From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #247 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, August 14 2001 Volume 04 : Number 247 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] The last few days I have mostly listened to: [kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] The last few days I have mostly listened to: All sorts. A big sort of out of stuff no longer necessary for my shelves and my ears. All now gone to, before anyone asks. Specific listening: Jon Hassell  Fascinoma ( again, just love this album) O Yuki Conjugate  Equator Harold Budd  The Room Antibalas Afrobeat Orchestra  Vol 1 Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan  Devotional Songs ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:15:14 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Section 25 Tim, >>I've only heard 'New Horizon' on a Factory Video (which is an OK Joy Divison-y thing with a rather atmospheric video shoot around the Lancashire moors) and Looking from a Hilltop (which is a rather tepid New Order by numbers thing). I'm willing to accept that I haven't heard the best of S.25, so convince me why I should listen to these!<< Like Paul says, you're pretty much in ths slot. new Horizon is probably the most atmospheric piece on the 1st album - much of the stuff is more up-beat. Often compared to JD, early SXXV is a lot closer to PiL in sound. The 1st album is the definitive one - the second (Key of Dreams) was actually made in parallel to the first at Sections' own studio so is more experimental (Always Now is a Hannett production at Britannia Row). Looking from a Hilltop is late-period electronic stuff - (it was a TB303/TR606 combination Paul!) Bit unfair to call it New Order by numbers, though there are clearly links between the bands. Sections' 1st single was produced by Ian Curtis... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 09:38:54 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act > > > 01. Gloria ( Van Morrison ) > > > 02. The Man Who Sold The World ( David Bowie ) > > > 03. Homosapien ( Pete Shelley ) > > > 04. Dancing Barefoot ( Pattie Smith ) > > > 05. Neon Lights ( Kraftwerk ) > > > 06. Hello, I Love You ( The Doors ) > > > 07. The Needle & The Damage Done ( Neil Young ) > > > 08. Bring On The Dancing Horses ( Echo & The Bunnymen ) > > > 09. For Your Pleasure ( Roxy Music ) > > > 10. All Tomorrows Parties ( Velvet Underground ) > > > > > > ///////good god what a prospect. . and the prospect of jim tackling > > > homosapien sounds like another excruciating low point in his mostly > > > excrucitiatingly bad career. p > > As if they could get any lower than 'Belfast Child'.... ///// truly one of the low spots of contemporary music. an utter tragedy. > This reminds me of that covers LP Duran Duran did as they were on the skids > as SM are now. It included a cover of White Lines by Grandmaster Flash > which made them a laughing stock and pretty much was the last nail in their > UK career coffin. Oh well heres hoping! /////looking at that track list i suspect JK will give fat simon & co a run for their money. > But I kind of want to hear this record, in the same way when I had my > wisdom teeth taken out recently I wanted to take the tooth home. /////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. > > > Various listees mentioned 'Tuxedomoon' > > I have no idea who these are, and all I can say is that it is a dreadful > name for a band and conjurs up a really trashy, new romantic image. Mind > you I'm in a band with a shit name so what do I know? > > However none of you have explained why Wire fans might wish to hear this > band or where they were coming from. Convince away! > /////file under "quirky". not my thing at all i'm afraid (see also xtc , the residents , presidents of the usa , they might be giants , b.a robertson etc etc)p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:45:43 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act In a message dated 8/14/01 8:40:45 AM Central Daylight Time, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: << ////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. >> i strongly disagree....i think the siouxsie covers album was very good....especially the Passenger..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:53:08 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/14/01 8:40:45 AM Central > Daylight Time, > PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: > > << ////that siouxsie covers album was another > karaoke horror as well. those > things seem to have "contractual obligation" written > all over them. >> > i strongly disagree....i think the siouxsie covers > album was very > good....especially the Passenger..... > Yeah its pretty good, but marked the start of their decline for me. The Sparks song that opened it was great! Also liked the 12" mix of Wheels on Fire and the Kraftwerk cover which they really made their own. The last truly great Banshees track though is 'An Execution' from the flipside of 'Cities In Dust'. Anything by the Banshees is better than Bleedin' Elastica Paul!!!!!! Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:53:41 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act definitely not one i'll be running out & buying (off the top of my head, the only covers albums i've ever picked up are the pine valley cosmonauts' johnny cash & bob wills tributes & robert forster's i had a new york girlfriend, all quite good) ... but even so, i'm struck by the inclusion of *yet another* version of dancing barefoot. great song, but christ, don't people know anything else by patti smith? kimberly, anyone? redondo beach? etc? sometimes i wonder if anyone's covered anything else of hers since penetration did free money back in primordial times (& of course the sears covered free money as well, but i'm told they thought it was a penetration original ... kids those days). dan >> > > 01. Gloria ( Van Morrison ) >> > > 02. The Man Who Sold The World ( David Bowie ) >> > > 03. Homosapien ( Pete Shelley ) >> > > 04. Dancing Barefoot ( Pattie Smith ) >> > > 05. Neon Lights ( Kraftwerk ) >> > > 06. Hello, I Love You ( The Doors ) >> > > 07. The Needle & The Damage Done ( Neil Young ) >> > > 08. Bring On The Dancing Horses ( Echo & The Bunnymen ) >> > > 09. For Your Pleasure ( Roxy Music ) >> > > 10. All Tomorrows Parties ( Velvet Underground ) >> > > >> > > ///////good god what a prospect. . and the prospect of jim tackling >> > > homosapien sounds like another excruciating low point in his mostly >> > > excrucitiatingly bad career. p >> >> As if they could get any lower than 'Belfast Child'.... > >///// truly one of the low spots of contemporary music. an utter tragedy. > > >> This reminds me of that covers LP Duran Duran did as they were on the skids >> as SM are now. It included a cover of White Lines by Grandmaster Flash >> which made them a laughing stock and pretty much was the last nail in their >> UK career coffin. Oh well heres hoping! > >/////looking at that track list i suspect JK will give fat simon & co a run for their money. > > >> But I kind of want to hear this record, in the same way when I had my >> wisdom teeth taken out recently I wanted to take the tooth home. > >/////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. >> >> >> Various listees mentioned 'Tuxedomoon' >> >> I have no idea who these are, and all I can say is that it is a dreadful >> name for a band and conjurs up a really trashy, new romantic image. Mind >> you I'm in a band with a shit name so what do I know? >> >> However none of you have explained why Wire fans might wish to hear this >> band or where they were coming from. Convince away! >> >/////file under "quirky". not my thing at all i'm afraid (see also xtc , the residents , presidents of the usa , they might be giants , b.a robertson etc etc)p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:55:18 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act whoops ... forgot to mention this one as one of the few covers albums i own. i also think it's pretty decent, & that the passenger is the definite highlight. dan >In a message dated 8/14/01 8:40:45 AM Central Daylight Time, >PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: > ><< ////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those >things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. >> >i strongly disagree....i think the siouxsie covers album was very >good....especially the Passenger..... > >Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:04:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act << << ////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. >> i strongly disagree....i think the siouxsie covers album was very good....especially the Passenger..... >> The one that did work well was the Nick Cave one - the choice of songs was better (standards such as By the time I get to Phoenix) and the band never tried to play in any style other than their own. Songs like the Passenger are so intertwined with the familiar recording it's difficult to cover them in an original way. Once you start leaving the arrangement in place it never seems to work, which is the problem with the Siouxsie version. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:09:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act --- MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > << << ////that siouxsie covers album was another > karaoke horror as well. > those > things seem to have "contractual obligation" > written all over them. >> > > i strongly disagree....i think the siouxsie covers > album was very > good....especially the Passenger..... >> > > The one that did work well was the Nick Cave one - One that works even better is Ground Zero Plays Standards... A gobsmacker, out of this world, beyond the ken of mere 'rock' bands and the like. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Otomo Yoshihide is a musical genius! Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:16:14 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act > The last truly great Banshees track though is 'An > Execution' from the flipside of 'Cities In Dust'. > > Anything by the Banshees is better than Bleedin' > Elastica Paul!!!!!! > ///// hmmmm. i'd say the best of elastica was much better than the worst of siouxsie. although the best of siouxsie is a lot better still. my fave banshees would be the 2 x peel sessions cd (the first 2) i guess , they never quite got that "edge" again. though "the scream" came close. for me the later stuff was a bit "goth by numbers" , ok but hardly earth-shatterring. about the same criticism as i'd level at the cure actually (he says , ducking). and i thought the passenger was just way too familiar a track to do a cover of. you can't top iggy. p ps anyone want to buy a glove 12" single , played about once? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:30:31 +0100 From: "Jerry Butson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act I was a teenage Simple Minds fan. There, I said it. But I refuse to join the Minds bashing hoardes, though, yes, they should have jacked it in after "Sparkle in the Rain". How disappointing, then, to see the once mighty Minds resort to the covers album approach. It kind of worked for Duran (come on, there was some good stuff on "Thank You") because they never took themselves too seriously. To take this approach smacks, to me, of a band trying to make out they're a BAND. It worked for Siouxsie and Duran butsurely not for the ever-so-affected Minds. Where's the stuff that REALLY influenced them (before they got into Springsteen)? Vague flashes in Bowie, Shelley, Kraftwerk, Roxy but all obvious song choices as Dan intimates. How about Station to Station, Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street Life. Where's Derek Forbes now? jerry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan bailey" To: "idealcopy" Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act > definitely not one i'll be running out & buying (off the top of my head, the > only covers albums i've ever picked up are the pine valley cosmonauts' > johnny cash & bob wills tributes & robert forster's i had a new york > girlfriend, all quite good) ... but even so, i'm struck by the inclusion of > *yet another* version of dancing barefoot. great song, but christ, don't > people know anything else by patti smith? kimberly, anyone? redondo beach? > etc? sometimes i wonder if anyone's covered anything else of hers since > penetration did free money back in primordial times (& of course the sears > covered free money as well, but i'm told they thought it was a penetration > original ... kids those days). > > dan > > > >> > > 01. Gloria ( Van Morrison ) > >> > > 02. The Man Who Sold The World ( David Bowie ) > >> > > 03. Homosapien ( Pete Shelley ) > >> > > 04. Dancing Barefoot ( Pattie Smith ) > >> > > 05. Neon Lights ( Kraftwerk ) > >> > > 06. Hello, I Love You ( The Doors ) > >> > > 07. The Needle & The Damage Done ( Neil Young ) > >> > > 08. Bring On The Dancing Horses ( Echo & The Bunnymen ) > >> > > 09. For Your Pleasure ( Roxy Music ) > >> > > 10. All Tomorrows Parties ( Velvet Underground ) > >> > > > >> > > ///////good god what a prospect. . and the prospect of jim tackling > >> > > homosapien sounds like another excruciating low point in his mostly > >> > > excrucitiatingly bad career. p > >> > >> As if they could get any lower than 'Belfast Child'.... > > > >///// truly one of the low spots of contemporary music. an utter tragedy. > > > > > >> This reminds me of that covers LP Duran Duran did as they were on the > skids > >> as SM are now. It included a cover of White Lines by Grandmaster Flash > >> which made them a laughing stock and pretty much was the last nail in > their > >> UK career coffin. Oh well heres hoping! > > > >/////looking at that track list i suspect JK will give fat simon & co a run > for their money. > > > > > >> But I kind of want to hear this record, in the same way when I had my > >> wisdom teeth taken out recently I wanted to take the tooth home. > > > >/////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those > things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. > >> > >> > >> Various listees mentioned 'Tuxedomoon' > >> > >> I have no idea who these are, and all I can say is that it is a dreadful > >> name for a band and conjurs up a really trashy, new romantic image. Mind > >> you I'm in a band with a shit name so what do I know? > >> > >> However none of you have explained why Wire fans might wish to hear this > >> band or where they were coming from. Convince away! > >> > >/////file under "quirky". not my thing at all i'm afraid (see also xtc , > the residents , presidents of the usa , they might be giants , b.a robertson > etc etc)p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 12:36:17 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act How about Station to Station, > Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street Life. > /////how about black country rock , you know you can't help it , expo 2000 and dance away? make a classic ep? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 17:54:06 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > > The last truly great Banshees track though is 'An > > Execution' from the flipside of 'Cities In Dust'. > > > > Anything by the Banshees is better than Bleedin' > > Elastica Paul!!!!!! > > > ///// hmmmm. i'd say the best of elastica was much > better than the worst of siouxsie. although the best > of siouxsie is a lot better still. There is no best of Elastica! > > my fave banshees would be the 2 x peel sessions cd > (the first 2) i guess , they never quite got that > "edge" again. though "the scream" came close. for me > the later stuff was a bit "goth by numbers" , Didn't Siouxsie invent goth though? I've heard people who like Chairs Missing dismiss 154 as too goth... ok but > hardly earth-shatterring. about the same criticism > as i'd level at the cure actually (he says , > ducking). > > and i thought the passenger was just way too > familiar a track to do a cover of. you can't top > iggy. p That cover of the Passenger is the album's nadir. Two more covers albums that are well worth hearing are John Zorn - The Big Gundown (music by Ennio Morricone) & Zorn's album of Ornette Colman covers Spy vs. Spy. Forget bloody Simple Minds (hey it coulda been worse, they coulda butchered Outdoor Miner...) He lies on his side! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 18:03:26 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Follow the Locust Tim replied >Graeme wrote: >if you have trouble >pronouncing Fennesz, ol'Zbigniew must look like a >nightmare! >Well I'm confused now cos they played a Fennesz track on radio 3 last >night. Before it was played they called him 'Fenn-esh' and afterwards >he was 'Fenn-ess'. Robert Sandall is a prat. That explains it. If it wasn't for the other guy Mixing It would be so middle of the road it'd bore me stupid! >Its just kind of tricky if you ask for his records in a >shop. Mind you chances are they haven't heard of him anyway. Try asking about him in Pelicanneck (Manchester) or These (London) or probably the 2 Rough Trade shops and they'll have heard more of him than us I suspect... He's not all that obsure! >A neighbour thought Throbbing Gristle was 'freaky' and funnily >enough left the flat when I put the 2nd annual report >on. >And did you not feel a bit foolish or did you want to get rid of her? Neither. >My friend who I borrowed them off said that the 2nd >annual report was originally issued with the first >side playing forwards... has it ever been reissued >this way? >Don't all records play forwards? No, there have been some designed to play backwrads actually. To be pedantically correct though, I should've said that TG played the master tape backwards for the reissue whereas apparently it was as recorded for the rare original. JAN asked >And a tip from a visitor there called the Dead C from New Zealand. Are >there ideal copy list members who knows them? I am curious. Graeme? Check out 'The Whitehouse' on Siltbreeze for the best Dead C. Definitely go to see them if they're playing live! They are pretty lo fi & atonal. And Locust, the Vera paper compare's them with DEVO. Is there one who knows them? I think they are extreme ahrdcore punk from the one track I've heard. I'll probably be going to see them in Manchester to hand out flyers for the Melt Banana gig I'm promoting at the same venue. Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:03:18 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act In a message dated 8/14/01 11:31:37 AM Central Daylight Time, jerry@vane-recordings.com writes: << I was a teenage Simple Minds fan. There, I said it. But I refuse to join the Minds bashing hoardes, though, yes, they should have jacked it in after "Sparkle in the Rain">>>>> actually, i liked them too...my favorites being Empires and Dance and yes....NEW GOLD DREAM....i don't care what anyone thinks...i really like that album.... <<<<<<>>>>>>>>> hahahaha...don't you mean before they were obsessed with being U2 ????? hahahha there was a funny send up in one of those Volume compilations (with the big booklet and cd) about how much the MInds copied U2...pretty funny stuff.... Where's Derek Forbes now? jerry >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:12:23 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] great stuff... now playing: Autechre-- live at the 9:30 club in Washinton DC cd-r wow this is really a great cd i just recieved in the mail from a friend...sounds fantastic! planned listening tonight: Sandoz - Digital Lifeforms Seefeel - Ch-Vox Anthony Manning - Islets in Pink Polypropelene Chris and Cosey - Allotropy Nurse With Wound - Thunder Perfect Mind Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:23:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act << > ///// hmmmm. i'd say the best of elastica was much > better than the worst of siouxsie. << Peek-a-boo? I'd say you could probably compile a good 45 minutes from Elastica's output. Which is more than can be said for many other Britpop also-rans. Sleeper's greatest hits anyone? >> There is no best of Elastica! >> New Puritan!! C'mon, they had Mark E Smith on a couple of songs. And their cover of Kidney Bingos was quite good ;-) > my fave banshees would be the 2 x peel sessions cd > (the first 2) i guess , they never quite got that > "edge" again. though "the scream" came close. for me > the later stuff was a bit "goth by numbers" , << I'd say the Banshees were fine and dandy up to and including JuJuAll went wron when McGeogh left (where have I heard that before...?) >>Didn't Siouxsie invent goth though?<< The usual suspects - Siouxsie (big hair, songs in 3/4 time eg Staircase). Dave Vanian (looked like Dracula). Bauhaus (songs about Dracula). Fat Bob (big hair, make-up. General air of misery) Birthday Party, Cramps, Dave Bowie, Screamin' Jay Hawkins etc... I don't think anyone invented Goth. It was just a mutant strain of punk, that harked back to glam. >> hardly earth-shatterring. about the same criticism > as i'd level at the cure actually (he says , > ducking). << One of the problems with the Cure is that they achieved megastardom, so one tends to overlook the artistic merit of their early work. Frankly, the triumvirate of 17 seconds/Faith/Pornography is on a level with Real Life/Secondhand Daylight/Correct use of soap. And they were always a great singles band, though there is a fair smattering of weak albums among the later work (The Top, Kiss me kiss me, Wild mood swings). Disintegration is a great album though. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:32:39 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act In a message dated 8/14/01 12:23:21 PM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: << One of the problems with the Cure is that they achieved megastardom, so one tends to overlook the artistic merit of their early work. Frankly, the triumvirate of 17 seconds/Faith/Pornography is on a level with Real Life/Secondhand Daylight/Correct use of soap. And they were always a great singles band, though there is a fair smattering of weak albums among the later work (The Top, Kiss me kiss me, Wild mood swings). Disintegration is a great album though. Mark >> i second that!....17 seconds/Faith (especially)/Pornography (one of the bleakest records ever)..were and are still the greatest Cure work.....and Disintegration was a great comeback at that time....everything else is so-so to weak.....Faith will always hold a special place in my heart as i listened to it constantly while going through the growing pains of my early teens.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:54:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act Graeme, << > I'd say the Banshees were fine and dandy up to and > including JuJuAll went > wron when McGeogh left (where have I heard that > before...?) I think the album w/John Carruthers of Clock DVA (Tinderbox) stands up well though. Dazzle is good too.<< I must admit I'd completely lost interest in the Banshees by then but Carruthers did inject some new life. Shame he disappeared - he was pretty good in Clock DVA - lots of effects etc. Used an Ovation guitar like Colin's too... as did R Smith in the banshees... > >>Didn't Siouxsie invent goth though?<< > > The usual suspects - Siouxsie (big hair, songs in > 3/4 time eg Staircase). > Dave Vanian (looked like Dracula). Bauhaus (songs > about Dracula). Fat Bob > (big hair, make-up. General air of misery) Birthday > Party, Cramps, Dave > Bowie, Screamin' Jay Hawkins etc... I should've put a smiley face after that invented goth comment. Mark Smith probably invented it if you ask him... or maybe it was Brix? What about Andrew Eldritch then?<< Eldritch? Johnny-come-lately! >> 17 Seconds (the one where they admit to ripping off Wire) is a good album.<< Not striuctly true that Bob admitted to "ripping off Wire". All he said was seeing Wire made him reevaluate where the Cure were heading - a conscious move away from quirky pop towards longer, slower, more atmospheric noise. In that interview he also said he didn't like Wire! >> I also like the b-side of Charlotte Sometimes 'Splintered in Her Head'. << I don't think they put a foot wrong between 1980 and 1982. >>Magazine had infinitly better lyrics, << Not a lot of people had better lyrics than Magazine.... >>more inventive keyboards<< Horses for courses - I don't think Formula would have sat well in the Cure's sound. The Cure's keyboards were very much textural - and certainly not much in evidence on Faith & Porn....which were made as a 3-piece. So libve you got either guitar or Keyboards.... >> & the previously mentioned McGeoch though...<< Again a different sort of player. Not much wrong with Robert Smith's guitar playing...I'd say they were both pretty influential players. >>Devoto's make up looked as crap as R Smith's though! >> I remember when Robert didn't wear any make-up at all.... and he always had better hair than Howie!!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:02:38 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act >In a message dated 8/14/01 11:31:37 AM Central Daylight Time, >jerry@vane-recordings.com writes: > ><< I was a teenage Simple Minds fan. There, I said it. But I refuse to join >the > Minds bashing hoardes, though, yes, they should have jacked it in after > "Sparkle in the Rain">>>>> actually, i liked them too...my favorites being >Empires and Dance and yes....NEW GOLD DREAM....i don't care what anyone >thinks...i really like that album.... by coincidence, someone somewhere in summertime went on the mix tape i made for my girlfriend a couple of nights ago for her 3-hour drive to tennesse ... yeah, the eagles fan i'm working to convert to decent music, which means i've got to take it slow & poppish (no wire because i'm gonna make her a full C90 of highlights, of course). other tracks -- flamin' groovies -- slow death holly & the italians -- tell that girl to shut up television -- careful waitresses -- i know what boys like members -- working girl soft cell -- bedsitter martha & the muffins -- echo beach billy bragg -- waiting for the great leap forwards split enz -- 6 months in a leaky boat human sexual response -- andy fell jane aire & the belvederes -- when i was young rachel sweet -- truck stop queen mekons -- fantastic voyage hoodoo gurus -- i want you back (perhaps a less than sound choice given her divorce the previous week) sound -- party of the mind wailers -- hallelujah time stiff little fingers -- barbed wire love jimmy cliff -- the harder they come slickers -- johnny too bad replacements -- unsatisfied heaven 17 -- let me go (sort of the answer to i want you back, i suppose) plimsouls -- a million miles away patti smith group -- *sigh* dancing fucking barefoot motors -- you beat the hell outta me know -- i like girls dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:15:30 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Cure Sought as Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act this has come up before, & i think i agreed with mark then -- as i do now. the cure have basically been a singles band for me since 17 secs/faith/porn ... one of the better singles bands around, for that matter, at least as far as commercial concerns go. disintegration, though, didn't do much for me (my hatred of love song -- the only cure song other than hot hot hot that i despise -- probably colored by opinion). it also doesn't hurt that they've been one of the better b-side bands around. my favorite song (to the sky, though just like heaven is certainly stiff competition) from the kiss me sessions *should've* been a b-side, rather than being relegated to some ultra-limited fiction comp. from the disintegration sessions, i think 2 late stands head, shoulders & hair (since we *are* talking about robert smith here) above any of the singles (though fascination street does very nicely in a pinch). can't say i've really sat down & listened to the b-sides from wish & wild mood swings much, though anything on the latter album could be outdone fairly easily. given their overall track record in such matters, i'd say that the decision to release no singles (& hence no b-sides) from bloodflowers was mistaken ... the 3 or so unreleased tracks i heard via napster were pretty decent (though i can't go back & review them because all that stuff vanished when my hard drive crashed in december). dan, seeing dylan tonight even though he's done maybe 3 good songs since, god, i was in second grade ... & wondering if a blank tape is lying around so i can cobble together some soft cell & cowboys international b-sides >>> hardly earth-shatterring. about the same criticism >> as i'd level at the cure actually (he says , >> ducking). << > >One of the problems with the Cure is that they achieved megastardom, so one >tends to overlook the artistic merit of their early work. Frankly, the >triumvirate of 17 seconds/Faith/Pornography is on a level with Real >Life/Secondhand Daylight/Correct use of soap. And they were always a great >singles band, though there is a fair smattering of weak albums among the >later work (The Top, Kiss me kiss me, Wild mood swings). Disintegration is a >great album though. > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act How about a Johnny and the Self Abusers track? John - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > How about Station to Station, > > Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street > Life. > > > /////how about black country rock , you know you > can't help it , expo 2000 and dance away? make a > classic ep? p Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:35:33 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act >Where's the stuff that REALLY influenced them (before they got into >Springsteen)? Vague flashes in Bowie, Shelley, Kraftwerk, Roxy but all >obvious song choices as Dan intimates. How about Station to Station, >Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street Life. > >Where's Derek Forbes now? > >jerry reminds me of the fanzine reviewer (jack rabid of the big takeover) who wondered way back when about u2's putting on airs in rattle & hum about how old r'n'b stuff constituted their major influence (or so i gather -- i didn't see the by-all-accounts-leaden movie & don't think i've heard the soundtrack ... if i do, i've certainly never listened to it). what about late-'70s punk, esp. the irish stuff? undertones? stiff little fingers? virgin prunes (obviously)? dan >----- Original Message ----- >From: "dan bailey" >To: "idealcopy" >Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 4:53 PM >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act > > >> definitely not one i'll be running out & buying (off the top of my head, >the >> only covers albums i've ever picked up are the pine valley cosmonauts' >> johnny cash & bob wills tributes & robert forster's i had a new york >> girlfriend, all quite good) ... but even so, i'm struck by the inclusion >of >> *yet another* version of dancing barefoot. great song, but christ, don't >> people know anything else by patti smith? kimberly, anyone? redondo beach? >> etc? sometimes i wonder if anyone's covered anything else of hers since >> penetration did free money back in primordial times (& of course the sears >> covered free money as well, but i'm told they thought it was a penetration >> original ... kids those days). >> >> dan >> >> >> >> > > 01. Gloria ( Van Morrison ) >> >> > > 02. The Man Who Sold The World ( David Bowie ) >> >> > > 03. Homosapien ( Pete Shelley ) >> >> > > 04. Dancing Barefoot ( Pattie Smith ) >> >> > > 05. Neon Lights ( Kraftwerk ) >> >> > > 06. Hello, I Love You ( The Doors ) >> >> > > 07. The Needle & The Damage Done ( Neil Young ) >> >> > > 08. Bring On The Dancing Horses ( Echo & The Bunnymen ) >> >> > > 09. For Your Pleasure ( Roxy Music ) >> >> > > 10. All Tomorrows Parties ( Velvet Underground ) >> >> > > >> >> > > ///////good god what a prospect. . and the prospect of jim tackling >> >> > > homosapien sounds like another excruciating low point in his mostly >> >> > > excrucitiatingly bad career. p >> >> >> >> As if they could get any lower than 'Belfast Child'.... >> > >> >///// truly one of the low spots of contemporary music. an utter tragedy. >> > >> > >> >> This reminds me of that covers LP Duran Duran did as they were on the >> skids >> >> as SM are now. It included a cover of White Lines by Grandmaster Flash >> >> which made them a laughing stock and pretty much was the last nail in >> their >> >> UK career coffin. Oh well heres hoping! >> > >> >/////looking at that track list i suspect JK will give fat simon & co a >run >> for their money. >> > >> > >> >> But I kind of want to hear this record, in the same way when I had my >> >> wisdom teeth taken out recently I wanted to take the tooth home. >> > >> >/////that siouxsie covers album was another karaoke horror as well. those >> things seem to have "contractual obligation" written all over them. >> >> >> >> >> >> Various listees mentioned 'Tuxedomoon' >> >> >> >> I have no idea who these are, and all I can say is that it is a >dreadful >> >> name for a band and conjurs up a really trashy, new romantic image. >Mind >> >> you I'm in a band with a shit name so what do I know? >> >> >> >> However none of you have explained why Wire fans might wish to hear >this >> >> band or where they were coming from. Convince away! >> >> >> >/////file under "quirky". not my thing at all i'm afraid (see also xtc , >> the residents , presidents of the usa , they might be giants , b.a >robertson >> etc etc)p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:39:10 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act i'm still waiting for simply red (i *think* they still exist) to do something from the frantic elevators' oeuvre. i suppose dexy's are long gone, quashing all hopes for a killjoys cover. dan >How about a Johnny and the Self Abusers track? > >John > >--- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: >> How about Station to Station, >> > Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street >> Life. >> > >> /////how about black country rock , you know you >> can't help it , expo 2000 and dance away? make a >> classic ep? p >Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger >http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:40:28 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jim Kerr Sectioned under Throbbing Gristle Act > I was a teenage Simple Minds fan. There, I said it. But I refuse to join the > Minds bashing hoardes, though, yes, they should have jacked it in after > "Sparkle in the Rain". I will not call myself " was ' a teenage SM fan. I am still one.. Incidentlly, whole last month i was played my old SM stuff. Empires & Dance , Sons/Sisters, New Gold Dream..etc, etc.. I agree that Sparkle was last one i like it. > > How disappointing, then, to see the once mighty Minds resort to the covers > album approach. It kind of worked for Duran (come on, there was some good > stuff on "Thank You") because they never took themselves too seriously. To > take this approach smacks, to me, of a band trying to make out they're a > BAND. It worked for Siouxsie and Duran butsurely not for the > ever-so-affected Minds. I like Banshees cover album, even if i am think that is weaker that regular ones. that Kraftwerk cover is mighty.. and Ferry one.. But best covers Banshees done was Thorn EP when they cover themselves.. Next year i think Polydor ( Polygram ) will offer to us 4CD with b-sides..etc,etc.. i always like Banshees b-side.. > > Where's the stuff that REALLY influenced them (before they got into > Springsteen)? Vague flashes in Bowie, Shelley, Kraftwerk, Roxy but all > obvious song choices as Dan intimates. How about Station to Station, > Telephone Operator, Pocket Calculator and Street Life. Yes, i agree !!! All of us can remember that Kerr pointed finger at Genesis as his main influence. He was brave in that times to admit that he like Genesis ( it was blasphemy then..) , but haven' t enough courage to admit now.. I just wonder how he doesn' t include Love Will Tear Us Apart or Atmosphere on album. At least Atmosphere lyric has walk away which is his favourite line(s).. But, i will add something. They got into Springsteen and Kerr wish he was Bono or was different.. Nevermind.. > > Where's Derek Forbes now? Yes, where is he now !! mileta ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #247 *******************************