year fave top 10. The rules are >that they must be records/cd's released/bought OR >discovered in 2001, therefore allowing any 'old' >records a chance to shine. in no particular order, as requested... Bonnie Prince Billy - Ease Down The Road (CDLP) Thee Michelle Gun Elephant - Casanova Snake (CDLP) The Strokes - Hard To Explain (7") Half Man Half Biscuit - Editor's Recommendation (CDEP) Richard Hell & The Voidoids - Blank Generation (LP) New Order - Crystal (CDs) Stephen Malkmus - Stephen Malkmus (CDLP) The New Year - Newness Ends (CDLP) The Stanley Brothers - Too Late To Cry (CDLP) X-Ray Spex - Anthology (CDLP) (i can't remember if '12 Times You' was bought this year or not, time just goes by too fast lately... if it WAS, it can take the place of 'Crystal'!!!!) all very boring to SOME of you, i'm sure. with the exception of The Stanley Brothers, all very punk/post-punk but all top quality as far as i'm concerned... happy ramadan everyone, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:57:15 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kansson=2C_Anders?=" Subject: SV: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? Miles, I agree with R Lynn, this has to got to be solved. We can not just let Graeme leave/get kicked out of the list. I must say I find the reason for this mail from you rather strange. I agree with you that they should take their internal arguing off list but to not have Graeme on the list is like, well skipping the list all together!!! The insight in everything Wire that has been Graemes contribution to the list can not be ignored. Is there no other way to solve this? Anders from Sweden - -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fren: Miles Goosens Till: idealcopy@smoe.org Datum: den 15 november 2001 22:02 Dmne: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? >I have a few things to report and comments to make before we let the latest >run-ins go. > >* Both Graeme and Mileta have left the list. > >* I don't regard this as a good thing. Both have unique perspectives and a >wide-ranging understanding of music, and they will be missed. Graeme in >particular is a gifted, cracklingly good writer whose commentary informed, >entertained, and amused. I'd chuckle or guffaw even if the position he was >taking was 180 degrees from mine, and that's a sure sign of quality. > >* Nevertheless, bullying, ridicule, and name-calling aren't welcome on >idealcopy. Spirited opinions and debates about music are one thing, but >letting that turn into ad hominem attacks is quite another. If another >listmember's opinions seem specious or ill-considered, then feel free to >argue against *those opinions,* not against the person. I want this list >to be a place where people feel free to contribute; if they're holding back >their opinions for fear of someone turning them into a running joke, then >it's not a list I'd like to belong to, much less administer! Civility >isn't just a request, it's a requirement of list membership. > >* Since the list built momentum in '99 and became the high-traffic >monstrosity that it is today, the signal-to-noise ratio does get high >sometimes. I understand frustration with this, I really do. If you don't >want to wade through a host of off-topic posts, here are some suggestions >(all of which have been previously offered by myself and/or other listmembers): > > - Switch to the digest. You get fewer messages (one a > day or one every 45k, depending on traffic), and it's > easier to ignore what you don't want to read. > > - It's sometimes better to leave alone a thread you don't > like. As giluz pointed out a little while back, posts > about how you don't like this or that topic often end > up prolonging the discussion! See if the thread dies > before weighing in yourself. > > - Most e-mail software supports filtering of some sort. > For example, if I decided that I never wanted to read > another word Mileta wrote, I could make sure his mail > was delivered straight to the Trash folder rather > than bedevil him on-list. > > - Perhaps the most revolutionary option: If you don't > see enough Wire-related discussion, why not start a > Wire-related discussion yourself? Better to light a > candle, etc. > >Overall, I'm proud of the list, and no matter how off-topic we veer, I'm >still confident that you won't find another list that has as much >Wire-related content as idealcopy. With Wire gearing up for increased >activity in 2002, the dugga-to-dross ratio will certainly right itself! > >later, > >listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:15:19 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: SV: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? Hi everyone, I'm speaking for Miles here, but both Mileta and Graeme left the list of their own accord. I'm sure that The Ideal Copy list would welcome both members back with open arms should they choose to re-subscribe. It's really up to them, I'd say. Cheers, Paul >Miles, >I agree with R Lynn, this has to got to be solved. >We can not just let Graeme leave/get kicked out of the list. >I must say I find the reason for this mail from you rather strange. >I agree with you that they should take their internal arguing off list >but to not have Graeme on the list is like, well skipping the list all together!!! >The insight in everything Wire that has been Graemes contribution to the list >can not be ignored. >Is there no other way to solve this? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:35:41 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: SV: [idealcopy] the idealcopy is what you want? on 11/16/01 2:57 AM, Hekansson, Anders at anders.hakansson_i_surte@telia.com wrote: > Miles, > I agree with R Lynn, this has to got to be solved. > We can not just let Graeme leave/get kicked out of the list. > I must say I find the reason for this mail from you rather strange. > I agree with you that they should take their internal arguing off list > but to not have Graeme on the list is like, well skipping the list all > together!!! > The insight in everything Wire that has been Graemes contribution to the list > can not be ignored. > Is there no other way to solve this? > > Anders from Sweden I'll second this one - not much to add, since Anders expressed it so well. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:51:37 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: KLF on 11/15/01 5:07 PM, bartvandamme@home at bartvandamme@home.nl wrote: > Hmmm... Perhaps I'm getting you all wrong here Paul, but I don't think it's > a good idea to judge modern art by it's [sometimes exuberantly high] prices. > I think art never can be appreciated in the context of it's financial value. > It's the same with music. I heard friends of mine dissing REM over an 80 > million $ record deal. So what? What does that say about the music. It's > stating money is of such importance that it has the power to pervert the > arts and in my [ahem, humble] opinion that is not [necissarily] the case. Look around you - there are countless examples. > > I would like the arts [incl. music] to be an exciting place of idea's and > possibilities without always having to be bothered with it's place in the > market. But its place in the market have an enormous influence on the content. Even if you do still like REM after they've turned mega (or any other such band - I'm just using them as an example), you'd have to admit their music since then, as uncompromising as you think it might have been, did not introduce new ideas and possibilities. So basically I don't care how much a person earns as long as this doesn't influence the art. Since this is not the case I think it is my concern. It just isn't possible for artists today not to compromise when they get to that position. > For example, would any ICers treat Wire any differently if they somehow > would make lots of money? I would say: cheers to them! There's nothing personal about it - I don't dis these artists on the ground of making money. Lots of them worked hard for long years to get to where they are today. The question is not how we would treat Wire if they turned mega - the question is how would it influence their music. Colin pointed out recently that Wire were lucky not to have had a hit single. I think that's exactly what he meant. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:58:44 EST From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Art and commerce, again; The comments about ST2 have piqued my interest. Anyone know anything about how ~swim releases are distributed in the US? I have never ever seen one of theirs in a retail store. A couple of posts lately have namechecked Momus. I got a 2cd set of his the other day that purports to resurrect the practice of patronage, i.e., a musical piece created in return for financial support. On this cd, he wrote a song about the donor in return for a cash contribution. It raises the question whether this concept alone is enough to create interest in a song written about someone you know nothing about (other than Jeff Koons (maybe I need to get out more, but the rest of the patrons are anonymous to me)). So far, my answer is no. As for at least one of the departed, even the most artfully presented insight and knowledge fails to justify abusive conduct. After all, a frosted dog turd is not a birthday cake. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 00:11:50 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Opinions In a message dated 11/15/01 6:47:13 AM, fleamusic@totalise.co.uk writes: >All Sonic Youth sucks. That's my opinion... wow. certainly, EVERYONE is entitled to his/her own opinion, but i'm curious if you've heard all sonic youth. i'm a fan and haven't even heard all of it. is your opinion based on hearing early 80's, mid-late 80's, and 90's-present sy recordings? just curious. - -paul c.d. now playing: bad moon rising ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #347 *******************************