From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #232 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 31 2001 Volume 04 : Number 232 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] wire poster [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] OT: MercRev->FlamingLips->Delgados->Sparklehorse [fernando ] [idealcopy] john walters [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:27:12 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] wire poster there's a pretty cool poster on offer at www.pushposters.co.uk it's from a german tour just search the site for 'wire' later A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:27:52 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] yet another passing Robert from across the pond was listening among others to; >>Bim Sherman - Haunting Ground (On U-Sound) Which, sad to say, & I only just found out the great man died last year good pics and story at... http://www.reggae-vibes.com/concert/bimsherman/sherman.htm cheers A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:36:51 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] the week in bounces Recirculating up any second now... later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 11:06:45 -0700 From: fernando Subject: [idealcopy] OT: MercRev->FlamingLips->Delgados->Sparklehorse Just wondering if anyone here follows these groups in some way... in my mind, the first three seemed to have done similar sounding albums, as if passing the little secret book. I really liked MercuryRev's Dessert Songs, and most of the Soft Bulletin album as well... though at first listen I could not wonder if it was the same band... perhaps because of that, it was rather strange to hear The Delgados' the Great Eastern do the same sound, as if another one was needed. Does anyone notice the similarities? Then, now I am listening to Sparklehorse's It's A Wonderful Life, and it is a bit similar... but just on some songs... and manages to distance itself a bit to make a great listen -- and a wonderful album... but, I am wondering... what is the root of this sound... I heard that the Beach Boys was the main ingredient on MercRev's album... really? What album? I just think of harmonies when thinking of the Beach Boys, and liked what Jesus and Mary Chain or Yo La Tengo did with the Beach Boys sound... (one that I am not terribly familiar with, I must admit). cheers! - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:53:11 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Cool Suspects Jiggered Humourlessly as Paint Dried 2 points of Charles Theory seem to contradict each other >>>>1. You listen to what you grew up with. Why? Why not? Why? Why not? Thrown away! >>>3. Many people listen to music because they think its cool not because they like it. Want proof? Read this digest. If most people only listen to what they think is cool, when the next cool thing comes along surely they have to ditch the old stuff they were listening to before in order to maintain the veneer of cool? Therefore in order to maintain the cool veneer, the music they grew up with must be ditched! Graham Lewis listening to Missy Elliot Suspect? Colin Newman listening to Magnetophone & Junkboy Suspect? Bruce Gilbert playing air guitar at an Elastica gig Err... well I guess he'd had a few! 3 Girl Connection royalty cheque in the post! Charles Theorised >>>>Much easier to shot holes than find the commonality! If Tim Robinson & I agree on one thing (aside from liking Wire) it is that we love an argument! I'm hardly going to agree with you if I disagree though am I? >>>>you can't see that because you're thinking only of yourself. I was thinking of myself and the other regular posters to IC and the people I know who listen to music. >>>>But if you look at buying public, music listeners in general, it holds true... Really I think that most people do listen to music that moves them in some way, not just to impress their mates or because the adverts told them to do it! It might be the music they grew up with. It might not. Of course there are a lot of younger listeners who'll pick upon things for the perceived 'cool' factor, but I think we can put it all down to that old difference of opinion thing in the end. As Michael said, no amount of argument will convince Craig that In Esse is worth his listening time - he'll just have to listen to it. In the same vein, no amount of listens to Wire will convince many people... I think ultimately all you're talking about here is your perception of why people listen to the music they do other than the real reason (that it moves them). It can more reasonably argued that most people are simply moved by vapid piffle. >>>>Most everyone on this list is an exception, But you said the proof of your theory that people listen to what they think is cool, rather than what they like, can be found on this list! So have you changed your mind about the 'far too much I'm so cool I only listen to' thing you were on about a few weeks back? >>>>because, to paraphrase one of your idols, I don't have any idols! >>>>we emphatically love music. Being pedantic again, I emphatically hate a lot of it too! >>>>That said, I think you could make a short list of bands that had there heydays in the late 70s/80s and that would cover most of the list. Do you mean most of the bands that people on IC like had their hey day in 70s80s? Then maybe I am the exception since I still listen to alot of stuff that I think is at its best now! But, at least in terms of live performance, and very likely for studio tracks too whenever they appear, I don't think we can consider the band that this list discusses (from time to time) to have had their heyday just yet! >>>>Read something other than the Wire. Now its you who sounds like you need one of your beloved pins... I read plenty of things other than the Wire. Got any suggestions as to what I should read? I've read most music mags at one time or other and have found that 1. The Wire covers more stuff of interest to me. 2. It's not nearly as moronic & patronising as all the other mainstream titles. It might not have the best jokes, but if I want that I can read Private Eye. Just read 'Cocaine Nights' by JG Ballard (and guessed the end as I usually do with his books!) Actually I've stopped buying The Wire just because I realised I was reading less of it every month to the point where it was only the listings & adverts that could really be called 'essential reading'! >>>>In General it holds true. If not, we wouldn't have a Mega-crap Record industry. Here are some more throw away statements: All industry is crap. The planet is dying. We have to have a crap record industry for the underground to rail against on a train out of it! There are lots of other reasons why the record industry is crap... Can it be that most people are just idiots? It can't be true can it? Oh alright then, I haven't got a clue why a middle aged man would buy a Geri Halliwell CD! Or do I? I don't know, maybe I don't know much of anything anymore... but someone who worked in Our Price told me a lot of Spice Girls records got sold to middle aged men. I don't think this is because they grew uplistening to them or thought they were being cool. Maybe they were all buying them for their daughters who would grow uplistening to them, get big kudos from their schoolmates and then never move on to listen to anything else? And I still haven't found it what it was is I was a looking for! But it wasn't a CD in Our Price & Tesco! >>>>>>>2. Most innovation in "rock/pop" music occurred in the sixties and seventies. >Depends how you define "rock/pop". "We still need, uh, innovation in rock music... And you know, there's a lot of it out there!" >>>>Perhaps, but the hole here - you missed one Graeme - - is technology. I would also add that in the 80s lots of bands took things to further extremes (louder, faster, harder, funnier, darker) and this wasn't just down to technology. In fact some of these bands used a more lo tech approach than, say, the Beatles. You could apply the technology thing to the 60s as well surely? Take the Beatles - technological advances facilitated some of their hippy trippy experiments that they wouldn't have been able to get up to round the time of she loves you yeah yeah yeah. As for the line that prog died with technological advance from late 70s, this appears to jar with Kevins view that Wire (& This Heat) were in a sense carrying a prog torch, in as much as they did progress... When I think of the prog bands though, it seems to me that the members of some of them did genuinely progress & continue to do so (Fred Frith, Tim Hodgkinson, Robert Wyatt & Chris Cutler spring instantly to mind) but many weren't progressing at all in any positive sense. Of course dear old Genesis did progress financially! And the Floyd got bigger pigs! >>>>However, appropriation is one of the greatest strengths of "rock/pop" But Island records didn't understand this. Poor old Negativland. I guess we shouldn't mention the 3 Girl Rhumba connection at this point... or maybe we should? Money money money very funny in Elastic Man's world! >>>>However, I personally enjoy researching musics that are roughly progressive. Doesn't mean I don't like Can, Reich et al... I could've sworn Can progressed up to 'Smoke' (maybe their most concise and ultimate statement?). I think Czukay continued to progress for sometime after that. But like 'Indie' & independent, 'Prog' & progressive have come symbolise different things. >>>>Honey, I've been selling records people have been buying only to put on their shelf and never listen to again for a few years now. Remember the Needle? Use it. You never kissed my honey lips! I never saw all the colours bleed in to one big mess! I want someone to use their brain and not come up with an uptempo song when I have to stick a needle in a dead dog! Left on the shelf by the cool sounds YOU grew up with! How do you know they only listened to those records once? I think they might have bought them out of genuine curiosity rather than because they thought they were being cool or grew up listening to that stuff, surely? Or do I just have too high an opinion of music fans? >>>>Are there many more like you? Depends in what way! I was a worm in the night! And I have kissed honey lips! But I still haven't found it what it is I'm looking for... Well I'll be jiggered! There it is! Graeme np Bowery Electric - Beat ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 11:13:17 CST6CDT From: mflaher3@triton.cc.il.us Subject: [idealcopy] I'm just so cool :) > Eric defined cool > >>>>Bruce Mau defines cool as "Conservatism dressed in > black." > I tend to agree. > > Then alas I'm not a cool person. Umm ... then I guess I am. I never would have known. :) Depends on what you mean by conservative, of course. In politics or art, no, but in dress and general life-style, yes. And I wear black regularly. How exciting. Michael Flaherty - ------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Triton College's Web E-Mail. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:55:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Dead Industrial Atmosphere Dan opined on Democracy by Killing Joke >>>>haven't played it (or any kj beyond the first 2 albums) in some while, but it definitely made a better impression on me than pandemonium or extremities. at least one song sounded like it could've been an outtake from leatherface's mush cd -- a very good thing where i come from. Mush is a brilliant record. In the early 90s days I used to hitch around the country from gig to gig. And many were Leatherface gigs, I must've seen them about 30 times. They would always pullover & pick me up if passing. Anyway I guess I will have to give it another listen. After all I didn't rate Pandemonium on the first listen & am liking it more & more. >>>>>White Stripes (live >>>>who are these guys? A raw guitar/drum r'n'r duo quite good but perhaps not worth paying #8 to see live... Then again I haven't seen them live (only taped them off the radio) I want the moon! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:21:28 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Dead Industrial Atmosphere >Dan opined on Democracy by Killing Joke >>>>>haven't played it (or any kj beyond the first 2 >albums) in some while, >but it definitely made a better impression on me than >pandemonium or extremities. at least one song sounded >like it could've been an outtake from leatherface's >mush cd -- a very good thing where i come from. > >Mush is a brilliant record. truly one of the best of the decade. i can't say that its successors, mix & the last, did much for me ... a hard act to follow, i suppose. nor have the post-reunion half- & whole lps penetrated my consciousness, either. now if i'd only had the good sense (&/or cents) to pick up that cd of early single & ep sides i saw in memphis sometime last year ... dan, who of course used "where i come from" figuratively ... where i *literally* came from, "a very good thing" would've been something that sounded like an outtake from an outlaws lp >In the early 90s days I used to hitch around the >country from gig to gig. >And many were Leatherface gigs, >I must've seen them about 30 times. >They would always pullover & pick me up if passing. > >Anyway I guess I will have to give it another listen. >After all I didn't rate Pandemonium on the first >listen & am liking it more & more. > >>>>>>White Stripes (live > >>>>>who are these guys? > >A raw guitar/drum r'n'r duo quite good but perhaps not >worth paying #8 to see live... >Then again I haven't seen them live (only taped them >off the radio) > >I want the moon! >Graeme > >===== >Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine >http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine > >"What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert >Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk >or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:26:58 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Ultravox, Foxx, Neu!, and a playlist >> > Depeche Mode - Exciter >> (Girlfriend's....honest!!)<<<<<> >> > embarrassed of the Mode's new lp? the ONLY song i >> dislike (sort of) is Dead >> > of Night....but i for one, am glad Dave cleaned >> his act up and got the hell >> > out of that cesspool called Los Angeles.....i >> think this new lp is really > >Well, I don't know who Dave is, dm frontman dave gahan, surely, who was having some heroin & suicide-attempt problems for awhile there. but I have to say that >DM is a guilty pleasure of mine. I think my being >reticent comes from also being a KMFDM fan! hee hee! i like dm well enough, though i'm taken by only 2 or 3 songs an album (which of course is 2 or 3 more than the vast majority of bands can muster -- not the true greats, though). i am, however, a much bigger kmfdm fan. for both quantity & quality, possibly the most impressive outfit of '89-'99 or so. > >Actually, my first encounter with their new material >was on acidplanet.com where they were the subject of a >recent remix contest. I am hoping to see them (and >Poe!) at the Shoreline Amphitheater in a few days. a friend of mine caught dm in dallas about 1 1/2 weeks ago but was not, shall we say, impressed. i forgot to ask him who opened. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:24:17 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re:[idealcopy] sleeve notes for And Here It Is...Again... What wonderfully ill-informed sleeve notes these are! Reminds me of that Depeche Mode singles collection where the sleeve notes consisted of all the bad reviews they'd had. >three small steps for mankind - the set of WIRE LPs (who ever really >listened to that RT double live affair?). If only they knew! What would they have made of Turns & Strokes! > "But to the original punk rockers and pogo kids they were >as vital as, say, the Buzzcocks, Clash or the Boys. Was there really a band called 'The Boys'? Yuck! >They persuaded many a >fanzine editor to change the look of his mag, Not Mr Rowlands! His last one looked like an evil psychedelic brain-wrong! >and they showed to a few people that >there's more to Pink Floyd than the dark side of the animals. A reference to the Harvest connection or those little bits of Barrett-esque whimsy on '154'? >(But did >they know wherre Syd really lived?) Yeah. Cambridge. But you try finding a bald, thousand-yard-stare acid casualty in Cambridge. Talk about looking for a needle in a f**kin haystack. That town is full of 'em! >"So we here at Sneaky Pete say a big >FANX to WIRE for all they did What a bunch of WANX! >(and some of what they did not, just >imagine the horrors of a fourth LP turning out like the freebie EP that >went with 154!) and bollocks to those who don't appreciate that. JANIE J. >JONES" One can only imagine the sheer terror that Dome, Cupol and Bruce Gilberts globules of sonic mayhem would have struck into the hearts of this lot. >There is also a blurb in German about the songs. The front cover >is a rather minimalist effort with the title in bold red caps at the top, >over a blue sky above 4 blurry red combine harvesters harvesting an >orange wheatfield. What that means I have no idea! Never seen it but it sounds good. Presumably a reference to the Harvest record label and their being...er four people in Wire. Actually if The Wurzels had ever done a concept LP it would have been good for that. >Just thought you'd like to know. Phillip Cheers Phillip. Enlightening stuff! _________________________ The Kids Are Alright http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:53:45 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: Re:[idealcopy] sleeve notes for And Here It Is...Again... >> "But to the original punk rockers and pogo kids they were >>as vital as, say, the Buzzcocks, Clash or the Boys. > >Was there really a band called 'The Boys'? Yuck! quite decent punk-pop band, actually, with certain songs -- first time, brickfield nights, kiss like a nun, terminal love & several others -- ranking as real gems in that subgenre. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 21:03:34 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this weekend i have mostly grooved to: i haven't posted one of these in a while, so here's a few weekend's listens: abecedarians-eureka durutti column-live at the venue faust-faust wakes nosferatu & edinburgh 1997 (thanks graeme) digital sex-essence and charm belly-singles and ep's from star album various-red hot and lisbon annika bentley-with leak, blink & breath victoria williams-musings of a creek dipper scenic-acquatica luna-the days of our nights the wake-here comes everybody psychedelic furs-book of days crawling chaos-the gas chair stereolab-wow & flutter happy mondays-pills, thrills, and bellyaches electronic-electronic blondie-once more into the bleach - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i was mostly listening to: the exotic music of Jon Hassell: Vernal Equinox Vertical Collection City: Work of Fiction ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] wired dreams Well here's my first ever Wire dream from last night: Tune into an edition of Thunderbirds. Some guy is dangling from some metalwork over a cliff or something. He's in a bad way. Virgil or Scott obviously rescue him because the scene cuts to to some steamy bar. You know the type; blinds at the window, overhead fans, long-legged dark-haired girl at the bar (whoops that's another dream!). Anyway, the camera is slowly tracking in towards the bar. The music over the top is a very polished studio version of 'Witness To The Fact'! This is confirmed as the music fades and the DJ says: "That was Wire and their new single 'Witness to the Fact." By this point the camera has reached the bar and the poor guy (puppet) who was looking a little worse for wear when we last saw him is being interviewed. He opens his mouth and out comes Mr. Lewis' voice!! I wake up. That's the last time I have a packet of crisps before going to bed.! ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:04:59 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] john walters heard on the radio this morning that john walters (ex peel producer of the 70's/80's) died yesterday. always seemed like a great bloke , i can recall really enjoying his column in zigzag. p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #232 *******************************