From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #310 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, October 14 2001 Volume 04 : Number 310 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck [voyteck@webtv.net] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy [giluz ] [idealcopy] RE: Mercy ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! ["Andrew Lumbard" ] Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT-Depeche Mode remixes ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT [jeffh@artnet.net (Je] [idealcopy] Re: FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT [jeffh@artne] Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck [francis Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy on 13/10/01 5:06 AM, Paul Pietromonaco at paulp@wrq.com wrote: >> let's wake up and smell the state-culture apparatus! >> > > Please take this discussion off list. This topic has no place on a > Wire mailing list. This is best discussed privately between interested > parties. > > Thank you. > > Cheers, > Paul > This is beginning to piss me off - why is that not worthy of the list while talking about football results is? I don't like football but I ignore those messages. You dont like politics - ignore the political ones. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:31:27 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Mercy THANK YOU Paul! I could hardly dignify this thread with a comment! If you want a soapbox - GO TO THE GROCER! >Please take this discussion off list. This topic has no place on a >Wire mailing list. This is best discussed privately between interested >parties. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 16:06:45 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! aaaaarrggggghhhhhhh........and we though the Simple Minds covers album was a bad enough concept :-) In celebration of a new ELO album ("Zoom" due in July) and touring for the band this summer and fall, Not Lame is proud to announce this excellent collection of Lynne's songs; many artists are yet to be announced but, presently, the following have committed(but it still, technically, 'unofficial' until all songs are received this summer", please understand): Jason Falkner, Todd Rundgren, Matthew Sweet and Jeffrey Foskett , SWAG (featuring members of Wilco, The Mavericks, Cheap Trick), Jamie Hoover (Spongetones), Richard Barone, Sixpence None The Richer, The Hollies, Bill Lloyd, The Shazam, Bobby Sutliff/Mitch Easter, Neilson Hubbard, Peter Holsapple, Ben Lee, Doug Powell, Tony Visconti (yes, the producer), Pray For Rain (PFR), Fleming And John, Earl Slick, Ross Rice and many others to be announced in the coming months. All bow to the return of the Mighty Lynne and hail a truly unique visionary in the history of rock 'n roll. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:45:56 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy Giluz, at first i thought to send this on list.. > This is beginning to piss me off - why is that not worthy of the list while > talking about football results is? I don't like football but I ignore those > messages. You dont like politics - ignore the political ones. > > giluz i agree with Giluz, and will try to make a peace between football & politics.. and i and giluz cannot agree on many artistic topic, ha, ha.. i will cite Billy Bragg as my statement !! when there was a Gulf War he said on NME question about his opinion. it is like World Cup Final, match between two teams you cannot decide which one you hate !? and not any one of them is one you supported . peace mileta PS. i will ask again does anyone know something about bande called A.Mon i serch through Net & nothing find.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:04:06 +0300 From: giluz Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy on 13/10/01 3:45 PM, MrSodium@aol.com at MrSodium@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/13/01 7:26:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > giluz@netvision.net.il writes: > > << why is that not worthy of the list while > talking about football results is? >> > > > Giluz: > > Because inane or offensive comments about sports or music are still > diversions at worst; while those about people living and dying really mean > something to most people. They do to me. > > I knew someone on one of the trade center planes. I do not wish to read one > more presumptuous commentary from an ignoramous about how they deserved it, > or the US is to blame; or some other half witted horseshit. > > Joel > I agree in principle but I don't think anyone said anything to that effect and noone intended to insult the memory of anyone who tragically died that day - if anyone took offence I don't think it's the right place. I do believe, however, that deaths of 1st world citizens count much more than deaths of 3rd world citizens - I see it around me every day with Israelis and Palestinians. I am horrified and shocked by the WTC attak. I am also horrified and appalled about a few million Afghan refugees starving because the US president needs to show the world that someone's got to pay for the US terrorist attacks. There is a strong connection between the US foreign policy of the last few decades and the rise of poverty and terror in the 3rd world. That doesn't mean to say that I think (or anyone else - I didn't even write the offending mail) innocent people, anywhere, deserve to die because of it. But the righteous hypocrisy of the US representing the current war as a good against evil war, without even debating its own past and current contributon to the situation, is really annoying. I'm defending this point so strongly because I think people should be able to express their free political beliefs about current affairs (as long as they do not appear too frequently - this is still a wire list), especially now with current affairs, where the world situation would probably worsen in the next few years. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:05:40 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck are you referring to the actual meaning of the album title? i have always found it akin to marcel duchamp's readymade art objects in the way that something is something only once you make it that thing, otherwise it may function just as well as something else... which is also akin to rene magritte's painting of a pipe, titled "this is not a pipe", the title reminding us what we are actually looking at as opposed to what our brains quickly register it to be... though there may be a much more specific meaning of which i'm totally unaware :o) - -paul c.d. (another the paul) In a message dated 10/13/01 5:53:26 AM, voyteck@webtv.net writes: >Dare I ask what this is about? Anyone at liberty able to decipher its >meaning? Is it simply another sociological intertwine of music & life, >albeit via proxy (as title)? Reminiscent of youth, the safety of taking >(drawing) a bath with Mr Bubble (brand bubble bath). Shame those bubbles >have long since popped and we have to lock up our hats, almost like a >hell made world. I've had it with all the cursed voodoo jinxing hexes >contemplating the spirituality of one's navel. Out ointment / In Vivo! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:44:00 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! In a message dated 13/10/01 16:14:12 GMT Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > > > > > > aaaaarrggggghhhhhhh........and we though the Simple Minds covers album was a > bad enough concept :-) > > In celebration of a new ELO album ("Zoom" due in July) and touring for the > band this summer and fall, Not Lame is proud to announce this excellent > collection of Lynne's songs...... > > ///// well hey , i will certainly be buying that. in a local paper i saw an > ad for a great sounding gig , a few lesser members of ELO have teamed up > with a "real" orchestra and are doing a tour of "orchestral interpretations > of ELO's finest moments". no jeff sadly , but i'm sure still well worth a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 20:52:48 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Depeche Mode remixes I bought today bootleg of Depeche Mode - some sort of CD-rom with very original title DreamOn remixed album 2001 well, does anyone know what of this appear on original DO singles, or anyone can type what is on original singles. OK, list is 1.Dream On ( single version ) 3:41 2.Easy Tiger ( full version ) 4:55 3. D.O ( pink noize club mix ) 7:39 4.I Feel You ( retouched multimix ) 10:00 5.Easy Tiger ( B & A's dragon ) 4:51 6.Rush ( emergency mix ) 7:47 7.Dream On ( Dave Clarke Acoustic Mix ) 4:24 8.Dream On ( Buschwacka Tough Guy Edit ) 4:37 9.Personal Jesus ( Touch Faith Sinners Mix ) 5:22 10.D.O ( Octagon man mix ) 5:24 11.Dream On ( Buschwacka Tough Guy Vocal Mix ) 5:22 12.Master And Servant ( New Servant Mix ) 6:39 13.D.O ( pink noize dub ) 6:35 it seems that include and some fan's mixes.. older songs are compilation of few remixes ( like some sort of megamix ) like that " I Feel You " multimix . thanx in advance.. mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:53:15 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck > Dare I ask what this is about? Anyone at liberty able to decipher its > meaning? Well, there's the reason given in the (excellent) Wire Biography "Everybody Loves A History" (by listmember Kevin Eden). According to Bruce (and I'm paraphrasing here), it's the summary of a Zen Koan. The story is that what you choose to call something - it can be that thing or it can be something simpler, by one small action. (A bell is a cup until it is struck.) The horse and the filing cabinet are both containers, for example - one literal, one philosophical. Hope this helps, Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:10:09 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy > I'm defending this point so strongly because I think people should be able > to express their free political beliefs about current affairs (as long as > they do not appear too frequently - this is still a wire list), especially > now with current affairs, where the world situation would probably worsen in > the next few years. > Of course, people should be free to express their political beliefs. But, let's remember that this is primarily a Wire mailing list, and not a political forum. There are more appropriate places to have important, on-going political discussions. I'm speaking for the listowner here, (feel free jump in here, Miles!), but historically most of the off-topic posts eventually wind their way back to Wire - even the football ones - that's why they're allowed. But, generally and historically, political posts do not. If you can tie this thread into a Wire-related subject, by all means, go ahead. Otherwise, please be considerate of your fellow listmembers, and take this off-list. Thank you. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:05:14 -0700 From: jeffh@artnet.net (Jeff Hall) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT Is the instrumental version of "King Is White" available on CD? Thanks, Jeff >erm...what was the question?? ;-) > >Mark > ><< but I don't think I've seen a question asked here that > someone hasn't answered, at great length mind you :-) before - this has got > to be a first >> > >- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:13:14 -0700 From: jeffh@artnet.net (Jeff Hall) Subject: [idealcopy] Re: FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT Just spent a few minutes getting all chummy with google, which I should have done in the first place, and the answer appears to be no except for on a vinyl bootleg. Jeff >Laurel, > >I'm delighted to say I haven't got a clue!! > >Mark :-) > ><< I'm glad you asked that question Mark - Jeff wrote this on the 10th: > > < of Simple Minds "King Is White" (the LP version is "The King Is > White And In The Crowd.") Since none of the old Touch tapes are > released on CD, is that instrumental version available elsewhere? > > This version is much different than the LP version, and is way > more interesting to me. The original run of Feature Mist cassettes > was largely ruined by flood, as was later re-released (unfortuately > without booklet) and the track on the new version has a slightly > different lead-in. Both versions of the track on tape are great, > but the clarity of a CD version would be better. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:38:40 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! Please take this discussion off list. This topic has no place on a Wire mailing list. This is best discussed privately between interested parties. Mark ;-) >>In celebration of a new ELO album ("Zoom" due in July) and touring for the band this summer and fall, Not Lame is proud to announce this excellent collection of Lynne's songs; many artists are yet to be announced but, presently, the following have committed(but it still, technically, 'unofficial' until all songs are received this summer", please understand): Jason Falkner, Todd Rundgren, Matthew Sweet and Jeffrey Foskett , SWAG (featuring members of Wilco, The Mavericks, Cheap Trick), Jamie Hoover (Spongetones), Richard Barone, Sixpence None The Richer, The Hollies, Bill Lloyd, The Shazam, Bobby Sutliff/Mitch Easter, Neilson Hubbard, Peter Holsapple, Ben Lee, Doug Powell, Tony Visconti (yes, the producer), Pray For Rain (PFR), Fleming And John, Earl Slick, Ross Rice and many others to be announced in the coming months. All bow to the return of the Mighty Lynne and hail a truly unique visionary in the history of rock 'n roll.<< ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:40:07 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy Mileta, << it is like World Cup Final, match between two teams you cannot decide which one you hate !? >> Rather like the 1999 European Cup Final, ManU v Bayern... Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:53:39 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You can't keep ELO off this list! Paul, << > ///// well hey , i will certainly be buying that. in a local paper i saw an > ad for a great sounding gig , a few lesser members of ELO have teamed up > with a "real" orchestra and are doing a tour of "orchestral interpretations > of ELO's finest moments". no jeff sadly , but i'm sure still well worth a >> Worth a what? A trip to the dentists, with no anaesthetic, as a more pleasurable alternative?? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:51:15 -0700 From: francis Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck > which is also akin to rene > magritte's painting of a pipe, titled "this is not a pipe", the title > reminding us what we are actually looking at as opposed to what our brains > quickly register it to be... though there may be a much more specific meaning > of which i'm totally unaware :o) I don't know if that's what you meant, but the Magritte's statement is that you're not looking at an actual pipe, but at the representation of a pipe (this is not a pipe, but an image of a pipe). In our society we're more often looking at the representation of things (be it through TV, posters, pictures, etc.) than at the real things. This is one of the basic argument of the postmodern philosophy, but don't get me into that please... Cheers, francis ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:55:23 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Sad gig of the day At Guildford Civic Hall tonight there was a gig by one of the many Jam tribute bands that does the UK circuit. Support was Eddie & the Hot Rods. The real Eddie & the Hot Rods. Tragic. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:43:34 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A bell is a cup until it is struck yep, that's exactly what i meant. - -paul c.d. In a message dated 10/13/01 5:55:52 PM, francisd@total.net writes: >I don't know if that's what you meant, but the Magritte's statement is >that >you're not looking at an actual pipe, but at the representation of a pipe >(this >is not a pipe, but an image of a pipe). In our society we're more often >looking >at the representation of things (be it through TV, posters, pictures, etc.) >than >at the real things. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:07:45 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] a bell is a cup until it is struck (kidney)BINGO(s)!!! Here's a link derived from recent replys which helps explain the theory behind the title abiacuiis (probably close to what's behind Bruce's summary of a Zen story [?] in naming '..bell is a cup..'), of Rene Magritte's 'this pipe is not here' painting, and even see into kidney bingos a little clearer: http://www.lissack.com/writings/warsaw1.htm Feeling enlightened by the read, I went on to Wire linking to find Piero Scaruffi's Wire page ( http://www.scaruffi.com/vol4/wire.html ). He's asking for a translation from Italian to English text, which at first I thought was just this Wire page. Piero's looking for help translating Italian text 'history of rock music' to English text! Anyone interested click on link to see if his pay justifies the effort. Aside from the Wire web page being inoperative (Andrews), his links to other sites is commendable! Trouser press was listed and inoperative; Trouser press hasn't worked in long time. Anyone know what's become of them? Have a smile reading these Wire boards: http://www.rollingstone.com/boards/messages.asp?lngTabID=1&tid=10708&oid=404&cf=404&seq=0&bc=0 Finally, regarding 1 2 taboo: http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo has extensive insight, possibly some comfort. rgds, voyteck ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #310 *******************************