From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #264 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, August 29 2001 Volume 04 : Number 264 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 [Bart ] AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 [Woerner Frank ] AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 [Woerner Frank ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 [Bart ] Re: [idealcopy] associates, leisure process, nightblooms, dole ["Jerry Bu] [idealcopy] Glass/Shankar [Michael Flaherty ] Re: [idealcopy] PostEverything [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] most overrated band? ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] [ot] A very brief history of Big Star [Joseph S ] Re: [idealcopy] PostEverything [Bart ] [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to: [kevin eden Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 I think my top 15 [sorry, 10 just wasn't enough] would contain: Beatles - White Album Wire - 154 Pixies - Doolittle Clash - Sandinista Jesus & Mary Chain - Psycho Candy The Breeders - Last Splash Guided by Voices - Alien Lanes REM - Green Sonic Youth - Dirty Velvet Underground - 1st Pavement - Wowee Zowee The Popgroup - Y [ http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~edge/pop_group ] David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust Eno/Byrne - My life in the Bush of Ghosts Massive Attack - Mezzanine There's neither classical stuff here nor world-music/cinema-composers otherwise I would at least have to use a top 50! Stephen, you're right about Bob Pollard's list being a bit 60-70-ish... Isn't it great though to hear he uses these influences in a really innovative way and not become a sixties throwback himself! Mark, the "weeeeird" Bob-stuff: Alice Cooper, Cheap Trick [I only know 2 hitsingles] and Genesis. I just didn't expect them at all! You're right about Bee Thousand... together with the next 2 albums it contains the essential GBV! Bart [38] www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl bart@adrem.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:03:55 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Bart [mailto:bart@adrem.nl] >Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. August 2001 10:48 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 > > >I think my top 15 [sorry, 10 just wasn't enough] would contain: > >The Popgroup - Y [ http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~edge/pop_group ] Yes !!! The Popgroup's "Y" I bought when it was released. It was a milestone at its time ... I was overwhelmed from the power of this music. It has to be played VERY loud. It was impossible for them to continue their work on such a high-class level ... so there later albums ( and spin-offs like Rip,Rig and Panic) were still worth listening but not as brilliant as "Y". Funniest song title ever: "Kneedeep in shit" from R,R&P. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:36:44 +0200 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 > Yes !!! ============== Hi Frank, Yes? Hmmm, not to keen on Yes... sorry! ;-) Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl bart@adrem.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:55:20 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Bart [mailto:bart@adrem.nl] >Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. August 2001 11:37 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 > > >> Yes !!! >============== > >Hi Frank, > >Yes? Hmmm, not to keen on Yes... sorry! ;-) Bart, "Yes!!" was meant as an applause to you choosing the Popgroup. I didn't want to remind you of Yes (Anderson, Howe, Wakeman, etc. ). But I'm sure you knew that ... ;-)) regards, FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:56:04 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: wire dreams dreamt last night that Colin released an album called `The Garden' which I found impenetrable but which got rave reviews in MOJO et al. dream then moved on to posh spice, who belied her bimbonic image by turning detective and solving a case involving a mummified corpse (I think this had to do with clips of scooby-doo on the box last night). V much like the sound of the new swim~ sampler. Not too impressed with New Order's album on a couple of plays, though `Crystal' is pretty good. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:14:04 +0200 From: Bart Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 > Bart, > > "Yes!!" was meant as an applause to you choosing the Popgroup. > I didn't want to remind you of Yes (Anderson, Howe, Wakeman, etc. ). > But I'm sure you knew that ... ;-)) =========================== Frank, That's right, better not to remind me of being 13 and listening to the likes of Yes while reading my heavy Lord-of-the-Rings. Seems like ages ago. [Gad, I'm old!] But yeah, I knew what you meant... ;-) Nice to find there are more "Pop-lovers" around... In real life I don't meet them that often... Btw... Bavaria is a famous beer in the Netherlands! You knew? You live in M|nchen? Cheers, Bart www.bartvandamme.com bartvandamme@home.nl bart@adrem.nl icq: 106821124 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:03:18 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 In a message dated Tue, 28 Aug 2001 5:37:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bart writes: > > Yes !!! > ============== > > Hi Frank, > > Yes? Hmmm, not to keen on Yes... sorry! ;-) > /////yeah , i've had that sititng there for about 15 years and play it from time to time. never can get into it. loved the singles (good & evil / prostitutes) though. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:20 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: wire dreams beats my dream the night before last of finding myself at a lynyrd skynyrd show. (even more oddly, in lieu of what i presume would be the standard grand-finale playing of such hits as sweet home alabama, free bird, what's your name, etc, the lead singer started huckstering health foods instead). & i just woke up from a dream in which i dropped by my favorite local used-music emporium to find that i'd previously dumped, among others, my copy of tv smith's last of the great explorers there ... not likely, though also not exactly the adverts' crossing the red sea. dan >dreamt last night that Colin released an album called `The Garden' which >I found impenetrable but which got rave reviews in MOJO et al. > >dream then moved on to posh spice, who belied her bimbonic image by >turning detective and solving a case involving a mummified corpse (I >think this had to do with clips of scooby-doo on the box last night). > >V much like the sound of the new swim~ sampler. Not too impressed with >New Order's album on a couple of plays, though `Crystal' is pretty good. > >Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:05:55 +0100 From: "Jerry Butson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] associates, leisure process, nightblooms, dole Robert enquired... "Also, i remember some talk about the Leisure Process...I found a single by them as well can anybody tell me more about them? how many albums/singles and what they sounded like as well?....Thanks in advance!" "Leisure Process" had a handfull of singles only, no album, Love Cascade The Sun Turns Black The Fluke A Way You'll Never Be Rachel Dreams Cash Flow The Emigre The Emigre 2 Anxiety The Company Love Cascade (ext. mix) A Way You'll Never Be (ext. mix) Cash Flow (ext. mix) Anxiety (ext. mix) Company B (ext. mix) Love Cascade (dance mix) - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.274 / Virus Database: 144 - Release Date: 23/08/2001 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:23:45 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Glass/Shankar >From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com > Switching back to Phillip Glass for a moment,- I 'm sure it was him on a >British TV documentary last week which was covering the life of Ravi Shankar While Philip Glass was a composer before he met Shankar, you will find no recordings or sheet music from before the meeting--it was that big of a deal to him. Passages was indeed the name of the album they did together ... wrote 3 tracks each. I find it ... listenable. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:54:06 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PostEverything hi bart, my site doesn't get the attention it deserves...from me i mean. but if you're interested in seeing pictures of letterpress artwork by bruce licher (independent project records & press) and photos of recent psychedelic furs concerts, my site is called Trudge (http://members.tripod.com/~Trudge). like i said, it needs a lot of work, but it's there. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:44:24 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] most overrated band? > >10.Beatles - Abby Road > >.. as I already said ... most overrated group of alltime. > >FrankfromBavaria Frank, you ARE kidding right? !!! (and this is not just because i have Liverpool connections...) surely this honour must go to the MC5...or the Grateful Dead... or...Yes...or...but the Beatles, please...!!!!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph S Subject: [idealcopy] [ot] A very brief history of Big Star you jotted to the list: //>6. Big Star - Radio City I don't know neither the group nor the album// Big Star were a low selling yet hugely influential pop band fronted by Alex Chilton (of the Box Tops) in the early 70s. They put out three albums: #1 Record, Radio City, and Sister Lovers. (The third is the most experimental and often noted as being a Chilton solo thing as (I think) one member had died and another kicked out. However Jody Stephens was still around with Alex from the original lineup. It was only re-released with that title several years after the first release as it was thought to be a wee bit offensive in some circles. ) The Replacements, in their song Alex Chilton, sing "I never travel far, without a little Big Star." The Bangles covered September Gurls from Radio City on the same album that had Walk Like An Egyptian. There's a record store in Berkeley, CA called Mod Lang, named for another song on that album. The songs Holocaust and Kanga Roo were covered by This Mortal Coil on the album It'll End In Tears. Judging by your responses to the other bits in Pollard's top ten, you may like the third, but the first two have a Beatles influence that swirled in with a late 60s stax/volt sound (much like the Box Tops tried to emulate). Chilton's lyrics in Big Star are fairly bitter and much more realistic than one generally got from either of those influences. Chilton continued solo (and still occasionally plays). Much of his 70s and 80s output had a punkier/sloppier feel (Bach's Bottom for example), but he returned to those Stax-style horns in the late 80s on High Priest. In 91 or so he and Jody did a one off gig as Big Star with the Posies' rhythm section immortalized on Big Star Live at Columbia and followed it up a year or so later with a tour (which I missed and have kicked myself for ever since). Suggested tracks to find for an intro would be Thirteen, Don't Lie To Me and Watch The Sunrise from #1 Record; You Get What You Deserve and Back of a Car from Radio City; and Femme Fatale, Kizza Me, and Kanga Roo from Sister Lovers. All 3 albums are in print at this time, the first two on a single CD. ~bishop joey - - - - - - - - - To feed men and not to love them is to treat them as if they were barnyard cattle. To love them and not respect them is to treat them as if they were household pets. -Mencius, philosopher (c. 380-289 BCE) _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:03:20 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Robert Pollard's All Time Top 10 - ----- Original Message ----- From: stephen graziano > I'd not be suprised that Glass was on a Ravi special, he studied w/ Pandit > Nam Prath (as well, Terry Riley and Steve Reich (I believe) did Eastern > studies) and has collaborated - Passages(?) with R. Shankar. Steve There's a fairly substantial piece on Pandit Nam Rath in the new, just-out edition of The Wire magazine. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:08:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] A very brief history of Big Star Joseph, << Big Star were a low selling yet hugely influential pop band fronted by Alex Chilton (of the Box Tops) in the early 70s. They put out three albums: #1 Record, Radio City, and Sister Lovers. (The third is the most experimental and often noted as being a Chilton solo thing as (I think) one member had died and another kicked out.<< Not quite. Chris Bell left after the first album (though he's on a couple of tracks o the second. He was killed in 1978 in a car crash. A solo album was posthumously released a few years back, and really stakes his claim to the BS sound... Andy Hummell (bassist) left after the second album. Alex and Jody used session men on the third (which was never completed - several versions have been issued but none are sequenced as intended, according to Alex) >> However Jody Stephens was still around with Alex from the original lineup. It was only re-released with that title several years after the first release as it was thought to be a wee bit offensive in some circles. )<< It was called Sister lovers because Alex and Jody were going out with a pair of sisters at the time! >> In 91 or so he and Jody did a one off gig as Big Star with the Posies' rhythm section<< Not quite. Main Posies Jon Auer and Ken Stringfellow play guitar and bass respectively - as well as singing half the songs! Ken S is also in the touring REM line-up. >>immortalized on Big Star Live at Columbia and followed it up a year or so later with a tour (which I missed and have kicked myself for ever since).<< Well you might get your chance, as the reunion is ongoing. They play a few gigs most years. In fact I saw Big Star about a month ago, at the Mean Fiddler in London. Pretty much the same set as when I saw them in 94, though they actually played a new song, and AC announced they were recording a new album. It'll happen when it happens I guess.... >> Suggested tracks to find for an intro would be Thirteen, Don't Lie To Me and Watch The Sunrise from #1 Record; You Get What You Deserve and Back of a Car from Radio City; and Femme Fatale, Kizza Me, and Kanga Roo from Sister Lovers. All 3 albums are in print at this time, the first two on a single CD. >> Which can be bought for $6.99. Also available are at least three live albums, plus the Chris Bell stuff. BS play Chris Bell's only single (I am the Cosmos) as part of the set. Really terriffic stuff - bittersweet guitar music. Bear in mind theze records date from 1971-73....The first album sounds a little of its time, though the second is timeless and the third is absolutely unique, with an air of falling apart that obviously has influenced Mr Pollard's approach to recording! Cheers, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:11:38 EDT From: WireI2XU@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] leisure process RLynn9@aol.com writes: << Also, i remember some talk about the Leisure Process...I found a single by them as well can antbody tell me more about them? >> leisure process! gary barnacle [ex-visage, level 42] was half of that; he is--or was at least--a rather striking fellow with an apparent predilection for saxophones, gloves +, in the eighties anyway, kim wilde [whom he was dating for years]. the leisure process songs that i like remind me in a very good way of magazine, especially the vocals; i've wondered if perhaps barnacle admired howard devoto as i think the leisure process singles were released just post-magazine-breakup + he's linked closely to devoto's work thru visage [which featured three magazine vets]. has anyone seen the videos? i think there are two. a l l i s o n [who is actually almost done recording a version of 'love cascade' primarily using a a MIDI device which uses a commodore 64 sid chip to create sounds, + usually has to apologize for mentioning LP] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:12:41 EDT From: WireI2XU@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ants PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: << my advice would be to sell all your marco stuff and put it towards the box set >> or, in a frightening parallel universe: sell all yr marco stuff + buy his pants instead. i've noticed more than one auction of his world's end-era vivienne westwood threads on ebay lately, complete with letter of authenticity from marco, which the seller [apparently not marco] offers at the buyer's request. one pair went for $300 or so. a l l i s o n ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:24:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] leisure process Allison, << leisure process! gary barnacle [ex-visage, level 42] was half of that; he is--or was at least--a rather striking fellow with an apparent predilection for saxophones, gloves +, in the eighties anyway, kim wilde [whom he was dating for years]. the leisure process songs that i like remind me in a very good way of magazine, especially the vocals; i've wondered if perhaps barnacle admired howard devoto as i think the leisure process singles were released just post-magazine-breakup + he's linked closely to devoto's work thru visage [which featured three magazine vets]. >> Not sure about Mr Barnacle (who was a member of Ruts DC before Leisure process - for whom he played keyboards and sax) but your Devoto fetishist was his partner in Leisure Process, Ross Middleton. He was the singer of Glaswegian Magazine/Joy Division copyists Positive Noise. Check out their 'Down There' single for a near-perfect Magazine pastiche, or 'The long march' and 'Refugees' from teh Second City Statik compilation for bang-on-the-money Joy Division. Later they became more funky (hey, it was the early '80s) and had a near-hit with 'Charm', which allowed them to add an impersonatin of Talking Heads to their impressive repertoire. Even later Ross Middleton left (there were three Middleton brothers in PN) and the others carried on in an even more jolly vein for a while. They could clean up as a tribute band today... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:24:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ants << or, in a frightening parallel universe: sell all yr marco stuff + buy his pants instead. i've noticed more than one auction of his world's end-era vivienne westwood threads on ebay lately, complete with letter of authenticity from marco, which the seller [apparently not marco] offers at the buyer's request. one pair went for $300 or so. >> Marco certainly wouldn't be able to get into them these days! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 16:16:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph S Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [ot] A very brief history of Big Star greetings Mark/Frank/Copy-heads: Thanks kindly, Mark, for the corrections - did most of that off the top of my head. Didn't realize quite how inaccurate my memory was. Thought I might reply bit by bit, but I am indeed glad there is more Big Star touring/recording to be had. | Really terriffic stuff - bittersweet guitar music. Bear in mind theze records | date from 1971-73....The first album sounds a little of its time, though the | second is timeless and the third is absolutely unique, with an air of falling | apart that obviously has influenced Mr Pollard's approach to recording! | That indeed is the case and a nice summation of the albums. Another one to make note of is the radio show Rykodisc released a couple years ago under the title Big Star Live. It was recorded between one and two and had a quite out of character track called (I think) Motel Room Blues. As a whole Chilton's early songwriting and singing shows a weariness way beyond his years, but that blues really captured it. It was a departure from the pure pop sound he'd displayed on that first album. Seems to me he was about 23 when Radio City was recorded, but had had his first hit at the age of 17 with The Letter. And a bit of on topic - found a copy of He Said Omala which I am digging a lot. Much less electronic sounding than Take Care and more engaging (imvho). ~j _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:28:45 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] ON topic! voices i have been enjoying much of the off-topic stuff as of late, but here's one that's on: today i mostly listened to: wir-first letter i haven't listened to this in a few months, and lately i've been making more of a concious effort to pay attention to vocals (i have a habit of tuning out words when listening to music)...anyway, i'm sure someone on this list could point out who sings what on the album. there are so many vocals, i have a hard time telling who anyone is except the obvious colin and graham ones. i assume some of the other voices belong to colin and graham too, but i'm also wondering if there's anyone else (male) singing. a few to get it started: who's the uncredited female voice? who is claude bessey, besides the voice on naked...? who says "it continues" at the beginning of the song? who sings the words "footsi-footsi"? what are the words blurted out in ticking mouth? who does the first part of a bargain...? i know some of you saw live shows around this time. what were they like? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:59:49 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: top 10 list this is such a difficult thing for me, being the collector/hoarder type person i am. like when people make those desert island lists, i can't help but choose double albums and greatest hits type things, ya know, just to ensure that i get the most i can while i'm stranded on that island...and island that is always assumed to have a stereo and electricity yet remain deserted. anyway, this is a list for right now. my mind can change with the weather. i'm leaving off the kink kronikles and joy division-still, trying to keep to regular releases without bonus tracks or entire bonus lps, and certainly not cd box sets! it's also pretty much a rock list: joy division-unknown pleasures wire-154 the damned-machine gun etiquette new order-power, corruption and lies durutti column-lc pixies-doolittle cocteau twins-victorialand section 25-always now savage republic-tragic figures the beatles-revolver the kinks-arthur - -paul c.d. p.s. my list is like spinal tap's amps...it goes to 11 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:35:45 +0200 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] most overrated band? >>> 10.Beatles - Abby Road >> >> .. as I already said ... most overrated group of alltime. >> >> FrankfromBavaria > > Frank, you ARE kidding right? !!! > (and this is not just because i have Liverpool connections...) > surely this honour must go to the MC5...or the Grateful Dead... > or...Yes...or...but the Beatles, please...!!!!!!! > > ian.s.j. ================ YOU tell 'm Ian! :-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:51:36 +0200 From: Bart Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PostEverything > my site doesn't get the attention it deserves...from me i mean. but if you're > interested in seeing pictures of letterpress artwork by bruce licher > (independent project records & press) and photos of recent psychedelic furs > concerts, my site is called Trudge (http://members.tripod.com/~Trudge). like > i said, it needs a lot of work, but it's there. > > -paul c.d. Nice one Paul, It's quite a portal you've got there... lotsa links! A few graphics here and there wouldn't hurt though... ;-) Did you make the PF-photo's? So they're still alive eh? You big fan? I only got their first album when it came out. Cheers, Bart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 00:32:48 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to: Harold Budd - The Oak of Golden Dreams Paul Schutze - Nine Songs from the Garden of Secret Lies ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #264 *******************************