From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #240 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, August 8 2001 Volume 04 : Number 240 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re:generalizations swept ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] Durutti Column? [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to: [kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] Re:generalizations swept > Well I'm a female, getting a higher education, and showered a few > hours ago. Do I count? > - -Heather doubly so - but that's the point, isn't it? my wife quite enjoys wire, in particular the vid for eardrum buzz and went to see them with me twice (but not the last time) but she is not near as obsessive about music as i which is more of the point as well she would be far more apt to join a mailing list about visual art or collecting americana than a rock band ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:26:04 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz Tim asked about leather trousers >>>>Is it OK for Killing Joke, The Stranglers, The Ramones, Wire, The Beatles, The Velvet Underground et al to where Dead Cowhide then? Little girls didn't like these bands because their daddy did. This is more provocative than anything you or I can type. After all that's the only reason we bother, not because we might hear about something very interesting like Fennesz. But none of these bands had to make a pose to validate their rock, whereas DM never have rocked but provoked dead cows to cling to their legs to try to prove that they could. Wire in leather trousers? Do you have the pictures? Killing Joke were more into Maori skirts when I saw them (well Youth was). Dead cow hide is bad karma & smells bad too. No wonder rock bands love the cliche! Tim got curious... >Supersilent 5 >Supersilent 4 >>>Like the name. What is it? The future of jazz. From Norway... Makes Squarepusher sound like... Squarepusher! But they combine digital noises with incredible loosely jazz based improvisations in a manner that has got them compared to electric era Miles Davis. I played a bit to bit fan of elec MD & he was of the opinion that it was more like Throbbing Gristle... It isn't like either really... It's Supersilent... The new one was so good I went straight back & got S4 the same day! Up there w/ Fennesz, Niblock, Toral, Silo & Bardo Pond (yes it grew on me). Told you Fennesz was very good... Some of his other CD's on Touch are more abrasive & noisy. The early single 'plays' sees him deconstruct Paint it Black Touch comp EP Light has a great track in a similar vein to Endless Summer An early single involved some Colin Newman input. I pronounce it Fennez Shlom at Pelicanneck says Fenneshz which is probably right, but I've got used to just zedding it! I wish you all an Endless Summer! Graeme np Monolake - Hong Kong ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:41:53 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz In a message dated 8/7/01 10:27:44 AM Central Daylight Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: << Tim asked about leather trousers >>>>Is it OK for Killing Joke, The Stranglers, The Ramones, Wire, The Beatles, The Velvet Underground et al to where Dead Cowhide then? Little girls didn't like these bands because their daddy did. This is more provocative than anything you or I can type. After all that's the only reason we bother, not because we might hear about something very interesting like Fennesz. But none of these bands had to make a pose to validate their rock, whereas DM never have rocked but provoked dead cows to cling to their legs to try to prove that they could. ok, why do some of you insist on attacking DM? ...c'mon guys...DM have put out some great music....Martin Gore is a great songwriter....he has a knack for making the perfectly twisted pop song.... Dead cow hide is bad karma & smells bad too. No wonder rock bands love the cliche! i kinda like my leather trousers....especially when i'm ridin' my bike in the fall... Makes Squarepusher sound like... Squarepusher! actually, i wish Squarepusher didn't sound like squarepusher at times...lol....seems to be in a bit of a rut lately... I wish you all an Endless Summer! Graeme you too Graeme....i think you are a top bloke! (as you brits say) thanks for the cds!...i almost have your tapes ready for trading np Monolake - Hong Kong i really think i need to check Monolake out....any suggestions of what to start with?...don't really want the stuff too based in the dance realm of techno... ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:57:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz Graeme, << Wire in leather trousers? Do you have the pictures?<< Well, I have one of G Lewis in a nice leather blouson jacket..... >> Dead cow hide is bad karma & smells bad too. No wonder rock bands love the cliche! >> Is that bad or baaaaaddd? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:32:45 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Was Rob Ellis Clean? Ian was speaking in parenthesis Rob Ellis (is this the same guy who played drums for PJ Harvey?) Yes. He likes a bit of Morton Feldman. Tim quoted this >>>>on Wireviews Charles says: >>"You know there's this profile of a Wire fan that's pretty spot on. >That's probably why it worked, because it's really exact. You're male, >educated, clean, and you're a completist. Colin always said he thought it sad >Wire didn't have more female fans. " >>F**king Hell!!!! >Well I'm male, educated, clean? Well I took a bath tonight as I do most >nights! Completist? Only where Wire is concerned (and even then my >collection is some way from being complete). Charles was generalising. He's been known to do that. But oddly, I don't recall the bit about Wire fans being 'clean' from transcript... is there a Wireviews Gremlin at work? I'll check the original text when I get home. I shower every day usually. Does anyone on IC want to admit to a personal hygiene problem? No smelly old men for Wire! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:35:02 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Clean Maybe Wire fans are clean as 'Wire fans have in general been off heroin and other opiates for some time' I'm sure that's not what he meant... ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:57:25 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz > Told you Fennesz was very good... > Some of his other CD's on Touch are more abrasive & > noisy. > The early single 'plays' sees him deconstruct Paint it > Black > Touch comp EP Light has a great track in a similar > vein to Endless Summer > An early single involved some Colin Newman input. > > I pronounce it Fennez > Shlom at Pelicanneck says Fenneshz which is probably > right, but I've got used to just zedding it! As i said i am new on this list, and even i heard sooo much music, i must admit that i am not familiar with Fennesz. Can somebody told me more about it, in short or gave me a link to find out more. Also, i think i will pronounce as hungarian will say sh(at the end on name)-not sure for z, but maybe.. nevermind.. i must say that list is very open one, contrary of some other one sometimes very rigid.. thanx in advance rgds, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:00:03 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT; Joys of Music Collection Chaos In a message dated 8/6/01 3:32:12 PM Central Daylight Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: << As one who has never been bothered with maintaining order amongst my collection of records, tapes etc, there can be a real pleasure in coming across a tape from years back with no track listing. Whilst searching for music to iron clothes by yesterday I found one such anonymous tape, popped it into the player, and got; Legendary Pink Dots - Premonition 5>>>>>>>reissues of a lot of old LPD are already out.......i prefer the Ka-Spel solo stuff...especially the China Doll stuff Nurse With Wound - Strange Play of the Mouth>>>>>just picked up Automating vol 1......still partial to Thunder Perfect Mind.....wotta racket! Section 25 - In the Garden of Eden (I think)>>>>>>i have a few singles that i still like..wondering if i should get any of the full length reissues Cabaret Voltaire - Nag Nag Nag>>>>>>ahhhh...the mighty Cabs....just listened to the Living Legends the other day...(a compilation of all the early singles)...as far as i can tell the only blemish on the cabs record in my eyes is that crap attempt and the Chicago house sound called Groovy ,Laid Back and Nasty..and i speak as someone who owns and listens to all their albums quite frequently....as a matter of fact i am only missing a couple of Richard Kirk's solo things...hard to keep up with him.. Killing Joke - Fall of Because/Unspeakable/Requiem>>>>requiem! now there's a cracking good tune......the remix by youth (of the orb) is quite good too! SPK - Wars of Islam>>>>>>>what album is this from?...i just got Zamia Lehmanni the other day...(i know it is a very different sounding album from them but at least it's not like the mid/late 80's dance crap they made..) Kraftwerk - Antenna>>>>>>actually, i think Radio-Activity is a very underrated album Residents - Six Things to a Cycle>>>>>>>strangely enough, i have never really listened to the Residents all that much.....one of those things i have been meaning to go back and research...... Got rid of the drudgery of housework - fast. >>>>>>and any music that does that is great in my book.......cheers to you all! Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:40:16 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT; Joys of Music Collection Chaos > Residents - Six Things to a Cycle>>>>>>>strangely enough, i have never > really listened to the Residents all that much.....one of those things i have > been meaning to go back and research...... Friend of mine find out who The Residents are...but he promised them a silence. He is cartoonist and when he was in New York he made a interview with Gary Panter who made some covers for Ralph Records.. In that interview Gary named personal all The Residents but my friend was not wrote that.. If anyone is interested i can fwd.interview to list.. I dunno what list thinks about it.. Let me know ! rgds, mileta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:47:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT; Section 25 Robert, << Section 25 - In the Garden of Eden (I think)>>>>>>i have a few singles that i still like..wondering if i should get any of the full length reissues >> Every home should have the first two albums (Key of Dreams and Always Now). Buy the new LTM reissues - loads of extra tracks and only #10 each if bought direct. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 20:18:02 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Super Silent Fennesz > Mileta, > > << i must say that list is very open one, contrary of some other one > sometimes very rigid.. >> > > What did I tell you? Yeah, Mark.. it'll be easy to say you were right, but that's the way it is.. and i like it !! btw, did you notice that on other list there wasn' t any mail since..well, let's call it "happening" also mentioning New Order, did you of is to believe some sources that when they played in Japan some weeks ago New Order audience was mainly been from Smashing Pumpkins and Billy Corgan fans, ha, ha.. i don' t know if is true !!? > > Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:44:56 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Durutti Column? Hey ideal copyists...could anyone give their suggestions on the essential Durutti Column cds to own?......help me out on this one guys.... Thanks in advance, Robert Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:08:54 EDT From: WAndyComer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Durutti Column Being more of an early-Durutti Column enthusiast, I'd recommend "The Return of the Durutti Column," "LC," and especially "Another Setting" as essential records...also, 1979's "A Factory Sampler," which contains two early tracks showcasing a full(er) band and Vini's voice, "No Communication" and "Thin Ice (Detail)" ...You should also seek out Vini Reilly's 1978 (I think) single with the Nosebleeds, "Ain't Been to No Music School." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 13:50:04 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #239 >From: "Heather ." >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Girls Who Like Wire Who Like Boys Who Like Wire > >Well I'm a female, getting a higher education, and showered a few > >hours ago. Do I count? Can't imagine why not. There were plenty of women at the Wire gigs I've been to. My wife loves Wire. But then, she'd never bother writing to a list. ;) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:10:11 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT; Joys of Music Collection Chaos - ----- Original Message ----- From: > SPK - Wars of Islam>>>>>>>what album is this from?...i just got Zamia > Lehmanni the other day...(i know it is a very different sounding album from > them but at least it's not like the mid/late 80's dance crap they made..) It's from Leichenschrei - from around 1981 I think. In the pre-disco/dance days. Ian np - EG Lewis - pre>HE ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:28:59 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] totally OT ; old tapes well i'm thinking about doing some copying and i was digging thru my old tapes looking for stuff worth preserving. i seem to have a stack of old freeebie tapes off music papers. how's this for a classic item; "fiddling while romo burns" given away with MM in 1996 dexdexter ; creature feature hollywood ; lights , camera , revolution plastic fantastic ; complimentary electron viva ; now orlando ; nature's hated i actually can't pluck up the courage to play it , but i may be prepared to sell it for a large pile of cash. any bids? this weeks tip of a hot new young band to look out for is the totally excellent Los Paralyticos , together with a couple of other listers i caught their very avant-garde set last friday. i feel these guys may go far , remember where you heard it first.p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:55:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Durutti Column? Robert, >>Hey ideal copyists...could anyone give their suggestions on the essential Durutti Column cds to own?......help me out on this one guys....<< As is often the case, the first two! Start with Return of the Durutti Column (the first album) and then get LC (Vinny sings!!).They were reissued on CD a few years ago. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:50:52 +0200 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] totally OT ; old tapes > well i'm thinking about doing some copying and i was digging thru my old > tapes looking for stuff worth preserving. i seem to have a stack of old > freeebie tapes off music papers. how's this for a classic item; > > "fiddling while romo burns" given away with MM in 1996 > > dexdexter ; creature feature > hollywood ; lights , camera , revolution > plastic fantastic ; complimentary electron > viva ; now > orlando ; nature's hated > as an overseas reader, due to copyright reason i haven' t got a tape with MM but still own issue. also, never heard a note from any of that bands, but some of them if i can recall my memories properly receive Single Of The Week in MM from Everett True who is very well known for his grunge and noisy taste !? Orlando also has some good reviews, as i can remember they mention soul, Pet Shop Boys and Soft Cell in review. But after this few months bands circulating in MM mostly, never heard of any of them. Hype or better to name unsuccesfull hype , or so bad material ?? BTW, does anyone on list own WIRE fox terrier ? mileta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:27:03 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Durutti Column? In a message dated 07/08/01 19:46:32 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > > Hey ideal copyists...could anyone give their suggestions on the essential > Durutti Column cds to own?......help me out on this one guys.... > > Try "Another Setting" for starters.Then "Circuses & Bread" & you should be up & running. Chris (fresh or rather knackered from a 4 day trip to Paris where he got lost in a Virgin Megastore for 3 hours on the Champs Elysees). PS. Christ ! they have such a huge World Music section ! & Kevin the Jazz section was very very impressive. I need sleep... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 00:30:13 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Super Silent Fennesz At 16:26 07/08/01 +0100, you wrote: >Wire in leather trousers? >Do you have the pictures? Sadly enough yes! Mr Lewis and Mr Gilbert sport leather coats on page 153 of Kevins book! Mr Gilbert wears same said jacket on several other pics. No leather trousers, but I'll wager Lewis has pulled on a pair of cow kecks in his time. >Told you Fennesz was very good... ..and I didn't let that put me off! ;o) The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:50:58 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Durutti Column? interesting to see two strong recommendations for starting out with "another setting" cuz it's lighter on the guitar (more piano) than the first two. i feel the best songs on that album are the more guitar based ones (bordeaux, the beggar, spent time). my 2 cents. my other 2 cents: LC is a classic. if yer gonna buy just one, this is it. return of... is also a classic. if you are enjoying those two, then i say go on to another setting next. however, this is only early dc. next you have two early/middle period albums "circuses & bread" and "without mercy", the former being a steady progression from the early work, while the latter is two long instrumentals, basically the same piece of music with drum machine and horns pumping up the 2nd track a bit. i suggest skipping these two, going to the next two, then coming back if you're hungry for more. then comes two more albums. "guitar & other machines" and "vini reilly", the latter considered by many to be his best work. these albums feature more electronics (sequencing, sampling), and contain (imho) some of the most beautiful music ever recorded. after that you've got the more recent releases, "obey the time", "sex & death", "fidelity", "time was gigantic..." and "rebellion". rebellion was just released and i haven't heard it yet. on the rest you find vini exploring electronica even more, yet always retaining the organic (if we can call it that) quality of his vocals and guitar playing, although obey the time is instrumental. the recent work also features many more guests, usually on vocals, while the earlier work is largely vini alone or with drummer bruce mitchell and an occasional guest musician or singer. there are also several compilation/"lost tracks" cds and a couple of live ones. a lot of stuff! enjoy! -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to: Keith Hudson - Playing It Cool Keith Hudson - Nah Skin Up Dub Burning Spear - Social Living ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:37:04 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] [OT][LNILT]King Crimson... and Tool? Hi everyone, "Last Night I Listened To..." or "LNILT" Well, King Crimson, and Tool, actually. Only it wasn't on my stereo. It was in concert in Seattle. King Crimson opened. Played a pretty amazing set - mostly instrumentals. Not quite as powerful a line-up as the 1981 version, or the 94 edition, but considering how limp most rock music is today, pretty darned amazing nonetheless. Speaking of limp, that's not a word to describe a live Tool performance. Most of the frat boys got their headbanging fix, but I wonder how many of them realized that the songs they were chanting along to were about their own apelike mentality? Not many, I'm guessing. There were two shows in Seattle - tonight and last night. Both were in The Paramount - a 5000 seat hall. The shows sold out instantly, but I managed to pull some strings with a friend of mine and get tickets from a local promoter. This put me in 8th row, center. During the shows, I noticed that the seats in front of me were empty. "Hmmm", I wondered. Well, half way through Tool's set, the seats were occupied by King Crimson's drummer and bass player. None of the Tool crowd even recognized 'em. I went up after the show and politely said "Thanks" to them. And, this was after I spent the entire weekend in Nashville at the Sifl And Olly convention. Cheers, Paul P.S. If you are brave, surf here: http://www.weasel-bot.com/sifl-n-olly P.P.S. If you don't know who Sifl and Olly are, surf here: http://www.sifl-n-olly.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #240 *******************************