From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #341 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, November 12 2001 Volume 04 : Number 341 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] R.E.M.'s Reveal... ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [OT] Shonen Knife (was Re: [idealcopy] Re: boredoms) [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Attrition ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) watching paint & listening to fruit. [CHRISWIRE@aol.c] RE: [idealcopy] RE: [OT] Shonen Knife [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] OT Goodbye Tonsils ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT Attrition ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] New s*bscriber ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber ["ian.s. jackson" ] [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release [eric719@webtv.net (Eric St] Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT Attrition [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT Goodbye Tonsils [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) watching paint & listening to fruit. [RLynn9@aol.c] Re: [idealcopy] end of WMO [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber [Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R.E.M.'s Reveal... > Why would they be under pressure? They've never done any musical attempt to > threaten the music industry, even in their pre-stadium 80's days. > > giluz well, like it or not, REM somehow, in my opinion was different from in one time increasing US " rock ' like Los Lobos, Del Fuegos, Long Ryders etc, etc.. and their first albums was good. for me , of course . . when they signed that atronomic contract, like they or not , some label expectations was big... i like Automatic For The People and is my favourite, but other ones are so-so ... if is to believed some rumours inside the band, every new one is from leading role of different member...,so they tried to all those thing mixed in one... that's my opinion why many of REM last albums seems so unfinished.. of course, there are some brilliant ones, but also bad ones.. and they doesn' t seems like people who doesn' t care for quality of record(s). so, that is why i think they are not under pressure, but their problem seems different one ( if there is problem at all !! ). i respected them, and i will like that stadium bands be like REM, Depeche Mode, The Cure etc, etc... ( simple minds not included..) remember all those Cure show in US with supporting of Cranes & Curve . That was personal choice of Robert Smith and bigger promotion of bands. Their labels cannot afford such a promotion.. So, never mind that they are superstars, and that their moves are slightly predictable i respected them at all...!! mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 03:52:27 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Attrition I've just had a look at the Attrition official site. I'm convinced there's a bit of MES style revisionism going on here. If my memory serves me right they were around for a while before the dates in their official history. This would be when they were a dodgy punk band though. I've got a mate who used to live in Leamington Spa nr Coventry who I'm sure has really early stuff of theirs. Or have I got the wrong band? John - --- Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/10/01 3:08:51 AM, > baltazar@panet.bits.net writes: > > > > > > >Anyone into Attrition ? > > > >I must told you that i listen few of their albums > in row through > > > >all this week ( & will follow through the week-end > !! ) > > i have a few things by them. same story as with most > of the waxtrax, etc... i > concentrated on the cabs, sev heads, wire, 23 > skidoo, i guess you could count > new order and section 25 in there for a bit > (although they both stuck with > the guitars more, as did i with most of my record > buying). attrition has a > bunch of stuff available online for download. sorry > i can't remember an url, > but it should come up in a search for "attrition + > mp3" > > cheers, > > paul c.d. Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 03:57:24 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [OT] Shonen Knife (was Re: [idealcopy] Re: boredoms) Well, I'm going on having seen them once live several years ago. I think we're off into the realms of postmodern pastiche again. I just thought they were like DeeLite with guitars. I can't believe that they do what they do unselfconsciously. I don't think they rock - they were far too twee for that. Certainly not the Slits. Even Britney Spears has more balls than the performance I saw of S Knife. Sorry!! 8-) Cheers John - --- Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > >Shonen Knife are meant to be taken seriously. > >Discuss. > > > > Yes, they are. They are not a comedy act. If > people find them funny, > that's their problem. (^_^) > > What I love about Shonen Knife is that they play > 60's garage rock, in a > totally unselfconscious way, and sing about the > things that matter to > them. If a song like "Twist Barbie" seems odd, > that's a reflection of > Western Culture as seen through an outsider's eyes. > It's like taking a > puzzle apart and putting it back together in an odd, > cool way. > > Or, maybe I'm reading too much into this. (^_^) > > Some of the most fun I've had at rock concerts were > at their shows. > There was this one show where, right in the middle > of the set, they > took out cheap, tourist cameras, and snapped > pictures of us from the > stage. This was at Moe's in Seattle, and numerous > Seattle rock > celebrities were in attendance. > > Unfortunately, Shonen Knife is now a duo. Although > their PowerPuff > Girls track "I'm a super girl" sounds like > traditional Shonen Knife, > their latest album "Strawberry Sound" has more > synthesizers in the mix, > and isn't quite as innocent. Still, if you're a > fan, it's pretty good. > > Cheers, > Paul* > > * who I bet you never knew was a huge Shonen Knife > fan...(^_^) Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:47:17 -0600 From: "r\)\(0\)\(m" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:[OT?] farewell tours i drove 4 hours on 15 minutes notice in 1975 to see a show on the Stones' then rumoured 'farewell tour' someone's always done it before, and often better i beleivve bowie 'retired' a few times as well > yeah, but the cure have been breaking up for more than a decade now, so what > else is new? ///sorry but i do snigger at these "farewell tour" stunts. bit status quo really , isn't it? p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:08:37 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Attrition > I've just had a look at the Attrition official site. > I'm convinced there's a bit of MES style revisionism > going on here. If my memory serves me right they were > around for a while before the dates in their official > history. This would be when they were a dodgy punk > band though. I've got a mate who used to live in > Leamington Spa nr Coventry who I'm sure has really > early stuff of theirs. Or have I got the wrong band? > > John > yes, you are right . . . !! from a horse mouth !!! "Originally I had been writing a fanzine in Coventry called "Alternative Sounds" around 79/80 - all the post punk groups like Joy Division, PIL, Banshees, Cabaret Voltaire, and the local scene which was quite healthy at the time. "It became inevitable that I try my own hand at some music, and I formed a band around me including Julia (Waller, the only other permanent member of Attrition to this day) who was then my girlfriend and a few others. That line-up was vocals/bass/drums/guitar - not a synth in sight!" The synth-less Attrition lasted a literal micro-second in history. "We did four gigs like that! We got rid of the guitarist, who was my brother, and got Juila's brother Ashley in on cheap, monophonic synthesiser - after all it was 1981! Later he got a second synth, and the drummer left so I brought a drum machine. We started to build up a little 4- track studio for recording our own demos and got more and more into experimenting with electronics. in fact we didn't play live in '82. We re-emerged as a new, electronic based band, and in '83 stared to play in London." It was a time of youthful energy created a climate when anything could happen. And Attrition were riding the wave of success in leaps and bounds. "We got our first real national press, and got our first track on vinyl -'Dreamsleep' on the 'Elephant Table' album. It all exploded in 1984 when we got signed to Third Mind. We moved to London, started touring Europe, released our first album and a couple of 12" singles...." mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:34:45 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] R.E.M.'s Reveal... on 11/11/01 2:52 PM, Mileta Okiljevic at baltazar@panet.bits.net wrote: >> Why would they be under pressure? They've never done any musical attempt > to >> threaten the music industry, even in their pre-stadium 80's days. >> >> giluz > > well, like it or not, REM somehow, in my opinion was different from in one > time > increasing US " rock ' like Los Lobos, Del Fuegos, Long Ryders etc, etc.. > and their > first albums was good. for me , of course . . I didn't say they were bad (I didn't say they were good either). I quite liked REM in the 80's, but now I can't listen to a single whine by Michael Stipe, no matter when it was recorded. All I meant was that their music, good or bad, was never a threat to the music industry. > so, that is why i think they are not under pressure, but their problem seems > different one ( if there is problem at all !! ). > i respected them, and i will like that stadium bands be like REM, Depeche > Mode, > The Cure etc, etc... ( simple minds not included..) > remember all those Cure show in US with supporting of Cranes & Curve . That > was > personal choice of Robert Smith and bigger promotion of bands. Their labels > cannot > afford such a promotion.. > So, never mind that they are superstars, and that their moves are slightly > predictable > i respected them at all...!! Yeah, and REM took Robyn Hitchcock to support them in the early 90's. It's very nice of all those people (though I don't think Curve shows a very good taste), but they were all at the right place at the right time and their music only got worse as a consequence. You can't help compromising when you're this big - I don't believe it's even their fault, but that just makes it sad and pathetic. You're not only doing music, you're doing business and you're getting into a state where everything you do has to be calculated and planned in advance because of the impact it'd have on your image or sales. I'm not saying that it's an axiom - Big Money Ruins Good Music - I'm just saying that it's much harder to do, and for this you really need a very particular kind of talent. I'm sure all those artists would have made better albums if they didn't turn that huge. I still haven't found an artist or band to prove me wrong about this (no, the Beatles are not a good example - that was a completely different situation). It's just like all these Hollywood directors who trully believe that good films can be made inside the system. Well, maybe it worked 60 years ago but it doesn't today, not in the kind of industry we have now, and it's the same with the music industry (even the same corporations). heh-heh - I turned another topic into a political one. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:54:32 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) Tim froze & bitched >>>>The Strokes album makes no impact on me whatsoever. It leaves me cold. It makes me feel old. Its style over content, and its all over the bloody music press and I think its crap. Its Unit-shifting radio friendly f**king shit which presses all the right UK music media buttons and has been marketed to death like a new brand of soft drink. Yes I always thought rock'n'roll was supposed to be exciting. Strokes are nearly (but not quite) as nonadrenalizing as the tepid blandness of Manic Street Preachers or Elasticker. >>>>What I need right now is real *innovation* and real *excitement*....are The Strokes really the best the young of the 21st century can do? Emphatically: NO! They are as boring as FSOL & StyLab (who are less exciting than the proverbial drying paint) It continued >>>>Rip off The Velvets...again?!!! Lets re-heat the bleeding obvious and dress it up in cool haircuts and leather trousers? What utter bollocks! Hey! Rock on man! I almost totally agree w/ Tim here!!! But whoo OMD rock harder than the Strokes & comparin' 'em to VU oughtta have Cale & Reed back on speakin' terms if only to pan yr head in for doin' their legacy down!!! Now, the White Stripes kinda deserve da hype, man!! Oooch rockin' time!!!! Even if Jon Spencer already dun it good 'n' bitchin' betta!!!!!! [Slips out of rawk speak sham mode] Strokes haircuts made NO impression on MY consciousness whatsoever! Their music is background ambience... is that what PUNK has become? Er, not at all but in some quarters clueless dollar eye dullards might like you to believe that. Safe, boring mediocrity... Fugazi piss on this weak strokey stoker crap! Er, well oui monsieur as far as dem rockin' US outfits go the beyest I have a hurd in many a year be FLUX INFORMATION SCIENCES whose 'Private/Public' album on Michael Gira's Young God label was a highlight for me this year as all too few new releases made me feel like smashin' it up big time & this one rekindled a metal bashin' rhythmic rock lust the like of which only Pussy Galore, Cop Shoot Cop, Neubauten, Jesus Lizard & (perversely) the no wave spewgasm coulda fired in me loins a previously. WEEE rawk on TOmmyy!!! Wire to tour UK w/ FIS & Silo in support next year? I'd love it all! Let Flux be my first besta vote peoples. And t'other night I hadda dream o'Husker Du! Rawk on TOOOOMMMMMYYYY! Mileta painted funny pictures >>>>after Thurston description of Boredoms i make apicture that is japanese band sound like Napalm Death sleep on halfway To Chrome !! hmm, can anything be like that..? Boredoms are WAAAYY better than that!!! I've seen them perform live and it was fucking amazing!!!!! ND & Chrome are boring old toss in comparison!!!!!!! Ever heard the Jesus Lizard's Chrome single - pisses on the originals... saw Helios Creed live once & was fairly nonplussed... enjoyed Vertigo better at the same gig. John Roberts recalled >>>>I saw Shonen Knife support Nirvana at Birmingham Hummingbird. I was at that gig. SK were tedious soulless crap. Nirvana played the weakest gig I saw on that tour (having already seen them in Wolverhmapton & Manchester). Wolverhampton gig was one of a trio before TeenS exploded & they played for well over an hour & were more relaxed & obviously less pressured & enjoying it more. Started with Vaselines cover I think... B'ham was incredibly sweaty & full of people in crap metal t-shirts. I think the extreme heat might have had something to do with the truncated set. In pub Sat nite heard Nirvana Sappy/Everything & Nothing/Verse Chorus Verse which was a welcome & unusual choice from the DJ (I could live happily without hearing In Bloom or Come As You Are Ever again, but the rest of Nevermind still sounds great). Paul remembered penknife girls >>>>Some of the most fun I've had at rock concerts were at their shows. There was this one show where, right in the middle of the set, they took out cheap, tourist cameras, and snapped pictures of us from the stage. Such excitement! I bet everyone nearly died from it! [sarcasm intended here]. If only Wire did that I'd have enjoyed the RFH & Garage & Edinburgh gigs about 1.000000000000000000000000002 times more!!!! Mileta spouted endlessly >>>>Well, after Swanic & Ciccone Youth, why they didn' t call EP Boredom Youth..after Goo and some things i expected C(r)a(r)penters Youth... Since you said you haven't listened to them since Goo, maybe you should go & listen to the records they've made since before slagging them. They are certainly more interesting than tedious overblown stadium bore rawk like bloody Simple Minds (not that that's any recommendation) or cliched histrionic goth shlock like Sisters of Mercy or mammy I'm depressed in a stadium preset synth crud like Depeche Mode. Try the red SYR1 ep - it's superb. SY Carpenters cover crapped on all Simple Minds & SOM & DM tracks ever (not that that's difficult). >>>>what happened with Lydia Lunch & gun into vagina?? Maybe you can find out at www.lydialunch.org ????????? I know I can't, so please do let us all know!!!! More to come, hum hum... Graeme np OMD first album #1 'mint' haven't heard it for about 15 years 'til now... not bad for an obvious Kraftwerk rip off... [Please put away yr bloody borrowed Lester Bangs book] Find a job? Fuck off! www.yahoo.cheapo_ad_crap_ignored_by_millions ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:38:02 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] R.E.M.'s Reveal... >if is to believed some rumours inside the band, >every new one is from leading role >of different member...,so they tried to all those >thing mixed in one... that's my opinion why many >of REM last albums seems so unfinished.. You don't happen to know which R.E.M. album were helmed by which member, do you? (^_^) By the way, Peter Buck lives in Seattle now. He's mostly been busy (besides getting in fights on British Airways) working with The Minus Five. (i.e. his buddy Scott McCaughey from local heroes The Young Fresh Fellows.) I have to admit, Reveal didn't do too much for me. (Didn't hate it - Don't particularly remember it either. (^_^)) But I quite like the new Minus 5 album "Let The War Against Music Begin". (In fact, the edition I have comes bundled with the latest Young Fresh Fellows album "Because We Hate You" in a double CD where the artwork lets you pit the CDs against each other.) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:50:19 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] RE: [OT] Shonen Knife >Well, I'm going on having seen them once >live several years ago. I think we're off >into the realms of postmodern pastiche again. >I just thought they were like DeeLite with guitars. >I can't believe that they do what they do unselfconsciously. Believe it. (^_^) You should hear their first couple of albums. You'd think it was the rebirth of the Troggs. Seriously. From the Japanese interviews I've read, Shonen Knife were three school girls (two sisters and a close friend) who liked the Beatles and other 60's rock bands and decided to form a band. Which is a rare thing for Japanese girls to do, from what I'm told. They couldn't play, but they decided to try anyway. From what I understand, they aren't that big in Japan, but a bunch of American musicians idolize them precisely for their unselfconsciousness. Nowadays, Naoko can actually play, (she's the singer and guitarist) and from the tone of their last album, it sounds like maybe she's starting to realize that Shonen Knife might be outgrowing their original concept. Still, I get a kick out of them. Cheers, Paul P.S. You should see this Japanese book I picked up at one of their shows - it's like a secret history of Shonen Knife. Now, *that's* pretty intense! (^_^) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:50:34 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) watching paint & listening to fruit. In a message dated 11/11/01 18:58:14 GMT Standard Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > They are as boring as FSOL & StyLab (who are less > exciting than the proverbial drying paint) > > Hi Graeme, Of course you have every write to express that opinion.It's total bollocks but you do have the right. N.P.Bruce Gilbert - Music For Fruit BTW my wife thinks it's crap.I'll still eat her Sunday lunch though.It's great. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:59:59 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: [OT] Shonen Knife >You should hear their first couple of albums. >You'd think it was the rebirth of the Troggs. >Seriously. Ooops - wrong obscure 60's rock group. I meant The Shaggs. Check out their bio: http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=B61e67ub0h0j3 Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 20:39:05 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Goodbye Tonsils - ----- Original Message ----- From: > I bought all three of those too.That Goodbye Tonsils is still up there > amongst my fave 12" purchases of all time. > Chris Did you see the video for that on Max Headroom? I still have it somewhere. Imagine that! Severed Heads on national television at about 6pm on a Saturday evening ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:17:15 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Attrition - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mileta Okiljevic > Anyone into Attrition ? > I must told you that i listen few of their albums in row through > all this week ( & will follow through the week-end !! ) > > mileta I kind of knew Attrition in the early Eighties. I have a few tracks by them dotted on various compilations. I never acquired any of their own releases though, despite the fact that I quite liked what they did. Are they still going? Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:17:27 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] New s*bscriber - ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa Beatrice Kolman > > I would be open to any recommendations regarding solo projects, as I just > became employed again and can buy CD's now. Lisa Given what you wrote I'd recommend the following as starting points (in no overall order); Colin Newman; A-Z and Not To (and then Commercial Suicide) HALO - Immanent He Said - Hail He Said Omala - Catch Supposes Bruce Gilbert - The Shivering Man Dome - Yclept And start moving onwards and outwards from there. 80s Wire is just fine, and for me stands up just as well as anything else they've done. I personally have no affection for Pink Flag (I tried again the other night, but only a handful of tracks do anything for me) but everything since has been quality. The Wireviews website has reviews of most (all?) items which might give a flavour of some of these releases (tho' don't trust the A-Z review). Happy listening Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:31:05 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber welcome lisa, further to Ian B's recommendations... as you're one of the '80's' Wire contingent, i'd recommend Colin's 'Commercial Suicide' and 'It Seems' LP's first off, then 'Not To', then '...Singing Fish', then 'A-Z'. personally, i love them all, but the early ones are a bit harsher on the ear than 'C.M.' and 'I.S.'. once again, at this point, i have to admit to not hearing 'Bastard' yet (eternal shame...) but i suspect that this should be another that you check out first. happy listening, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:45:22 -0500 From: "Lisa Beatrice Kolman" Subject: [idealcopy] Thank you to both Ians! ...welcome lisa, further to Ian B's recommendations... and Given what you wrote I'd recommend the following as starting points (in no overall order);...Happy listening, Ian B. Thank you, both Ians, for your recommendations, I appreciate it. Now that I am starting my BRAND NEW JOB tomorrow, (Monday), I'll be able to splurge and buy music once again!! Oh, and just as an aside, Michael Stipe gets on my nerves. Old REM RULES! Thanks again, have a great week, everyone, Lisa/Philadelphia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:44:52 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Goodbye Tonsils In a message dated 11/11/01 4:14:44 PM, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > > >Did you see the video for that on Max Headroom? I still have it somewhere. > >Imagine that! Severed Heads on national television at about 6pm on a > >Saturday evening i watched max headroom fairly regularly, but never noticed or saw that! i'm sure i would've noticed if i had seen that episode. that is something, though, and would still be today! i wish a current show would venture out like that. now that i think about it, i don't watch any tv programs that aren't animated, except for the occasional star trek re-run late at night. haven't seen one episode of the new one, enterprise. are there any worthwhile shows on u.s. television these days? - -paul c.d. (who actually played goodbye tonsils 12" and city slab horror lp today...with the family home! my daughter danced to 4wd and ayoompteyempt, hehe) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 15:02:46 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber >further to Ian B's recommendations... >as you're one of the '80's' Wire contingent, >i'd recommend Colin's 'Commercial Suicide' and >'It Seems' LP's first off, then 'Not To', then >'...Singing Fish', then 'A-Z'. Interesting. As one of the (card carrying?) members of the 80's Wire contingent, I would have recommended A-Z first, then It Seems and Not To, and then, much farther down, Commercial Suicide. That's the order I tend to prefer them, although Not To and It Seems switch places often. Commercial Suicide, although I appreciate the songwriting, is just too sedate for me. Bastard is well done, but I prefer anything that Colin sings on over his instrumental work. (Hence, I love the new Swim sampler track Time Will Allow, while Tsunami seems to need a vocal. (^_^)) This goes for Provisionally Entitled the Singing Fish as well, but since it's included with Not To, I haven't separated it out. Also, for my 2 cents worth, I would recommend He Said's Take+Care as well. As heretical as it sounds, that's my favorite Graham solo record, followed closely by H.A.L.O. Immanent. Hail is too dense for me to absorb properly - and I've tried a number of times. (^_^). I'm not too familiar with the Graham+Bruce work, or Bruce's solo material, so I won't comment on those. (I thought that Instant Shed, Vol. 1 was great! But, that's pretty obscure...(^_^)) However, I do enjoy the A.C. Marias album and it's worth getting if you can find it. (That's Bruce + Angela Conway). Most of all, have fun with this! Wire's solo albums are of exceptionally high quality overall. Each person on this list has very passionate views about each of them, which is more than you can say for the solo albums from members of Yes or Kiss, for example. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:38:58 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] end of WMO First of all I would like to thank Kevin Eden and the rest for his work over the last years by managing his Wiremailorder. A couple of days to go and then it's all history. And what will be next. Hopefully Colin could find energy and money for going on releasing old and new Wire material. And after reading the new wireviews and Graeme Rowland's interview with Colin it looks good. I saw last week someone asking for a nice fennesz web-site. Try this one www.multsanta.madvision.co.uk/fennesz other releases I am looking forward to Pan Sonic with an Icelandic Choir. Jim O'Rourke new one on MEGO platte Illusion of Safety on Die Stadt Etc. etc. And if someone is searching for a AC Marisa Drop/So seven inch. Saw this item in a very recent catalogue here in Holland. Ask on watzmann@planet.nl Next weekend the biggest collectors-market in Utrecht. It's so big that you have to make choises first which part could be interesting. But I am sure to find interesting things. last bought ceedee: Neu 2 LUYH ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 01:58:56 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release swim team #2 was officially released a few days ago. If anyone stumbles upon any reviews of it, please share them here. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 16:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release Giluz wrote- << swim team #2 was officially released a few days ago. If anyone stumbles upon any reviews of it, please share them here. >> And if anyone knows where to get it in the US please let us know. I've had no luck so far. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:52:43 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber Paul and Lisa, << However, I do enjoy the A.C. Marias album and it's worth getting if you can find it. >> Still available direct from Mute, as is virtually all the 80s Wire stuff, all the He Said and some BCG. >>I'm not too familiar with the Graham+Bruce work,<< Start at the beginning, with Domes 1 and 2. Mark (alone in ranking Not To as Colin's finest solo album, but probably not alone in not caring too much for Take Care) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:55:21 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release Eric, Just buy it direct from posteverything.com Mark << And if anyone knows where to get it in the US please let us know. I've had no luck so far. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:06:37 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber In a message dated 11/11/01 3:35:11 PM Central Standard Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > welcome lisa, > further to Ian B's recommendations... > as you're one of the '80's' Wire contingent, i'd recommend Colin's > 'Commercial Suicide' and 'It Seems' LP's first off, then 'Not To', then > '...Singing Fish', then 'A-Z'. > personally, i love them all, but the early ones are a bit harsher on the > ear > than 'C.M.' and 'I.S.'. > once again, at this point, i have to admit to not hearing 'Bastard' yet > (eternal shame...) but i suspect that this should be another that you check > out first. > > happy listening, ian.s.j. > > I did not like Bastard at all.....It was too "all over the place"....I like his Immersion stuff well enough though...and Oracle is ok.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:12:13 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Attrition In a message dated 11/11/01 3:16:50 PM Central Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > I kind of knew Attrition in the early Eighties. I have a few tracks by them > dotted on various compilations. I never acquired any of their own releases > though, despite the fact that I quite liked what they did. > Are they still going? > > Ian B > > > > I have only one Attrition track and it is on the "Elephant Table-A Compilation of Difficult Music"...Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about/how to get anything by a band called Metamorphosis or a band called MFH (or their other name: Pump)????? I believe the Metamorphosis album is self titled and the Pump album is called "The Declaration of Duma Continues" and i have no idea if MFH ever released a full length but i love the track on this compilation...The Metamorphosis track is great as well.....Any help would be appreciated...Thanks, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:14:06 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Goodbye Tonsils In a message dated 11/11/01 3:14:44 PM Central Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > > I bought all three of those too.That Goodbye Tonsils is still up there > > amongst my fave 12" purchases of all time. > > Chris > > Did you see the video for that on Max Headroom? I still have it somewhere. > Imagine that! Severed Heads on national television at about 6pm on a > Saturday evening > > > > Now i'd like a copy of that....I have two Severed Heads video compilations but i do not remember if that is on either of them.....I've met Tom Ellard several times and he's a nice fella..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:16:23 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) watching paint & listening to fruit. In a message dated 11/11/01 2:54:31 PM Central Standard Time, CHRISWIRE@aol.com writes: > They are as boring as FSOL & StyLab (who are less > > exciting than the proverbial drying paint) > > > Now Now Graeme!....I have to disagree with you (for once)...While i do not find Skylab all that great, I do happen to think the FSOL is wonderful.....I have a great live radio broadcast if anyone is interested.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:20:29 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] end of WMO In a message dated 11/11/01 5:41:41 PM Central Standard Time, janjnoorda@wish.net writes: > First of all I would like to thank Kevin Eden and the rest for his work over > the last years by managing his Wiremailorder. A couple of days to go and > then > it's all history. And what will be next. Hopefully Colin could find energy > and > money for going on releasing old and new Wire material. And after reading > the > new wireviews and Graeme Rowland's interview with Colin it looks good. > I would like to second this....THANK YOU Kevin..thank you for everything that you have done! The Book...The CDs...The Updates....WMO in general...You are top-notch in my book! Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:27:34 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber >Mark (alone in ranking Not To as Colin's finest solo album, I don't think so, Mark. From what I remember, many IdealCopiers rank Not To as Colin's finest. In fact, I think that it was sort of a tie between A-Z and Not To for a while around here. I could be completely wrong though. (^_^) >but probably not >alone in not caring too much for Take Care) No, I think I might be alone on this one. (^_^) Still, Could You? was one of the first songs I ever heard by He Said - in the 80's even! - and it stands as one of my favorite tracks. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:33:54 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber In a message dated 11/11/01 7:29:23 PM Central Standard Time, paulp@wrq.com writes: > Well, I for one, adore both He Said albums as well as the Pre-He, and hell, even the He Said/Omala.....The HALO album is only half-good...the songs with Graham on vocals are the keepers...the rest of it is crap.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:52:36 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] swim team #2 official release Just buy it direct from posteverything.com>> Thanks Mark. Just ordered it. Cheap and easy- gotta love it. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:18:11 +0100 From: "bartvandamme@home" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAO Lisa, new subscriber mark wrote: > Start at the beginning, with Domes 1 and 2. Dome 1 must be my fav album outside wire... shame I only got it on vinyl. Anybody know if there's a Dome 1 & 2 cd-box availlable? Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:16:07 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT Attrition > I kind of knew Attrition in the early Eighties. I have a few tracks by them > dotted on various compilations. I never acquired any of their own releases > though, despite the fact that I quite liked what they did. > Are they still going? > > Ian B yes, they are!! Attrition was linked with labels like Hyperium, Projekt, etc, etc.. in fact on Projekt site under discography section, when you open item you are interested in, you will find mp3 adn real audio files for few songs. last fews was almost classical reworking of old and less old songs.. if you like Clock Dva from Buried Dreams era you will like what they done.. mileta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:30:38 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Stroke o'Flux! (!) > Mileta spouted endlessly > >>>>Well, after Swanic & Ciccone Youth, why they didn' > t call EP Boredom Youth..after Goo and some things i > expected C(r)a(r)penters Youth... > > Since you said you haven't listened to them since Goo, > maybe you should go & listen to the records they've > made since before slagging them. They are certainly > more interesting than tedious overblown stadium bore > rawk like bloody Simple Minds (not that that's any > recommendation) or cliched histrionic goth shlock like > Sisters of Mercy or mammy I'm depressed in a stadium > preset synth crud like Depeche Mode. Try the red SYR1 > ep - it's superb. SY Carpenters cover crapped on all > Simple Minds & SOM & DM tracks ever (not that that's > difficult). hmm, don' t get me wrong, i like Sonic Youth and what i heard still sound good to me. opinions are different, and for example some of ultra SY fans from time i listen them take Daydream Nation as one of most boring album all the time-many will not agree !! For example i heard anecdote, that in NY when they promote DN Michael Gira laughed very much and loudly to show how " funny " ( read bad, bored )material was.. Forgive me also, even i like SY very much, but for me first few albums of Simple Minds have more values than ones from SY. Empires & Dance , Sons/Sisters even Life In A Day and Reel To Reel still sound flresh and fascinated for me and never bored. New Gold Dream works on another level.. what get me out of SY is that i felt in one stage of their career, that they are not so honest in what they do.. as someone said about picture they got about themesleves, they want to be what picture about SY was..( i must excluded that i wasn' t talk about music, music was alwasy fine-what i heard ). one of my friend who live in NY told - SY are perfect band for yuppies who want to have everyday 45 minute revolution. And that was my last impression i have about them. I always prefered Swans, even if i was disappointed with some things they have done, i adore Gira and Jarboes efforts to do what they want with full heart. sometimes people from SY look to me as pseudo-intelectual and i hate it very much.. maybe, i am wrong , maybe my impressions are not valued one, but i think so.. mileta ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #341 *******************************