From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #223 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, July 22 2001 Volume 04 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Re: buggles versus coil [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] wolfies/john fryer [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: gothic folk Mariachi ["David McKenzie" ] [idealcopy] Don't Start Me Off Across The Water [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20] [idealcopy] Not just a Can influence! [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] [idealcopy] Another Torn Hook [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Considering that Douglas' old band Crisis was supposedly ultra left-wing > (have > not heard them myself), I've always taken the fascist comments with a grain > of > salt... //////// the 2 guys who wrote the songs in crisis were doug and tony wakeford , TW was allegedly kicked out of DIJ for "membership of right wing groups " (make of that what you will). i thought crisis made quite a good punk band but their later , "cleverer" stuff just didn't work. getting rid of the appalling singer and the HM-fixated lead guitarist improved it all hugely, besides, I'd heard his explanation both as having a genuine historical > interest in the time period, and the other as him having a particular fetish > for > a man in a Nazi/SS uniform. ///hmmmm , what can you say? As for their music, well I think it's pretty > spotty..a few catchy pop songs ("Runes and Men" for example), but a lot of > repetitious dreck. The earlier work is more interesting by far. //////i think everything worth hearing is on "the guilty have no past" and (especially) "nada!". i've also got "brown book" and "the world that summer" which are really monotonous and nothingy. i think he ran out of collaborators really. And they're > still going, got their latest _All Pigs Must Die_ last week...worth it just > for > the silly cover and to hear what a gothic folk Mariachi band would sound > like ;) > > ////// you're not sweetening this one for me much. any good? p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 06:51:42 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] wolfies/john fryer somebody commented about how good the wolfies "art of standing up straight" was. i heard this again recently and my immediate thought was how much like he said the backing tracks were. maybe criticisms of graham for the slightly lacklustre hail/take care might be down to him giving JF too much control of things? what else has john fryer done? is there a "john fryer sound"? can't think of too much that springs to mind. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 07:53:51 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: gothic folk Mariachi About ten years ago there was a Mexican band who looked very much like the Cure (hair , poorly-applied makeup, etc) but played very traditional cumbia. My spanish was not sufficiently good to understand the lyrics. They were very popular on MTV-Latino. ... I also think I mentioned "Porque No Puedo Ser Tu: Tributo A The Cure"... My wife awoke laughing one morning from a dream which ended with an ex-boyfriend hiring mariachis to seranade her. The musical selection was "Hickory-Dickory Dock" One of the funnier musical juxpositions I ever envisioned. Musical dreams anyone? David (still biding time waiting for new wire(related) material to discuss) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 08:03:15 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:[OT alert] Martian sitings Mark Cunningham (ex of legendary nowave MARS) is touring the US. He is at the (less than legendary) Gold Dollar Show Bar in Detroit tonite and the Empty Bottle in Chicago tommorrow. Being that he resides in Spain these days, this is a very rare treat. Unfortunately I deleted the Motion notice which clued me, but there were a number of other dates in the US and I think europe as well. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 09:26:10 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wolfies/john fryer At 6:51 AM -0400 7/21/01, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: >somebody commented about how good the wolfies "art of standing up straight" >was. i heard this again recently and my immediate thought was how much like >he said the backing tracks were. maybe criticisms of graham for the slightly >lacklustre hail/take care might be down to him giving JF too much control of >things? > >what else has john fryer done? is there a "john fryer sound"? can't think of >too much that springs to mind. p Actually, I am willing to try something produced by John Fyer if I do not know the band... I spotted an album recently with his markings on it, but forget now which one. He did work with Lush's SEAR EP (what a trio of producers they got for those first three EPs with Tom Friesse-Green and Robin Guthrie)... What is up with the Wolfgang Press... did they break up? - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:50:21 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Don't Start Me Off Across The Water In Robert's book >>>>Matt Johnson has always been criminally underated I had a compilation CD-R of Wire related ultra-obscurities on the other day (cheers Paul R) and a song came on which had me scratching my head and wondering what the hell a Brian Eno song was doing on it (I'd been listening to Another Green World a few times in the preceding weeks). Turned out it was a Gilbert & Lewis produced The The song... Dr Volume made inquiries >>>>Whats New Kind of Water like? Well I wouldn't call it abstract exactly, but it is 2 guitarists doing free improvisation with no other accompaniment. It sounds as you would expect it to if you've heard O'Rourke's dronier albums like Disengage & Remove the Need and some of Null's more skull scraping solo records. Starts with drone & chime, quite calm and drifty in parts then big clatters and splurges. It was released by Charnel (Mason Jones of Subarachnoid Space label) in 1992. It's more similar to Remove the Need than any other O'Rourke I've heard, but Null adds a more visceral interaction. Someone had offloaded a pile of Zeni Geva / Null CD's to Vinyl Exchange & I had to pick up this one and the live Albini / Zeni Geva disc having never seen either of them before. I'm more of an O'Rourke fan really, but I did very much enjoy the James Plotkin & KK Null CD & the solo Tabata (other ZG guitarist) on Elsie & Jack & the Nai Ha album. My favourite O'Rourke album is Gastr Del Sol's 'Upgrade & Afterlife' especially the first track 'Our Exquisite Replica of Eternity'. O'Rourke was a big disappointment live though. I heard him do some improvisations with Loren Mazzacane Connors which could be described as Heino-lite and then run through some solo acoustic songs which would've sounded much better with a backing band. He was having a bad day it seemed, & when CP Lee crawled across the stage to tug his trouser leg he was not amused! >>>>I fall out with GR when he disses things because they are popular and relatively lightweight compared to his diet of far-left sonic intensity. I never dis things just for being popular! The main reason that I try to push music on IC that seems to be far-left sonic intensity is that I was pushed that same way by Bruce Gilbert & Wire! I did the odd Main album here & there, a bit of Boredoms & Naked City and Shivering Man even some Ampnoise but gradually more & more of this far-left sonic intensity crept in & once it does it doesn't seem like far-left sonic intensity anymore! Hence the quote at the end of all my emails! The context in which I hear Wire has also shifted considerably. The first Wire track I bought was 12XU on a punk compilation album 'Burning Ambitions' and back in 84 they were still generally viewed in the context of punk (at least that was my perception of it). In the 80s they seemed to fit in with the (Anti?)rock bands of that time (Butthole Surfers, Sonic Youth, Big Black, Loop, My Bloody Valentine, Swans, etc) at least to my ears... I'm not saying any of these bands sound the same of course. Feed Me Drill Over Theirs It's A Boy! Then in the 90s there was another shift with Manscape which really was very confusing for the first 10 listens or so. Aside from Other Moments, I really couldn't work out if I liked it or not & it didn't fit with anything at all. The Drill album had some heavy hints of techno. Early Swim showed that Colin at least was very much into techno. Then came Disobey and the Beekeeper and recontextualised it all as explorations of pure sound as much as anything. A realisation dawned that had been subconscious all along - that noise the guitar at the start of I am the Fly made was what had drawn me in... Ab Ovo was in that sense a perfect continuation... It also pushed open a door and since then the walls have collapsed and the storm is howling through the halls. Where did the time go? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:51:07 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Not just a Can influence! Doctorin' the Mouse! >>>>Mouse on Mars are f**king brilliant. Can/Neu fans will find the spirit of those bands very much alive with an added electronic kick in their consistently splendid LPs. To take this full circle... Jan St Werner of MOM also played on the first Pluramon album 'Pick Up Canyon' (Mille Plateaux). Marcus Schmickler used very effective samples of drums played by a certain Jaki Liebezeit. If you liked Can & MoM you may well also like Pluramon. But get one of the albums proper ('Render Bandits' is also very good) rather then the recent remix thing which isn't as good. On the other hand the Reprovisers remixes by Microstoria (Jan St Werner w/ Markus Popp of Oval) is pretty good. But... Can Can can-can? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 17:51:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Another Torn Hook Tim hailed the man who said >>>>Yer man E.G.Lewis often uses that twangy/chorused bass sound beloved of Mr Hook (as does Mr Newman on his solo outings)...was there a mutual appreciation? Lewis does not like to be compared to Hook. I told him that the bass intro to 'Another The Letter' had for a split second reminded me of the guitar on 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' at the Garage Staurday gig. In Edinburgh that bass intro had been excised... A reviewer compared Ahead to Temptation at the time Ahead was released. Lewis took exception to that. Wire were more likely a Joy Division influence than the other way round. The letter brings change! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:37:34 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] wolfies/john fryer In a message dated 21/07/01 17:26:16 GMT Daylight Time, adrift@endlessblue.com writes: > Actually, I am willing to try something produced by John Fyer if I do > not know the band... I spotted an album recently with his markings on > it, but forget now which one. He did work with Lush's SEAR EP (what a > trio of producers they got for those first three EPs with Tom > Friesse-Green and Robin Guthrie)... > ///// i always thought RG ran through the same tricks with whatever band he was working with. i prefer the final , lighter , lush album to any of their (groan) "ethereal" stuff. in that creation book a really funny quote was from TFG when asked to produce the second house of love album ; apparently he told them to go away and come back when they'd finished writing the songs. and this from a guy who's produced such luminaries as sidi bou said and the zones. (only joking tim ; loved the stuff with latterday talk talk) i have been told by people that the wolfies had split up but i've never seen it said "officially". really underrated band who i think got better as they moved into dance/programmed stuff. not seen them doing anything else in the meantime either. p > What is up with the Wolfgang Press... did they break up? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 13:59:11 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] (no subject) Quote that made me laugh out loud from the New Order interview in this month's Sleazenation, courtesy of Peter Hook on the subject of the Factory film: Hooky's heartiest guffaw is reserved for the fact that Steve Coogan is playing Tony Wilson. "A f***in' major league bit of casting that is. I mean, they'v got the second biggest ar*ehole in Manchester playing the first." (pasted off www.shotbybothsides.com. thought some of you might enjoy that one. surely this movie can't be too bad to be released...........) p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:38:58 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] A Coked Up Wanker (Couldn't get a hard-on) Craig remembered some doughnuts >>>>I knew someone who spent three years glueing doughnuts to canvases and painting them bright colours. Not sure why I mentioned that, but I'm sure it's relevant in some way :) Maybe it was inspired by Bruce Gilbert's shed made out of marzipan which slowly melted in the window of Mute records until someone put a brick through the window. Craig remembered a wanker >>>>I remember standing next to some coked-up wanker at the Garage, with his non-coked-up mate with a notepad, Could this be the same silly person who shouted 'Turn it off' at the end of the He Said set? At least that's what it sounded like to me at the time. Listening to the CD, it could actually be 'Turn it up!' >>>>The coked one declared after 'Lowdown' that that was "real Wire" and all the "new" stuff was crap and the "newer" stuff was even more crap I've been doing a lot of jellies and bennies and eels and cake pills recently and I must say that I feel that 'Mary is a Dyke' is the "real Wire" and everything after that is just icing on tornado lake! They'd overstepped the mark! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #223 *******************************