From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #215 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, July 15 2001 Volume 04 : Number 215 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes ["ian jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Tim & Graeme: From Daft Punk To Duchamp in one post ["ian] [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' [=?iso-] Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B [BillyD ] [idealcopy] 6-4 in the absence of... ["ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes ><< by the way, i saw in the weekend Guardian that the > singer's mum (or dad) is the founder of the Elite model > agency, which maybe explains the press hype. >> ...>and the guitarist is called Albert Hammond Jr. Presumably the progeny of Albert "Free electric band" Hammond, who these days is a major league Big Pop Hit songwriter - so would know what buttons to push within the record companies. yeah, a positive delight for all Half Man Half Biscuit fans... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 17:58:24 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tim & Graeme: From Daft Punk To Duchamp in one post Tim wrote :- >Nah, Its great pop music. Hook laden, Spectoresque-prodiuction, instant pop >thrills. Whats wrong wiv that? I bought both CDs from Tescos along with >some Fajitas and a bottle of wine. Like the food, the CDs were >luxurious,easy to digest and best enjoyed before the sell-by date. i must admit to a great admiration of Basement Jaxx' singles 'Rendevous' and 'Red Alert' (or was that the lp?) the one before Rendezvous anyway...yes it's throwaway pop music but that's what you need sometimes innit? (cue Fall tune...) >I bloody love SFA and I think some people on this list might/do enjoy them >a lot. I can best sum their sound up by the music they played at their >after-show club night a few weeks back: Neu (twice!), Surfs-Up era Beach >Boys, The Fall, Hardfloor, Os Mutantes, Pavement, De La Soul, Velvet >Underground, Aphex Twin, Mogwai, Boards of Canada i've always held back a bit from really really digging SFA totally...the lp's i was never that impressed with, but i've liked nearly every single they've done, the chorus to the new single is a killer (having heard it a few times on MTV2). the playlist from that after-show club confirms why i tend to give them the thumbs up, sounds like a fucking great night out to me... >Tellingly, my University tutor wanted me to write my dissertation on Beuys. >To his dismay I wrote a really daft one about Jamie Reid, Neville Brody and >Peter Saville. It was probably pants but somehow I still got a pass. hmmmm, Beuys' stuff never did anything for me either, amazingly i find i connect better with Damien Hirst and Jake & Dinos Chapman, it's a personal thing though innit...? met Jamie Reid once, nice guy, heart in the right place, understands the 'Scouse' psyche maybe better than any 'outsider' i've met, but at the end of the day an unreconstituted hippy, nothing wrong with that per se, just not me!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:26:55 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] 'I'll show you an image, what does your image mean?' Craig said he didn't give a shit >>>>I think Wire has always tried to bridge the gap between 'art' and 'pop', but has usually ended up veering wildly between the two. Arguably, this gap was closed by Warhol & the Velvet Underground... Could it be that all pop is art? Not all art is pop. >>>>In musical terms, '154' is a good example of this. >>>>A more recent example would be C+M; 'Bastard' and particularly 'My Pet Fish' fall squarely into the 'pop' bracket, They also fall roundly in the 'art' bracket, surely? >>>>but Immersion, perticularly when combined with the video, falls into being rather like some of the stuff I've seen at EMAF, Bandits-Mages, etc (Euro arts/media festivals). In fact, the Symptoms video wouldn't look out of place there either. They only really fall into their own brackets... >>>>Maybe the problem is simply down to compartmentalisation. There isn't a problem. My point was really perhaps just that Wire 'fit in' more, for example, with the other artists (not) performing at the cancelled Vernacular event (Phill Niblock, Pan Sonic, Coil) than they do with the bands Tim listed. >>>>In other words, Wire (and solo stuff) is involved in 'creativity' in all its guises, but with a very obvious musical, or at least audio bias. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit whether Wire comes out with something that's overtly 'pop', or overtly 'art', so long as it's good. The problem with labels is that it gives an expectation, hence why the likes of Duchamps, Wire, and so on are/were so uncomfortable with being seen as something at 'face value'. The problem with labels is not only expectation but that different things are understood by different people by different labels. It might be an unsatisfactory description, but the label 'art rock' gives a better vague idea of what Wire do than 'pop'. It's all art really isn't it? Speaking of Coil, as Ian was >>>I know it should be the music we discuss, but I knew a guy at University who knew Coil (or had met them) in the mid-late eighties. He claimed they were real extreme misogynists. This might be so, but without any documentary evidence of their extreme misogyny this is just a rumour isn't it? Sounds a bit like the 'Boyd Rice is a fascist' myth to me. Does the fact that Peter Christopherson was in 2 bands with women prior to Coil count for anything? John Balance was also briefly in PTV early on. Anyway, this doeslittle to diminish the effect of their records if you listen to them. Craig got a bit muddled in comparison >>>>Must be good PR. Should be "a band like the Strokes comes along at least three time in a (short) lifetime" on account of the fact that they sound like Pavement/The Fall. They sound nothing like either of these bands, who distinguished themselves and don't often sound that similar despite what you might have read via the acid tongue of MES. Maybe it should have read 'A generic dated r'n'r band like the Strokes gets lauded by the music press every few weeks when they are desperate to dress sprats in sauce'? They certainly rate high on the blandometer, and the Fall had to undergo Extrication to even register on scale. And Wir have never sounded like Robert Palmer either. It must be Graham's vocals that made you think of him surely? I'd be very surprised if there was any music Palmer had been involved with that sounded much like 'Sexy & Rich'. Were you reminded of any particular Robert Palmer song? Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:41:17 -0700 (PDT) From: BillyD Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones B My vote's for 'Welcome To The Pleasuredome' and the two cds Vince Clarke & Martyn Ware released (actually recorded specifically for headphones). I know I'll catch hell for this... Cheers, Billy - --- HeySean@aol.com wrote: > well this will be popular album that is most > transformed through the use > of headphones are you ready? > > For me it has been and apparently always will be > Jethro Tull: Thick As A Brick > > very close second is Wir: The First Letter > > ok you bastards! do yer worst!!! :) ===== . ./\/\/\. [ . . ] /\ -- -Get Well Sammy! (R)SOT Ltd. http://depechemode.acmecity.com/freestate/54 http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:09:39 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] 6-4 in the absence of... maybe Breitner... re : Conno, at first he had a good few kicks at me, until i took him off his feet with a slide tackle one afternoon, since then he's been sound as a pound lar... have quite a few laughs during a game with him now. weird for me that most of the scouse element come from Kirkdale or nearby. maybe i shouldn't ask but do you know which paper and when the 'big feature' is?? bought the Guardian as usual today nowt...Observer tomorrow? or Guardian next week? should be this week to make it look like you're on the case...ie, PLAYING LONDON THIS WEEK!! anyway, too busy with Cait and her new braces (tooth kind) the trauma of a teenager just beginning...and Dan as Augustus Gloop (Bavarian accent)...'Chocolate, chocolate...' a part made for him really... regards Sea (C?) Dog Black. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:19:19 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 6-4 in the absence of... sorry folks, this was meant for elsewhere... as you can probably tell...oooppppss!!!!!! ian.s.j. >From: "ian jackson" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] 6-4 in the absence of... >Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:09:39 +0100 > >maybe Breitner... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 16:11:39 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] old & new got a copy of minimal compacts "lowlands flight" lp , very good stuff. more ambient / few vocals compared to the standard minimal sound. it was part of a crammed series called "made to measure" , this was vol 10. the inner sleeve says that #9 was to have been an lp by colin newman and john bonnar ; anyone know if this ever got recorded. .......saw the new new order vid on MTV2 today. bit more rock than republic but sounded pretty promising on a first listen. nice vid too.p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 19:28:38 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] todays listening..... ...i strange day for me indeed...took a 45 minute road trip to a small country town (to go to a weekly flea market) to meet one of my boyhood idols: Harley Race the 8 time National Wrestling Alliance World Champion.....YES! i was/still am a pro wrasslin' geek....from 1973 to 83 this man was the champ! he was my hero! got to hang out and talk with him for an hour or so......anyway, on the way down i listened to: B-12 "Electro-Soma" (warp records) Outlander "Aural-Scent" (r&s records) Black Dog "Bytes" (warp records....truly a classic in electronica) Chris and Cosey "Skimble Skamble" (an overlooked cd by an underrated duo) Exquisite Corpse "Dream Night Dance Music" (Psychick Warriors Ov Gaia offshoot) Psychick Warriors Ov Gaia "Ov Biospheres and Sacred Grooves" (screw Paul Van Dyk and yer Sasha and Digweed (UGH) this is TRUE trance music...and great for driving to!).........any opinions on the above???? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 01:06:16 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] more of todays listening..... well, last day or so... Scritti Politti - early singles & Peel Sessions (a hearty hooray to the Bursa dude...!) Faultline - Mute/Si Begg Buckfunk 3000 remix 12" Tipsy - Flying Monkey Fist Boards Of Canada - Music Has The Right To Children Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks... 310 - Prague Rock 12" Fripp/Eno - Venture, The Essential... Itchy Genius - The Dunderhead EP (top notch UK drum & bass from '97) Pavement - Shady Lane (Japanese Import) New Order - early demo's and gigs (again, hooray to...) now then, now then..... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:54:51 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more of todays listening..... >>>>Scritti Politti - early singles & Peel Sessions<<<<< i am curious...what did early Scritti Politti sound like? i have only heard the things from Cupid and Psyche on.... >>>>Boards Of Canada - Music Has The Right To Children<<<< isn't this cd great? i can listen to it over and over....Boards are the real deal >>>>Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks<<<<< I just thrashed about the apartment to this the other day..i'm sure my neighbors didn't appreciate it but bollocks to them as well.....PROBLEM PROBLEM PROBLEM Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 20:57:23 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more of todays listening..... >>>>>New Order - early demo's and gigs<<<<<< by the way, is this something special that i should know about? any word on when the new single or lp comes out ????? thanks, Robert ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #215 *******************************