From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #273 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, September 7 2001 Volume 04 : Number 273 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] It's Been A While [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] It's Been A While [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [idealcopy] Re: Wir [Howard Spencer ] [idealcopy] Re: Wir [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: Dylan [Rain19c@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir ["Jerry Butson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation ["Jerry Butson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] now playing.... [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Last Night I Mostly Listened To ["Uri Baran" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan [Rain19c@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: soularis ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] [idealcopy] Sacred Cow Dylan gets Foot & Mouth [Tim ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:59:04 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? > BTW - who wouldn't walk across the street to see Dylan > play for free! I would certainly not, even if they payed me to. Actually, when I was 18 and just got back from my first vacation from training in the army (an obligatory initiation into the day by day Israeli practice of oppressing Palestinians and making a hard time for anyone else in the area - end of apologetic leftie note), Dylan was playing in the park just next to my house. I guess most of you haven't been to the army, but you probably know that you don't get enough sleep. I was never into Dylan, but my indifference turned very quickly into hatred, as Mr. Zimmerman's far from pleasant voice kept me from sleeping the moment I got into bed. Later it was the fireworks. Besides, who would like to see this old geezer now? No point in retrospective gigs for me - I wouldn't have enjoyed the Wire gig if it didn't present something new (it did for me at least). As for what Stephen wrote about Dylan, I never claimed that dylan was not important or influential. I think that any important act in the history of popular music is much more important as far as influence and innovations go than in the actual quality of the music that came out of it. The Velvets and the Pistols immediately come to mind, while even the Beatles are viewed by me today as more important than good (that's why I can understand all the people that don't like them. I used to be a great Beatles fan, I still am, basically, but first of all, I got fed up from extensive listening to the same albums over and over again {you have to realise that in Israel the Beatles have an almost biblical attitude, and they;re certainly more popular then Jesus here:)}, and secondly, that whole pop/rock songwriting approach that they contributed so much to has exhausted its possibilities. I really think that today people {especially musicians} should listen to less Beatles, or as Mark E Smith referred to in 1993 as "the apalling influence the Beatles have had on our popular culture over the last 25 years"). So I'm not trying to dis Dylan's influence or importance - I just don;t like his voice and his music. I try to listen to any music that is not contemporary in the cultural context of when it was made, but I still have to like it, and this doesn't come from any intellectual understanding. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 06:04:42 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Been A While > Did anyone get to "The Longest Day" festival? Or was that "The Throwback" > festival? Wonderstuff, Chameleons, Spear Of Destiny, New Model Army, New > F.A.D.S. > /////that sounds like a very long day indeed. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:13:27 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Been A While I missed it. He said that most bands just played a 45 minutes set apart from Spear of Destiny who "got the crowd going". Not really heard anything by them. C PaulRabjohn@aol.com on 06/09/2001 11:04:42 To: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS@MEDAS cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's Been A While > Did anyone get to "The Longest Day" festival? Or was that "The Throwback" > festival? Wonderstuff, Chameleons, Spear Of Destiny, New Model Army, New > F.A.D.S. > /////that sounds like a very long day indeed. p The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 12:21:05 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wir Mark/list I remember now that you said you were at that gig - and about Bruce's seated, be-specced vocal. Don't remember that, which is a great pity. What I do remember is: Colin's ponytail; Graham's two mics (one vocodered) for footsi-footsi; Bruce's rather nice-looking linen suit, and a kid of about 18 who yelled repeatedly for Kidney Bingos. And an overall sense of a loud and uncompromising noise. I went on my own becaue no one else would come, and enjoyed it all the more for not having to think about anyone else's reaction. I thought they sounded pretty amazing and didn't pick up on any lack of involvement on anyone's part, but maybe I was enjoying it too much to notice. Is it fair to assume that Colin was hacked off at losing `centre stage'? It may have been a tactical withdrawal - it could be argued that Graham's voice was generally better suited to carrying the main lines of most of what they were doing at that time. BTW, does anyone else see a moderate resemblance between EGL and Liverpool and England midfielder JAmie Carragher? And will anyone stick up for Steve Macmanaman if I say that last night he played with all the intelligence and effectiveness of a sack of shite? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:20:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wir Howard, << Is it fair to assume that Colin was hacked off at losing `centre stage'? It may have been a tactical withdrawal - it could be argued that Graham's voice was generally better suited to carrying the main lines of most of what they were doing at that time.<< I think it may have been a means of emphasising that Wir was a different group to Wire (Dome+Colin rather than Wire-Robert?). >>BTW, does anyone else see a moderate resemblance between EGL and Liverpool and England midfielder JAmie Carragher?<< Or Bruce circa 1979 and Alen Boksic? >> And will anyone stick up for Steve Macmanaman if I say that last night he played with all the intelligence and effectiveness of a sack of shite? >> I thought Sven was going to substitute him when he brought Carragher on. A dreadful display. Let's hope the courts hurry up and find Lee Bowyer innocent...he'd make that already impressive midfield tick.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 10:25:13 EDT From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan >It is thanks to Bob Dylan that rock (even when he was >acoustic) began to be taken seriously as an art form. I think the Beatles contributed to making rock an "art-form" just as much (maybe even more) as Dylan >Dylan was regarded akin to a Biblical era prophet in >those days, and the world hung breathlessly awaiting >his next word. Right, people hung on his words. A lot of "average" ( i use the term loosely ) music listeners aren't interested in clever chord changes, great solos or complex arrangements, they latch on to the lyrics, which they can identify to. such recent bands who write universal or populist style lyrics (oasis, beautiful south) go on to sell millions of records(well, at least in england for b.south) For me, however, music takes preferences over words..give me a great melody, a clever arrangement, or a hypnotizing atmosphere anyday over a spoken word record or acoustic dylan ramblings. >Try listening to Dylan's material with the sense that >it is the first time anything like this is being heard >(as it was when it was created). Try imagining that >you are back in 1963, 1964, 1965, 66 whatever when >Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, Ballad of a Thin Man, >Subterranean Homesick Blues, Highway 61 are hitting >the airwaves for the first time. Try imagining the >culture that those songs were existing in. Try >imagining (or remembering) the sense of solidarity of >youth culture in those days. blah blah blah! try imagining me not caring.. i do try to think in context of then, how it must of been revolutionary and so on, but that was then. I wasn't alive and history hardly ever moves me more then the present does. I give as much respect and interest to Dylan as I give to the inventor of the cotton gin. Try imagining back when *that* happpened, the first time anything like it had been created, and how fast cotton was being made. Try imagining how the culture was. Man, that was something. >That's why you have to like Dylan. Respect to him. But I still don't like him. ~michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:41:07 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation 2 words - brittney spears ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 10:44:30 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: graham haynes ambient trumpeter son of jazz great (there's a cliche) roy haynes dad played w/ john coltrane and a few dozen other legends roy's stuff has left me somewhat non-plussed, but his playing would be a good fit in the aforementioned 'supergroup' might be brilliant, might be dull, but will undoubtably be well played ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:44:50 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation In a message dated 9/6/01 10:42:30 AM Central Daylight Time, dmack2002@yahoo.com writes: << 2 words - brittney spears >> yes...really sad, isn't it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:10:18 +0100 From: "Jerry Butson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir That would have been good then wouldn't it? Having a racist thug running round the pitch... j > I thought Sven was going to substitute him when he brought Carragher on. A > dreadful display. Let's hope the courts hurry up and find Lee Bowyer > innocent...he'd make that already impressive midfield tick.... > > Mark > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:12:03 +0100 From: "Jerry Butson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:voice of a generation > << 2 words - brittney spears >> > > > yes...really sad, isn't it? No, "Baby One More Time" is a cracking tune. Sorry, I'm feeling mysterious today ;>) Or maybe just contrary j - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:11:43 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir >>That would have been good then wouldn't it? Having a racist thug running >>round the pitch... >>j Well said!!! C "Jerry Butson" on 06/09/2001 18:10:18 Please respond to "Jerry Butson" To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir That would have been good then wouldn't it? Having a racist thug running round the pitch... j > I thought Sven was going to substitute him when he brought Carragher on. A > dreadful display. Let's hope the courts hurry up and find Lee Bowyer > innocent...he'd make that already impressive midfield tick.... > > Mark > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:39:49 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir I like Leeds Utd.circa 2-3 years ago..i like the way they play. I still remember match from that time when they lost from Man. Utd 2:3 in first or second day of championship but i was really impressed. I find them very attractive and eyecatching for watch. Things about Lee Bowyer was controversal, did he made that racist thing or didn' t !? Btw, when i get back from my vacation in my home waits me Lycia-Compilation Appearences Vol.2 band send me a week ago.. One of songs is called DOME and i asked them is that something connected with wire related Dome. Tara from band just send me mail that it is just coincidence,even if Wire made great influence ( "huge kick") on them at the beginning of Mike Van Portfleet music career ( alpha & omega of Lycia ). nice to hear that...:) it also offer for me best JD/NO cover i heard " In A Lonely Place ". It is very similar to original version, and In A Lonely..was one of my favourite NO recordings.. i remember when i get from Manchester 7" and played In A Lonely place endless times in a row... mileta > That would have been good then wouldn't it? Having a racist thug running > round the pitch... > j > > > I thought Sven was going to substitute him when he brought Carragher on. A > > dreadful display. Let's hope the courts hurry up and find Lee Bowyer > > innocent...he'd make that already impressive midfield tick.... > > > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:17:15 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir << That would have been good then wouldn't it? Having a racist thug running round the pitch... >> Nice to see the "innocent until proven guilty" line being upheld eh? For the record, the PROSECUTION admitted there was no racial motivation to the attack. It's ill-informed and stupid comments such as these that got the original trial scrapped, at the tax payer's cost. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:23:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir << Things about Lee Bowyer was controversal, did he made that racist thing or didn' t !? >> The trial of Bowyer and Woodgate was abandoned after a stupid British tabloid newspaper printed an interview with the victim's father while the jury were considering their verdict, costing the british tax payer about #6 million and costing the editor his job. The attack - in which Bowyer may or may not have been involved, was NOT racially motivated, by the prosecution's own admission. The trial will supposedly be restaged in October, though quite how a fair retrial can be held given the publicity is anybody's guess. Mark (off to the Leeds United list to talk about Wire!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:31:15 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir In a message dated 9/6/01 1:28:10 PM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << Mark (off to the Leeds United list to talk about Wire!) >> hahahhahaha good one Mark!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:00:08 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] now playing.... Al Jabr - One Million and Three upcoming: Phillip Jeck- Loopholes Decay compilation.... Electronic Eye - Neurometrik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 20:24:09 -0700 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Last Night I Mostly Listened To Edinburgh Dec '00 gig - -----Original Message----- From: RLynn9@aol.com To: crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk ; idealcopy@smoe.org Cc: stevieye@hotmail.com Date: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Last Night I Mostly Listened To >In a message dated 9/1/01 1:02:53 PM Central Daylight Time, >crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > >> Wire - Germ Ship / He Knows (thanks Uri & Paul) >> > >where exactly are these songs from????? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 14:26:05 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] recently i've mostly listened to ... quite a few recent(ish ... within the last 2 years or so) acquisitions that i'm finally getting around to slapping on the old turntable & taping (being unemployed definitely has its advantages) -- homosexuals -- homosexuals' album mothmen -- black dot metal urbain -- les hommes mort sont dangereus (almost like a whole album of french variations on the cabs' nag nag nag ... a very good thing, in my book. i've owned the dr mix lp for some 20 years & now must track down the metal boys stuff as well). los reactors -- dead in the suburbs nips -- tits of soho bureaucrats -- s/t starjets -- s/t benny profane -- trapdoor swing lp & skateboard to oblivion, parasite & devil laughing 12"s (possibly my favorite of the lot so far ... a much livelier version, pretty much, of dave jackson's previous band, the room. really must find their 2nd album & first 12" now.) pale fountains -- pacific street & from across the kitchen table 12" suburban lawns -- s/t & baby ep nerves -- notre demo lp hollywood brats -- s/t belfegore -- s/t bone orchard -- jack modern eon -- fiction tales ssq -- s/t uk decay -- for madmen only lp scars -- author author lp & ep malaria -- emotion box -- secrets out only a few dozen to go, ranging from the red guitars to inner city unit & 39 clocks ... also a handful of actual new releases, a la -- damned -- chronic disorder (surprisingly good, esp. since i haven't really paid attention to them since machine gun etiquette, though the black album has its moments) white stripes -- white blood cells (wonder if i can convince my girlfriend to go with me to see them in memphis on monday, as a week-before-my-birthday gesture) new order -- crystal ep (finally tracked it down last night, as for some reason it hasn't shown up in the larger chains here ... my first impressions are favorable) rex hobart & the misery boys -- the spectacular sadness of (one of the better alternative-country albums i've come across, on the unusually relilable bloodshot label) black rebel motorcycle club -- s/t (the jamc & dandy warhols comparisons are not off-base) dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:43:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 Rain19c@aol.com wrote: > such recent bands who write universal or populist style lyrics (oasis, > beautiful south) go on to sell millions of records(well, at least in > england for b.south) odd you should mention Beautiful South specifically, as during their heyday the whole point was that they wrote "pretty", digestible music with vicious lyrics. this hasn't been the case as much since Brianna left the band, but i'm still not sure they're a good illustration of the point you were trying to make. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:42:47 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Wir Robert, << << Mark (off to the Leeds United list to talk about Wire!) >> hahahhahaha good one Mark!!! >> I'm (almost) not joking!! I did once find myself discussing the Mekons, simultaneously, on this list and....the Leeds United list. Most confusing! Mark The mekons are from Leeds, of course ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:48:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan Aaron, << Beautiful South specifically, as during their heyday the whole point was that they wrote "pretty", digestible music with vicious lyrics. >> That's an interesting concept. Now where have I heard that before? "....you're a waste of sapce....no natural grace...." etc Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 16:56:44 EDT From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Dylan - --------------------------------- odd you should mention Beautiful South specifically, as during their heyday the whole point was that they wrote "pretty", digestible music with vicious lyrics. this hasn't been the case as much since Brianna left the band, but i'm still not sure they're a good llustration of the point you were trying to make. - ------------------------------- i was trying to say how they use everyday subjects that almost all people can relate to and end up selling a lot of records. yes, the lyrics are vicious though ~michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:55:11 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: soularis you know - the more i think about this from a strictly jazz improv slant the better it sounds think of laswell in his miles davis remixer / massacre context harold budd in the joseph holbrook context (or was that gavin bryars - those obscure things all run together for me like so many watercolours) in any event think of budd in the pharough sanders homage context jaki is pretty much a jazz drummer in any context and graham haynes has genetic jazz cred might just be a solid good thing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 00:28:45 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Sacred Cow Dylan gets Foot & Mouth Stephen Graziano wrote: > We live in such a "post Bob Dylan >world" I don't! I wish I did! Manchester is full of Dylan bores...and most of them have record contracts. >that it is very easy to forget and fail to appreciate what a >revolutionary force, what a seismic event in terms of not only rock culture >but the whole popular culture of times Dylan was. Its not that easy to forget with Dylan fans, music journalists, and mountains of literature in our bookshops all ramming home the gospel according to Saint Bob. > It was for no little >reason that Dylan was branded "the voice of his generation". Can anyone >suggestion any artist, musical or otherwise of the past 20 years (this >generation) that could even pretend to lay claim to such a title? No. But Why should any one person should be elevated to such a ludicrous position? Especially a rock star. He may have been the voice of a few stoned hippies in cosmopolitan areas of the US and Europe but not the whole damn world. I'm glad I live in an ever-changing, multi-cultural world where there is no chance of a very male, very white, very serious rocker coming along to be 'My Voice' . I'll use my own voice thankyou very much....and there won't be a f**king acoustic guitar in sight. >It is thanks to Bob Dylan that rock (even when he was acoustic) began to be >taken seriously as an art form. Presumably because of the emphasis on lyrics and the minimal, un-intrusive musical content. They took him seriously as a poet, not a musical force. Maybe 'they' hoped the youth would tire of this rock music 'fad' and graduate to literature & poetry. > It is thanks to Dylan that intellegence, >poetry, social commentary, extended song forms all entereded the cannon of >pop music. Where do you get this revisionist (not to say Dylanist) view of history from? Are you trying to say that none of these elements were present (pre-Dylan) in Blues? In Jazz? Or did 'Pop' music begin with Cliff Richard and Skiffle groups...until Dylan and his humourless, beard-stroking ilk came along to spoil the party? Dylan was >regarded akin to a Biblical era prophet in those days, and the world hung >breathlessly awaiting his next word. Well I wasn't there but my Dad says this wasn't quite the case in Wilmslow. He preferred The Small Faces, The Who, and The Stones. >You notice that I haven't even mentioned his music, > yet, and already Dylan >would stand as one of the most important rock artists ever. Was he 'important' for purely music reasons? Well he wrote a few nice tunes (mostly done better by superior artists like The Byrds) but otherwise the music is a just all content over style. The primacy of lyrics, lyrics and more interminable lyrics at the expense of anything remotely interesting, musically or sonically. > I am not shocked, not suprised when someone says they can't get >past Dylan's wheezey voice, or they can't stand the sound of his simple >banging of an acoutistic guitar as he streams out a barrage of words. > But I am disappointed. Why be disappointed with other peoples music tastes?! > That is just surface, and Dylan is deep. That statement reminds me of a line from Spinal Tap...."Heavy Metal is Deep...you can get stuff out of it.." Stuart Maconie summed this aspect of Dylan up brilliantly in a recent article in Q (July 2001) "..If Dylan had written Witchita Lineman it would have 27 verses, a great deal of conceited sneering and a section where, apropos of nothing, the Lineman meets a countess called Evadne with a hawk upon her arm, who takes him to a lighthouse where the tinsel angels swarm." > Try listening to >Dylan's material with the sense that it is the first time anything like this >is being heard (as it was when it was created). No Thanks. I hope that if I had lived in those days I'd have been more excited about the next Beach Boys track, or the next killer pop-orgasm from Motown, or the next proto-punk missive from The Who, or the next teenage symphony from Phil Spector. >That's why you have to like Dylan. - Steve. G No I don't! I'm not denying the place of Dylan in rock history, the seismic impact he must have had at the time, the fact that he turned Ringo onto Pot etc etc etc. That does not mean I have to *like* his dreary music!!! I'm sure some of my favourite artists were influenced by Dylan (the Velvet Underground spring to mind)...but I guess they waded through his (sepia-tinted) back pages so I don't have to! Sorry folks, I'm a child of the 80s, and to me Dylan is just a dusty echo from someone elses past. For me, his music lacks the timeless quality of The Beatles, or the Stones, or Brian Wilson. Theres so much music I haven't heard yet, past and present. There is so much wonderful sound to experience, but because its less idolised and sanctified than Dylan, I am less likely to stumble across it. Boo! People say, there'll never be another Dylan, or another Beatles. Is that 'cos they made the greatest music we could ever hope to hear, or because legions of obsessives elevated them to ludicrous heights that no one else can hope to scale? If we rate rock stars on the number of theses, endless biog's and analyses written about them, then yeah...Dylan is the greatest. (Where does that leave Wire?) Thanks all the same but I DON'T have to like Dylan! I'll stick to the new Mercury Rev, the staggeringly beautiful new Spiritualized LP, The Other People Place CD, Fennesz's Hotel Parallel, the new Rythm & Sound single and whatever is out next week...next month and next year. In wiv the NEW Daddio! - -------------------------------------------------------------- www.kidsindestructible.com Dylan? Wouldn't have him in the house! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:17:29 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sacred Cow Dylan gets Foot & Mouth my god what a bunch of stupid assholes the level of churlish commentary in this group is no better than what one finds in the average chat room if you haven't got the brains to understand cultural and historical context then you have undermined your own position from which to make relevant commentary you are an historical eyeblink away from being as irrelevant as the thing which upon which you comment anecdotal evidence is fine: I like Dylan; I hate Dylan or whatever but to presume that you exist outside of the historical context, be it the cotton gin or the influence of the Beatles or whatever is absurd the German word is zeitgeist look it up after all it is only the computer and this computer forum that stops you from sounding like the village idiot oh wait too late ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 00:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i listened to: Augustus Pablo - King Tubby Meets The Rockers Uptown Augustus Pablo - El Rockers and started to listen to: Various Artists - Runeology (free with The Wire), but it bored me sh**tless and so I binned it. ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #273 *******************************