From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #286 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, September 20 2001 Volume 04 : Number 286 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re:[ot] ubu reflections ["David McKenzie" ] Re: [idealcopy] Favourites [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re:[ot] ubu reflections [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: 5 [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. [Tim ] [idealcopy] Stock. hausen & FussimMund ["wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:[ot] ubu reflections i think i may have mentioned, i found my copy of the first pere ubu album in the Dance Instruction section of a now defunct record emporium in Grand Rapids, MI (actually in Wyoming, but thats another story) Cloudland was stunning for being so slick, and yet utterly non-commercial face it , no song with David Thomas' vocals will ever be heard in a top-40 context The closest they will ever come to commercial is if some genXer at an advertising agency decides to use them in a VW advert (and that 'wave'' seems to have passed) myself, i find something of value in every ubu recording 'bailing' is a particularly despair-soaked pastry and david thomas live is always a revelation regardless of collaborators [i do miss alan ravenstine - who managed to keep the knob-twiddling thing alive far longers than most exponents] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 05:18:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] [ot] Favourites > "Which FIVE albums would you keep - if you had to > get rid of ALL the rest". Hmm... well, this list would change every month (or day) as far as I'm concerned, but at the moment: Scala: 'Compass Heart' (maybe a CDR version with 'Slide' tacked onto the end. :) Locust: 'Morning Light' Various: 'Swim Team 2' (the Toucaen track is bloody addictive!) Banco de Gaia: 'Last train to Lhasa' Various: A CDR that I'd make up myself with 80 mins of my faves. If that's cheating then I'd plump for the first set of Hitch-hikers's Guide, as I still think it's funny and I'd need cheering up if 99+% of my CDs went walkies. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 08:43:20 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Favourites > Actually, given the varied music collections and > tastes on this group. I'd like to see a list of the > top 5 albums/groups each member would like to turn the > rest of us ICers onto. > ////boy these questions are so tough. i4ll try ; 5 cds for a desert island ; 154 unknown pleasures nirvana unplugged revolver secondhqnd dqylight 5 obscure clqssics sudden sway ; spacemate dancing did ; and did those feet the times ; e for edward click click ; rorshach testing prefects ; peel sessions/live cd mind you , youll struggle to get qll those :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 09:49:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[ot] ubu reflections David, << [i do miss alan ravenstine - who managed to keep the knob-twiddling thing alive far longers than most exponents] >> Ubu sans Ravenstine is a bit like Wire without Gilbert. (yes, I know he's not on all the early stuff, but you see my point....) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 12:00:36 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: 5 >From: P.Wilson@bury.gov.uk >Subject: [idealcopy] Favourites > >OK, OK, OK. May I make a suggestion? Instead of people sending in these long >lists of their fave albums, perhaps it would be better to limit the number - >some people seem to be listing their entire record collections! I agree. How about >"Which FIVE albums would you keep - if you had to get rid of ALL the rest". >And stick to the five albums! That way, we might find something to chat >about - there are just too many at the moment. 1. The Essential Fripp and Eno (full No Pussyfooying cd w/ extra tracks) 2. The Velvet Underground: White Light/White Heat 3. Wire: 154 4. PIL: Metal Box 5. King Crimson: Larks' Toungues in Aspic This is a "rock" top 5, by the way. Michael Flaherty 6. Sonic Youth: Daydream Nation. Forgive me, Paul! I just had to! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 01:39:52 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. John R. wrote: >Spiritualized and the Velvet Underground and/or >Stooges comparable? Heresy. I've never encountered such loathing for Spiritualized as there is on this list! Is it a Punk thing? (Most people I've met either like em, or don't really care one way or the other! Anyway you lot..Listen to 'Pure Phase' through headphones before you make your mind up.) I never said they were better than the Velvets, I said they sounded like ELO trying to do the Velvets which I happen to think is a good idea! Picture Jeff Lynne having a go at 'Waiting for the Man'! > I've heard this album as >my partner got a prerelease copy and to me it sounds >what it is - a load of rich knobs from Rugby trying to >do the Stones/Velvets. Well I know when Jason was in Spacemen 3 it was reported that Sonic Boom was the rich one who lived in the big posh house and Jason was his snotty nosed mate from the rough estate. But nowadays, the band is Jason Pierce, John Coxon (1 half of Spring Heel Jack who are geniuses IMHO), Ray Dickatey who used to be Moonshake, and Thighpaulsandra (who is Julian Copes pianist and to be fair to John, has a stupid enough name to suggest he is a posh twat from Rugby) (btw anyone notice that Sonic Boom wrote his own Obit' for Delia Derbyshire to The Wire cos he didn't like the one they ran the month before? bless! ) Round these >parts Spiritualized are known as 'Tarquin and the Posh >Boys'. LOL! Reminds me of the Shoegazing era when there were a lot of posh people pretending to be the Velvet Underground on drugs....NME coined nicknames for these floppy fringed public-school types with Fender Jaguars...remember "Tristram from Chapterhouse" and "Felcity-Jane from Lush" and my favourite "Prince Namor from Slowdive". But does it matter if bands are made up of posh rich kids? Maybe. I guess with Pink Floyd or Genesis, that well-educated/upper middle class angst is splattered all over their records like diamond-encrusted vomit. But it isn't always the case. Take Wire for example! Bruce Gilbert is a bit posh really isn't he. A friend of mine calls him 'The Poor mans Brian Eno'. Cheeky but funny. He's not exactly Shaun Ryder is he? EG Lewis? He's a very well spoken chap isn't he! Bit eccentric? Not exactly Shaun Ryder is he? Dunno about Robert Gotobed, but Organic farming is pretty posh. Not exactly Shaun Ryder is he? Colin Newman is a cheeky 'cockerneee' geezer though isnt he....cor blimey guvnor I had that Silo in my studio the other day....right barrel of monkeys they was......but he's not exactly Shaun Ryder is he? But I don't see why bands should be made up of salt-of-the-earth orphans who have lived a life of abject poverty in Hackney. Check out Goldie for a classic example of how, given a wad of record-company cash, a brief fling with Bjork and hard drugs this upbringing can mutate into Roger Waters-style whining pomposity (listen to his 60 minute prog-jungle tossfest 'Mother' which sounded the death-nell for Drum and Bass..or rather don't!....Goldie was last seen playing a dodgy geezer in UK soap opera Eastenders....go figure). The fact is that the vast majority records are made by people who have had a modest upbringing, but perhaps this is because they are not put off by the fact that it is incredibly difficult to make a living out of music unless you are Elton John. I, and I know some fellow IC-ers do 'it' in our spare time like the sad part-timers we are. This means we get to unleash our art on the world and pay the mortgage/feed kids, but instead of a coach full of groupies/as much coke as we can snort/endless platitudes in the music press and our own private jet, we are lucky get the odd cider crazed techno-punk asking what sort of sampler we use. Would poverty make our art any greater or would it just give us 'the hunger' to get it heard by more people? The Kids Are Alright and So are you. http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:13:26 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] Stock. hausen & FussimMund HAMBURG, Germany (AP) German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen apologized for calling last week's attacks on the United States a "work of art" words that prompted the cancelation of four concerts in this northern city. The 73-year-old Stockhausen, one of Germany's best-known postwar composers, had described the attacks as "the greatest work of art one can imagine." Organizers of a music festival in Hamburg promptly canceled four concerts of Stockhausen's music. The composer has since apologized for the comments, which he made Sunday during a press conference, Hamburg's top culture official Christina Weiss said Tuesday. "If anyone feels hurt by what I said at the press conference, I ask their forgiveness, because I have never felt or thought what was read into my words," he said, according to Weiss. However, festival organizers still consider staging Stockhausen's music inappropriate in view of his "unconsidered verbal gaffes," she said. The music festival itself will continue. Stockhausen gained fame through his avant-garde works in the 1960s and 70s. He later moved to huge music theater and other projects, some involving military equipment, that have been less popular. shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:36:35 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] banned primal strokes? interesting ... from another list -- >>And what about the new Primal Scream album, which was to include a song titled "Bomb The Pentagon"? I'm assuming it's safe to say that this song won't make the cut...Seeing the tracklisting of the new Wilco also raised some questions, with songtitles such as "War on War" and - especially - "Ashes of American Flags." > Speaking of which I got word today that not only is > the Strokes' Smell the Glove aussie cover getting > changed, but that the song "New York City Cops" will > no longer appear on future pressings of the album. > Don't know yet how this affects the planned US release > for next week, but I would assume a delay is in order. > And they'll probably bill the associated costs back to the band.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:47:03 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] velvets (was: Rich kids in bands) >John R. wrote: > >>Spiritualized and the Velvet Underground and/or >>Stooges comparable? Heresy. changing the subject while speaking of whom (the velvets), the last couple of days i've started really digging into them (courtesy of the box set) for the first time in ... well, ever, really. i mean, i've given my vinyl copies of the first lp & the another view & vu posthumous collections a decent number of spins over the last 13 or 14 years, but i guess their reputation is so immense that i just accepted them as a natural phenomenon (a la the beatles), rather than a band to really sit down & apply myself to. as i noted off-list last night to ian jackson, though, some chance remark of my girlfriend's (to do with her deep fondness for the cowboy junkies' take on sweet jane) prompted me to decide to cobble together a tape for her of what i call "velvets lite" -- i.e. the smoother-sounding stuff (sunday morning, pale blue eyes, etc) as opposed to the noisy tracks (sister ray, white light/white heat, etc). damn, what an *embarassment* of riches ... it wound up being 1 1/2 tapes, not surprisingly, with the 4th side being devote to solo lou reed (& even then it looks like i'll have to omit the 11-minute street hassle, though at least i taped it for her previously). not for nothing were they the wire of the late '60s ... dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 21:54:09 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] velvets (was: Rich kids in bands) i mean, it's to the point that i've started calling the cat (who'd been wanting a name since she started showing up back in january or so, anyway) sweet jane. makes me wonder if i should change one of the dogs' names to mr suit ... the deaf one wouldn't even notice. dan >changing the subject while speaking of whom (the velvets), the last couple >of days i've started really digging into them (courtesy of the box set) for >the first time in ... well, ever, really. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 23:39:18 -0400 From: "k erickson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. great post Tim! good enough to make me de-lurk just to point out that the tone, intelligence & humour of your response here seem to me to be exemplary for a forum such as this list. btw, i was resistant to Spiritualised for some time but have grown to enjoy Ladies and Gentlemen....i'll admit that there is a fine line sometimes between what i consider drivel and what i consider valuable; i'm not sure it's a quantifiable distinction, but i know it when i hear it, a 'je ne se quoi'. despite my lack of knowledge of anything about Spiritualised at the time, for some reason i had a pre-judgement that they fell on the wrong side of that line...until i listened to them. i don't subscribe to the music press or 'follow' bands on any personal level-- i simply concentrate on the music. what i do get from the press does affect me-- it might change my opinion of some people; but never the music itself. rich kids? poor? who cares....in the end i found music i consider valuable. your playful yet sincere attitude about these issues strikes the right note. - -kristoph. - ---------- >From: Tim >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Cc: johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com >Subject: [idealcopy] (Long) Rich kids in bands. >Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001, 20.39 > >John R. wrote: > >>Spiritualized and the Velvet Underground and/or >>Stooges comparable? Heresy. > >I've never encountered such loathing for Spiritualized as there is on this >list! Is it a Punk thing? >(Most people I've met either like em, or don't really care one way or the >other! Anyway you lot..Listen to 'Pure Phase' through headphones before you >make your mind up.) > >I never said they were better than the Velvets, I said they sounded like >ELO trying to do the Velvets which I happen to think is a good idea! >Picture Jeff Lynne having a go at 'Waiting for the Man'! > >> I've heard this album as >>my partner got a prerelease copy and to me it sounds >>what it is - a load of rich knobs from Rugby trying to >>do the Stones/Velvets. > >Well I know when Jason was in Spacemen 3 it was reported that Sonic Boom >was the rich one who lived in the big posh house and Jason was his snotty >nosed mate from the rough estate. > >But nowadays, the band is Jason Pierce, John Coxon (1 half of Spring Heel >Jack who are geniuses IMHO), Ray Dickatey who used to be Moonshake, and >Thighpaulsandra (who is Julian Copes pianist and to be fair to John, has a >stupid enough name to suggest he is a posh twat from Rugby) >(btw anyone notice that Sonic Boom wrote his own Obit' for Delia Derbyshire >to The Wire cos he didn't like the one they ran the month before? bless! ) > > > Round these >>parts Spiritualized are known as 'Tarquin and the Posh >>Boys'. > >LOL! Reminds me of the Shoegazing era when there were a lot of posh people >pretending to be the Velvet Underground on drugs....NME coined nicknames >for these floppy fringed public-school types with Fender Jaguars...remember >"Tristram from Chapterhouse" and "Felcity-Jane from Lush" and my favourite >"Prince Namor from Slowdive". > >But does it matter if bands are made up of posh rich kids? >Maybe. I guess with Pink Floyd or Genesis, that well-educated/upper middle >class angst is splattered all over their records like diamond-encrusted >vomit. But it isn't always the case. > >Take Wire for example! > >Bruce Gilbert is a bit posh really isn't he. A friend of mine calls him >'The Poor mans Brian Eno'. Cheeky but funny. He's not exactly Shaun Ryder >is he? > >EG Lewis? He's a very well spoken chap isn't he! Bit eccentric? Not exactly >Shaun Ryder is he? > >Dunno about Robert Gotobed, but Organic farming is pretty posh. Not exactly >Shaun Ryder is he? > >Colin Newman is a cheeky 'cockerneee' geezer though isnt he....cor blimey >guvnor I had that Silo in my studio the other day....right barrel of >monkeys they was......but he's not exactly Shaun Ryder is he? > >But I don't see why bands should be made up of salt-of-the-earth orphans >who have lived a life of abject poverty in Hackney. >Check out Goldie for a classic example of how, given a wad of >record-company cash, a brief fling with Bjork and hard drugs this >upbringing can mutate into Roger Waters-style whining pomposity (listen to >his 60 minute prog-jungle tossfest 'Mother' which sounded the death-nell >for Drum and Bass..or rather don't!....Goldie was last seen playing a dodgy >geezer in UK soap opera Eastenders....go figure). > >The fact is that the vast majority records are made by people who have had >a modest upbringing, but perhaps this is because they are not put off by >the fact that it is incredibly difficult to make a living out of music >unless you are Elton John. > >I, and I know some fellow IC-ers do 'it' in our spare time like the sad >part-timers we are. This means we get to unleash our art on the world and >pay the mortgage/feed kids, but instead of a coach full of groupies/as much >coke as we can snort/endless platitudes in the music press and our own >private jet, we are lucky get the odd cider crazed techno-punk asking what >sort of sampler we use. > >Would poverty make our art any greater or would it just give us 'the >hunger' to get it heard by more people? ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #286 *******************************