From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #330 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, November 2 2001 Volume 04 : Number 330 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] well its november [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT or On Topic? [John Roberts ] [idealcopy] Re: New Order on Jools Holland's Later [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Well it's november... [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] OT or On Topic? [giluz ] [idealcopy] Mark E. Smith interview with a wire mention... [Rain19c@aol.c] Re: [idealcopy] Re: New Order on Jools Holland's Later ["ian.s. jackson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:42:23 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] well its november ....and still no wire releases or gigs this year so far. real shame after the momentum built up in Y2K. anyone got any ideas what's happening with rumoured new wire product or the solo colin cd? presumably the albini sessions have been quietly shelved as they've not seen the light of day so far. but you'd think something must be due to surface soonish.... and whilst swim has ticked over , bruce and graham have been ultra quiet too. wonder what they're up to? hardly a remix or a collaboration between them. real shame the projected live stuff hasn't happened (i see pinkflag.com still advertising last decembers gig in edinburgh. hope nobody turns up 12 months late :-) still , i've got sky digital so i'll try to hear this radio thing tomorrow. can somebody remind me of the channel as i deleted that mail foolishly. the previous netradio thing was great , wonder if they'll preview some rare stuff this time. humorous aside ; somebody on ebay is trying to sell a badge with 1.4.5 printed on it as a piece of wire memorabilia for their 145 album. nice try mate. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 03:25:45 -0800 (PST) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT or On Topic? francis at francisd@total.net > wrote: > > > I thought I had s*bscribe to a mailing list on > the UK art punk (and > > post-punk?) band Wire. But now I read posts of > people who are into Simple > > Mind and Talk Talk, who don't know who Eddie and > the Hot Rods are, and who > > despise political discussions. > > Blame Wire! If they'd have kept to the same thing all this time then they wouldn't have such an eclectic community of fans. Can't stand S Minds and Talk Talk but I can see why some people would lump them with Wire. Similarly I can't stand a lot of what gets discussed on here but I can understand where people are coming from. Swim: can't say that I have heard much that is my kind of thing. Why should I feel obliged to comment? I don't like Bruce's or Lewis's solo stuff either. When Wire release something new is a different matter for me personally. Politics. Every year I walk into my first seminar for Critical Theory. Every year I am told by my students that they don't have a theory or that they aren't interested in politics. Then I point out to them the empiricist, humanist, essentialist aspects of their so called non-theory and so called apoliticism and its historical and epistemological contingency. All the people who claim that they aren't political or don't have a theory are just lazy. (And even that statement is informed by particular views on the work ethic and is essentially liberal/utilitarian I suppose.) People who are scared of discussing politics or say that politics has no place on this list are enforcing a particular political status quo whether they admit to that fact or not. We can argue as to whether or not that is merely my opinion or philosophically tenable til the cows come home but don't bother because I have enough on my plate at the moment with work. What I would ask is please let's not have more extended discussions as to what should or should not be discussed on this list. What do we want - a list where we all nod in agreement? If it's got OT in the header then it's off topic. If it's off topic and it hasn't got OT in the header then the person who sent it shouldn't have. Miles is the listowner and he should reprimand them. Regards John Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:22:14 +0000 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: New Order on Jools Holland's Later >p.s. New Order's cover (for that is what it was) of Love Will Tear us >Apart on the 'Later' show sounded completely workmanlike and bereft of >energy or passion. Just watched this on video and completely agree - Barney even got the lyrics wrong. Overall I quite enjoyed them, and the track `Sixty miles an hour' started to appeal for the first time. Better than the usual toss that Jools has on - definitely a show to set the video for so you can wind forward through the middle aged low cholesterol high fibre toe tapping muso shite and naff celeb guest spots. btw coil fans - read on brainwashed.com that John Balance has had a heart attack leading to cancellation of shows - probably common knowledge but thought I'd mention it just in case. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 16:54:43 +0100 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] New[bie] Order > Does anyone saw New Order on A Later with Jools Holland...they played Love > Will Tear Us Apart..as i heard . I taped it... I was more struck by watching the performing "legends" on stage than by the music itself though. But it was very nice to see indeed. They brought their fan Sean "Never-Mind-the-Buzzcocks" Hughes wich made me think: Wouldn't it be great fun if Colin & chums would appear in the Buzzcocks line-up from yesteryear? Or should I get me coat now? Cheers, Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 16:02:10 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Well it's november... And the list has been getting into an interestingly analytical frame of mind... Excellent contributions from Giluz and Mileta remind us that Art, *Wire* very much included, exists in a wider context... Miles has made it possible for me to admit on this list that I'm going to see one of the 'Beyond Nashville' shows at the Barbican this weekend (the Jim White one...imagine David Byrne in a cowboy hat... although perhaps you'd rather not) Of course I now discover from information received this means I'll miss the colin/malka radio thang... Swim team #2 is not forgotten...I am still letting it swim around my ears... couldn't add anything to Giluz' spot-on critique.... Biggest disappointment of the year was the non-event at the Whitechapel art gallery done down by faceless bureaucrat fucking jobsworths... Tried to get cd single 'so and slow' from Mute last week and it's out of stock...does this mean it's gone forever...? Paul R...that 1.4.5 badge on ebay is the very rare, very valuable 154 souvenir badge with the printing error... (ok, probly isn't...) hey mileta...the mighty O's are on a roll well, unbeaten since they got a new manager (that will put the curse on them) ticking mouth! A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:12:40 -0000 From: "Wilson, Paul" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #328 From: francis I thought I had subscribe to a mailing list on the UK art punk (and post-punk?) band Wire. But now I read posts of people who are into Simple Mind and Talk Talk, who don't know who Eddie and the Hot Rods are, and who despise political discussions. Can you tell me please if I'm on a list dedicated to the same band who released the sublime Pink Flag album.... or on some list dedicated to pretentious 80's pop bands? Erm, You're on the right list - but don't hold you're breath about hearing much chat about Wire. You're quite likely to hear a lot about what everyone listened to last night, and maybe some talk about the new Steps album, but that's about your lot. Don't worry though - subscribe to the digest version of the list, on receiving it, read the headings, then scan quickly through. In about ten seconds, you should be ready to delete it all. Rezmole Smash Imperialism! Boycott US produce! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:36:28 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT or On Topic? At 03:25 AM 11/1/2001 -0800, John Roberts wrote: >What I would ask is please let's not have more >extended discussions as to what should or should not >be discussed on this list. I'm wondering if Baudrillard ever wrote about a list whose main subject was discussing what should be discussed on a list. Could be some really tortured French reflexive constructions in there, ya know... >If it's got OT in the >header then it's off topic. If it's off topic and it >hasn't got OT in the header then the person who sent >it shouldn't have. Miles is the listowner and he >should reprimand them. Things move quickly in threads, and sometimes they veer off-topic without the writer thinking to change the header. I don't feel like issuing reprimands at every instance. The only sure way to enforce such a policy would be for me to have to approve each post before it goes on to the list, which would be time-consuming and make list mail dependent on when I could find a block of time to approve posts. If you guys want to make listowner a salaried position so I'll have the time to monitor it, start chipping in now! :-) Actually I've thought the list has improved quite a bit this year as far as designating off-topic posts and quoting only the relevant bits. Compare the last few digests with those from, say, late 1999, and the positive differences should be obvious. So I'm actually inclined to hand out pats on the back rather than slaps on the wrist! Enough boring list management stuff! Let's get back to discussing the usual stuff, like ELO and football. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:26:04 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT or On Topic? on 11/1/01 7:36 PM, Miles Goosens at wireadmin@mindspring.com wrote: > At 03:25 AM 11/1/2001 -0800, John Roberts wrote: >> What I would ask is please let's not have more >> extended discussions as to what should or should not >> be discussed on this list. > > I'm wondering if Baudrillard ever wrote about a list whose main subject was > discussing what should be discussed on a list. Could be some really > tortured French reflexive constructions in there, ya know... > Maybe we ought to open the idealcopy meta-list, in which we'll discuss which subjects are appropriate to the regular one. A sure way of being mentioned in the pages of cultural critics ("internet communities of the new century utilise the flexible social structure of the medium to its maximum potential. A temporaray autonomous zone is created each time a new off-topic comment is created and being commented on further in turn, blah blah blah"). Of course, this would just be the first step to an endless chain of meta-meta, meta-meta-meta, etc. lists. However, it's worth mentioning that people that don't like certain subjects to be mentioned here, should maybe keep their mouths shut, if only because this usually backfires and the topic is then being discussed even more in length than it would have been in the first place. So, has anyone been to an ELO gig recently? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:48:13 EST From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Mark E. Smith interview with a wire mention... http://knittingfactory.com/Knotes/knotes_nov_dec/knotes_novdec.cfm click on "the fall" under features. he calls wire "old men"... plus, the new album and group is the best yet and "the unutterable" was too arty.... thats all bollocks i say. ~michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:44:43 +0000 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: New Order on Jools Holland's Later Better than the usual >toss that Jools has on - definitely a show to set the video for so you >can wind forward through the middle aged low cholesterol high fibre toe >tapping muso shite and naff celeb guest spots. i sent my first post on this to Howard without noticing it wasn't to the 'copy' list... so i'll repeat it here...New Order's '60 miles an hour' was the biggest pile of shite i've seen/heard on telly for ages... (only topped by the Boystown Gang on TOTP2 this week...) and also...Barney's dodgy stage antics are getting towards Debbie Harry's 'pissed Auntie at a wedding' comeback gigs... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #330 *******************************