From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #217 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, July 16 2001 Volume 04 : Number 217 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] old & new [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems [Mark Short ] Re: [idealcopy] Spoon ["Josh Zarbo" ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? [Mar] Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? ["Frank] Re: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? [RLynn9] Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Carter Cover Wire ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] CUSM [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Re: ok - so i have been listening to: ["david mack" Paul wrote :- > >.......saw the new new order vid on MTV2 today. bit more rock than republic > >but sounded pretty promising on a first listen. nice vid too.p > > already said elsewhere, that i think the vid only has an initial 'surprise > value', the track itself is a grower but it's hardly 'Procession' is it?!?! > how could it be though.... > > ian.s.j. ///// i was looking at it from a position of thinking it might well be a complete disaster , which it isn't. i was half suspecting another electronic/monaco fiasco with added corgan ; not very appetising. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:39:10 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems Tim wrote: > > The sleeve of CS is terrific. Bruce had a hand in it I see. > Unlike the earlier LPs or Bastard the music is difficult to place. The only > reference point I can think of is Earwig (remember them?) as it has that > same tinkling, repetetive dreamy feel of their LPs ( but It predates that > band by several years). > > The overall feel is icy and windswept. Only the rather upfront vocals > prevent it from being pretty much an Eno-esque ambinet record. The dronier > tracks remind me of Spirtualized more orchestral moments. > I agree with Wireviews point that perhaps more effort went into the > arrangements than the songwriting but I do like the interplay between Colin > and Malkas voicings and the string laden instrumentation is impressive > particularly on But I and the title track. Not at all bad actually. > To my ears, Philip Glass, Steve Reich and Wim Maertens were a big influence on CS and IS. But on these records Colin did something that stood out from the contemporary mainstream, which I don't feel his swim output manages to achieve. > > So how were these records recieved at the time? Was the title of Commerical > Suicide a self-fulflling prophecy? > Can't imagine It Seems would have made much impact at the height of Acid > House. Anyone recall any reviews? Were they just ignored? (Presumably the > nearby Wire releases hogged most of the attention) > CS was promoted quite vigorously. I remember seeing a review of it in a Uk hifi mag, which was a bit non-plussed. IS had a much lower profile...so perhaps CS did live up to its title. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:52:52 +0100 From: "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B Can anyone supply details of these two headphone CDs? j - ----- Original Message ----- From: "BillyD" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B > My vote's for 'Welcome To The Pleasuredome' and the > two cds Vince Clarke & Martyn Ware released (actually > recorded specifically for headphones). > I know I'll catch hell for this... > > Cheers, > Billy > > --- HeySean@aol.com wrote: > > well this will be popular album that is most > > transformed through the use > > of headphones are you ready? > > > > For me it has been and apparently always will be > > Jethro Tull: Thick As A Brick > > > > very close second is Wir: The First Letter > > > > ok you bastards! do yer worst!!! :) > > > ===== > . ./\/\/\. > [ . . ] > /\ > -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. > http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 > http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:59:52 +0100 From: "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil/Sutcliffe Jugend > > > This might be so, but without any documentary evidence > > > of their extreme misogyny this is just a rumour isn't > > > it? > > Perhaps, or maybe even an incorrect opinion formed by the friend in > > question. His story was that as they'd be drinking in a pub or some such, > > they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman came in / walked by. This > > could have bases other than misogyny. It's all secondary source stuff so > > who knows? > > > > I've always been under the (wrong?) impression that both Peter and John from > Coil were homosexual, thus making the misogyny an even somewhat odder concept, > using traditional stereotypes of course :) Not wishing to prolong this thread but is this based on a mistaken belief that homosexuals cannot be misogynistic? The holiday I spent in Wales with two gay friends and their friend put paid to that. Said friend acted exactly as above (hissing, derogatory comments, referring to any woman as 'vag') when sitting in a cafe. Just as dangerous as hetero-mysogyny if you ask me (which you didn't). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 04:30:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil/Sutcliffe Jugend - --- "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" wrote: > > > > This might be so, but without any documentary > evidence > > > > of their extreme misogyny this is just a > rumour isn't > > > > it? > > > Perhaps, or maybe even an incorrect opinion > formed by the friend in > > > question. His story was that as they'd be > drinking in a pub or some > such, > > > they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman > came in / walked by. > This > > > could have bases other than misogyny. It's all > secondary source stuff > so > > > who knows? > > > > > > > I've always been under the (wrong?) impression > that both Peter and John > from > > Coil were homosexual, thus making the misogyny an > even somewhat odder > concept, > > using traditional stereotypes of course :) > > Not wishing to prolong this thread but is this based > on a mistaken belief > that homosexuals cannot be misogynistic? The holiday > I spent in Wales with > two gay friends and their friend put paid to that. > Said friend acted exactly > as above (hissing, derogatory comments, referring to > any woman as 'vag') > when sitting in a cafe. Just as dangerous as > hetero-mysogyny if you ask me > (which you didn't). Insecurity regarding sexual identity? Works for both 'heteros' and 'homos'. In which case the whole need to conform to a 'hetero' or 'homo' stereotype needs to be re-examined. For the record I proceed from the pov that neither 'gay' or 'straight' is 'normal' and complicate things from there. With ref to my 'gay' friend -he's particulary keen to distance himself from what he sees as 'gay' stereotypes and won't identify himself as 'gay' as such. Cue utopian vision where everyone can have 'sex' (try defining what that is) with whoever they want to as long as consenting adults. 8-) In sum, there's a lot more fluidity re: sexuality these days which I'd say is a good thing. John Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:11:07 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B has anyone on these boards ever listened to Bruce Gilbert's Ab Ovo and In Esse all the way through in one sitting?....I have not done this yet....i find them harder to listen to than any of his earlier stuff.....opinions??? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:22:32 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: kevin eden [mailto:wmouk@yahoo.com] >Gesendet: Montag, 16. Juli 2001 09:44 >An: Ideal Copy >Betreff: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... > > >Some 2nd and third runs throughs for: > >Guru Guru - UFO !!! >A.R and Machines - Echoes of the Green.... (truly >awesome compilation of virtually overlooked >Krautrock/Kosmische musician. This has been played 3 >times in a row. My thanks to Charles for this one. >Brilliant) How comes that this very old Krautrock stuff is well appreciated from so much idealcopyists ? This music was recorded from German hippies some thirty years ago and seems absolutely dated to me. I still listen to PF and CM now and then and still like it and it sounds much more modern although it is also very old. But Krautrock ...???... is it the exotic nature of this kind of music what attracts listeners in the US to it ? Over here in Germany it is all long forgotten. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:46:05 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones > > album that is most > > transformed through the use > > of headphones ? I don't listen to music through headphones. I think it is unnatural. I hate the feel of those little thingys jammed in my earholes. It is so distracting that I can't enjoy the music. I also don't like the feel of the big cans clamped over my melon. They are too restrictive of movement. With the exception of some wanky ambient stuff, most of what I like sounds best loud and through speakers, since that was how it was made and mixed. One summer, I discovered that this effect holds true for live music as well. I was playing the Stranglers "Live XCert" outside and found that it sounded much better in a similar environment to that in which it was recorded than it did indoors. Can't say that the neighbors agreed, or appreciated the discovery in any fashion. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:22:34 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spoon > But what interest me is a record called Girls can tell > by the Spoon on a label called 12XU. What kind of label is this. Does > someone know this company? They are from Texas the magazine says.Is there > anyone from Texas on this list? > I saw Spoon once. They were opening for Swervedriver at a show at the Crocodile Cafe in Seattle. They closed their set with a pretty good version of Wire's Lowdown. I then picked up their album "A Series of Sneaks". They seem to have a Wire influence, although, with the American accents, they don't sound very "Wire"-y to my ears. With that being said, you should see the cover of their album "A Series Of Sneaks". It looks like something Graham Lewis would have put together. Plus the name - sorta a take on "A Serious on Snakes"? They do have a website: http://www.spoontheband.com/ There are MP3s and some news about the 12XU label (nothing informative, though). Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:50:13 From: "Josh Zarbo" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Spoon I'm living in Austin, Texas. 12XU is a new label by one of the co-founders of Matador records, Gerard Cosloy. I think there are five or six bands on their roster. Could even be less. Joshua > > But what interest me is a record called Girls can tell > > by the Spoon on a label called 12XU. What kind of label is this. Does > > someone know this company? They are from Texas the magazine says.Is >there > > anyone from Texas on this list? > > > >I saw Spoon once. They were opening for Swervedriver at a show at the >Crocodile Cafe in Seattle. They closed their set with a pretty good >version of Wire's Lowdown. I then picked up their album "A Series of >Sneaks". They seem to have a Wire influence, although, with the American >accents, they don't sound very "Wire"-y to my ears. > >With that being said, you should see the cover of their album "A Series Of >Sneaks". It looks like something Graham Lewis would have put together. >Plus the name - sorta a take on "A Serious on Snakes"? > >They do have a website: >http://www.spoontheband.com/ >There are MP3s and some news about the 12XU label (nothing informative, >though). > >Cheers, >Paul _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:54:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? Frank, << How comes that this very old Krautrock stuff is well appreciated from so much idealcopyists ? This music was recorded from German hippies some thirty years ago and seems absolutely dated to me.<< Probably because it sounds a lot more interesting than some of teh stuff recorded by British or American hippies 30 years ago! Granted, some of the "Krautrock" genre seems on the face of it to be very hippyish - eg Ash ra Tempel. Not that I've heard it - just from the descriptions or reviews I've read. But Neu! and Can in particular still sound very fresh and original (in much the same way as early Wire, or Dome still does). Faust is tougher going - it all sounds very jammed - though like Neu! and Can it's refreshingly free of the prog stylings that plagued British rock from the same period. >> But Krautrock ...???... is it the exotic nature of this kind of music what attracts listeners in the US to it ?<< Or indeed in the UK. >>Over here in Germany it is all long forgotten. >> I've noticed. In Berlin recently I visited WOM (like a German Tower or Virgin Megastore) and there was hardly any Krautrock to be had. The German section was mainly full of James Last albums! It's a shame that Germany, of all Continental countries, tried hard to create its own strain of rock music (not once but twice - Krautrock in the 70s and the post-punk DAF/Palais Schaumburg/Der Plan/Die Krupps/Neubauten etc scene in the early 80s) - only to be met by apathy. "Die kids" would seem to prefer imported stuff to home-grown talent. Sad. Even Neubauten record with English lyrics these days. Are there any decent new German bands? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:51:11 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones In a message dated 16/07/01 16:51:19 GMT Daylight Time, MrSodium@aol.com writes: > I don't listen to music through headphones. I think it is unnatural. I > hate the feel of those little thingys jammed in my earholes. Excuse me Mr Sodium ... In the early 70"s when I first used headphones,these little thingys were enormous great bloody things that took up your entire bedroom ... well nearly.. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:22:27 +0200 From: "Frank Jürgen Wörner" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:54 PM Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? > Frank, > > > It's a shame that Germany, of all Continental countries, tried hard to create > its own strain of rock music (not once but twice - Krautrock in the 70s and > the post-punk DAF/Palais Schaumburg/Der Plan/Die Krupps/Neubauten etc scene > in the early 80s) - only to be met by apathy. "Die kids" would seem to prefer > imported stuff to home-grown talent. Sad. Even Neubauten record with English > lyrics these days. Are there any decent new German bands? Well, the last Neubauten album is titled "Silence is sexy" but almost all tracks have German lyrics. Is there an English version of this cd? Our youth listens to Rap-Music. There are a lot of German acts but to me this kind of music seems childish ... there are also lots of turkish rap acts but all these rappers have a very "macho" attitude. I've absolutely no interest in this kind of noise ... blahblahblah ... my penis is longer than yours, my car is superior ... etc ... rap sucks. Same intellectual level as chartmuzak ... acoustic waste. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:55:12 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Krauts ??? cheers to you Frank from Bavaria....i agree....(about rap)...but i do think there was a lot of great music from Germany in the late 60's early 70's that is still a great listen today....all the Cluster/Harmonia/Neu/Kraftwerk records and some of the Tangerine Dream/Klaus Schulze stuff..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:01:41 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim > Just heard these two for the first time. > So how were these records recieved at the time? I think CS was quite well received in the weeklies. I've not heard IS but I have a vague recollection of a review in MM at the time, which likened it to a wooden washing machine - the point being (I think) that it was quite a pleasing curio but with little practical use or long term staying power. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 20:57:12 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B - ----- Original Message ----- From: > has anyone on these boards ever listened to Bruce Gilbert's Ab Ovo and In > Esse all the way through in one sitting?....I have not done this yet....i > find them harder to listen to than any of his earlier stuff.....opinions??? > > Robert My first play of Ab Ovo was through headphones. I found it tough going. Then again first plays for me are never the best. If it's something I'm really looking forward to I always get impatient for the next track whilst the 'current' one is playing. With Ab Ovo, subsequent plays have yet to prove fruitful. I think Michael Flaherty (this list) advised that I should listen to it as many times as it took for it to make sense. Perhaps its time will come. I've never heard In Esse Ian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:14:59 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Carter Cover Wire >And while we're on the subject, dare anyone admit to knowing which Wire >tune the (painfully 90s) Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine covered? thanks to Paul Rabjohn, i now know that is was 'Mannequin'. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 04:08:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] CUSM "And while we're on the subject, dare anyone admit to knowing which Wire tune the (painfully 90s) Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine covered?" Mannequin, iirc. By the way, I'm so cool I only listen to the sound of drills whilst they are drilling their way into my skull. Or something. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:37:48 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: ok - so i have been listening to: Nortec Collective - Tijuana Sessions Vol. 1 pan-cultural references in club music can be so lame (you know, when someone drops tibettan chanting over an 808 sequence, or spices up a track with a timbales patch) this recording is a true fusion of dance, tejano and god know what else, which WORKS neu! - 1/2/3 a birthday gift from a friend who deemed this material missing from my life, these are actually new to me, having somehow missed the new!/faust/can axis over the years that said, this is swell stuff - it won't change my life , but may well already have, indirectly michael o'shea all thanks to WMO for this stellar parting shot nobukazu takemura - hoshi no koe playfull chimy electronics and a heathkit sine-square audio generator thru a kaoss pad hours of fun for the entire family did i mention that the new janet jackson single rocks! that and miss(e) keep the freek on for all us stateside r)(o)(m (still waiting for new wire material) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:36:35 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] bounces on the rebound I was on a business trip in late June, then a real vacation in early July, then had to do the work that accumulated during said three-plus weeks. Which is a long way of saying that all the list bounces for the last three-plus weeks have gone unattended until today. I'm sending them all now, so you haven't really transported back as far as June 22nd, unless you got a fairly ineffectual pair of them Mark E. Smith "Wings." Anyway, apologies if any of these are repeats, but I'm only now catching up with the list mail myself! later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:04:58 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #188 among my group the major complaint about disco wasn't entirely the music (although building a whole song around one hook was rather weak), but rather that it required one to learn way too many goddamn dance steps. If heavy metal dancing required a minimum amount of dancing ability, then pogoing up and down to punk required even less (hell you didn't even have to be in step with anyone or anything). Although it's anecdotal evidence, no one I knew objected to disco on any other basis: being gay or black or whatever. It's more of that revisionist crap to now go back and overlay history with that unsubstantiated bias. I mean, people dug Bowie in spite of and because of his openly bi orientation. I'm sure it was a hoot to see people at a Tom Robinson Band show when they realized what was what when he would "Sing if you're glad to be gay" or however that tune went. As for the racist slant, most of the heavy metal guys were simply paying homage to the black R&B guys they idolized and contemporary black music was helping white guys get laid. See, it's possible that disco merely sucked (like country line dancing) because it was the worst kind of simplistic peurile shit. It's attraction was: learn the damn steps and you too can be cool and hip and NOW. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:33:58 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] last nights wonderful listening >>>I know it should be the music we discuss, but I knew a guy at University who knew Coil (or had met them) in the mid-late eighties. He claimed they were real extreme misogynists. Also, Stephen Thrower who did a stint with them used to be in an outfit called Possession (whose album "The Thin White Arms..." I own), which also boasted membership of one Anna Vagina War, who was actually a man, who openly flaunted his paedophiliac tendencies/preferences. Maybe he was trying to 'provoke a reaction.<<<<... yes...i have heard many such things..and on top of that they are complete jerks when it comes to mail order...very unorganized and unprofessional...i never recieved my copy of Musick to Play in the Dark vol.2 (which came with a mail order only bonus cd) ...and after repeated e-mails they caught their mistake and promised to send me both cds as well as a gift for my trouble..and that was many many months ago...still no cds....Funny how they will attack Stevo (head of Some Bizzarre records) and even place some lame pagan curse upon his head because he screwed them out of royalties for Horse Rotorvator....but i guess the little screwings don't count eh?....sorry i am venting ......i appreciate a lot of the stuff on your list by the way....what is your least favorite (hated it) record of 2001 so far? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:06:52 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' > Speaking of Coil, as Ian was > >>>I know it should be the music we discuss, but I > knew a guy at University who knew Coil (or had met > them) in the mid-late eighties. He claimed they were > real extreme misogynists. . His story was that as they'd be drinking in a pub or some such, they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman came in / walked by. This could have bases other than misogyny. It's all secondary source stuff so who knows?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< it probably has more to do with the fact that they are gay.....probaly just horsing around...many of my gay friends do this from time to time...they scowl and hiss at girls, especially the pretty ones who are flirting with men that they fancy....and coil are openly gay..as well as drug abusing alchoholics...but i don't hold that against them....i did see something funny on ebay once. A guy was selling his copy of the Foxtrot cd which was a benefit cd to raise money for John Balance who was in rehab...the guy went on a rant about how he thought it was funny for Coil to be so pro-drug then ask their fans for money for rehab....i agreed with everything he said! besides i was already pissed about getting screwed over by them....Even so, i still haven't let that stop my enjoyment of their music...especially the last few things..they have been wonderful...should be putting out a compilation of all the solstice/equinox cd eps with bonus material real soon....good stuff! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 13:48:08 +0100 From: "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse Hi Jerry here, Unsubscribed for a while but back from the wilderness. What did I miss? Looks like I arrived at the right time. Trojan is now a large multimedia empire. I did some research work recently for a label, spoke to the guy who runs RPM Records and discovered that RPM was bought out a few years back by...guess who. The thing is that EMI never did own the Roxy tracks. I forget how it worked but they were owned by a guy named Andrew with an unpronounceable surname (I forget his exact connections but I think ended up owning the Fridge club in Brixton). How they now reside with Trojan is anyone's guess. j ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 05:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse - - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > dunno if anyone else noticed , but the first 6 > tracks on "behind the curtain" > are credited as being licensed from trojan records. > that struck me as odd > when i read it as i always associated trojan with > reggae. i guess emi flogged > on all the roxy tapes and that's where the > buzzcocks/x-ray spex re-issues > came from. tragic they never did the wire one as the > pink flag tracks must be > in the can still. Oddly enough I remember when the XRay Spex comp came out asking the Revolver rep if there were any plans to release the Wire set from the Roxy. There are a lot of non reggae titles on the trojan label's subsidiaries inc. the Fall's Reciever Records resissues and Light User Syndrome. There are also all the old Clay Records stuff - Discharge, GBH and the like, and some very early very dodgy Madonna tracks. Didn't know Colin had anything to do with them tho. John ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:43:37 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Wire covers >>>>And while we're on the subject, dare anyone admit to knowing which Wire tune the (painfully 90s) Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine covered? Their version of Mannequin is as you might expect one of the most watered down butcherings possible, if that's not an oxymoron. Painful is definitely a good word here. You had to laugh when the weaklies described this lot as 'punk'. U2 were approached to record a cover for Whore but I don't think anything happened. They should've asked Genesis to do 'I am the fly' in glistening insect costumes and put it out as a bonus CD-ROM rock opera flick! If you can track them down these are IMO the best (non-WMO comissioned) Wire covers: Big Black - Heartbeat (from 7" & Rich Man's 8 Track) Quite an inventive reworking especially compared to all the others mentioned below. Yo La Tengo - Too Late (from Genius+Love=Yo La Tengo comp) Gives the original a run for its sister! Scrawl - Reuters (from various Simple Machines comp) Pelts along at a good pace, and has a woman shouting 'rape' which colours it slightly differently perhaps? Boss Hog - 12XU (from I Dig You 12") Slinky, slowed down and not credited to Wire! Certainly the most original of the many 12XU covers though. Well the Spasm one is good too. So is the ultra lo-fi Jack O'Fire one. And Minor Threat were an old favourite back in the day. Flying Saucer Attack - Outdoor Miner (from 7" on Domino) Drenched in feedback and quite nice too. Salem 66 - Fragile (from A Ripping Spin LP) By coincidence I bought an album by this band the same day I bought a Crazy About Love 12" and they alternated on the turntable for a trip the next day. I'd forgotten all about this cover and put this album on for the first time in ages and familiar chords struck up... hey, this isn't Wire is it? Its a fairly unremarkable cover, but for the singer's voice, and their last couple of albums are much better than this one. REM - Strange (Document LP) They lost their Eyewitness, but this was the reason I first listened to an REM album. It's quite a bit perkier than the original. There has never been a cover to eclipse a Wire original but the Yo La Tengo & Big Black ones rock! Worst Wire covers Carter Hear once and destroy! Elastica - 12XU Gold to shit from daughter who registered nought. Therapy? - Reuters I used to like this band a lot early on but when this was done at the start of their cheesy knees up bubblegum metal downslide & comes close to ruining the atmosphere totally. They also butchered the Stranglers 'Nice 'n' Sleazy' & 'Isolation' by Joy Divison & the nadir - 'Diane' by Husker Du. That one was so bad I walked out of a gig! They got away with a Membranes cover though. MJ Hancock - Outdoor Miner In the so bad its good leagues, this is presumably a home demo stuck out on Napster? Not even V/Vm would release this deluded mess of a cover. The singer really is a hoot! Thanks to Paul Rabjohn for extra Napster research! A waste of space? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 00:24:52 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Small Celebrity Wire Fires David said of The Wire >>>>speaking of that rag - i am increasingly dissappointed this month they discovered 'fire music' someone must have picked up the impulse sampler of that name, called the only black person they know in new york and cobbed together a "primmer" as they say but i guess there was no fire in chicago, cause they missed aacm in the past, present and future in favor of the nyc uptown scene Well to be fair the article was limited to one person's recommendations and they have mentioned aacm in the past (in fact even in a review elsewhere that issue). The 'Fire Music' name is probably just their way of banging on about Coltrane, Ayler, etc. which they've always done, from a 'new' perspective. Actually I found David Keenans Primer quite useful as whilst I often disagree with his negative views on some rock music, I tend to find him 'bang on' when it comes to jazz. It certainly wasn't as silly as their 'Turntablism' primer which gave Otomo, Marclay & Jeck a passing mention as footnotes to hiphop! And the Zorn Primer missed out loads of good discs, but these things are only supposed to be the 'tip of the iceberg' as it were. Maybe once I've heard everything by Zorn, Coltrane, Ayler & Sun Ra I'll have time to re-evaluate prog albums which set my teeth on edge. But any serious consideration of 'Fire Music' in the broader sense should include Pixies (Diggin for fire), the Doors (Light my fire), The Fall (Fireworks), Big Stick (Hellfire), Big Black (Set me on fire with Kerosene), the Fire Engines, Tod A's Firewater & that daft feller with the burning hat who sang about being the god of hellfire back in the olden days. The only black person David K knows in NY must be David S. Ware presumably? He travelled over there to interview Ware. But I'm increasingly disappointed with the Wire these days as well. I think it's because the editor Rob Young comes over as rather smug most of the time, unlike his predecessor Tony Herrington. This isn't surprising when one looks at the dumbed down and utterly tedious state of other UK mainstream music mags. They regurgitate the same old stories too much, especially the Lamonte Young, John Cale & Tony Conrad thing. At least the stories they regurgitate are interesting and you don't have to plough through pages of Badly Boring Boil and Lump Bozo. They've also started to sneak in too much utterly crap britpap whack like Radiohead & Primal Scream, presumably in an attempt to filch disillusioned eNMEy & Q readers. And some disgruntled eNMEy writers, like John Noakes, have been creeping into The Wire. There also appears to be a backlash against electroacoustic and academic music in general going on which is a total drag. >>>>that and wasting a full page telling us that amnesiac is unremarkable so - don't remark - ignore the unremarkable i find a lot of unremarkable stuff in the wire lately You mean you actually get to hear a lot of it?!?! This is why Charles comments on playlists are so funny. The Wire covers so much stuff that you'd have to spend the rest of your life trying to hear even a fraction of it. So why waste time re-evaluating crap stadium dinosaur plod rock that you hated? Yeah a page on Radiohead is a total waste. They should've given us a page on Hermann Nitsch, The Experience, Pat Thomas, Komet, Nobukazu Takemura, Acid Mothers Temple, OOIOO, Phill Niblock, Neotropic, Nic Endo or Foetus instead! (if you heard any of these and didn't like them then now is the time to 're-evaluate your music taste' or in the case of The Experience, your not-music taste! After all there's plenty of time now with so few reinventions occurring!) The Wire often start to feature rock bands months, even years after I started listening to them (Bardo Pond, Unwound, Blonde Redhead, Yo La Tengo, Sonic Youth & Wire being good examples). It was also quite funny that people I knew from nights in Manchester (V/vm, Speedranch & Jansky Noise) were on the cover in the same issue they printed a letter from me. But it was never the same after little Jimmy Kranky and Johnny Ball stopped reviewing the 'Outer Limits' though. Those guys knew how to give nurses wounds! And when Brian Kant wrote those spiteful nasty words about Peter Gabriel's lovely cultural reappropriations I just had to cancel my subscription! The magazine has been quite useful for its listings and just as a round up of what's released before the writing itself is even considered. One thing the writing did do was make me go back and listen to Aphex Twin again after not being initially impressed by his earlier music, and I'm glad I did because the 'Richard D. James' album was something of a revelation. I believe it was Peter Purves who bigged up the Twin so phatly, so thanks Peter and I hope Petra gets well soon. It was the fact that they featured Bruce Gilbert & Main in the same issue that impressed me enough to buy it. When I realised they often reviewed Boredoms (and even let Derek Griffiths chuck in his 2c on Yamantaka Eye's delightful howling), and never reviewed Oasis and their crummy spawn I started to read it regularly. How many other mainstream music mags have had 3 Wire related interviews over the last decade then? The Wire had Wordplay Penman's big retrospective article circa Brochure, they sent John Craven round to do Bruce's Invisible Jukebox circa Ab Ovo and there was a Wir interview circa The First Letter, although I must say Sally James made a bit of a hash of it. Meanwhile all the other mags can't even get the song titles right in their half assed reviews! Magnus Pike would have a fit! And The Wire is the only mag that actually bothers to correct its numerous errors! I guess the eNMEy would need a supplement half its own size and Patrick Moore's monocle to do that though. The Wire is sometimes pretentious, but the act of getting up on stage and making amplified noise with guitars and drums is pretentious in itself (as Chloe Ashcroft quite rightly pointed out), so I don't really have a problem with that. And Derek Bailey's hilarious Invisible Jukebox should be required reading for all 'trainspotters' and 'collectors' and fans of Captain Pugwash! >>>>there is a nice little fanzine statesid calle 'sound collector' they do alot of indepth interviews with indie nobodies and a few key players from time to time all written by unabashed fans Do they have a website? There are small press alternatives in the UK too, such as Sound Projector (editor Ed Pinsent is now reviewing for The Wire too, no really), Adverse Effect (which is very much set up in opposition to the perceived hegemony of The Wire) and Noise Gate (which is too expensive and never features Lesley Judd). Then there are all the websites full of reviews and the like. The best I've found are The Brain and Motion Reviews. Personally I've given up on the mag editing lark in favour of websites and writing for other people as I really can't be bothered with the utterly tedious business of trying to break even selling the thing. Besides, Keith Chegwin's criticism fees were eating me out of house and home. Websites are so much better in that respect! Will it get the mill wheel turning? Graeme PS. How was the Takemura gig? ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 16:37:40 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B(ruce) In a message dated 7/16/01 10:21:10 AM, RLynn9@aol.com writes: >In >Esse all the way through in one sitting? through headphones of course :o) this came up once before in discussion, but anyway, i think the cd is quite beautiful. it also makes a great accompaniment to reading 45-50 (or 85-90) idealcopy emails. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 09:00:14 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] re:Symptoms of "Well, er..." Graeme bin listening to:- >>elph - 20' to 2000 http//www.brainwashed.com/coil That would be Emmerson, Lake, Palmer, right? but who is the 'h' ? A ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #217 *******************************