From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #290 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, September 24 2001 Volume 04 : Number 290 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Hitch Bowies Guide to David Hiker ["Garry Phillipson" ] RE: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] Hitch Hikers Guide to Organic Farming [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q [Bart ] [idealcopy] OGWT [P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:45:20 +0100 From: "Garry Phillipson" Subject: [idealcopy] Hitch Bowies Guide to David Hiker Graeme Rowland wrote.... "... (EG Lewis) does quite good impressions of others voices in interview too, including Joseph Beuys...." That reminds me. On 'Immanent', by HALO, Lewis does what sounds to me like a David Bowie impression for a verse or two. It's on one of the bonus remixes with the WMO version - 'Eyes Fly (Singfred)' - if you've heard it you'll know what I mean. What's going on there then? Thanks btw to people on the list who recommended 2nd hand netstores where I could try to get the HALO item, I eventually found it at secondspin.com. It's that rare thing - a rarity that you spend ages trying to find which ends up not being a big disappointment! GarryP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:04:21 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome > Anyone who likes Wenders should watch his earlier films, like "State of > Things" or "American Friend". Much better than the post-modern > intellectualised kitch of Wings of Desire and anything else he made since. > They don't include any Wire songs or any other songs - just plain old > fashioned soundtrack music, but they're much more enjoyable. > > giluz well, i will agree & not agree !! i have watch almost all of Wenders movies with few exceptions like Falsche Bewegung and (und ) Der Scharlachrote Buchstabe. also was read many things from Peter Handke after his writings Wenders made movies.. they was all good, but cannot agree that Der Himmel Uber Berlin (i will not accept Wings like official title, that's commercial one..) is kitsch is like to missed the point. it is interested how they wrote scenery for Himmel but i said i agree & not agree.. i can understand that you dislike that one, in fact that is point, if you like you like & vice versa. for example i am not very impressed with End Of Violence, Buena Vista.. if you was see Until The End In The World you have two films in one fast one & slow one. regarding music, i will not called that music old-fashioned.. everyone who will put Tuxedo Moon, Cave from first period earn respect.. i saw Wenders in documentary of making Million Dollar Hotel, he became interested in americanization of his work, so we must expected that he will be different. in fact that came with End Of Violence of which i am not very fond. so.. take care !! mileta > > > >Maybe you should ask Wim Wenders about all that !! > > >That remind me to ask, why he never choose some Wire related > > >things in some of his movies ... > > > > i've always wondered this too. i think wire sounds would fit > > nicely in until > > the end of the world or wings of desire. maybe we should all > > write to mister > > wenders? recommend a few songs for him to hear (if he hasn't already). > > > > -paul c.d. (beginning to feel up to writing about music) > > > > today i listened to ultramarine-united kingdoms. aside from > > plucking a few > > melodies on my guitar, this is the first cd i've put on since the 11th. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 16:03:10 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Eardrum on Posteverything Has anyone heard the Eardrum 'Deadbeat' 12" on Leaf? Its very good indeed, especially the A side. If you like drumming check it out. Lou Ciccotelli of Eardrum also plays in Laika who did one of the best Wire covers on 'Whore'. Buzz Buzz Buzz! Graeme np Swim Team 2 ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:33:30 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OGWT Quality thread. I nipped over the road for a couple of jars with my rock chick sister (her of Bulldog Bash infamy) and her punk rock boyfriend. To say my sister's defence of Freebird as a rock classic didn't stand up to close scrutiny would be something of an understatement. Ive never seen the PiL footage but the Magazine stuff made it onto the rather short best of Virgin vid released about 10 years ago didn't it? Isn't it about time Virgin released a good PiL vid i.e. not Live In Tokyo? I hope that you all stayed up after the OGWT to watch the best and most underrated sit com since Whatever Happened to the Likely Lads. Not that it's underrated in the States where it was the most popular. I'm talking about Seinfeld of course. Cheers John 'And you want to be my latex salesman...' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:37:15 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome > regarding music, i will not called that music old-fashioned.. > everyone who will put Tuxedo Moon, Cave from first period earn > respect.. Actually, I was ironically referring to his old films, which didn't have any "songs" but just soundtrack written specifically to them. I was just trying to say that a good taste in music and the use of such as Nick Cave and Minimal Compact doesn't necessarilly guarantee quality (don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to undermine Wenders' soundtrack composer, Jurgen Knieper - I even have some of them in my collection). As to Wings of Desire (I do prefer the German name as well, but I think most people won't know what the fuck we're referring to if we were gonna use it), I personally can't stand its didactic attitude towards the loneliness and pain, and its cliched metaphors of angels, circus, flying, etc. Mind you, I also categorise Mike Leigh's post-Naked films (including) as over-didactic, and most intelligent people usually disagree with me, so don't feel bad if you do too - it all is a matter of taste after all. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:51:02 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Pink Military/Industry Last thing - and only thing - I've got by Pink Industry is a 12" called 'Don't Let Go' on Cathexis Records. Prod by Ian Broudie no less. Released in 1988. Can't remember if there was an album that followed it up. 'Don't Let Go' is a very sweet sugary Cocteau-Twinsesque track which, in an ideal world, would have been a top ten hit. It was distributed by Fast Forward/Cartel so it was damned before its birth really. Cheers John ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:11:41 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Whistle Test Here's the full track list for the Old Grey DVD. I shall have to buy it, solely to get the PiL track..... Mark TRACK LIST Disc 1 Alice Cooper "Under My Wheels" Elton John "Tiny Dancer" Curtis Mayfield "We Gotta Have Peace" Randy Newman "Political Science" Kris Kristofferson & Rita Coolidge "Help me make it through the Night" Bill Withers "Ainbt No Sunshine" Focus "Sylvia/Hocus Pocus" Rory Gallagher "Hands Off" John Martyn "May You Never" The Wailers "Stir It Up" Roxy Music "Do The Strand" The Edgar Winter Group "Frankenstein" New York Dolls "Jet Boy" Tim Buckley "Dolphins" Captain Beefheart "Upon the My O My" Little Feat "Rock bnb Roll Doctor" Dr Feelgood "Roxette" John Lennon "Stand By Me" The Sensational Alex Harvey Band "Give My Compliments to the Chef" Lynyrd Skynyrd "Freebird" Emmylou Harris "Amarillo" Bonnie Raitt "Too Long at the Fair" Tom Waits "Tom Traubertbs Blues" Otway & Barrett "Really Free" Interviews Elton John and Bernie Taupin with Richard Williams Mick Jagger with Richard Williams Keith Richards with Bob Harris Robert Plant with Bob Harris John Lennon with Bob Harris Audio Commentary by Mike Appleton Artistsb Gallery Presentersb Choice Disc 2 Talking Heads "Psycho Killer" XTC "Statue of Liberty" Blondie "(Ibm Always Touched By Your) Presence Dear" Val Doonican & Charlie McCoy "Stone Fox Chase" Meatloaf "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers "American Girl" The Police "Canbt Stand Losing You" Bruce Springsteen "Rosalita" Iggy Pop "Ibm Bored" Tubeway Army "Are bFriendsb Electric?" The Specials "Message to You Rudi" The Damned "Smash It Up/I Just Canbt Be Happy Today" The Ramones "Rock bnb Roll High School" PIL "Careering" The Teardrop Explodes "Reward" U2 "I Will Follow" Nine Below Zero "Stone Fox Chase" Japan "Ghosts" Robert Wyatt "Shipbuilding" REM "Moon River"/ "Pretty Persuasion" Simply Red "Holding Back The Years" Interviews Bruce Springsteen with Bob Harris OGWT Museum Artistsb Gallery Presentersb Choice ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:20:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Pink Military/Industry John, I'd guess that was the last thing they did. There was a compilation of stuff released about then...I think the last album proper was about 1986. There are three, but I own none of them and I'd have to look up the titles. I did see Pink Industry once, at ULU (supported, bizarrely, by Felt...who I'd gone to see and who should have headlined judging by the number of people who left after their set). I'd hoped for something like the Pink Military album, but from what little I remember it was pants synth pop. I don't think I saw the gig out. Their lame performance also accounts for non-purchase of any of their records! Mark << Last thing - and only thing - I've got by Pink Industry is a 12" called 'Don't Let Go' on Cathexis Records. Prod by Ian Broudie no less. Released in 1988. Can't remember if there was an album that followed it up. 'Don't Let Go' is a very sweet sugary Cocteau-Twinsesque track which, in an ideal world, would have been a top ten hit. It was distributed by Fast Forward/Cartel so it was damned before its birth really. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:05:08 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Whistle Test > Focus "Sylvia/Hocus Pocus" i liked Focus when i was little boy !! > Tim Buckley "Dolphins" Brendan Perry cover " Dolphins " and " Song To The Siren " on gigs. Also some few more for forthcoming tribute album. cheers mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 18:51:26 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome > > regarding music, i will not called that music old-fashioned.. > > everyone who will put Tuxedo Moon, Cave from first period earn > > respect.. > > Actually, I was ironically referring to his old films, which didn't have any > "songs" but just soundtrack written specifically to them. I was just trying > to say that a good taste in music and the use of such as Nick Cave and > Minimal Compact doesn't necessarilly guarantee quality (don't get me wrong - > I'm not trying to undermine Wenders' soundtrack composer, Jurgen Knieper - I > even have some of them in my collection). I like Knieper also.. when i heard Wings Of Desire ( sic !! ) soundtrack i listen first half rather than second one.. Faraway So Close is different story..i agree that choice can be better, but i refuse that as a sequel !? > > As to Wings of Desire (I do prefer the German name as well, but I think most > people won't know what the fuck we're referring to if we were gonna use it), > I personally can't stand its didactic attitude towards the loneliness and > pain, and its cliched metaphors of angels, circus, flying, etc. Mind you, I > also categorise Mike Leigh's post-Naked films (including) as over-didactic, > and most intelligent people usually disagree with me, so don't feel bad if > you do too - it all is a matter of taste after all. No, dear friends, i respect anyone opinion , so do yours.. that is beaty in art, everyone is free to see/hear/feel what he/she/they want and get in certain point. Fatct and point is that Peter Handke wrote scenary day after day ,a nd if i am right even Wenders didn' tknow what will be when it will be over.. near real plot that is film about Berlin also, so metaphors are propriate in any case, if not for everyone i think for Wenders what is essential for me. Problem with some of next Wenders movies was when he try to put metaphors for everyone . no offense at all, in fact i like this kind of discussion.. that tells me that one from opposite side is heavily involved with it, and i respect that.. and as usually..about tastes ....!!?? all the best !! mileta > > cheers, > giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:21:19 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Pink Military/Industry I've got the "Don't Let Go" 12" Cathexis CRL 16 also. An awesome song. Jayne's rep would be made on it alone. Also have a Pink Industry album "Who Told You You Were Naked?" Zulu 4 (I guess that means it precedes "Don't Let Go" Zulu 1 and 2 were also Pink Industry releases - the Forty-Five ep and Low Technology album - and Zulu 3 was an Ambrose Reynolds release (bass player of P. Industry, also credited with production) Tracks on Who Told You: Side One: Walk Away Not Moving Urban Jazz Fear of Failure Anyone's Fashion Situation Side Two: Two Cultures Extreme The Raft This Is The Place The Only One Time for Change And I also have - Pink Industry (N/T) Cathexis CRL 18 dated 1988 Tracks 1 - 9 culled from the Albums "Low Technology", "Who Told You You Were Naked", "New Begginings" - now deleted 10 previously unavailable, 11 remix, 12/13 Alternative versions Side One: Enjoy the Pain Send Them Away New Aims This Is The End Not Moving This Is The Place Side Two: Pain of Pride State of Grace Bound by Silence Cruel Garden What I Wouldn't Give Don't Let Go Ticket to Heaven The Jayne Casey revival starts here!! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:19:56 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OGWT What a waste of airtime. Given they only devoted 2 hrs 40 minutes to 30 years of programming, it's a shame they wasted more than an hour on three unadulterated pieces of shite: billyfuckingjoelinconcert, Meat Loaf (which was about 15 minutes of cringeworthy old toss) and sodding Freebird, which is my least favourite piece of recorded music ever, bar none. ////// boring bob harris was almost getting some kitsch cred , but i think he blew it completely with that bizarrely punk-free selection. clearly still holds a grudge from when sid attacked him all those years ago...... > > So no PiL doing Careering and Poptones (far and away the best thing they > ever had on the show...). No Jam doing Billy Hunt. No Television, Magazine, > 3rd album Buzzcocks. //////2nd album buzzcocks ; 16 again / nothing left. c'mon mark , we expect better from the living archive > Positive bits were Ziggy-era Bowie doing 5 years, Tim Buckley, REM circa > 1984, Patti Smith, Talking Heads 'Psychokiller', Beefheart, Curtis > Mayfield. Since the Old Grey missed Punk completely, we were treated to the > Police. ////BBH probably rates the police as his fave punk band. for the record here would be my OGWT 30 minute selection ; beefheart patti smith ; horses psychokiller buzzcocks ; 16 again siouxsie ; mittageisen x ray spex ; art-i-ficial iggy ; i'm bored television ; foxhole magazine ; give me everything would that be ok? The programme seemed designed to justify how forward-looking the producers were > by getting artists that went on to be successful early in thier careers. > > I guess they all want us to buy the DVD. Bet PiL aren't on that either. /////well i havn't got a DVD but , out of interest , how much are they asking for this artefact? wire link ; you know they showed colin's B video on OGWT at the time. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:46:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OGWT Paul, >> ////// boring bob harris was almost getting some kitsch cred , but i think he blew it completely with that bizarrely punk-free selection. clearly still holds a grudge from when sid attacked him all those years ago......<< Sid got a result though...boring Bob quit the show soon after, leading to a mild upturn in its fortunes. >>//////2nd album buzzcocks ; 16 again / nothing left. c'mon mark , we expect better from the living archive<< Just testing.... :-) ////BBH probably rates the police as his fave punk band. for the record here would be my OGWT 30 minute selection ; beefheart patti smith ; horses psychokiller buzzcocks ; 16 again siouxsie ; mittageisen x ray spex ; art-i-ficial iggy ; i'm bored television ; foxhole magazine ; give me everything would that be ok?<< Apart from the PiL stuff instead of X-ray Spex, it'd be fine... >> /////well i havn't got a DVD but , out of interest , how much are they asking for this artefact?<< #24.99 >> wire link ; you know they showed colin's B video on OGWT at the time. p >> Indeed they did. We used to have a scratty copy of it back then in Blackpool, recorded on a VCR format video (the original single-spool one, the video equivalent of 8-track.) I wonder why EMI never managed to wangle Wire on to the Old Grey? Given they were on Harvest, and touted as "the new Pink Floyd" in old fart circles, you'd have thought they might have got on around Chairs Missing/154 time. Funny how German TV shows like Beat Club and its descendent Musik Laden, or RockPalast were so far ahead of Autie Beeb.... we had whispering Bob. The Germans had Alan Bangs... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 15:45:24 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OGWT ////BBH probably rates the police as his fave punk band. for the record here would be my OGWT 30 minute selection ; beefheart patti smith ; horses psychokiller buzzcocks ; 16 again siouxsie ; mittageisen x ray spex ; art-i-ficial iggy ; i'm bored television ; foxhole magazine ; give me everything would that be ok?<< Apart from the PiL stuff instead of X-ray Spex, it'd be fine... //////i did mean to put careering in but typed it out wrong. as you said , maybe the best ever performance ; levine with his floppy blonde perm playing guitar & keyboards simultaneously. but i'd put the spex clip on with no doubt at all ; brilliant song by brilliant act. > > > I wonder why EMI never managed to wangle Wire on to the Old Grey? Given > they were on Harvest, and touted as "the new Pink Floyd" in old fart > circles, you'd have thought they might have got on around Chairs > Missing/154 time. > //// good point. it was basically an "album" show for big label acts , hence no punks until 78 when the lp's started. but they had some real crap like bethnal , radio stars , the fixx where i guess big label pluggers pulled some strings. wire would've fitted in perfectly really. and of course , wire never made videos then so that avenue was closed too. > Funny how German TV shows like Beat Club and its descendent Musik Laden, or > RockPalast were so far ahead of Autie Beeb.... we had whispering Bob. The > Germans had Alan Bangs... ///// surely you're not dissing rock goes to college or sight & sound in concert? p > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 02:36:23 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Pink Military Mileta wrote: >what happened with Jayne Casey out of Pink Military >and Big In Japan. I saw here on TV a while ago, and she was wearing a very smart suit, looking very neat and working for the Merseyside Arts Council. _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 03:19:21 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Hitch Hikers Guide to Organic Farming Graeme wrote: >Tim said>>>>Dunno about Robert Gotobed, but Organic farming is >pretty posh. > >No it isn't. As Robert says in Kevin's book, it's the >base. Organic food is often more expensive than food >full of allergenic additives & smothered in toxic >pesticides but *Snip* Sigh. That wasn't meant to be taken quite so literally Graeme! >Tim Said: >Would poverty make our art any greater or would it >just give us 'the > >hunger' to get it heard by more people? > >Maybe it'd just give you the hunger to eat your >sampler. This isn't real poverty. Real poverty is not >being able to feed your family because the IMF-World >Bank forces your country to import subsidised foods >from much richer countries *snip* Does anyone remember 'The Modern Parents' cartoon from Viz comic? Isn't that just the kind of thing Malcolm & Cressida used to say? You've taken bits of my post completely out of context in order to sermonise, Bono-like, about global starvation and organic spuds. Thats all very worthy of you, but if you read my post properly you'd notice it was written in a frivolous and comic tone. It obviously didn't make you laugh...but surely you can see I wasn't being entirely serious? Right, I'm off to buy a Big Mac for a homeless person. _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 23:15:08 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q >Afghan Whigs - Gentleman ??? Made absolutely no impression on me. Must give it another spin. So we're talking 1986 to 2001? Let's see: 1 Cure - Disintegration 2 Pere Ubu - Worlds In Collision (and almost any other one!) 3 Metallica - Master of Puppets ("...and justice for all" comes close second) 4 Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation (and almost any other one!) 5 Dead Kennedys - Bedtime For Democracy 6 Wire - IBTABA 7 Peter Murphy - Deep 8 Temple of The Dog - Self-titled 9 Pixies - Surfer Rosa/Come on Pilgrim (and almost any other one!) 10 Butthole Surfers - Independent Worm Saloon (and almost any other one!) 11 Primus - Sailing The Seas of Cheese (and almost any other one!) 12 Levellers - Levellers 13 Meat Puppets - Too High To Die 14 Nirvana - Nevermind 16 Cure - Wish 15 Wir - The First Letter 17 Rancid - Let's Go 18 Faith No More - The Real Thing 19 Nirvana - Unplugged 20 Pearl Jam - Ten Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:07:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] this weekend i listened to: Cedric Brooks - At Studio One (compilation tape) Cedric Brooks - United Africa The Abyssinians - Satta Dub Various Artists - Produced & Directed by The Upsetter T.Rex - T.Rex Tyrannosaurus Rex - The Definitve (compilation) Captain Beefheart - Grow Fins (disc one) Carlos Santana/Bill Laswell - Divine Light Roland Kirk - I Talk With The Spirits ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 09:49:07 +0200 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q 15 years eh? I just handed in my 15 alltime fav's, but 5 out of 15 would probably be: Doolittle Green Never Mind Dirty Alien Lanes Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 08:49:02 +0100 From: P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk Subject: [idealcopy] OGWT Not sure what is on the DVD of the OQWT, but there's definitely all the stuff from the programmes (1 to 4) that were shown last week, plus a load of other stuff (Ramones and XTC included) - unfortunately I've only seen the 2 DVD collection in Tesco so far, and it's in one of those sealed plastic holders, so you can't get "into" the cover to see exactly what is on it! At just of #20 for a double DVD though, it might be worth a look. I have a "Rock Family Trees" on video, concentrating on the Liverpool bands of the early eighties - I think they interview Jayne Casey, but I don't think she records nowadays, even though she is possibly still working in the music industry. I'll have to watch it again sometime! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #290 *******************************