From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #334 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, November 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 334 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: elastica/menswear [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Re: play pop ["r\)\(o\)\(m" ] AW: [idealcopy] Pick of the month [Woerner Frank ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:19:39 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: elastica/menswear >Is it true btw about Bruce mingling with the likes of Elastica & Tracy Emin. >Thing is... years ago the dutch equivalent of Q-mag "Oor" [ear] called Wire >a couple of cantankerous old gits for not being amused with the Elastica >link - saying they would have nothing to do with fashionable new bands! >[mind you, this was a few years ago, but cantankerous indeed!] So was it> >Bruce, or is Wire devided about the issue? [if it even IS an issue?] >Personally I was not put of at all by Wire-influenced Elastica [or Blur] >songs. I too used Wire-ish styles [like nervous staccato-guitars] in my own >songs. Heresy? Nah... AFAIK the only people who became cantankerous were the publishers. Bruce was extremely relaxed about it and is indeed supposed to have had a beer or two with Justine. Colin did get a bit toey (going to Australia in a month, so getting into practice) when Justine supposedly claimed him as an elastica fan, which he denied. No idea what they thought of Menswear, which to me was the more blatant rip-off. I remember pissing myself laughing when I first heard it on the chart show. Where are they now, I wonder? Paul R, got to ask, who was the third party who messed up the taping? Sounds like there is a story in you about this...... Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 06:04:13 -0600 From: "r\)\(o\)\(m" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: play pop I buy a few periodicals from time to time (pulps). In that context 'good' generally means the item has more structural integrity than dust. Personally, I contest the notion that vinyl could be in "ex" collection with any surface scratches. Mint seems to mean 'presentable' condition, but maybe I am just fussy. > I had a good laugh when I scrolled > through the description (Record rated as 'Good') and saw the picture!!! > Puts a whole new dimension on the meaning of 'good'. address is > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1481747950. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:21:04 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Pick of the month >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Tim [mailto:timrobinson@cwcom.net] >Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2001 03:00 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: [idealcopy] Pick of the month > > >This month I have been mostly listening to: > > >The Mull Historical Society - Loss >Lush, Beach Boys/Mercury Rev/Kitchens Of >Distinction/Pulp/Teenage Fanclub >style melodic pop from the isle of Mull, a good 45 minute >ferry ride from a >remote part of the western isles of Scotland. This is great pop >music, infused with the kind of loveable pastoral whimsy of >early Gorkys' >or Super Furry Animals. Faraway music from a faraway place. This sounded interesting to me so I decided to have al isten to this CD. So, although being released in almost all countries this CD will not be available before January 2002 in Germany ... strange, isn't it? So much for the European Community and its open market. FrankfromBavaria BTW: I listened to the album at their internet site. So I saved thirty Deutschmarks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:26:30 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Mileta Okiljevic [mailto:baltazar@panet.bits.net] >Gesendet: Sonntag, 4. November 2001 10:31 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Cc: Mileta Okiljevic >Betreff: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen vs.1.5-4 ( or what ) on >E.Bay.. > > >> "Echo and The Bunnymen autographed white Karrera electric. >This guitar was >> signed at the Virgin Megastore in West Hollywood during a July >Performance. >> the winning bidder will recieve the photos of both members >signing the >guitar. >> Echo and the Bunnyman started in 1978 as a British Punk >Group, their debut >> album "Pictures on My Wall" Was released in 1979. In the >late eighties two >of >> the band members were killed in an auto accident. however the two >remaining >> memebers have continued to make albums and go on tour. In 1990 the >released >> the popular album "Reverberation", and their most recent album was >released in >> 1997 "Evergreen". Not quite true ... they released a new album "Flowers" in 2001. I downloaded it from emusic.com ... it is weak and boring. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:37:43 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] today's listening and OT question... first off, does anyone have any bootlegs of any DJ Beekeeper sets??? If so would you please make me a cd-r or cassette copy? PLEEEEAAASE?....ok, enough begging.. today's listening (and it's only 9:30 am!!! ...insomnia again..): T. Rex - Electric Warrior Wire - The Ideal Copy Peter Murphy - Should the World Fail to Fall Apart Bauhaus - In The Flat Field The Associates - Fourth Drawer Down New Order - Brotherhood Tuxedomoon - Half-Mute i must be crazy...now i have an 8 hour work day ahead of me! oh well i can sleep later eh? Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:38:58 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen speaking of, what are the top 4 (in order) Echo and the Bunnymen lps? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:48:49 -0500 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen Porcupine Crocodiles Heaven Up Here Ocean Rain Some may argue about the order, but I doubt anyone would deny the first four albums are the best, and reletively close to each other in quality. >From: RLynn9@aol.com >To: Frank.Woerner@nbg.sbs.de, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen >Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:38:58 EST > >speaking of, what are the top 4 (in order) Echo and the Bunnymen lps? > >Robert _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:11:39 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: elastica/menswear In a message dated 05/11/01 10:28:55 GMT Standard Time, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: > Colin did get a bit toey (going to > Australia in a month, so getting into practice) when Justine supposedly > claimed him as an elastica fan, which he denied. //////i think what upset colin was justine claiming he'd ok'ed the plagiarising when he'd never even spoken to her...... > > No idea what they thought of Menswear, which to me was the more blatant > rip-off. I remember pissing myself laughing when I first heard it on the > chart show. Where are they now, I wonder? //////well taxis will always need driving :-) every time i look in a bin of cheapo cd's it seems to contain the entire works of menswear. must admit i bought "daydreamer" for a laugh. > > Paul R, got to ask, who was the third party who messed up the taping? > Sounds like there is a story in you about this...... ////// you know gary lineker once cracked a (not very hilarious) gag that wimbledon were "best watched on ceefax". anyway , i worryingly discovered a few weeks bag that my dad actually does this , he puts it on the fulham page and watches waiting for the score to change. needless to say i got some mileage out of this ... anyway during that SBN thing annette did not resist making a crack that the program looked a little dull. after sitting there watching it for about 10 minutes with her i left the room with it taping. clearly having paid enormous attention to what i'd just said , she promptly whipped out the tape and watched the previous nights eastenders. bollocks. so i'd be curious to know what happened in the last section. seems like not many people here saw it , shame as it was pretty good stuff. makes you think there might be some ok digital radio if you could be bothered to trawl thru about 200 channels you have no idea about....p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:42:40 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen At 10:48 AM 11/5/2001 -0500, stephen graziano wrote: >Porcupine >Crocodiles >Heaven Up Here >Ocean Rain > >Some may argue about the order, but I doubt anyone would deny the first four >albums are the best, and reletively close to each other in quality. It'll be interesting to see if anyone would rank the three "reunion" albums highly. I'm certainly not dismissive of groups giving it a second or third go (my love for '80s Wire being a prime example of this) but the songwriting on the latter-day Bunnymen albums has been rather dire. At best the songs are pretty, but they're usually dull, unmemorable ballads. Curiously, Will just continues to get better as a guitarist -- maybe *now* is the time for him to get a new frontman! :-) (And would REVERBERATION make the top of anyone's list?) I can see someone liking the fifth album (the eponymous one from '87) well enough to defend it. Mac's been quoted as saying that "The Game" is the only good song on it, but also I'll happily defend "Bombers Bay" (maybe I just like the sound of "black black day / where the flying fishes play"), the glorious "New Direction," "All in Your Mind," and even the dreaded "Lips Like Sugar." It's not much of a dropoff from the first four. I'm also fond of Mac's CANDLELAND, especially the title track with its able assist from Liz Fraser. Anyway: 1) Porcupine 2) Heaven Up Here (underrated!) 3) Ocean Rain 4) Crocodiles 5) Echo & the Bunnymen h u g e d r o p o f f 6) Evergreen 7) Flowers 8) What Are You Doing With Your Life? later, Miles, who is sorta pissed that the Nashville Pscyedelic Furs tour date (Nov. 16th) doesn't include the Bunnymen like most of the other stops ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 16:59:17 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: digital radio Paul/list I didn't see/hear the programme on Friday, partly due to techno-fear as I've never listened to net radio and am not sure what's involved and partly because very little gets between me and the pub on a Friday evening. High court judge asks:- so you can get webcam pictures of them in the studio then? And take a lead out of the back of your computer and put it in the video? Coo, innit marvellous? I'm sure I could get into all this multimedia shit if I didn't have to come to work everyday. Hope Annette enjoyed Eastenders, anyway. Suggest you get her In Esse for Christmas by way of revenge. Howard PS regarding football by Ceefax my former boss, an Everton fan, not only follows his team this way but does a little ritual (he's never given details) with a lucky conker before switching the set on. He is known to destroy small domestic appliances, a la ripping yarns, on the back of home defeats to Coventry. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:21:48 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen > speaking of, what are the top 4 (in order) Echo and the Bunnymen lps? > > Robert in my opinion first four are best.. my rank 1. Heaven Up Here(one of my first 10 all the time...) 2. Ocean Rain 3. Crocodiles 4. Porcupine not heard anyone from Flowers, except saw video for It's Allright ( never was a accept fact to judge music after videos, but wasn' t catch...) Evergreen & What Are You Gonna Do With Your Life was very good, even not in class with first incarnation of band, even if What Are You..is quite a good !!! Solo efforts of Ian McCulloch was so-so, same as with Electrarfixion ( btw, same core as todays Bunnymen ) grey album will rather forget, Bunnymen Mk 2 means nothing to me.. also, never heard anything from solo Will's work, but i think it can be good... mileta ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:50:43 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: elastica/menswear Paul, Good job I'm here isn't it ;-) I have the full show on video. An interesting experience, similar in concept to Derek Jarman's Blue. But without the cancer and death and stuff. Colin & Malka don't appear for the first hour - but are on for the following 90 minutes. Now I was "watching" this intermittently so I missed some of it - it was nice to walk into the room and hear Pink Flag (from the RFH) coming out of the telly... Most of the discussion was like Rosko's Round table (showing my age). C&M don't often disagree do they! the other guest seemed to be some DJ lad who didn't like the Fall because "it sounds like it was recorded in a garage". I despair of young people today sometimes. Got the thumbs-up from Colin who obviously hadn't seen MES describing Wire as "old men". As far as I know, all members of Wire have their own teeth. Anyway, right at the end of the show Claire Kember asked Colin about Wire. This is the transcript. Colin: "For the latter half of this year we've been concentrating on making an album - this is starting to become public knowledge. We're working under our own steam and in our own way, and it's getting to the point where the work is starting to be really good. Hopefully it'll be out next year... Malka can tell you if it's any good." Malka "It's really good." Claire: "Malka, are you doing anything new?" Malka "Well I'm waiting for the studio to become free!" So good news. Not only is Colin hard at work on t'new album, Malka is waiting at the studio door armed with a rolling pin telling him to get on with it. Note use of "hopefully". Mark << anyway during that SBN thing annette did not resist making a crack that the program looked a little dull. after sitting there watching it for about 10 minutes with her i left the room with it taping. clearly having paid enormous attention to what i'd just said , she promptly whipped out the tape and watched the previous nights eastenders. bollocks. so i'd be curious to know what happened in the last section. seems like not many people here saw it , shame as it was pretty good stuff. makes you think there might be some ok digital radio if you could be bothered to trawl thru about 200 channels you have no idea about....p >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:15:25 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: elastica/menswear In a message dated 05/11/01 18:50:43 GMT Standard Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Paul, > > Good job I'm here isn't it ;-) > > I have the full show on video. An interesting experience, similar in > concept to Derek Jarman's Blue. But without the cancer and death and stuff. /////i have that on tape somewhere. bit dull. highlight is momus's "lesbian cocksucker blues" , but then it doesn't have too much competition......... > > > So good news. Not only is Colin hard at work on t'new album, Malka is > waiting at the studio door armed with a rolling pin telling him to get on > with it. > > Note use of "hopefully". > > ////////excellent news! shall we organise a sweepstake for the release ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:28:54 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re : OT- CarCrashBunnymen >I can see someone liking the fifth album (the eponymous one from '87) well >enough to defend it. having already admitted previously to only REALLY appreciating the Bunnymen slightly after the fact (long-winded or what...jeez...), i'll defend the self-titled LP. Mac is right to single out 'The Game' as a great track, but 'Bombers Bay' and 'Bedbugs & Ballyhoo' are fine Bunnymen songs, the LP maybe has only one or two iffy tracks, as does 'Porcupine' and 'Ocean Rain'. as for solo Mac, the 1st single 'Proud To Fall' was practically 'The Game Part 2' and is equally good. both tracks, of course, dealing with the break-up of the band at the time. couldn't be arsed checking out 'Candleland though'...;) ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:46:53 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re : OT- CarCrashBunnymen At 09:28 PM 11/5/2001 +0000, ian.s. jackson wrote: >couldn't be arsed checking out 'Candleland though'...;) Charming expression! :-) MYSTERIO was the one I couldn't stomach. Electrafixion wasn't a bad idea, and the "Zephyr" CD-5 seemed like a harbinger of a roaring good Mac and Will comeback. Too bad that they forgot to write any other worthy tunes, so most of the eventual album ended up being Will making great-sounding noises over formless (but not experimental! crucial distinction!), forgettable songs. They were like that live, too; the only highlights in the Electrafixion show I saw (a $5-admission gig that was added three days before the show date, and only drew 28 people -- hey, maybe *that's* why the Bunnymen aren't playing Nashville!) were "Zephyr" and a 20-minute set-ending "Do It Clean" (the only Bunnymen song played). wondering whatever happened to Simon F, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:40:26 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] recent listening... haven't bothered for a while so... Thee Michelle Gun Elephant - Casanova Snake X-Ray Spex - Anthology The Hives - Main Offender 7" David Bowie - Aladdin Sane Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True The Go-Betweens - Before Hollywood Wire - Kidney Bingos 7"/So & Slow It Grows 12" P.J.Harvey - Dry/Rid Of Me Beefheart - various fave tracks... Julian Cope - Fried Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures Radar Bros - Radar Bros The Nectarine No. 9 - Fried For Blue Material R.E.M. - Reveal Guided By Voices - John Peel Session Dec.'99 (up there with the Slits sessions...) Gang Of Four - Damaged Goods EP Generation X - No, No, No Gary Clail & the On-U-Sound System - Two Thieves & A Liar The Fire Engines - Meat Whiplash The Stretchheads - Afghanistan Bananastan Public Enemy - Rebel Without A Pause The Clash - various singles lots of other stuff, i'm struggling to remember, i'm tired, so tired... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:36:23 +0100 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Miles Goosens [mailto:outdoorminer@mindspring.com] >Gesendet: Montag, 5. November 2001 17:43 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: AW: [idealcopy] OT- CarCrashBunnymen > >It'll be interesting to see if anyone would rank the three >"reunion" albums >highly. I'm certainly not dismissive of groups giving it a >second or third >go (my love for '80s Wire being a prime example of this) but the >songwriting on the latter-day Bunnymen albums has been rather >dire. At >best the songs are pretty, but they're usually dull, unmemorable >ballads. Curiously, Will just continues to get better as a >guitarist -- >maybe *now* is the time for him to get a new frontman! :-) > >(And would REVERBERATION make the top of anyone's list?) > >I can see someone liking the fifth album (the eponymous one >from '87) well >enough to defend it. Mac's been quoted as saying that "The >Game" is the >only good song on it, but also I'll happily defend "Bombers >Bay" (maybe I >just like the sound of "black black day / where the flying >fishes play"), >the glorious "New Direction," "All in Your Mind," and even the dreaded >"Lips Like Sugar." It's not much of a dropoff from the first four. I seem to be an exception as I really like this album and the songs "Bombers Bay" and "Lips like Sugar". Of course I prefer the first four albums to the newer ones. Anyone interested in the 2001 album "Flowers" should get a trial account from emusic.com. Its free for thirty days and I downloaded the complete album from them. I also got the Mark Kozelek solo albums (with the one where he plays the AC/CS songs). Another goodie from them was a new Lilac Time album (not Lilac6 which I bought yesterday). FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 09:08:38 +0100 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brellymen > speaking of, what are the top 4 (in order) Echo and the Bunnymen lps? > Robert I would have to agree with most of the rest: 1 * P o r c u p i n e 2 * O c e a n R a i n 3 * H e a v e n U p H e r e 4 * C r o c o d i l e s But perhaps it IS a little obvious, looking at their catalogue... I remember someone calling them "Jacques & the Brellymen" because of Mac's involvement in a certain Belgian singer. Quite funny... Anyone knows who/where/when/what/why? Cheers, Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl bart@adrem.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #334 *******************************