From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #216 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, July 16 2001 Volume 04 : Number 216 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Headphones ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' ["I] [idealcopy] Ideal Copy; A Grand Mute Proof... ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image [RLynn9@ao] Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT - New Order track [BillyD ] RE: [idealcopy] The Frivolity Inherent [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' [J] [idealcopy] Fwd: more boring pop music... [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] ["Jan J Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems ["ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B >My vote's for 'Welcome To The Pleasuredome' and the >two cds Vince Clarke & Martyn Ware released (actually >recorded specifically for headphones). >I know I'll catch hell for this... you're not kidding, bill... i think it's great that 'subjectively', no matter how 'bad taste' us Brits get we can rely on our cousins across the pond to blow us out of the water!!!!!! my vote goes to 'the first letter' only cos i can't think of anything else and i'm a 'lo-fi' enthusiast anyway!!! cheers, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:01:27 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] old & new Paul wrote :- >.......saw the new new order vid on MTV2 today. bit more rock than republic >but sounded pretty promising on a first listen. nice vid too.p already said elsewhere, that i think the vid only has an initial 'surprise value', the track itself is a grower but it's hardly 'Procession' is it?!?! how could it be though.... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 21:24:35 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Headphones - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Can I start another thread here ?.What album transformed itself the most (or > just seemed better to listen to) with headphones on ?. First one that springs to mind would be Chrome's Half Machine Lip Moves, three quarters of which is a phenomenal album, which was still throwing up the occasional surprise several years after the first listen. Not necessarily better with headphones, but more intriguing. I'm unfortunately in a situation where the playing of music through the speakers at the sort of volume I would like is not an option, me being a good neighbour an' all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:02:30 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' - ----- Original Message ----- From: Graeme Rowland > Speaking of Coil, as Ian was > >>>I know it should be the music we discuss, but I > knew a guy at University who knew Coil (or had met > them) in the mid-late eighties. He claimed they were > real extreme misogynists. > > This might be so, but without any documentary evidence > of their extreme misogyny this is just a rumour isn't > it? Perhaps, or maybe even an incorrect opinion formed by the friend in question. His story was that as they'd be drinking in a pub or some such, they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman came in / walked by. This could have bases other than misogyny. It's all secondary source stuff so who knows? I don't listen to Coil's records, although I do have some of their stuff knocking around on tape. But this is for no other reason than I have too little free time (I genuinely envy the people on the list who seem to have the time and resource to listen to vast quantities of music on a daily basis) I don't hold the rumour against them. Rumours should not indeed diminish the effect of the music. But that's an intersting point - possibly previously debated. If, for the sake of argument, the rumour *were* true, would this at least *alter* - if not diminish the effect of their records? (A wider question than the Coil speculation) Heard anything by Sutcliffe Jugend? Where were they coming from? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:18:10 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: [idealcopy] Ideal Copy; A Grand Mute Proof... In an article in today's Sunday Times Travel section there's an article by Jeremy Lazell on places of interest and beauty around the world which are only reachable by foot, including... "Nemrut Dag, Turkey How far? 4hr through arid, but beautiful, hills. Why bother? Nemrut Dag is a giant hill-top tumulus flanked by mighty statues of classical gods and the local king, Antiochus I, in whose name all this was erected. The heads fell off when an earthquake hit some time during Nemrut's 2,000-year history, and now gaze solemnly out over the eastern Turkish plains. It's grandiose and it's spectacular - to sit alone among these heads is extraordinarily moving. Having it to yourself is not easy; minibus convoys from nearby Kahta toil up for sunrise and deposit tourists at the cafe just below the summit for the 20-minute hike to the top - not a good time to be here. But there is a way to have it all to yourself - walk. How? Walk 11 miles along a little used track from Eski Kahta, to the west, or Tepehan, to the north, and arrive after the sunrise set have gone. The cafe below the summit has a dormitory. Tayf Tours, in Kusadasi (00 90 256 612 0935) can assist with transport, hotels and a guide should you want one." There's also a photograph of the toppled stone heads. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 04:48:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image Graeme wrote: > Could it be that all pop is art? > Not all art is pop. Oh God, not the art debate. I was, admitedly, doing a mass generalisation, but I spent five years at art school in various forms, and not one person could _ever_ accurately say what is 'art' and what isn't. I personally found the 'everything is art' argument both tedious and irritating. I think the closest anyone got was that things that are more 'artistic' are often more 'with concept'. (And before anyone talks of totally non-conceptual art, that in itself is a concept. Or something.) No wonder I got so disillusioned with the bullshit. >>>>A more recent example would be C+M; 'Bastard' and particularly 'My Pet Fish' fall squarely into the 'pop' bracket, > They also fall roundly in the 'art' bracket, surely? Whatever. I personally would say they are more 'pop' than 'art'. Maybe for me, 'art' requires more 'experimentation' away from the norm, whatever that is (hence my comments about Immersion and Symptoms). I guess the whole 'art' argument is actually totally redundant, in much the same way the classification of genres is: everyone has their own ideas about what it should be. > It's all art really isn't it? "Cauliflower". :) Craig got a bit muddled in comparison >>>>Must be good PR. Should be "a band like the Strokes comes along at least three time in a (short) lifetime" on account of the fact that they sound like Pavement/The Fall. > They sound nothing like either of these > bands, who distinguished themselves and > don't often sound that similar despite what > you might have read via the acid > tongue of MES. Uh, it's all subjective, isn't it? Admitedly, I have far more Fall than Pavement, but there are similarities. Regardless, Strokes definitely sound very Fall, although maybe in the same way Elastica sound very Wire. Bland? Maybe, but not Hear'Say bland. I like the single anyway... To be honest, I'm not afraid to admit that I like some mainstream(ish) pop stuff, which seems to be the opposite stance to a lot of people on this list -- yes, I own records by Depeche Mode, Bowie, New Order, Undertones, Moby, Human League (well, one record) and I don't care -- wahahahahahaha! Erm. > And Wir have never sounded like Robert > Palmer either. It must be Graham's vocals > that made you think of him surely? Are you trawling IC back issues or something? (Note that in the review, I make this a personal point, not a description of the sound as such...) However, I still say 'Sexy and Rich' is in some ways reminiscent of Robert Palmer. I've had three other people (only one of whom knew Wire) say _exactly_ the same thing. It's some of the general sound of the whole thing (voice, drums, bass, but not guitar or atmospherics) rather than any one song in particular. My mother used to be a big RP fan before she discovered Swim~ (seriously), so I have the memories... Either way, the version on 'Catch Supposes' is a hell of a lot better than 'Vien'... By the way: anyone else notice how 'In Esse' is basically the same as Hear'Say's new single? Uncanny... :) C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 08:55:08 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B What's wrong with the 2 Vince Clarke/Martyn Ware cds? they are great! and besides Vince is da man!!!! Robert (also from across the pond) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 08:13:15 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] oposing art graeme postulated: > Could it be that all pop is art? > Not all art is pop. ahhh the age old 'what is art'gument i propose thet there is 'art' and there is 'craft' craft may be art, but not nesessarilly are always involves some element of craft, but good art does not require good craft and superb craft guarentees nothing but a well finished object accidents have little place in craft, with the rare exception where the accident is the desired result (in which case, was it truly accidental?) 'pop' on the other hand is a matter of preference and there is a world of diversity there too early oon a sunday morn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:15:59 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image >>>>>>To be honest, I'm not afraid to admit that I like some mainstream(ish) pop stuff, which seems to be the opposite stance to a lot of people on this list -- yes, I own records by Depeche Mode, Bowie, New Order, Undertones, Moby, Human League (well, one record) and I don't care -- wahahahahahaha! Erm. <<<<<<<<<< hahahaha, right on brother!...actually i own everything Depeche Mode has ever done......everything by Bowie from Space Oddity to Let's Dance....everything by New Order (except the Weatherall mixes of Regret..which i am hunting for)......some Undertones, some early Moby, and everything by The Human League (i love early Human League best of all..Travelogue and Reproduction!!)....and i don't care who laughs..I love that stuff and i still listen to it all the time.....was listening to Speak and Spell on the old walkman the other day while cutting the lawn........ "I take pictures...photographic pictures" Robert This Ain't No Disco Lynn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:25:24 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B >What's wrong with the 2 Vince Clarke/Martyn Ware cds? they are great! and >besides Vince is da man!!!! >Robert (also from across the pond) i was actually talking more about the Frankie lp... i haven't heard the Clarke/Ware cds... i suspect i wouldn't like them an educated bet... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:00:46 -0700 (PDT) From: BillyD Subject: [idealcopy] OT - New Order Track Does anybody still have the link for the new NEw Order track? I seem to have deleted it... Cheers, Billy - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > >>>>>New Order - early demo's and gigs<<<<<< > > by the way, is this something special that i should > know about? any word on > when the new single or lp comes out ????? > > thanks, > Robert ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:01:09 -0700 (PDT) From: BillyD Subject: [idealcopy] OT - New Order track Does anybody still have the link for the new New Order track? I seem to have deleted it... Cheers, Billy - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > >>>>>New Order - early demo's and gigs<<<<<< > > by the way, is this something special that i should > know about? any word on > when the new single or lp comes out ????? > > thanks, > Robert ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:04:30 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The Frivolity Inherent > Daft Punk in particular have done this and made a > classic LP of modern > Disco that will be durable in the same way as Chic > were. Daft Punk sound like the Buggles. End of story. 8-) John Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:13:27 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My Favourite Shop... When I worked at the Cartel I used to deal with record shops from as far South as Tewkesbury to as far North as Eastern Bloc. (And the one indie shop on the Isle of Man!) I can't speak for Bolton but I can say that Rhythm in Camden wouldn't take a cheque off me. Boo. My favourite shops: 1) Probe, Liverpool. 2) Picadilly, Manchester. Worst shops: 1) Ainleys, Leicester and HMV, Wolverhampton - I think I'd better be careful what I say here but neither store would win any awards from the Campaign for Racial Equality. 2) Any Our Price - anyone who gets thru their training regime is an android. John - --- Mark Short wrote: > Tim wrote: > > > > My all-time favorite record shop is X-Records in > Bolton, Lancashire. > > > > > So whats yr favourite shop folks? > > > > I'll nominate Driftin of Cheltenham. It closed about > 15 years ago, but had an > excellent selection of stuff form the margins of > music. Lots of jazz/improv, > also a lot of Ralph Records product. And the owner > used to give me a discount > cos I took weird stuff off his hands. The only place > I've seen that compares is > Rhythm Records in Camden. Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:22:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph S Subject: [idealcopy] re: Albums + Headphones B On Bastille Day, BillyD wrote: ///My vote's for 'Welcome To The Pleasuredome' and the two cds Vince Clarke & Martyn Ware released (actually recorded specifically for headphones). I know I'll catch hell for this... /// I'll probably catch hell for this one - Record 1 of Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, which somewhere contains The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging. That was my first experience with headphone rock and may contain a little more emotional weight than say Dark Side or Pleasuredome which came much later for me. dwei pfennigs from Joseph _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:34:32 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image I couldn't agree with Craig more. Back in the 70's a famous local artist (L.A.) by the name of Ed Ruscha (he did the gas stations a la Warhol's Campbell's soup can) had a showing at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art. Among his "art" (which included painting with food) he had installed on the walls several flattened cardboard boxes that had contained things shipped to him; the boxes had a packing label with his address on it. But far worse was a small framed piece about 4" by 4" that had written on it something stamped with a rubber stamp. In fact, what it said on it was this: Art Made With A Rubber Stamp. Well part of me laughed my ass off; after all, someone had payed good money for that! The other part of me saw it as Ed giving us all the big middle finger (which would have made an infinitely more interesting piece) and made me realize the art game is mostly a load of crap. It's simpleminded but, yes, I'll stick to what I like. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:25:08 -0400 From: Creaig Dunton Subject: [idealcopy] Coil/Sutcliffe Jugend Ian B wrote: > > This might be so, but without any documentary evidence > > of their extreme misogyny this is just a rumour isn't > > it? > Perhaps, or maybe even an incorrect opinion formed by the friend in > question. His story was that as they'd be drinking in a pub or some such, > they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman came in / walked by. This > could have bases other than misogyny. It's all secondary source stuff so > who knows? > I've always been under the (wrong?) impression that both Peter and John from Coil were homosexual, thus making the misogyny an even somewhat odder concept, using traditional stereotypes of course :) > Heard anything by Sutcliffe Jugend? Where were they coming from? Ha ha...ironic thing is that SJ is probably _the_ most misogynistic seeming band I've heard (even moreso than Whitehouse), and I've always heard that Kevin Tomkins quit Whitehouse in the mid 80's to get married and have kids, then later resuming SJ and Bodychoke with Paul Taylor. Ever since reading that I have this image of them recording in the basement, and Mrs. Tomkins coming in, yelling at them to turn it down, and them sheepishly complying ;) - -- Creaig Dunton http://www.2fmp.com <-2nd Floor Mafia Productions http://fpc.hypermart.net <- False Prophet Campaign ICQ: 5417270 AOL: Creaig ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' Coil are gay aren't they? There is a history of so-called misogyny from gay men towards women - I'm thinking of William Burroughs particularly here. It didn't stop him marrying or - if you read Ted Morgan's biog of WSB - being sexually attracted to women. I think you'd have to delve a bit deeper than assume that Coil were misogynist? A very good friend of mine - - who is gay - has made comments to me that if they were coming from other people I know - who aren't - I would have problems with. Then there's the argument that even if Coil are misogynist does this detract from their music? I personally have a problem with a lot of rock and rap groups for this reason. Confusingly I am very impressed with the philosophy of Martin Heidegger and can't to this day work out why such a great mind could turn to nazism as a political ideology. John - --- Ian B wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Graeme Rowland > > Speaking of Coil, as Ian was > > >>>I know it should be the music we discuss, but I > > knew a guy at University who knew Coil (or had met > > them) in the mid-late eighties. He claimed they > were > > real extreme misogynists. > > > > This might be so, but without any documentary > evidence > > of their extreme misogyny this is just a rumour > isn't > > it? > Perhaps, or maybe even an incorrect opinion formed > by the friend in > question. His story was that as they'd be drinking > in a pub or some such, > they'd hiss viciously and scowl whenever a woman > came in / walked by. This > could have bases other than misogyny. It's all > secondary source stuff so > who knows? > I don't listen to Coil's records, although I do have > some of their stuff > knocking around on tape. But this is for no other > reason than I have too > little free time (I genuinely envy the people on the > list who seem to have > the time and resource to listen to vast quantities > of music on a daily > basis) I don't hold the rumour against them. > Rumours should not indeed diminish the effect of the > music. But that's an > intersting point - possibly previously debated. If, > for the sake of > argument, the rumour *were* true, would this at > least *alter* - if not > diminish the effect of their records? (A wider > question than the Coil > speculation) > Heard anything by Sutcliffe Jugend? Where were they > coming from? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:07:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: more boring pop music... NB: FWD at Ian's request: - --- ian jackson wrote: > From: "ian jackson" > To: wireviews@yahoo.com > Subject: more boring pop music... > Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:38:44 +0100 > > craig wrote :- re The Strokes... > >Uh, it's all subjective, isn't it? Admitedly, I > have > >far more Fall than Pavement, but there are > >similarities. Regardless, Strokes definitely sound > >very Fall, although maybe in the same way Elastica > >sound very Wire. Bland? Maybe, but not Hear'Say > bland. > >I like the single anyway... > > as someone who's taken to The Strokes in a fairly > big way > and has both singles and a gig recorded... > when i said they were the new Pavement a while back, > i meant 'cred-wise', i hear very little Fall or > Pavement, > i hear The Modern Lovers, Iggy & The Stooges, > Television, > Lou/Velvets, even a bit of The Saints...strains of > other > things which is maybe where the Fall/Pavement > elements come in > ...i'm prepared to be disagreed with!!!! > > ian.s.j. > ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:48:29 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems Just heard these two for the first time. Thought I share my opinions as the 'Wireviews' on these LPs are rather less than illuminating. The sleeve of CS is terrific. Bruce had a hand in it I see. Unlike the earlier LPs or Bastard the music is difficult to place. The only reference point I can think of is Earwig (remember them?) as it has that same tinkling, repetetive dreamy feel of their LPs ( but It predates that band by several years). The overall feel is icy and windswept. Only the rather upfront vocals prevent it from being pretty much an Eno-esque ambinet record. The dronier tracks remind me of Spirtualized more orchestral moments. I agree with Wireviews point that perhaps more effort went into the arrangements than the songwriting but I do like the interplay between Colin and Malkas voicings and the string laden instrumentation is impressive particularly on But I and the title track. Not at all bad actually. It Seems is less sucessful I feel. The pre-set synth sounds are rather twee and place it firmly in the late 80s. (Digital Piano/Brass and Strings from that era do sound awfully tacky). Track 1 reminds of Earwig again! (wonder if they were Newmanoids?) Similar icy, Europop feel like CS, and again the songwriting is pretty er....understated. Pretty short on chord changes, choruses and Colins vocal range is shown up as rather narrow as it is thrown into stark contrast against the minmal backdrops. Better Later than Never is a fairly pleasant bit of late 80s electro pop, but elsewhere the songs are paper-thin and the music isn't sufficiently interesting enough to compensate. So how were these records recieved at the time? Was the title of Commerical Suicide a self-fulflling prophecy? Can't imagine It Seems would have made much impact at the height of Acid House. Anyone recall any reviews? Were they just ignored? (Presumably the nearby Wire releases hogged most of the attention) _________________________ The Kids It Seems http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:57:44 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Here the announcement of an ideal Pink Flag copy evening in Vera, Groningen, Netherlands. Should be there the 8th of august. 5 men are trying to bring back the Pink Flag-emotions. They are playing the complete album on their way. In their 2 weekly magazine is a kind of top 20 with on no 1 The Dirtbombs - Ultraglide in Black. But what interest me is a record called Girls can tell by the Spoon on a label called 12XU. What kind of label is this. Does someone know this company? They are from Texas the magazine says.Is there anyone from Texas on this list? coz E is where you play the blues, Can anyone recommend the Best TG live recordings? Anyone want to share Coil favourites? There was a moment you could buy all TG live recordings at once on cassette (k7) in a kind of box. Compare it a little with The Merzbau Box last year. All I can remember now. I did like the Heathen Earth-album. Probably one side studio/other side life. I am not sure. Don't have TG or Psychik TV albums here. My favourite Coil The LSD cd Love Secret's Domain is one of the best I ever heard. Music made in so many layers So you hear new sounds when listening for the 2312 time. Great record. But also their first Scatology and Horse Rotorvator were good and ground-breaking that time. In my opinion they became lazy and made to fast records. Maybe now RLynn mentioned already they are on their way back The Music to play in the Dark 2 is good. I am curious which way they will go. The announcement to release something with Stockholm based Ivan Pavlov COH next autumn I already heard, it sounds weird, but interesting. There is one thing. They mostly have a dark side in mind. In fast words they are searching on a transcendant way. Wire in opposite on an immanent way. So I know what I like music of last weekend Brian Eno & Peter Schwalm - Drawn from Life Brian Eno - Apollo Medium Medium - The Glitterhouse Shockheaded Peters - Not Born Beautiful Clock DVA - Beautiful Loosers Oren AMbarchi - Insulation Pink Flag JD - One of the 4cd's from the box because I don't have records of Herman Brood. Herman Brood: Dutch example of rock'n roll animal, jumped from the roof of the Hilton Hotel in Amsterdam last week. SETI - Above Black Is your mind free, empty or split? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:22:58 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Commercial Suicide It Seems Tim wrote :- >Just heard these two for the first time. CS competes with Not To as my fave CN lp. did a kind of 'Scouse Sebadoh' version of Their Terrain a few years ago with a couple of mates!! (as i've mentioned on the list before...) yes, It Seems has dated a bit... personal tie No. 2... wrote/recorded a song that nicked lyrics from Round & Round...in '92, i think... anyway the man himself did get to hear it, and much to my delight he commented that he liked the guitars on it, and as a bass player (and playing everything on the demo myself)... i was even more chuffed!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:04:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil/Sutcliffe Jugend << I've always been under the (wrong?) impression that both Peter and John from Coil were homosexual, thus making the misogyny an even somewhat odder concept, using traditional stereotypes of course :)<< They're a couple. Have been all along. >> Heard anything by Sutcliffe Jugend? Where were they coming from? Ha ha...ironic thing is that SJ is probably _the_ most misogynistic seeming band I've heard (even moreso than Whitehouse), and I've always heard that Kevin Tomkins quit Whitehouse in the mid 80's to get married and have kids, then later resuming SJ and Bodychoke with Paul Taylor. Ever since reading that I have this image of them recording in the basement, and Mrs. Tomkins coming in, yelling at them to turn it down, and them sheepishly complying ;) >> Nice thought. I always thought the Sutcliffe Jugend name was a joke. The whole whitehouse thing was quite laughable really - it seemed like an attempt to capture the TG fans who were in it for the gas chamber/child molester/castration film/shock aspects. Saw Whitehouse live on a couple of occasions. William Bennet in a big black leather coat striking poses and yelling "NEW BRITAIN!!!" or some such over two white noise synths. And 15 years later Tony Blair goes and revives thw whole concept. Without the synths. Mark Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 00:43:57 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] this weekend i mostly listened to.... Some 2nd and third runs throughs for: Peter Hammill - What, Now? (gets betterand better) Symptoms - Apathy (a proper listen this time and this is a corker. Echoes of some Cluster/Rodelius in there, but that's just me free associating) Guru Guru - UFO A.R and Machines - Echoes of the Green.... (truly awesome compilation of virtually overlooked Krautrock/Kosmische musician. This has been played 3 times in a row. My thanks to Charles for this one. Brilliant) Laraaji - Shiva Shakti Groove (Laraaji with beats. Nice one) ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #216 *******************************