From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #328 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, October 31 2001 Volume 04 : Number 328 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: I am not Damo Suzuki ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] the fortnight in bounces + this month I mostly listened to [M] [idealcopy] Hello anybody home? ["Solandra" ] [idealcopy] Help make TV show [Tim ] [idealcopy] Newbie [francis ] Re: [idealcopy] the fortnight in bounces + this month I mostly listened to [RLynn9@aol.] Re: [idealcopy] Newbie ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] Newbie [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off [giluz ] Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] on-topic topics, politics, and Paul Young [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Newbie ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off ["Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: I am not Damo Suzuki Phew! shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:22:01 -0500 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] I am not Damo Suzuki giluz wrote: >Clash is a double CD Czukay made with Koln DJ Dr. Walker, also >released in 1998 - it's a collection of a few improvised live sets >they did, and it's great (though only for the electronically inclined). I think you're underestimating the genius of Czukay's work. I am NOT electronically inclined - gimme punk rock three chords anytime - but I absolutely love that album. Thanks giluz for introducing me to it! Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:36:01 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] I am not Damo Suzuki > Mileta asked > >>>>is it true that Jaz working with Dave Grohl as a > producer and drummer on new album.. > > I have no idea. Part of that Killing Joke Last Laugh > site (MP3 downloads) was inaccessible over the > weekend, but if they have any news they email me. Do > you mean Dave Grohl is drumming & producing Killing > Joke? The last I heard about the next Killing Joke > album is that Jaz wanted Raven back in the band again > as Youth has amicably retired. Anyway, if Grohl was in > KJ it'd certainly be a better use of his talents than > that crappy MTV rawk band he fronts that sound like > watered down Nirvana with everything good about them > excised. He's a great drummer and a useless > songwriter! > > Mileta - try typing 'Killing Joke' into the Google > search engine (www.google.com) as there are plenty of > other Killing Joke sites out there. Maybe you'll find > your answer? > Thanx ! as i know, information about Grohl take a part in new KJ material as drummer and producer is taken from one of sites, and i was just curious..!! No particular opinion about Grohl, i heard that he have great sense of humour and maybe that thing push Jaz to hired him, near obvious good skills of drumming. Foo Fighters was never my cup of tea, so i hope that he will not experimented with KJ sound.. we few days ago talked about mannerism, i expected that he ( or anyone else as producer ) will serach for novelty in classic KJ sound. cheers, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:42:40 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off >In a message dated 10/27/01 12:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time, >Eardrumbuz@aol.com writes: > >yeah, that is pretty bad...but hey, check this out...I saw an ad in our local >entertainment rag for a Plastikman (Richie Hawtin) show at a local >club...i've seen him live before and the sound was great (and pretty much >fun)...So, like a fool, i brave a particularly unseasonable COLD night and >caught two buses to check this show out...i get there and i am rudely >informed that the cover charge at the door is $25.00 !!! Ouch! Thats about #17.40 in UK pounds folks! I'd expect a major live show plus support and a couple of pints for that really! > (there were no >presale tickets of any sort) and that it was not a live "Plastikman" show but >a two hour DJ set by Hawtin...Out of principle i turned >and walked out...so did a lot of others.. Don't blame you, although I thought Hawtin never really played 'live' as such. His performances blur the lines between DJ set and a Live gig because as well as decks, he uses a lot of samples and a laptop, and morphs his own tracks into other tracks...this may have been what you witnessed before. But I've never known him play in the way that say, Orbital or Autechre do...i.e. setting up their gear on stage and performing a live set. There isn't much performance to see at most electronic type gigs, but you at very least want the artist to lug all their gear on stage, twiddle some knobs, possibly punch the air occasionally, do a Roland 303 solo, and perform dazzling variations and live mixes of tracks you know from their records...not just stand behind a box putting records on. >Robert "chuffed" (i believe that is the right word?) "Chuffed" means being very pleased with something, however it is often used in a sarcastic tone, in which case it would apply to your situation here! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:12:18 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] the fortnight in bounces + this month I mostly listened to Bounces coming right up... mostly tripped up by accidental use of majordomo commands (hint: s*bscribe/uns*bscribe, etc.), and not many. Not many, that is, unless you really want me to send the many spam messages on to the list! Find yer own barely legal gIrLzZ, sez I... :-) OT note: while I don't suspect it will be really, really popular with the listfolk, ex-Uncle Tupelo/Son Volt frontman Jay Farrar's SEBASTOPOL (presumably named for the northern California town rather than the primary port of the Crimean Peninsula or any of the battles that took place in or near the latter city) has been dominating my CD player all month. I thought the last two Son Volt albums, while very good, were more or less treading water from a creative standpoint, so this album has surprised the heck out of me by its quality and inventiveness. Great songs, and enough sonic variance to keep me anticipating every song. For someone steeped in hardcore country music such as myself, the whole Uncle Tupelo/Son Volt/Wilco/Farrar axis never sounded all that country, even if UT's NO DEPRESSION ended up monickering the whole alt-country movement. But they do all draw on traditional American sounds, so despite nary a twang, the hopelessly twang-averse still might have a bad reaction. Me, I'll sandwich SEBASTOPOL in between listens to Cab Voltaire and the Bunnymen, and wouldn't have it any other way. later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:44:51 +1000 From: "Solandra" Subject: [idealcopy] Hello anybody home? Hello all I'm just wondering if I am still on the list and not have been accidently taken off the list. Or has it been a quiet time for the list. Either way I'd love to hear from you all and continue the permanent discussion of the Wire gang. hope to hear form you cheers Alex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 01:15:25 +0000 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Help make TV show Any listees care to offer help with a new TV series? The as yet un-named show will be a brief history of the UK indie scene from early 80s Factory/RT/Post Punk/Postcard scenes up to Britpop and the demise of Creation/Rough Trade etc. The makers want input from the fans as well as the bands, so any anecdotes, opinions, stories and most of all...contacts would be most welcome. Its going to be a superb series that I think will interest you all, so if you have any offerings please e-mail me OFF LIST! Thanks. Tim. _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:16:35 -0700 From: francis Subject: [idealcopy] Newbie I thought I had subscribe to a mailing list on the UK art punk (and post-punk?) band Wire. But now I read posts of people who are into Simple Mind and Talk Talk, who don't know who Eddie and the Hot Rods are, and who despise political discussions. Can you tell me please if I'm on a list dedicated to the same band who released the sublime Pink Flag album.... or on some list dedicated to pretentious 80's pop bands? francis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:53:14 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the fortnight in bounces + this month I mostly listened to yes, i am very familiar with Wilco etc.....they are from here in St.Louis, MO right in the heart of the USA.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:15:19 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Newbie > Can you tell me please if I'm on a list dedicated to the same band who > released the sublime Pink Flag album.... or on some list dedicated to > pretentious 80's pop bands? > > francis Yes, of course..and you forgot football ( hi Mark, where are you...!! ) and movies ( hi Giluz..) and discussions about social impact of Bob Dylan :) btw, was TalkTalk pop and pretentious at the beginning or the end of their career !!? nevermind Bob Dylan, he was not band and cannot recall does he was pretentious in 80's i am not into him.. Does anyone saw New Order on A Later with Jools Holland...they played Love Will Tear Us Apart..as i heard . cheers, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:19:38 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Newbie on 10/15/01 8:16 PM, francis at francisd@total.net wrote: > I thought I had s*bscribe to a mailing list on the UK art punk (and > post-punk?) band Wire. But now I read posts of people who are into Simple > Mind and Talk Talk, who don't know who Eddie and the Hot Rods are, and who > despise political discussions. > > Can you tell me please if I'm on a list dedicated to the same band who > released the sublime Pink Flag album.... or on some list dedicated to > pretentious 80's pop bands? > > francis > He-he-he - good one - I totally agree with you about everything except Eddie & the Hot Rods (who where they?). I don't mind people discussing 80's oldies here, but i wouldn't want this to be the only discussion. Here we are now - swim team 2 has been recently released, almost half of it has Colin involved, but no-one except for Graeme made any comment. Wire are gonna release a new album sometime soon and the list's main concern is talking about Siouxsie and PIL - don't get me wrong, i like those acts as well, and I'm not against off-topic subjects, but there are some recent on-topic items no-one hardly comments on. As for politics - I'm totally for political discussions but most list members aren't. I got slagged off just for expressing my horror at the attrocities happening not more than 100 km from where I live (that is Tel-Aviv, Israel). Looking back at the way Wire members have been managing their careers, and judging by recent interviews with Colin, I don't think it's an off-topic subject at all. World globalisation has affected the music industry just as much as it did any other field - it's no coincidence that Wire formed their PinkFlag label (do I have to mention swim as well?). The threat for free thought and expression is all around us - Wire members are aware of that but people here don't want to talk about this 'cause they think it's unrelated and even insulting. Any topic is valid (even football, Mileta), and I love the multiple contradicting opinions that are expressed here. But I don't think discussing Simple Minds (a band which I think is aptly named) is better or more relevant to Wire than discussing the war in Afghanistan. At least it should have led to the same kinds of angry reactions people had on some political comments expressed here recently. cheers, giluz ps. What makes New Order doing Love Will Tear Us Apart better than Paul Young doing the same? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:25:41 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off on 10/28/01 6:42 PM, Tim at timrobinson@cwcom.net wrote: >> In a message dated 10/27/01 12:17:04 AM Central Daylight Time, >> Eardrumbuz@aol.com writes: >> >> yeah, that is pretty bad...but hey, check this out...I saw an ad in our local >> entertainment rag for a Plastikman (Richie Hawtin) show at a local >> club...i've seen him live before and the sound was great (and pretty much >> fun)...So, like a fool, i brave a particularly unseasonable COLD night and >> caught two buses to check this show out...i get there and i am rudely >> informed that the cover charge at the door is $25.00 !!! > > Ouch! Thats about #17.40 in UK pounds folks! I'd expect a major live show > plus support and a couple of pints for that really! > That's about the standard price you pay for gigs in Israel - colin & Malka's gig a couple of years ago cost me about 20 quid (which was worth it, of course). Plastikman's gig a few years back cost about the same (if not more). You don't realise how lucky you all are. At least you've got something to go to - all I've got is the naff local acts (except for ex-Minimal Compact members, whoch aren't naff at all, but still cost a lot of money). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:43:09 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off In a message dated 10/31/01 12:28:54 PM Central Standard Time, giluz@netvision.net.il writes: << You don't realise how lucky you all are. At least you've got something to go to - >> well, actually...the Brits are lucky....i live in the midwest here in USA and we don't get too many wonderful shows/bands...Chicago is the exception though...but Chicago is a good 300 miles away from me.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:52:24 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] on-topic topics, politics, and Paul Young At 08:19 PM 10/31/2001 +0300, giluz wrote: >I don't mind people discussing 80's >oldies here, but i wouldn't want this to be the only discussion. Here we are >now - swim team 2 has been recently released, almost half of it has Colin >involved, but no-one except for Graeme made any comment. Wire are gonna >release a new album sometime soon and the list's main concern is talking >about Siouxsie and PIL - don't get me wrong, i like those acts as well, and >I'm not against off-topic subjects, but there are some recent on-topic items >no-one hardly comments on. I'm in agreement with this part of Gil's message. I enjoy the discussions of Killing Joke, Joy Division/New Order, John Foxx, etc., but our list's ostensible subject(s) have new product either in the shops or on the horizon, yet posts concerning these releases seem to flutter to the earth, untouched by listmember hands. It's sorta distressing. [As an aside -- I'm wondering if people just aren't keeping up with Colin & Malka's releases? Not that there's an idealcopyist obligation to buy every Swim CD, but I can't help but wonder if the subcurrent of list techno/dance/electronica/whatever aversion isn't coming into play here.] >As for politics - I'm totally for political discussions but most list >members aren't. I got slagged off just for expressing my horror at the >attrocities happening not more than 100 km from where I live (that is >Tel-Aviv, Israel). Looking back at the way Wire members have been managing >their careers, and judging by recent interviews with Colin, I don't think >it's an off-topic subject at all. World globalisation has affected the music >industry just as much as it did any other field - it's no coincidence that >Wire formed their PinkFlag label (do I have to mention swim as well?). The >threat for free thought and expression is all around us - Wire members are >aware of that but people here don't want to talk about this 'cause they >think it's unrelated and even insulting. > >Any topic is valid (even football, Mileta), and I love the multiple >contradicting opinions that are expressed here. But I don't think discussing >Simple Minds (a band which I think is aptly named) is better or more >relevant to Wire than discussing the war in Afghanistan. At least it should >have led to the same kinds of angry reactions people had on some political >comments expressed here recently. I've been carefully avoiding comment on whether political threads belong on the list, and when harsh words have found their way to the list, cooler heads like Paul Pietromonaco have ably stepped in -- often as I was drafting a message to the list myself! It would be unrealistic to think that the events of September 11th and after would not find their way to the list. I've not intervened in those threads so far, hoping that they'd eventually disappear before engulfing the list in vitriol, and to this point, they have reached a natural demise without me driving the listowner jackboot into them to hurry them along. Where I differ from Gil is in the proposition that all off-topic threads are created equal. As the listowner -- and perhaps just as relevantly, as a READER of this forum -- civility is one of my uppermost concerns. Topics that involve politics are among the most likely to provoke ideological posturing and reflexive name calling, do little to change readers' minds, and, particularly at this juncture, are the most likely to divide and destroy the list. The mention of Simple Minds and Depeche Mode may provoke some listmembers into apoplectic paroxysms, but I doubt if John Ashcroft will be clapping them into irons for slandering Jim Kerr. The stakes in these threads are *very* different, and the potential harm that an extended political discussion could do the list is much greater than a volley of opinions about ELO. Perhaps just as relevant is the fact that, however far we stray, this is a *Wire* list, a forum whose whole reason for being is so *Wire* fans can discuss *Wire.* There are forums aplenty across the Internet for folks who want to discuss the political situation. I'd suggest that listmembers who are so inclined visit their opinions on one of those corners of the Internet. Idealcopy is not pure escapism, but I would like it to be a place where listfolk can think about something else for a change rather than the list becoming yet another place where the current crisis is inescapable. We do tolerate off-topic threads here, of course, but as the list rules (which everyone gets when they subscribe to the list) qualify it, "as long as the thread winds its way back to Wire." The post of Gil's I'm quoting actually makes the required linkage, tying the world crisis and globalization back to Colin and Wire, so it's actually on-topic! However, I doubt that it would stay that way in an extended discussion. At that point, the thread should be taken off-list; those still interested should remain copied, while the rest of us idealcopyists return to our daily routine of wagering on what Kevin Eden mostly listened to last night (I collect the list's pool if Patrick Hernandez's "Born To Be Alive" shows up at any time). In short, I'd like to see listmembers keep political discussions polite, relevant to Wire if possible, and to a minimum at that. >ps. What makes New Order doing Love Will Tear Us Apart better than Paul >Young doing the same? I've not heard New Order doing it, and there's certainly the possibility that New Order's version is a travesty. For instance, lord knows that I hate hate hate the movie-recut and acoustic versions of "Pretty in Pink" that the Psychedelic Furs have unleashed upon the earth, even though I'm still wild about the original TALK TALK TALK version. OK, Richard Butler didn't off himself between versions of the song, so it's not a perfect analogy, but sure, it's still possible to butcher your own past material, and it's *possible* that a dodgy Paul Young-type (or Dennis DeYoung-type) might pull off a better version than the butchered original-artist remake. However, it's highly unlikely! I can't imagine that Tom Waits on his worst night could churn out a "Downtown Train" that's worse than Rod Stewart's syrup and strings hack job. Or perhaps better (worse?), I still think any Lou Reed-performed version of "Street Hassle" would top any (ha! no, we can't shake 'em!) Simple Minds version! :-) later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:08:32 +0300 From: giluz Subject: [idealcopy] swim team #2 review A sort of a review of the swim team #2 compilation, which didn't get enough space on this list. Here goes, track by track comments: Silo - Root - Not much to comment about this really - the only flaw in Silo is that all their stuff basically sounds the same. What saves their day is that it's all good - this new track is what you would expect judging by Alloy - hypnotic non 4/4 thythm (it's 9/8, I think) with matching guitar, bass and oscillators. Toucaen - Lecci on the Grande Jatte - new artist - sounds like an old music box riding on the back of a computer. Host - In Suspension - this new vehicle for swim collaborations kicks off with Malka and new artist Dictaphone. I guess this is one of the things Malka did while Colin was busy working on new Wire stuff :). I don't have much to comment on this really, except that it's very beautiful. Bumpy - Bumpy on the Beach - happy track with weird noises, all interact together with a nice danceable rhythm. Very nicely structured - I particularly love the cymbals in the second half of it. Everyone I played it to loves this track (except for the more mainstream-oriented that didn't much like the noises but still liked all the rest). Colin Newman - Tsunami - All of Colin's (and Malka's) new tracks have this nice fat distorted, almost sixty-ish guitar sound on them. This is quite different than bastard or My Pet Fish - more down to earth garage rock sound, probably influenced by Wire's reforming and switching from Cubase to pro-Tools (Cubase: great with MIDI, not the best program to work with audio - - Pro-Tools: the exact opposite - its MIDI capabilities are crap, but its audio manipulation capabilities are absolutely amazing). Silo - Prime Movers - Boss Remix - this is actually my current favourite track in the compilation. Colin took Silo's Prime Movers (features in Alloy and on this compilation as well) and made it into a Wire track. Judging by this and by the 12 times you single, this is what the new Wire will sound like - you've got the energy and analogue sounds of a live band, combined with the accuracy and preciseness of electronic music. The drums sound like real drums but also like a drum machine - everything is very carefully and neatly structured. This is a new thing - postmodern deconstruction and reconstruction at its best - a fucking masterpiece! Immersion/Flying Saucer attack - Even Further - this is nice enough, but isn't much different than previous remixes of Immersion i've heard. Still, it's the first time it's ever released, which is a good enough reason to include it here. Lobe - november - I'm not familliar with anything by Lobe (except for what appears in swim team #1), but this certainly draws my attention - mmm - my music analysing skills can't describe it, though (sorry - I've been writing it while drinking a nice glass of Chivas, so some of my cognitive capabilities have been slightly altered). Dictaphone - Esc. meetings - another from new artist Dictaphone. Actually, this is my least favourite track on the album. Symptoms - Stale Air on a City Morning - one of my friends described Symptoms' style as "soundscapes", and I quite agree with it - this is very similar (to my ears at least) to Eno's ambient works. Malka Spigel - Antimatter - another favourite. a true pop gem, enriched by Malka's superb vocals in backwards Hebrew (I'll sample it and reverse the track and try to listen to the actual lyrics). Again, we have Colin's fat guitar sound. Malka's bass line is as good as her singing (which, as I said earlier, is superb). A follow-up to her "Tall Grey Buildings" track on swim team #1, which also had a sixties My-Bloody-Valentine psychedelic feel to it. Beatkitten - Bored? - another newcomer, very groovy and very English - something in it reminds me of the Specials, but i don't exactly know what. I keep thinking of summer in London every time I listen to it. Colin Newman - Time Will Allow - in the same vein of the other new Colin/Malka tracks, this even features vocals by The Man himself - the first in a few years, I think. Again we have a more organic rock pattern feel to it, with the addition of an audio-manipulated "rap" as a sort of chorus. Silo - Prime Movers - no real musical relation to Colin's remix, this is the original track. Apart from it being good in its own right, it just shows how amazingly brilliant the remix is. Bumpy - Blokey - As opposed to his last two released tracks (one on this compilation, the other on swim team #1), Ben Newman on this track sounds almost like his parents, which is only natural, I expect (and I also suspect that they played in it as well) - good one, Ben. I mean, he's only 12 years old - what's he gonna do in 6 years time? Immersion - 2MStens - this gradually turns into my favourite Immersion track - - the perfect oscillating loop - I could listen to this one for hours (I hope there'll be a longer version to this). Most people ask (not very politely) to skip this track after a minute or so. I can't get over the similarities between Immersion and Fripp/Eno, but maybe it's just me (maybe it's just the Chivas - I'll pour another glass then). Frederik Ammitzboll - Copy - Silo member's new track - computerised Silo. Synptoms - Rose - new track - more upbeat (just because it has percs) - weird and nice. Immersion - Outro - a nice atmospheric ending to this compilation. So, what are you waiting for? Buy it now - it only costs a fiver. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:10:13 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Newbie > He-he-he - good one - I totally agree with you about everything except > Eddie & the Hot Rods (who where they?). I don't mind people discussing 80's > oldies here, but i wouldn't want this to be the only discussion. Here we are > now - swim team 2 has been recently released, almost half of it has Colin > involved, but no-one except for Graeme made any comment. Wire are gonna > release a new album sometime soon and the list's main concern is talking > about Siouxsie and PIL - don't get me wrong, i like those acts as well, and > I'm not against off-topic subjects, but there are some recent on-topic items > no-one hardly comments on. hmm, when i will heard it, i' ll make some comments.. somehow i think that all we discussed are connected with Wire and all those times Wire ( in first incarnation and stage of career ) remind us.. what we have with banshees is that we mentioned Steve Severin, etc, etc... check his site and you will find that he mentioned Wire so many times that in fact , like it or not, feel sense of belongining to all those times, as i said.. like someone said, all those off-topics are connected one way or another with Wire or related.. incidentally checking some peter Saville artwork and find Wire is mentioned.. examples, like that are in millions there.. i guess is what people inspired to talk about all those acts.. and i like it...!!! > > As for politics - I'm totally for political discussions but most list > members aren't. I got slagged off just for expressing my horror at the > attrocities happening not more than 100 km from where I live (that is > Tel-Aviv, Israel). Looking back at the way Wire members have been managing > their careers, and judging by recent interviews with Colin, I don't think > it's an off-topic subject at all. World globalisation has affected the music > industry just as much as it did any other field - it's no coincidence that > Wire formed their PinkFlag label (do I have to mention swim as well?). The > threat for free thought and expression is all around us - Wire members are > aware of that but people here don't want to talk about this 'cause they > think it's unrelated and even insulting. again, i can discuss forever & ever on this topic, remember i am from Yugoslavia, and lived through US & UK bombing 2 years ago, and know so, so amny things, you or people from there will never know and will never heard from CNN, BBC etc, etc... i feel on my skin what globalisation means in originally sense of word, but i think that i can only make few comments if i feel need ( but i will rather made some jokes and relax, if i am able, members and things there ). Decade ago, i ordered monthly 20 CD's direct from UK, now i can only manage to get "selected" ones and plenty of mp3's and cd-rom's but does anyone on list must listen and raed that.. so, i think political topic is good, but in measure reasonable to list members. i agree that politics affected all levels of modern living, so.. > > Any topic is valid (even football, Mileta), and I love the multiple > contradicting opinions that are expressed here. But I don't think discussing > Simple Minds (a band which I think is aptly named) is better or more > relevant to Wire than discussing the war in Afghanistan. At least it should > have led to the same kinds of angry reactions people had on some political > comments expressed here recently. agree with you, but nothing to add.. i can send you so many, many comments from many other list with mainly Europe vs. Usa attitude towards all this happenings, and lists was never the same.. so, why we should spoiled this list, i think is most better for discussion .. just see New Order, Depeche Mode or horror Echo & The Bunnymen lists. maybe yoiu will not believe but i saw something from Sisters Of mercy list and they discuss Pere Ubu in same time hwen we have them here.. so, i am very happy that i am on this list, and list so many times gave me precious information about "lost" acts & people.. > > > ps. What makes New Order doing Love Will Tear Us Apart better than Paul > Young doing the same? ohhh, c' mon... after all New Order is New Order like it or not.. somebody will comment Pink Flag and similar with Eardrum Buzz in context that they were gone, hmmm...under their criteria.. i will not, people change one way or another.. after all, that's their lives, we can only follow them or not.. freedom of choice is theirs.. i like to hear yr. opinions always... and Mark ones..( i think he's busy now watching Champions League..like i am ) greetings to all, and especially Leyton Orient fans.. mileta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:16:30 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off > > Ouch! Thats about #17.40 in UK pounds folks! I'd expect a major live show > > plus support and a couple of pints for that really! > > > > That's about the standard price you pay for gigs in Israel - colin & Malka's > gig a couple of years ago cost me about 20 quid (which was worth it, of > course). hmmm, price for pretentious pop band from 80's band is below.. > Soft Cell: The reunion of Marc Almond and Dave Ball earlier this year was warmly welcomed by critics and fans alike, with their Eighties chart-toppers Tainted Love and Bedsitter sounding as fresh as ever. Having racked up some laps with house team The Grid in the interim, Ball has lost none of his touch for driving hooks, while Almond retains his emotive frontman form. No wilting wallflowers, here's another chance to catch the synth-pop veterans' new material and rediscover some classic pop songs and depraved electronic experiments. Brixton Academy, SW9, doors 7.30pm, #18.50, 020 7771 2000. i saw Nick Cave in Budapest in march.. cannot remeber how much will be in pounds but something between 25 and 30 ... and saw Tuxedo Moon in december last year here in Belgrade for 10 DEM ( about 3-4 pounds...) cheers, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:20:48 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] on topic question.. What exactly does a DJ Beekeeper set sound like?...what kinds of artists records/cds does Bruce play??? Since i live in the states and will probably never get to hear a set i would at least like to know what i have missed? any help? Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:11:30 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Plastikman rip-off In a message dated 31/10/01 16:08:01 GMT Standard Time, timrobinson@cwcom.net writes: > "Chuffed" means being very pleased with something, however it is often used > in a sarcastic tone, in which case it would apply to your situation here! > It can also mean to fart. Hi everyone.I've been reading everything from the sidelines & am catching up after moving house & all that goes with it.I'll endeavour to write something more interesting & less flippant next time. Music bought last week & played this week; 2cd from Virgin "World Music 2001" - A list of artists that make the mouth water i.e. Manu Chao-Cesaria Evora-Radio Tarifa-Momo Wandel Soumah-Huong Than- Marc Ribot-Benjamin Zephaniah-Taraf de Haidouks-Susheela raman-Los Lobos-Kayah Bregovic-Djoloff B - Colin Newman 7" from 1980 The Durutti Column - Obey The Time (Just great stuff) The Aphex Twin - Donkey Rhubarb -4 track EP. The Teardrop Explodes - Greatest Hit (Nostalgia knows no bounds) Bruce Gilbert - Ab Ovo (Finally got a copy after many years & not disappointed at all !!) By the way Robert Lynn I haven't forgotten that Eyeless in Gaza stuff for you.Been a bit busy. regards to all Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:40:05 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] on-topic topics, politics, and Paul Young on 10/31/01 10:52 PM, Miles Goosens at outdoorminer@mindspring.com wrote: > Where I differ from Gil is in the proposition that all off-topic threads > are created equal. As the listowner -- and perhaps just as relevantly, as > a READER of this forum -- civility is one of my uppermost concerns. Topics > that involve politics are among the most likely to provoke ideological > posturing and reflexive name calling, do little to change readers' minds, > and, particularly at this juncture, are the most likely to divide and > destroy the list. The mention of Simple Minds and Depeche Mode may provoke > some listmembers into apoplectic paroxysms, but I doubt if John Ashcroft > will be clapping them into irons for slandering Jim Kerr. The stakes in > these threads are *very* different, and the potential harm that an extended > political discussion could do the list is much greater than a volley of > opinions about ELO. > > Perhaps just as relevant is the fact that, however far we stray, this is a > *Wire* list, a forum whose whole reason for being is so *Wire* fans can > discuss *Wire.* There are forums aplenty across the Internet for folks who > want to discuss the political situation. I'd suggest that listmembers who > are so inclined visit their opinions on one of those corners of the > Internet. Idealcopy is not pure escapism, but I would like it to be a > place where listfolk can think about something else for a change rather > than the list becoming yet another place where the current crisis is > inescapable. > > We do tolerate off-topic threads here, of course, but as the list rules > (which everyone gets when they subscribe to the list) qualify it, "as long > as the thread winds its way back to Wire." The post of Gil's I'm quoting > actually makes the required linkage, tying the world crisis and > globalization back to Colin and Wire, so it's actually on-topic! However, > I doubt that it would stay that way in an extended discussion. At that > point, the thread should be taken off-list; those still interested should > remain copied, while the rest of us idealcopyists return to our daily > routine of wagering on what Kevin Eden mostly listened to last night (I > collect the list's pool if Patrick Hernandez's "Born To Be Alive" shows up > at any time). > > In short, I'd like to see listmembers keep political discussions polite, > relevant to Wire if possible, and to a minimum at that. Of course I don't want the Wire list to turn into a political forum, but I also don't want it to become a-political. I think the whole concept of Wire and its members' solo projects is very political (but then, i'm one of those persons who think that the way we breath has a political meaning to it) - just the fact that it's off-mainstream (which I think everyone would agree with) proves that. No, I'm not saying that all off-topic subjects are equal. I would not want, for example, anyone sharing their sex life on the list (except for that story about Nico, which was quite interesting), and the likes of Simple minds do have some (obscure) relevance to this list if only for the fact that they were a British band that operated during the 80's, but I'm totally against the bias against politics some members here exercise. If someone is offended by something, it's a different matter - political discussions should be polite and civil - but I won't stand for anyone attacking someone just for expressing an off-comment political view. Maybe I'm being over-sensitive just because of the fact that I live in a country where most people would consider my political views as treason, where a political or an a-poltical consensus is what most people wanna hear and everything that strays from it is considered mad (best case scenario), where there is a lot of wasted talent in all fields, from politics to art, because of mainstream orientation, where every different opinion is silenced or co-opted immediately, where the government did in 3 years time what it took Thatcher more than 10 years to do in Britain, where there are 1st rate citizens, 2nd rate citizens (1 million) and non-citizens (2 million of them), where the TV is so biased I have to watch foreign news and internet sites to know what's really happening in my country, where fascist and racist ideas are being taught in schools, where the socialist-democratioc party is actually just a bit left of centre (and I'm not talking about the Israeli labour - they're a bit right of centre). I view this list as a living community - I'm a member of a few other lists which also have around the same amount of persons but not the same amount of material sent - this is certainly the most 'live' list I've been to. Funny thing is, I believe most people here share the more or less same political opinions, and the fact that we're all Wire fans is just one symptom of it, just as most of us are white males with an academic education and an inclination towards arty-farty (as Keith Moon would call it) acts (female/non-white members take no offence). It's certainly a generalisation, but if you'd do an off-list survey I'm sure ou would find that most of us are left-winged (Ray Ciscon being the only exception, I think). So why is the slightest mention of anything poltical makes some listmembers go wild? (and I'm not only referring to anything connected with the September attrocities here) Do Wire have to write political lyrics just so that you'll realise they've got a political agenda (and they did)? Because it's a live community, and because the world is falling apart, and because 6,000 innocent people died in NY, and because there are 6 million refugees in Aghanistan (doesn't this number make you shudder? and winter just started), I would expect political subjects to pop on the list from time to time, not more than that, but not less as well. > >> ps. What makes New Order doing Love Will Tear Us Apart better than Paul >> Young doing the same? > > I've not heard New Order doing it, and there's certainly the possibility > that New Order's version is a travesty. For instance, lord knows that I > hate hate hate the movie-recut and acoustic versions of "Pretty in Pink" > that the Psychedelic Furs have unleashed upon the earth, even though I'm > still wild about the original TALK TALK TALK version. OK, Richard Butler > didn't off himself between versions of the song, so it's not a perfect > analogy, but sure, it's still possible to butcher your own past material, > and it's *possible* that a dodgy Paul Young-type (or Dennis > DeYoung-type) might pull off a better version than the butchered > original-artist remake. > > However, it's highly unlikely! I can't imagine that Tom Waits on his worst > night could churn out a "Downtown Train" that's worse than Rod Stewart's > syrup and strings hack job. Or perhaps better (worse?), I still think any > Lou Reed-performed version of "Street Hassle" would top any (ha! no, we > can't shake 'em!) Simple Minds version! :-) > Just couldn't escape the opportunity to slag off New Order. I could ask the same question about Wire doing Pink Flag tracks in 2000 - what's the difference? Wire were fucking awesome, that's the difference, and that's the only one that counts. If any list member would say that NO were awesome too I'll respect their opinions (though I'll certainly doubt it). cheers, giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #328 *******************************