From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #289 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, September 23 2001 Volume 04 : Number 289 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Pink Military ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] [idealcopy] Hitch Hikers Guide to Organic Farming [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Military ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Military [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] OGWT [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] FW: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome ["giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Pink Military MarkBursa !! you are living archive.. what happened with Jayne Casey out of Pink Military and Big In Japan. just saw Holly Johnson on one old Jools Holland .. he was in Big In Japan with Bill Drummond, Budgie & Ian Broudie.. i like very much Pink Military.. Did you see her still humming in my head !! mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:04:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Hitch Hikers Guide to Organic Farming Craig said >>>>If that's cheating then I'd plump for the first set of Hitch-hikers's Guide, as I still think it's funny and I'd need cheering up if 99+% of my CDs went walkies. It's being repeated on Radio 4 Wednesday 6.30pm. "Life? Don't talk to me about life. Here I am, brain the size of a planet..." Still funny after so many listens. Tim said >>>>Bruce Gilbert is a bit posh really isn't he. A friend of mine calls him 'The Poor mans Brian Eno'. Cheeky but funny. Also very wrong. Does that make Lewis an inferior Brian Ferry copy? Are Wire just the Roxy Music who aren't a pile of shite? Eno certainly outdid any member of Wire when it came to 'tonsorial crime'. >>>>EG Lewis? He's a very well spoken chap isn't he! He does quite good impressions of others voices in interview too, including Joseph Beuys. >>>>Colin Newman is a cheeky 'cockerneee' geezer though isnt he Actually he lived in Wiltshire for the first seven years of his life, then moved to Newbury (Berkshire) and then went to college in Watford. Not really a cockney. I suspect his roots are about as 'posh' or unposh as the rest of Wire, but correct me if I'm wrong! >>>>Dunno about Robert Gotobed, but Organic farming is pretty posh. No it isn't. As Robert says in Kevin's book, it's the base. Organic food is often more expensive than food full of allergenic additives & smothered in toxic pesticides but has been getting cheaper as more people realise its better. More & more supermarket chains are stocking organic food too, and not just for the 'posh'! >>>>we are lucky get the odd cider crazed techno-punk asking what sort of sampler we use. > >Would poverty make our art any greater or would it just give us 'the >hunger' to get it heard by more people? Maybe it'd just give you the hunger to eat your sampler. This isn't real poverty. Real poverty is not being able to feed your family because the IMF-World Bank forces your country to import subsidised foods from much richer countries, so that the only thing that you can grow that will enable you to survive is cocaine, which has a consantly high value in those same richer countries due to being illegal. Whereupon a foreign superpower funds the chemical desruction of your fields as part of their spurious 'war on drugs' even though corporations based originally in that foreign land are quite happy to aggressively market legal drugs to the people in the country in which you live and these legal drugs account for far more deaths in your country than the cocaine you were forced to grow does in their country. Being on the dole in the UK doesn't really compare! Charles reported >>>>Stockhausen later moved to huge music theater and other projects, some involving military equipment, that have been less popular. He used helicopters for 'Helikopter Streich Quartet'. Does anyone know of any other military equipment used in Stockhausen's works? How did they gauge the poularity of these later works? >>>>HAMBURG, Germany (AP) German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen apologized for calling last week's attacks on the United States a "work of art" What was the context in which he said that? It's very sad that they're banning art because of the artist's opinions, however insensitive they may be. Dan passed this on >>>>And what about the new Primal Scream album, which was to include a song titled "Bomb The Pentagon"? Have they changed the title to 'Bomb the Square'? I thought that lot had reinvented themselves as hardnosed revolutionaries (at least for a couple of albums) who walked it like they talked it and really meant it maaan! They've always struck me as a very dishonest band. But what about the new release from Einsturzende Neubauten (Collapsing New Buildings) 'Strategies Against Architecture 3' which is out about now? Should Matador withdraw the new Techno Animal album 'Brotherhood of the Bomb'? Should the band Burning Airlines change their name? Should all copies of the album 'Face of Collapse' by the Dazzling Killmen be burnt? Etc etc ad absurdium... Ban nothing! Question Everything! (as it says on the Mute website) Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:03:45 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Military >MarkBursa !! >you are living archive.. >what happened with Jayne Casey out of Pink Military >and Big In Japan. >just saw Holly Johnson on one old Jools Holland .. >he was in Big In Japan with Bill Drummond, Budgie & >Ian Broudie.. >i like very much Pink Military.. >Did you see her still humming in my head !! > >mileta i'm not a living archive (maybe a *dying* one, i sometimes think), but i do know that casey went on to sing lead for the rather less rock-oriented pink industry, who had at least 2 albums in, i guess, the late '80s, which were combined (i *think* they got all the tracks, but i don't have the original releases) on a cd a few years ago on some label out of brazil (wire reference!) or someplace like that. don't know if the band included any other pink military alumni or what she might have done since. i agree about "did you see her" -- great song, as is about half the rest of the "do animals believe in god" lp ("back on the london stage" & "degenerated man" are the 2 that come immediately to mind). add that one to the too-long list of albums that warrant cd reissue (esp. since they also had a handful of non-lp tracks that i'd love to hear ... have only the "blood & lipstick" 12"). dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:07:38 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q well i did enjoy peoples desert island top 5 so here's another idea. must say there were a lot of late 70's/early 80's things in those lists and not too much 90's which made me curious as to what people here like of more recent releases. anyway , bang on time , i see Q magazine this month has the top 50 albums of the last 15 years voted by its readers (that's how long its been going. seems longer). you'll probably be very unsurprised to know they voted for ; 1. ok computer 2. screamadelica 3. nevermind 4. the bends 5. what's the story morning glory (ho ho) so shall we have our own version? here's mine (not in order) ; surfer rosa nevermind the ideal copy pj harvey ; dry a bell is a cup p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:11:53 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Military Mileta, << MarkBursa !! you are living archive..<< I've been callerd many things in my time but that one I like ;-) >>what happened with Jayne Casey out of Pink Military and Big In Japan. just saw Holly Johnson on one old Jools Holland .. he was in Big In Japan with Bill Drummond, Budgie & Ian Broudie.. i like very much Pink Military.. Did you see her still humming in my head !! >> Pink Military mutated into Pink Industry and carried on throughout the 80s, making at least 3 albums, and then slipped away. No idea what happened to them after that. Do Animals Believe in God? is an excellent album and would be high on my list of lost gems that need reissuing on CD.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:13:06 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OGWT well those OGWT highlights shows were pretty predicatble until last nights. they showed 4 nights of compilations then for the final one they showed a "classic" live concert. so with 30 years of footage who do they choose......billy fucking joel. thanks lads. .....and i gues kluba cupol must probably be the only piece of music ever written about kabul or afghanistan. could be getting a lot of airplay shortly....p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:40:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q Paul, << not too much 90's which made me curious as to what people here like of more recent releases. >> Phew, a difficult one.... Again, no particular order: Wire - ABIAC Stereolab - Mars Audiac Quintet Felt - Me and a monkey on the moon Auteurs - After Muder Park Teenage Fanclub - Grand Prix No Nirvana, Fall or Radiohead?? Cerainly there'd be at least one from each in my top 10.... The Living Archive ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 13:43:11 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q last 15 years (which just eliminates psychocandy, of course)? off the top of my head ... mekons -- curse of fall -- light user syndrome chumbawamba -- shhh pulp -- different class pixies -- doolittle dan >Paul, > ><< not too much 90's which made me curious as to what people here like of >more recent releases. >> > >Phew, a difficult one.... > >Again, no particular order: > >Wire - ABIAC >Stereolab - Mars Audiac Quintet >Felt - Me and a monkey on the moon >Auteurs - After Muder Park >Teenage Fanclub - Grand Prix > >No Nirvana, Fall or Radiohead?? Cerainly there'd be at least one from each in >my top 10.... > >The Living Archive ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:00:45 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q > well i did enjoy peoples desert island top 5 so here's another idea. must say > there were a lot of late 70's/early 80's things in those lists and not too > much 90's which made me curious as to what people here like of more recent > releases. > in no particular order Afghan Whigs - Gentleman Anastasia - Before The Rain Lycia - anyone included Bleak/Estraya also.. Lisa Gerrard - Mirror Pool Levitation - Need For Not and of course My Bloody Valentine mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:36:52 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q The last 15 years, hmmmmm ...., 86 onwards. Let's see, off the top o me head.. My Bloody Valentine - Isn't Anything Orb - Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld Mercury Rev - Yourself Esteem Mekons - Rock and Roll Royal Trux - Cats and Dogs _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:45:35 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q Just when I was starting to think I was getting old and wasn't half into "gnu" music as much, this is starting to remind me that the last decade and a half aren't so bad after all ... >From: MarkBursa@aol.com > >Wire - ABIAC great of course, as well as previously mentioned Ideal Copy >Stereolab - Mars Audiac Quintet gave us a lot of great fun in the 90's. I like their early funny ones better. >Felt - Me and a monkey on the moon what a great album!!, I used to play "Down an August Path" constantly and "Mobile Shack" is the greatest song Television never recorded. >Auteurs - After Muder Park I always felt that Luke Haynes and the Auteurs were criminally overlooked in that resurgent Britpop/singersongwriter revival of the 90's (i.e. Blur, Radiohead, Suede) I've got all the Auteurs albums and have been falling on the floor with the latest Black Box Recorder release. >Teenage Fanclub - Grand Prix How about Bandwagonesque? > >No Nirvana, Fall or Radiohead?? Cerainly there'd be at least one from each >in >my top 10.... > >The Living Archive _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:50:08 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q plus there were Loop, Sundial, Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Mazzy Star, Coil, Nurse With Wound and all those nuevo dubmonsters - Scorn, Wobble, Laswell, and a gazillion anthologies, and all those Sun Ra reissues, and everything you ever loved as vinyl, issued on CD, then reissued on CD with bonus tracks, then rereissued on CD remastered..... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:56:39 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q oh gee, I forgot Levitation. I also quite like Bicker's followup Cradle. And there's Catwalk. And Daisy Chainsaw - a brilliant demented album. I'd list Dead Can Dance's Aion or Serpents Egg before the Gerrard solo. What about Belly, Flaming Lips, Breeders, Labradford, Godspeed You Black Emporer, all that IDM music, Aphex Triplets, Smog, Pressurehead, Seefeel/Scala/Dijecta, all those Sub Rosa comps, all those Ambient/Trance comps, all those Miles Davis reissues, Mark Lanegan, Congo Norvell, late great Screaming Trees, Scientists, Bad Seeds? >From: "Mileta Okiljevic" > > well i did enjoy peoples desert island top 5 so here's another idea. >must >say > > there were a lot of late 70's/early 80's things in those lists and not >too > > much 90's which made me curious as to what people here like of more >recent > > releases. > > > >in no particular order > >Afghan Whigs - Gentleman >Anastasia - Before The Rain >Lycia - anyone included Bleak/Estraya also.. >Lisa Gerrard - Mirror Pool >Levitation - Need For Not > >and of course My Bloody Valentine > >mileta _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:05:33 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q And i forgot Belle and Sebastian!!! and the Vasalines and Captain America and Eugenius and the Pastels and Televsion Personalities and Beat Happening and Daniel Johnston, and Tara Key and the Rachels and Come and Julian Cope and Zoviet France and the Nomads and Pere Ubu, Underworld, and Tortoise and the Triffids, Moonshake, Legendary Pink Dots, Laika, Pram, Shelia Chandra ..... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:44:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OGWT Paul, << well those OGWT highlights shows were pretty predicatble until last nights. they showed 4 nights of compilations then for the final one they showed a "classic" live concert. so with 30 years of footage who do they choose......billy fucking joel. thanks lads. >> As BBC2's schedules had been all over the shop this week I've been recording these things 'live'. So I got whispering Bob's smug face introducing billyfuckingjoel live. I'll probably have to go and apologise to my neighbours for waking them up with a stream of heated invective. What a waste of airtime. Given they only devoted 2 hrs 40 minutes to 30 years of programming, it's a shame they wasted more than an hour on three unadulterated pieces of shite: billyfuckingjoelinconcert, Meat Loaf (which was about 15 minutes of cringeworthy old toss) and sodding Freebird, which is my least favourite piece of recorded music ever, bar none. So no PiL doing Careering and Poptones (far and away the best thing they ever had on the show...). No Jam doing Billy Hunt. No Television, Magazine, 3rd album Buzzcocks. Positive bits were Ziggy-era Bowie doing 5 years, Tim Buckley, REM circa 1984, Patti Smith, Talking Heads 'Psychokiller', Beefheart, Curtis Mayfield. Since the Old Grey missed Punk completely, we were treated to the Police. The programme seemed designed to justify how forward-looking the producers were by getting artists that went on to be successful early in thier careers. I guess they all want us to buy the DVD. Bet PiL aren't on that either. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:20:30 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Whistle Test Those of you fretting about missing the Old Grey Whistle Test 'best-ofs', fear not. There is a DVD compilation of all these clips out very soon. I think its a two disc affair. The second disc being devoted entirely to the guitar solo from 'Freebird'. Only joking. Actually the track listing includes New York Dolls, Bob Marley, Curtis Mayfield, Roxy, Tim Buckley, Cap'n Beefheart, XTC, Talking Heads, PiL (doing Careering from Metal Box) , Robert Wyatt, Japan, Ramones, Iggy and a whole host of shaggy-haired seventies fun and spunky new wave jerkiness. Which probably more than makes up for the inclusion of the godawful 'Freebird' and friggin' Meatloaf. If you want to see the full line up it seems you have to go to...er...'whispering' Bob Harris's web site. Click here if you dare..... http://www.bobharris.org/pages/index.htm _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:12:41 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. Laurel wrote: but I CAN be totally objective >when I know nothing about the artist, or don't have any strong feelings about >them either way - and I must admit that I'd be more likely to go the extra >mile to understand, accept, and appreciate art from someone I respect/like as >person - True. I have given the solo work of Wire members a lot more time than I would otherwise. I doubt I would have given much time to Bruce, Lewis or any of the Dome material if it were not made by members of Wire. The context of the band makes the work interesting on a pure curiosity level for me. If I hadn't become a Wire fan, I think the only solo-Wire stuff I would have picked up on would have been Colins. Mainly Immersion, Bastard and a lot of the Swim stuff. (Although I doubt I would have come across any of this music without the Wire connection!) >by the by, probably should have asked this first - I'm curious what >definition of "great" art we're (the list) using - being fashionable, or >anti-fashionable, doesn't make it great, just popular and/or trendy - or is >that our meter? I don't think there is a consensus on this list about that! It certainly isn't based on popularity/trendiness/fashion. All those attributes do to a piece of art is increase the likelihood of you getting to experience it. You are lot more likely to hear The Strokes on the radio/TV than...say..Silo. In that case its perhaps down to the amount of money and influence available to promote the artist, not the quality of the work. For me, a great work of art must move me!. It helps if the work is beautiful, inspiring and innovative. The Strokes are none of these.....like The Velvet Underground doing a GAP advert. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:41:14 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q > And i forgot Belle and Sebastian!!! and the Vasalines and Captain America > and Eugenius and the Pastels and Televsion Personalities and Beat Happening > and Daniel Johnston, and Tara Key and the Rachels and Come and Julian Cope > and Zoviet France and the Nomads and Pere Ubu, Underworld, and Tortoise and > the Triffids, Moonshake, Legendary Pink Dots, Laika, Pram, Shelia Chandra Triffids - Born Sandy Devotional, Nussret Fatah Ali Khan and of course Loop !!! with whole Rugby posh cohorts Skin & Swans, Cranes, Kitchens Of Distinction, Red House Painters, some Soul Whirling Somehere and Black Tape.., Slowdive and of course This Mortal Coil & first Electronic & Cindy Talk i will not go further mileta > ..... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 07:44:51 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q From: stephen graziano : Re: [idealcopy] top 5 ; for Q > oh gee, I forgot Levitation. I also quite like Bicker's followup Cradle. > And there's Catwalk. And Daisy Chainsaw - a brilliant demented album. I'd > list Dead Can Dance's Aion or Serpents Egg before the Gerrard solo. What > about Belly, Flaming Lips, Breeders, Labradford, Godspeed You Black Emporer, > all that IDM music, Aphex Triplets, Smog, Pressurehead, > Seefeel/Scala/Dijecta, all those Sub Rosa comps, all those Ambient/Trance > comps, all those Miles Davis reissues, Mark Lanegan, Congo Norvell, late > great Screaming Trees, Scientists, Bad Seeds? Yeah !! forgot Throwing Muses first, some Tarnation, Bark Psychosis, Brendan Perry, first Underworld, first two of Kristin Hersh, Pale Saints & Slowdive, last ones from Talk Talk, posthumous from great Billy McKenzie , Whole Sole MARK Lanegan catalague, Cave, Neubauten, Barry Adamson..Godspeed... Orbital-Insides mileta ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:05:04 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: FW: [idealcopy] OT: Pere Ubu - -----Original Message----- From: giluz [mailto:giluz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 2:13 AM To: Syarzhuk Kazachenka Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Pere Ubu > >haven't listened to any of thomas' non-ubu stuff, though. > Early albums are conveniently packaged into 5CD/6albums "Monster" box. I > like certain tracks here and there but can't say I have a > favorite album - > though giluz will definitely disagree with me on this one! In any > case, I'd > recommend to start exploring non-ubu Thomas with his > collaboration with two > pale boys, "Erewhon". Absolutely right. My favourite Thomas solo is More Places Forever, probably because it has Henry Cow's Lindsay Cooper and Chris Cutler playing on it, but any other Thomas album released after that is good as well, Erewhon certainly being one of the best. The Monster box is good, but if anyone's interested in Thomas' 80's solo albums, they should try to get them on vinyl. The digital remix is quite distinctively not as good as the originals (and I'm not a purist in these kind of things). cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:05:21 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome - -----Original Message----- From: giluz [mailto:giluz@netvision.net.il] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 2:13 AM To: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wim Wenders Plugs In Egyptian Dome Anyone who likes Wenders should watch his earlier films, like "State of Things" or "American Friend". Much better than the post-modern intellectualised kitch of Wings of Desire and anything else he made since. They don't include any Wire songs or any other songs - just plain old fashioned soundtrack music, but they're much more enjoyable. giluz > >Maybe you should ask Wim Wenders about all that !! > >That remind me to ask, why he never choose some Wire related > >things in some of his movies ... > > i've always wondered this too. i think wire sounds would fit > nicely in until > the end of the world or wings of desire. maybe we should all > write to mister > wenders? recommend a few songs for him to hear (if he hasn't already). > > -paul c.d. (beginning to feel up to writing about music) > > today i listened to ultramarine-united kingdoms. aside from > plucking a few > melodies on my guitar, this is the first cd i've put on since the 11th. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #289 *******************************