From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #272 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, September 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 272 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AW: [idealcopy] ot - solaris [Woerner Frank ] [idealcopy] OT - Solaris [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized ["Jerry Butson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? ["ste] Re: [idealcopy] ot - solaris ["Syarzhuk Kazachenka" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? [Eard] [idealcopy] last night i didn't listening to anything.... [kevin eden Subject: AW: [idealcopy] ot - solaris >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Alistair Tear [mailto:alistairtear@streetmanagement.org.uk] >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. September 2001 10:48 >An: Wire (E-mail) >Betreff: [idealcopy] ot - solaris > > >Saw this upcoming gig at the >new Ocean venue in Hackney... > >Solaris featuring Jah Wobble >plus Jaki Leibezeit, Graham Haynes, Bill Laswell & Harold Budd > >Oct. 21 > >Any listers know anything about Solaris? >The last 2 names I know but who are the others? Hi, Jaki Liebezeit was a member of Can ( drummer ). Jah Wobble was with PIL ( bassist ) and did lots of very different albums over the years. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:52:35 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Solaris >>>Jaki Liebezeit was a member of Can ( drummer ). Jah Wobble was with PIL ( bassist ) and did lots of very different albums over the years. Thanks Frank, I know who Wobble is but it's interesting that there's the guy from Can, plus Laswell, Budd (anyone know who Haynes?) I guess this 'Solaris' is an avant 'supergroup...' (also a film by Tarkovsky) cheers A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 06:45:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? John, << My partner is a big, big Dylan fan (tho not to the extent of bootlegs etc). I'm more inclined to agree with whoever said he sounded like a 6 min rant on one chord. I just don't see the attraction but then she seems to have the same pov on the Fall. << I guess that any artist with a long and vaguely credible career is inevitably going to have periods where they turn out dross (eg Neil Young, whose output between 1980 and 1989 is almost entirely unlistenable). Likewise Bob Dylan. >> It has to be said that if plugging your guitar into an electric amp is the height of your career, well... >> A little unfair! The highlights were the albums that followed the act of plugging in - Highway 61 revisited and Blonde on Blonde are really good records. After that it gets patchy. I know some people love Blood on the tracks but it's not as good as those mid-60s albums. The old acoustic folky stuff leaves me cold, though the Byrds are proof that the material was strong. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 13:42:27 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized Frank Wrote: >Hi, > >thanx for the info. >On ebay I saw "pure phase" and "laser guided" rather cheap. >Any thoughts on those ...??? Both are very good. Laser guided melodies is probably the most laid back one....kind of ambient rock & roll. 'Pure Phase' is pretty wild. Jason recorded separate mixes for the left and right channel so you get two mixes running simultaneously to make the 'stereo' image. Jumps from white-noise workouts to 10 minute ambient drones and all points in between. The best album is 'Live at the Royal Albert Hall'. Good mix of songs from the first three LPs. Its actually only semi-live, having been heavily remixed in the studio, much like Wire's own IBTABA. _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:13:16 +0100 From: "Jerry Butson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized I'm afraid I just don't get Spiritualized. That new single brings back unpleasant memories of the Ramones doing "Baby I Love You", in fact the whole Phil Spector thing. j p.s. I don't like the Beatles either but I respect them maan... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized > Frank Wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >thanx for the info. > >On ebay I saw "pure phase" and "laser guided" rather cheap. > >Any thoughts on those ...??? > > Both are very good. Laser guided melodies is probably the most laid back > one....kind of ambient rock & roll. > 'Pure Phase' is pretty wild. Jason recorded separate mixes for the left and > right channel so you get two mixes running simultaneously to make the > 'stereo' image. Jumps from white-noise workouts to 10 minute ambient drones > and all points in between. > > The best album is 'Live at the Royal Albert Hall'. Good mix of songs from > the first three LPs. Its actually only semi-live, having been heavily > remixed in the studio, much like Wire's own IBTABA. > > > > > _________________________ > The Kids Are Alright > http://www.kidsindestructible.com > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:01:18 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: [idealcopy] finds picked up a Stephen Mallinder 12" yesterday, Temperature Drop b/w Cool Down (1981 fetish records) mint condition for cdn$1.00 (about 40p I think)! I haven't heard these tracks before, and as I don't yet have a working turntable, can anyone fill me in? I am quite excited! Eric in Toronto. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 14:15:39 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized I got the Ladies & Gentleman CD and I completely missed the point. I understand the big sound thing and musically they do sound very competant. Still don't get it though. C "Jerry Butson" on 05/09/2001 14:13:16 Please respond to "Jerry Butson" To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized I'm afraid I just don't get Spiritualized. That new single brings back unpleasant memories of the Ramones doing "Baby I Love You", in fact the whole Phil Spector thing. j p.s. I don't like the Beatles either but I respect them maan... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:42 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized > Frank Wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >thanx for the info. > >On ebay I saw "pure phase" and "laser guided" rather cheap. > >Any thoughts on those ...??? > > Both are very good. Laser guided melodies is probably the most laid back > one....kind of ambient rock & roll. > 'Pure Phase' is pretty wild. Jason recorded separate mixes for the left and > right channel so you get two mixes running simultaneously to make the > 'stereo' image. Jumps from white-noise workouts to 10 minute ambient drones > and all points in between. > > The best album is 'Live at the Royal Albert Hall'. Good mix of songs from > the first three LPs. Its actually only semi-live, having been heavily > remixed in the studio, much like Wire's own IBTABA. > > > > > _________________________ > The Kids Are Alright > http://www.kidsindestructible.com > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:35:44 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? Regards Dylan - like the Beatles, and the Stones, the music of Bob Dylan can't properly be appreciated without listening to it in the context of the society in which he was creating it. We live in such a "post Bob Dylan world" that it is very easy to forget and fail to appreciate what a revolutionary force, what a seismic event in terms of not only rock culture but the whole popular culture of times Dylan was. It was for no little reason that Dylan was branded "the voice of his generation". Can anyone suggestion any artist, musical or otherwise of the past 20 years (this generation) that could even pretend to lay claim to such a title? It is thanks to Bob Dylan that rock (even when he was acoustic) began to be taken seriously as an art form. It is thanks to Dylan that intellegence, poetry, social commentary, extended song forms all entereded the cannon of pop music. It is thanks to Dylan that American bohemian/beat culture was introduced to the children of the 60's, so that role models for that decade - - Ginsburg, Kerouac, Guthrie could seep into the imagination of American youth. It is thanks to Dylan that drug culture permeated middleclass youth conciousness - notably his "pot phase" - and his introducing the Beatles to marijuana (a scene that I still think must rank as one of the epochal moments in modern history) - who then in turn moved quicky to acid - and we all know how that turned out - and also notably during his "speed phase" - Bringin It All Back Home - Highway 61 - Blonde on Blonde. Dylan was regarded akin to a Biblical era prophet in those days, and the world hung breathlessly awaiting his next word. You notice that I haven't even mentioned his music, yet, and already Dylan would stand as one of the most important rock artists ever. As we've all learned (through this list and elsewhere) the appreciation of music is very subjective. I am not shocked, not suprised when someone says they can't get past Dylan's wheezey voice, or they can't stand the sound of his simple banging of an acoutistic guitar as he streams out a barrage of words. But I am disappointed. That is just surface, and Dylan is deep. Try listening to Dylan's material with the sense that it is the first time anything like this is being heard (as it was when it was created). Try imagining that you are back in 1963, 1964, 1965, 66 whatever when Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, Ballad of a Thin Man, Subterranean Homesick Blues, Highway 61 are hitting the airwaves for the first time. Try imagining the culture that those songs were existing in. Try imagining (or remembering) the sense of solidarity of youth culture in those days. That we were gonna change the world - not by burning it down - ala Johnny Rotten and friends - but by taking it over and fixing it - and these were the manefestos. As revolutionary as Luther's theses tacked up on the church door, or Thomas Paine's pamphlets circulating in the colonies at war with the motherland. That's why you have to like Dylan. - Steve. G _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 09:37:14 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot - solaris >Solaris featuring Jah Wobble plus Jaki Leibezeit, Graham Haynes, Bill >Laswell & Harold Budd >Any listers know anything about Solaris? >The last 2 names I know but who are the others Well, Jah Wobble is ex-PIL(circa Public Image/Second Album), who is well known as a big dub experimenter, and Jaki Liebezeit is a founding member of Can. Don't know who Graham Haynes is though Syarzhuk


Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 10:09:46 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] finds In a message dated 9/5/01 8:16:29 AM Central Daylight Time, e.klaver@sympatico.ca writes: << picked up a Stephen Mallinder 12" yesterday, Temperature Drop b/w Cool Down (1981 fetish records) mint condition for cdn$1.00 (about 40p I think)! I haven't heard these tracks before, and as I don't yet have a working turntable, can anyone fill me in? I am quite excited! Eric in Toronto. >>>>>>>>>>>>> They are pretty cool tracks....i think both of them are included on the full length Cd... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 08:22:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Spiritualized I think it's a case of doing the same drugs as they're on. Bands I never understood why anyone liked them Part Umpteen: Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, etc. The sound of Upper Middle Class Rugby on smack. Must be great if you can afford it... John Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 10:38:26 -0500 From: "Joshua Zarbo" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? Right on, man! Very well said. > >Regards Dylan - like the Beatles, and the Stones, the music of Bob Dylan >can't properly be appreciated without listening to it in the context of the >society in which he was creating it. We live in such a "post Bob Dylan >world" that it is very easy to forget and fail to appreciate what a >revolutionary force, what a seismic event in terms of not only rock culture >but the whole popular culture of times Dylan was. It was for no little >reason that Dylan was branded "the voice of his generation". Can anyone >suggestion any artist, musical or otherwise of the past 20 years (this >generation) that could even pretend to lay claim to such a title? >It is thanks to Bob Dylan that rock (even when he was acoustic) began to be >taken seriously as an art form. It is thanks to Dylan that intellegence, >poetry, social commentary, extended song forms all entereded the cannon of >pop music. It is thanks to Dylan that American bohemian/beat culture was >introduced to the children of the 60's, so that role models for that decade >- Ginsburg, Kerouac, Guthrie could seep into the imagination of American >youth. It is thanks to Dylan that drug culture permeated middleclass youth >conciousness - notably his "pot phase" - and his introducing the Beatles to >marijuana (a scene that I still think must rank as one of the epochal >moments in modern history) - who then in turn moved quicky to acid - and we >all know how that turned out - and also notably during his "speed phase" - >Bringin It All Back Home - Highway 61 - Blonde on Blonde. Dylan was >regarded akin to a Biblical era prophet in those days, and the world hung >breathlessly awaiting his next word. >You notice that I haven't even mentioned his music, yet, and already Dylan >would stand as one of the most important rock artists ever. As we've all >learned (through this list and elsewhere) the appreciation of music is very >subjective. I am not shocked, not suprised when someone says they can't >get >past Dylan's wheezey voice, or they can't stand the sound of his simple >banging of an acoutistic guitar as he streams out a barrage of words. But >I >am disappointed. That is just surface, and Dylan is deep. Try listening >to >Dylan's material with the sense that it is the first time anything like >this >is being heard (as it was when it was created). Try imagining that you are >back in 1963, 1964, 1965, 66 whatever when Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall, Ballad >of a Thin Man, Subterranean Homesick Blues, Highway 61 are hitting the >airwaves for the first time. Try imagining the culture that those songs >were existing in. Try imagining (or remembering) the sense of solidarity >of >youth culture in those days. That we were gonna change the world - not by >burning it down - ala Johnny Rotten and friends - but by taking it over and >fixing it - and these were the manefestos. As revolutionary as Luther's >theses tacked up on the church door, or Thomas Paine's pamphlets >circulating >in the colonies at war with the motherland. >That's why you have to like Dylan. - Steve. G > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 12:31:26 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] (OT)mojo this months mojo has a new order/JD cover story. nice photos but i guess the same interview every other mag/paper will be running. but well worth a look is the photo of ian's daughter and her mother (i guess she's in her early 20's now). no doubt who her father is! bit spooky actually....go have a look. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:06:22 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] It's Been A While Hi all, I've been unsub'd for a while. Did anyone get to "The Longest Day" festival? Or was that "The Throwback" festival? Wonderstuff, Chameleons, Spear Of Destiny, New Model Army, New F.A.D.S. I'm off to New Order 10.10.01. Anyone else? Also Depeche Mode 18.10.01. Sorry Graeme. Any Wire news for crying out loud??!?!? C The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:35:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] (OT)mojo << this months mojo has a new order/JD cover story. nice photos but i guess the same interview every other mag/paper will be running. but well worth a look is the photo of ian's daughter and her mother (i guess she's in her early 20's now). no doubt who her father is! bit spooky actually....go have a look. >> Did you decipher the secret message on the front cover ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:19:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? Dan, << like any double i can think of (any exceptions occur to anyone? possibly metal box, which was released in that format over here ... certainly not london bloody calling) is packed with filler. >> Husker Du's Warehouse. Can't imagine that without any of its 20 tracks. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:35:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: vocal interplay Howard, << > Someone asked about Wir live shows. I was at the Kilburn Mean fiddler > gig (not the one on the video) and it was awesome, IMHO, and VERY LOUD. > Formed the subject of my very first posting to the list - at the time no > one else confessed to being there. Well I was there too. It was an odd gig - Wire, but not Wire. The dynamic in the band had changed, ao it was definitely the "Graham Lewis trio".....EGL stage-centre, playing guitar not bass (via effects) and doing most of the lead vocals. I remember the funny little twist-dance they did through Naked, whooping... (the opener) with buckets hanging from the ceiling. Also Bruce's lead vocal on Ticking Mouth, which involved him sitting down at the keyboard towards the back of the stage, and putting on his glasses. I got the impression Colin in particular was going through the motions. In fact the event was probably closer to a Dome gig than a Wire gig.... Certainly enjoyable, but something was definitely missing.... >>//////heard a tape and it sounds like a great gig. somehow i never even found out about that one (or the blur support slot on the video) so i never saw a "first letter" live set. curses , i guess there's nil chance of those tracks getting played again. p >> Likewise I completely missed the Manscape tour....must not have been paying attention to the very small ads in NME that week :-( Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 17:35:52 -0700 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] Re: ... but do I have to like (Double Albums?) I would say that same thing for the first two Tindersticks albums (double in vinyl form). Every song is instrumental to the album's completeness... even the interludes in the first album are of quality. - -fernando At 20:19 -0400 09.05.2001, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >Dan, > ><< like any double i can think of (any exceptions occur to anyone? possibly >metal box, which was released in that format over here ... certainly not >london bloody calling) is packed with filler. >> > >Husker Du's Warehouse. Can't imagine that without any of its 20 tracks. > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 20:17:39 -0500 From: "natalie" Subject: [idealcopy] tabs Im looking for bass tabs of wire. anyone know where any can be found? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 22:04:58 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: I like the Beatles but do I have to like Dylan? thank you, steve, for such a well thought out and beautifully written explanation of how we can all learn to appreciate great music. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 00:23:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i didn't listening to anything.... but i did watch England beat Albania! ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! 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