From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #309 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 13 2001 Volume 04 : Number 309 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] wir-so and slow it grows [voyteck@webtv.net] [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT [Hatsephsut@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil's Cold Cell ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT [Hatsephsut@aol.] [idealcopy] Re: FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT [MarkBursa@a] [idealcopy] talibans was right !! stop & ban the television ( or sesame street at least !! ) ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] wir-so and slow it grows (cdmute107) [voyteck@webtv.net] Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy [Paul Pietromonaco ] [idealcopy] Re: taking OT discussions off list [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 03:58:35 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] wir-so and slow it grows As a matter of topic timing, play your sasig EP (cdmute107) for the alternate takes ... eerie how #2 sasig (orb in atlas mix) has middleastern sound and #4 take it (lfo remix) relates to NYC. These 1991 cuts 'now' are almost mystical ... voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:57:22 EDT From: Hatsephsut@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT In a message dated 10/12/01 3:31:52 AM Central Daylight Time, owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org writes: > You have nothing to be concerned about, remember that I don't read this! > > Jeff > Well, as long as we're not reading (and we ARE kidding you guys) (although I do admit I get busy and have to catch up) I really don't know the answer to your question - I haven't listened to much Simple Minds on my own - I can't believe no one else here can answer that though, unless they're just not coughing up the info - but I don't think I've seen a question asked here that someone hasn't answered, at great length mind you :-) before - this has got to be a first Laurel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:21:35 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil's Cold Cell > > Mileta suggested some listening for the megalomaniacs > >>>>> bin Laden - Sisterhood/Jihad > > > > There's also a Killing Joke instrumental called > > 'Jihad' which appears on their rather critical and > > also rather crap single 'America' which always > > reminded me of 'Jump' by Van Halen and put me off the > > band for years. speaking about Killing Joke, song more to be in touch with recent events could be also one b-side " Goodbye To The Villages " who told you how to follow the leaders ? butcher(s) tension unspeakable what's this for !? and Christiana wishfull thinking for a moment.. Brighter Than a 1000 Suns.. anyone has info what Jaz doing in this moment ?? > > > > And don't forget Eno's delightfull "Burning Airlines Give You So Much More" > - this seems to happen quite frequently lately as well. He should wrote new one " Music For Airports - security part " To relax people there... mileta > > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:27:16 -0500 From: "r\)\(0\)\(m" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy the view's not so nice from here: i am first and foremost an american i was and continue to be personally devastated by the events of september 11 i sincerely believe there is no precedent for that event in terms of scope and i see no justification whatsoever for such an action that said, i wish the rest of the world to know that there are plenty of americans who recognize hipocracy in our foreign policy we have never frozen the funds of any of my neighbors on the northwest side of chicago, although i would hazard a guess many have contributed to the IRA throughout the years we were unconcerned about bosnia for 10s of years we were unconcerned about sadaam until he threatened the price of our oil and we were not wholehearted about bin laden until we needed a focus (however well or poorly placed) for our anger for september 11 september 11 lowered the bar for human behavior the world over quite honestly, anything short of WWIII will be a successful outcome in my estimation ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:01:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT erm...what was the question?? ;-) Mark << but I don't think I've seen a question asked here that someone hasn't answered, at great length mind you :-) before - this has got to be a first >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:13:48 EDT From: Hatsephsut@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT >>erm...what was the question?? ;-) >>Mark I'm glad you asked that question Mark - Jeff wrote this on the 10th: <> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:53:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: FAO Mark Bursa re: Jeff and Simple Minds OT Laurel, I'm delighted to say I haven't got a clue!! Mark :-) << I'm glad you asked that question Mark - Jeff wrote this on the 10th: <> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:48:40 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] talibans was right !! stop & ban the television ( or sesame street at least !! ) Bin Laden's Felt-Skinned Henchman? =20 NEW YORK - Do the global terror links reach even as far as Sesame = Street? Is Bert the Muppet a henchman of terrorist mastermind Usama bin = Laden?The answer is clearly no, but puzzled newspaper readers are still = wondering how the Sesame Street icon ended up in a news service = photograph of a pro-bin Laden protest in Bangladesh. The pictures = clearly showed demonstrators holding up a large poster in which bin = Laden and Bert are standing next to each other. The picture quickly began making the e-mail rounds Wednesday morning, = astonishing and provoking laughter from Los Angeles to Switzerland to = South Korea. The poster is a collage of pictures of bin Laden in white robes, = camouflage fatigues and lecturing with a microphone in his hand, all = ringing a large portrait of the bearded Saudi exile. Along the bottom is = printed "Usama." On the right side of the picture, just past the right = shoulder of the large portrait, is irascible Bert, bosom buddy of Ernie. The photographs do not appear to have been doctored. They were taken by = news photographers covering at least two different demonstrations from = different angles on at least two separate days. The first known Bert-bin Laden posters appeared on Oct. 5 in the = Bangladeshi capital, Dhaka, and photographs of them were printed by the = Dutch news service Algemeen Nederlands Persbureau and the Associated = Press and Reuters news services. At least one other photograph including = the posters was taken at another location by Reuters photographer = Rafiqur Rahman on Oct. 9. Reuters spokeswoman Felicia Cosby said the photos were authentic. We've just noticed it ourselves, since you queried, that there is Bert = on that poster," she said. "I don't know if they're mass-producing these = posters, but what I can say is that it is definitely our policy not to = doctor photographs." Associated Press spokesman Jack Stokes said the AP photographs were also = untouched. We haven't changed the photo at all," he said. "We have very strict = editing guidelines." The AP photographs were taken by Pavel Rahman. Stokes said he did not = know if Rahman was another name for, or related to, Rafiqur Rahman. Cosby said Rafiqur Rahman, a native Bangladeshi, did not know that he = was photographing a Muppet when he covered a prayer demonstration for = bin Laden's health Oct. 9. "The photographer is as bemused as we are," she said. "He didn't know = what that furry creature was." Rahman is going to a local marketplace to hunt down more Bert-bin Laden = posters Wednesday, Cosby said.=20 The creator of a parody Web site dedicated to "Evil Bert" said he had a = theory about how an associate of Kermit the Frog, Big Bird and = Snuffleupagus had been recruited into the Al Qaeda cause.=20 For several years, Dino Ignacio, 27, a San Francisco 3-D animator, had = been maintaining a humor Web site that purported to "prove" that the = bad-tempered, banana-shaped Jim Henson creation was connected to evil = causes from Hitler and the JFK assassination to the stolen Pamela = Anderson sex tapes and Kevin Costner movies. But he stopped maintaining = the site when he lost interest in 1998. A week after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, someone = e-mailed him an altered picture of bin Laden standing next to Bert = wearing a trenchcoat and looking very angry. Ignacio didn't post the = picture on his site out of respect for victims of the terror attack, but = the picture began showing up on Bert fan sites and in other odd corners = of the Internet. "What I'm thinking is that [someone there] has access to the Internet, = got this picture to pop up off of Alta Vista or Google and put together = this collage," he said.=20 Of course, the other explanation might be that Bert has finally ditched = Ernie, canceled his account at Mr. Hooper's shop and taken his = Kalashnikov to the other side of the war.=20 Sesame Workshop issued a statement saying it was very unhappy with the = sudden connection between a lovable character with a penchant for = pigeons and bottlecaps and the most wanted man in the world. "Sesame Street has always stood for mutual respect and understanding," a = spokeswoman said. "We're outraged that our characters would be used in = this unfortunate and distasteful manner. This is not at all humorous.The = people responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves. We are = exploring all legal options to stop this abuse and any similar abuses in = the future." When asked about Bert's current whereabouts, however, the spokeswoman = replied: "No comment." Regardless of the explanation, Ignacio said he doesn't find his "Evil = Bert" idea very funny right now. "It's weirding me out," he said. "It's like reality imitating the Web, = but it's taking something that I did so much further. I don't want to = get into this one because it's too real." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,36218,00.html TO SEE HOW IT LOOKS... and we abolished Jaz Coleman & Andrew Eldritch... hmmmm....!?? mileta [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of clear_dot.gif] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:39:57 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Jeff Hall and Simple Minds - OT > erm...what was the question?? ;-) > > Mark can i play 2 on Liverpool vs. Leeds tomorrow.. i know that LU isn' t Grimsby but... inpatient Mileta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:31:18 -0400 From: "k erickson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy >>the view's not so nice from here: >>i am first and foremost an american >>i was and continue to be personally devastated by the events of september 11 >>i sincerely believe there is no precedent for that event in terms of scope >>and i see no justification whatsoever for such an action strange to see an artificial boundary on the map cited as a person's prime sense of identity. especially the United States (aka 'America'). no precedent? does anyone remember the twentieth century? the holocaust, Stalin's purges, Pol Pot's massacres, the list goes on....destruction of human life on a massive scale. those acts were supposed to signal the 'end of innocence', etc.; but not for Americans, i guess. they still believed that it was happening to other, less entitled peoples, so their national self-myth could be maintained. >we were unconcerned about bosnia for 10s of years >>we were unconcerned about sadaam until he threatened the price of our oil >>and we were not wholehearted about bin laden until we needed a focus >>(however well or poorly placed) for our anger for september 11 oh, we were a lot more than just 'unconcerned'!! what's the opposite of 'damning with faint praise'? apologising with faint blame? >>september 11 lowered the bar for human behavior the world over >>quite honestly, anything short of WWIII will be a successful outcome in my >>estimation millions of non-Americans are killed through direct or indirect consequences of US policies, but when some Americans die it's the End of the World. or, as you suggest, the whole world's problem. let's wake up and smell the state-culture apparatus! kristoph - ---------- >From: "r\)\(0\)\(m" >To: >Subject: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy >Date: Fri, Oct 12, 2001, 09.27 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:40:34 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wir-so and slow it grows (cdmute107) Also well worth timely listening is Malka's Hide (CDSWm10 or on Water communication sampler / Swim DWm20). Very inspiring in these times! On the other hand, one person's paranoia is another's heightened awareness ... and then there's heightened paranoia, which should be addressed elsewhere (in restraints!). Those in the heightened awireness state may reflect "the fear grows" (H-A-L-O Immanent CD WDM10061) also for it's timeliness. FWIW, a few other artists songs that come to mind may include: Talking Heads - don't worry about the government Adrian Belew - this is what i believe in Suicide - super subway comedian & hot ticket Robin Trower - victims of the fury Oingo Boingo - little guns Diodes - shape of things to come Adverts - safety in numbers Cure - world war & killing an arab Shreikback - lined up APB - shoot you down Flipper - sex bomb ('cause ya never know!?!) No Trend - mass sterilization caused by venereal disease (also ya never know!?!) Dead Kennedys - holiday in cambodia Stranglers - tank, threatened, in the shadows, & enough time (black & white lp) The Call - violent times Kraftwork - radioactivity (ultimate doom tune) John Lennon - i don't want to be a soldier / give peace a chance (Amen!) Just a couple of bells worth ringing IMHO (the best counter culture view of so called US capitalist pigs I've heard is: Cool It Reba - 'money fall out the sky' 1982 EP on Hannibal # HNEP 3302. A well warped american dream; a must listen for any gamblers, lotto players, and Elvis dementos > yes, it ends in his rip and the joke is on wanna-bees; very 'Police' era sound influence, ska, skittle, reggae or however you might consider some of the Police work). May the God of us all (not simply any choice voice) unify our diversity to make eternal advances here and now ... for what can you do after your dead for your brothers, sisters, or yourself (unless your a penis-brained martyr, promised 72 virgins in 'afterlife', or am I missing something sex drive essence ... should I enshrine my penis on a diety level and pray to it?). Work is a secret of life, even defines life. Like it or not, there's plenty to be delegated or yet invented. Fortunate love their work and usually it -shows-. Maybe instead of soldiers & missiles, we might send jobs / work to them (pride & satisfaction verses building sandcastles in the sky); well anyway, maybe send in the other meaning of 'headhunters' in due process. JMHO / my 2" pulpit skew-view, voyteck PS: R/X- Ultravox - rock wrok ... clears one's head! Revitalize! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:06:05 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: [ot] mercy >let's wake up and smell the state-culture apparatus! > Please take this discussion off list. This topic has no place on a Wire mailing list. This is best discussed privately between interested parties. Thank you. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 22:59:40 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: taking OT discussions off list In a message dated 10/12/01 10:07:03 PM, paulp@wrq.com writes: >>let's wake up and smell the state-culture apparatus! >> > >Please take this discussion off list. This topic has no place on a >Wire mailing list. This is best discussed privately between interested >parties. i'll second that! >Thank you. and thank you, paul, for putting it plain and simple. i was getting close to having an online outburst, and i'm glad i read your post first. >Cheers, >Paul i'll second that too :o) - -paul c.d. (another the paul) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #309 *******************************