From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #322 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, October 26 2001 Volume 04 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] now playing... [Mark Short ] [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads [Ian Calder ] Re: [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - oh, darling, sugar, honey... [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Which one's Echo? [Tim ] [idealcopy] OT: Aphex Twin and the demise of Warp Records [Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] now playing... RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > > <<< Russell Mills & Undark- Pearls + Umbra>>>> > > this is such a wonderful record.....i love Mills artwork and wish i had some > of it....there is a book collecting pictures of his artwork, does anyone > remember the title? > Are you thinking of "More Dark Than Shark", a book of his illustrations of Eno's lyrics? I can't get too excited about the illustrations (they're just a bit too literal) but Mills' explanations of the illustrations are quite interesting. Mark S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:04:33 +0100 From: Ian Calder Subject: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:36:04 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mcgeogh > p.s. the u.s. pvc 12" of arabian knights has the album version on side a and > one of my fave siouxsongs on side b (supernatural thing) along with 2 other > previously unreleased tracks (conga conga and slap dash snap). huh, supernatural Thing is one one of my favourite banshees tracks.. am i amongst few who adired their b-sides.. to hell i cannot remember that b-sides of 7" of dazzle which i like, like, like very much, what's anme of track.. sadly, i sold it when i sold my vinyl collection mileta The B side of the 7" of 'Dazzle' was 'I Promise' - on the 12" there was also 'Throw Them To The Lions', which I liked a lot. (UK 7" and 12" I'm referring to, don't know about foreign issues.) There were some great Banshees B sides that would be worth collecting together - just a few, from the top of my head; 'Tattoo', 'Eve White/Eve Black', 'Coal Mind', 'Quart erdrawing of the Dog', 'Umbrella', 'Lullaby', 'Drop Dead/Celebration'... etc, etc. Apparently, the Banshees themselves would be very keen to see this material given a re-issue (judging by comments I've read in the past on The Creatures website and Steve Severin's website), but the sticking point appears to be Universal, the company that now owns the rights to the material. Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:34:52 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] now playing... this morning i have had the pleasure of listening to the first three Kraftwerk albums: Kraftwerk 1 Kraftwerk 2 Kraftwerk - Ralf and Florian it's amazing to me that these sound different to me everytime i listen to them, even after all these years....I'm at the end of Ralf and Florian right now and i'm listening to Ananas Symphonie and it's perfect for this dreary rainy day here in the midwest....does anyone know what the Tone Float lp sounds like? that is the only Kraftwerk related album i do not own.... 'Tone Float' is not too different from parts of 'Kraftwerk 1', though perhaps leans more towards late 60s influences from the immediately post-Syd Pink Floyd/Miles Davis free-improvisation style, as opposed to the krautrock/industrial noise feel. It's been a while since I last listened to it, I have to admit. It can be found on CD, though these are bootleg pressings - its never been officially reissued. Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:01:53 -0700 From: "Brian Young" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] now playing... Anyway, this morning's listening so far has been: Sonny Sharrock & Nicky Skopelitis- Live in NYC 9/9/91 Russell Mills & Undark- Pearls + Umbra Bill Nelson- Chameleon Wasn't 'Chameleon' the album of film-library music that Bill Nelson issued on LP round about 1986/87 or so? As far as I remember, it was only sent to media companies and the like, never given a proper, widespread release - has it ever been reissued and made more widely available? Like the Siouxsie B sides, Bill's catalogue is sorely in need of attention and being made available again. Can't recall either if it was all new material or merely previous material with different mixes and new names. It's discussed in an old copy of 'Acquited by Mirrors' that I have somewere or other. cheers, Ian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:15:25 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert on 25/10/01 3:36 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com at MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Don't forget Robert drummed on A-Z!!! << > > And Not To. Which features lyrics from Lewis and a bit of Gilbert guitar. > Robert is on Commercial Suicide too, and there are loops of him on Singing > Fish and Dome 1. And Des Simmonds' album too. I don't think Commercial Suicide has any drum parts (unless Robert joined the other Belgians and played on an organic cucumber). He does play on the two drum tracks of It Seems. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:26:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert Giluz, << I don't think Commercial Suicide has any drum parts (unless Robert joined the other Belgians and played on an organic cucumber). He does play on the two drum tracks of It Seems. >> What I meant. It was late! ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:25:13 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert >From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= >Subject: [idealcopy] Desert Island Gilbert > >Howard posed a difficult choice >>>>>Choosing your desert island selection, with the >barrel of a gun pressed >against your temple, whose SOLO output would you take >(Colin, Graham, >Bruce or the drumloop Rob did for fad gadget?). > >I'd choose Bruce's... Me too, ... easily. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:50:16 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] hmmm > Paul, your mother didn't quite get it right. Ross was talking to a caller, > who was reminising on the punk groups he had seen, and mentioned he had seen > Throbbing Gristle in '79. Jonathan Ross responded by saying "Now you're > talking my sort of music" and mentioned his liking for Zyclon B Zombie. > > Sadly he didn't any TG, but did play "Pretty Vacant". Full marks to your > mother none the less! /////i did actually catch her doing the ironing whilst humming "feedback song" by rema rema once , which i thought was pretty cool. i will repremand her for her lack of TG expertise shortly...... p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:17:03 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads In a message dated 10/25/01 6:06:37 AM Central Daylight Time, I.Calder@surrey.ac.uk writes: << huh, supernatural Thing is one one of my favourite banshees tracks.. am i amongst few who adired their b-sides.. to hell i cannot remember that b-sides of 7" of dazzle which i like, like, like very much, what's anme of track.. sadly, i sold it when i sold my vinyl collection mileta >> Hello Mileta! The B-sides to the Dazzle 12" are: "I Promise" and "Throw Them To The Lions"......and they are both great tunes...think i'm going to listen to all my old Siouxsie 12"s tonight....I love these boards, it reminds me of so much stuff then i go home and dig them out, ...along with all of the great/not so great memories attached to times past....take care! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:18:20 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads oops....i feel stupid now...Ian already answered that....duh... Robert (late on the draw again) Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:51:30 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads > Hello Mileta! The B-sides to the Dazzle 12" are: "I Promise" and "Throw Them > To The Lions"......and they are both great tunes...think i'm going to listen > to all my old Siouxsie 12"s tonight....I love these boards, it reminds me of > so much stuff then i go home and dig them out, ...along with all of the > great/not so great memories attached to times past....take care! > > Robert thanx.. i have only 7" and I Promise was song.. i like cover , if i can remember properly photo was made by Anton Corbijn. hmmm, i think that you will enjoy a lot.. there was a rumour that there will be 3 or 4 CD with Banshees B-sides, unrealesed and rare material, and i think it was going limping because of copyright reasons on Wonderland - Polydor relation.. similar with The Cure and B-sides etc, etc... cheerz, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:44:43 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] weekend listening: > Eden-Gateway To Mysteries >> > > Mileta, > Was this ever available on cd? The only format I've seen is cassette. > I've got to find a copy if it did come out on cd. > > Eric Yes, Third Mind/RoadRunner put it on CD with bonus EP. Some time ago i read on Eden web-site that Sean planned new album. we'll see... in same time Projekt was long time ago announced some kind of best of.. comp but never saw the light of the day. i always wonder why Sam Rosenthal didn' t reissue Gateway because as i know that CD is very hard to find.. mileta ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:57:09 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads > The B side of the 7" of 'Dazzle' was 'I Promise' - on the 12" there was > also 'Throw Them To The Lions', which I liked a lot. (UK 7" and 12" I'm > referring to, don't know about foreign issues.) There were some great > Banshees B sides that would be worth collecting together - just a few, from > the top of my head; 'Tattoo', 'Eve White/Eve Black', 'Coal Mind', 'Quart > erdrawing of the Dog', 'Umbrella', 'Lullaby', 'Drop Dead/Celebration'... > etc, etc. Apparently, the Banshees themselves would be very keen to see > this material given a re-issue (judging by comments I've read in the past > on The Creatures website and Steve Severin's website), but the sticking > point appears to be Universal, the company that now owns the rights to the > material. > thanx again.. as i owned only 7" , never heard "Throw Them To The Lions".. hmm, in meail to Robert i wrote something that you explain now.. should read all mails before i answer.. btw, what is adress of Severin web-site speaking about Banshees find in my library little catalogue from John Heartfield exhibition from 80' s here in Belgrade.. anyone remember him !?? Metal Postcard !!! rgds, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:12:40 +0100 From: "ian.s. jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - oh, darling, sugar, honey... >Not seen the Bunnies since about 1982, in Sefton Park, Liverpool. (Ian J, were you at that one?) despite having quite a few E&TB records, and you might find this hard to believe but... i have never seen them play live, despite loads of opportunities, obviously. i was totally besotted with 'Manc' bands at the time and never really appreciated them or the Teardrops till much later on. talked to Mac at a Sun Ra gig once though...wwwoooooo... ;-) ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:19:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] The Haring 2 & Jaz in Iceland Robert asked >>>>Hey, and does anyone know what became of that limited/mail order only Bruce Gilbert release that WMO were going to put out shortly before closing their doors? If / when Bruce records Haring 2, WMO will release it as a mail order only release. I'm sure Kevin will let us all know when the time comes... I've been to that Killing Joke site recently & it worked for me! Maybe try 0catch instead of Ocatch??? It used to be www.the-last-laugh.com but their domain name hire expired. I downloaded the radio session Jaz did with Peyr in Iceland (after Revelations) and it's way better than Fire Dances. It's a shame he didn't record a bit more with them! Does anyone know if Peyr released any records? Did they sound similar to the tracks with Jaz? LUYH! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert ____________________________________________________________ Nokia Game is on again. Go to http://uk.yahoo.com/nokiagame/ and join the new all media adventure before November 3rd. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:26:25 -0400 From: Mike Edwards Subject: [idealcopy] levine Based on somebody on the lists suggestion I read the Keith Levine interview in PERFECT SOUND FOREVER. Holy crap what an arrogant delusional git Keith Levine is. I don't doubt that he was instrumental in PIL's sound, but he takes credit for everything. My question to this modern day genius is, where ye been Keith? Your one solo album was junk and sounded wildly drug addled. Since then, silence. That dude needs to get a clue. PIL was magic. adieu- Mike E. People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790) Come see The Mike und Pat reader! http://CFT.tripod.com/mikeundpat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:36:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - oh, darling, sugar, honey... Ian, << despite having quite a few E&TB records, and you might find this hard to believe but... i have never seen them play live, despite loads of opportunities, obviously. << I'm astonished. On your own doorstep and everything! Guess I saw them about 8 times between 80 and 82, including what must have been one of the first gigs as a four-piece - Liverpool Pickwicks, supported by the Frantic Elevators :-/ That Sefton Park thing was also a Granada broadcast I think. They played The Cutter with Shankar, one of the few times they did. >>i was totally besotted with 'Manc' bands at the time and never really appreciated them or the Teardrops till much later on.<< Being equidistant from Liverpool and Manchester, and not supporting any of their football teams, I had a balanced perspective on the two cities!! >> talked to Mac at a Sun Ra gig once though...wwwoooooo...<< He always seemed very aloof - but apparently that was because he's very short-sighted and refused to wear glasses. Note perma-shades these days with bottle-bottom prescription! Used to talk to Pete Wylie. But didn't everyone! He was always impressed that we'd come all the way from Blackpool... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:34:38 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Which one's Echo? Mark wrote: >Not seen the Bunnies since about 1982, in Sefton Park, Liverpool. (Ian J, >were you at that one?) I saw the Bunnymen in Sefton Park ten years after that...1992! which was probably a different kettle of crocodiles altogether. This was the horror that was The Bunnymen without Mac, just prior to getting dropped by their record company, Playing all new, all rubbish material! All very Spinal Tap "Welcome to the new birth of Spinal Tap MkII...hope you enjoy our new direction"....."We can't play that..its one of Nigels tunes...well thats a cosy ten minute set then..." I believe the new singer was called Noel and he had less stage presence than one of Labradfords' Roadies. I read an interview where Will Sergeant admitted he imagined the Bunnymen could do a 'genesis' or a 'pink floyd' and scale greater heights even after replacing the frontman. Although their recent stuff has been wafer thin, nothing the Bunnymen have done since their reformation can possibly be as bad as this tragic sight. Fortunately I was a student at the time and under 'heavy sedation' myself. And it was a free festival...no money changed hands! No doubt theres some rabid Bunnymen fanatic out there for whom the 'Noel' period was the pinnacle of their career..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:40:00 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Aphex Twin and the demise of Warp Records Aphex Twin - Drukqs Loads of bad reviews for this one! Warp Records have hyped it and marketed it as a proper new LP by Aphex. It ain't! By his own admission its just a bunch of tracks he had on his Mp3 player....and having left said device on a plain he decided to release them all instead of have someone bootleg him. Yet Warp have already opted to re-release this one on the "finest quality Audiophile vinyl" later this year. This says a lot more about the state of the, newly relocated to London, Warp Records than it does about Richard D James. Lest we forget that Richard James announced his retirement from the music biz some years back. So what you have in Drukqs (geddit? Sounds a bit like Drugs...ooo-er) is two CDs worth of Aphex just doing what he does in the comfort of his bedroom....with no attempt to please the music press. There is nothing here to match the Windowlicker single for chart-busting funkiness and zeitgest shagging or whatever it is that young people demand these days. However, were this to be released as a 'Basement Tapes'-style semi-official mysterious bootleg ten years from now it would be hailed as some kind of 'lost classic', because it is chock-full of top quality Aphex Twin tracks...what else do you want from an Aphex Twin record?! This is Aphex Twin at his most stubborn and masturbatory....but its still, 'lush' as Mr James would say. Its no 'Ambient Works Vol 1' or Vol.2 for that matter. But its still a wonderful collection of Aphex tunes, of the standard one would expect from his more obscure releases as Polygon Window, Analogue Bubblebath, AFX, or whatever else is changing hands for #50 plus on Ebay right now. OK there is no great stylistic leap forward, no incredible new dawn for the electronic generation... Autechre zoomed way ahead of Aphex several years ago in the genre-redefining stakes anyway. I doubt Richard James will ever record another 'proper' album (some may argue he never has!), and maybe this is his way of saying...look I've run out of ideas...this is all there is! He's perhaps killing his own myth! Perhaps this will prove to be his equivalent of Syd Barrets solo stuff, or Brian Wilsons 'Adult Child'. Just a curio for fans...a retrospective that rewards serious listening. So zero points to Warp for marketing this as something it isn't.. This isn't an incredible new Aphex Twin album....its a compilation of unreleased stuff for fans. Warp just wanted to squeeze ever penny out of it! The sign of a label on the slide? They have treated this record like they were just any other major record label.....and they have put one or two rather dodgy records out this year. (Vincent Gallo, Bromthosates.....) Maybe Warp are going the way of other great indie labels Factory and Creation before them. Maybe 10 years of greatness is all we should expect from any label. (They should never have left Sheffield....maybe I should never have left Sheffield....) Tim. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:36:09 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads In a message dated 10/25/01 3:54:05 PM, baltazar@panet.bits.net writes: > >speaking about Banshees find in my library little catalogue from John >Heartfield exhibition from 80' s here in Belgrade.. >anyone remember him !?? >Metal Postcard !!! john heartfield the collage guy? if so, what's the banshees connection? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:37:40 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads > john heartfield the collage guy? if so, what's the banshees connection? > -paul c.d. John Heartfield was in fact Helmut Herzfeld but his life was so hard to describe that i will only told you, that he was artist who suffered pressure of Nazis etc, etc.. He was german born in 1891 and died 1968 in Berlin. His works was photo-montage in which he uses symbols of nazism and on that way fight against it, As a consequence he was not one of favourite nazi's artist form beginning of 30's.. Works with Dadaist, etc, etc.. If you will be in interest i can wrote more, because i have this catalogue with all of his facts, but maybe something can be find on Internet. Banshees like his work and wrote and dedicated Metal Postcard as a hommage to his work. In that purpose in beginning of their career flirting with Nazis symbols like Sioux waering haken kreuz und swastika, etc, etc... Remember that i read somewhere she said that she felt that way somehow related with John Heartfields work, and her's fight vs. nazism and all opressive things. i hope is enough !! Btw, somewhere read that Budgie adore to read J.P.Sartre.. was that true...!! some said isn' t, because he know him.. nevermind, he was human drum-machine... also, i must told that i wasn' t impressed with last Creatures album, even if there is message to Billy Mackenzie which is touching.. cheerz.. mileta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:22:29 +0100 From: Ian Calder Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Responding to various OT threads btw, what is adress of Severin web-site it's... http://www.stevenseverin.com/ Ian ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #322 *******************************