From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #214 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, July 14 2001 Volume 04 : Number 214 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #213 ["wiremailorder.com" ] AW: [idealcopy] 11 German Favorites that Julian Cope wouldn't [Woerner Fr] Re: [idealcopy] art pop ["Jerry @ Vane Recordings" ] [idealcopy] errata ["Cambra, Robert" ] Re: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to.... ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT - Bill Nelson [Felton Frog-Mon ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Tim & Graeme: From Daft Punk To Duchamp in one post [Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes >craig wrote :- >Must be good PR. Should be "a band like the Strokes >comes along at least three time in a (short) lifetime" >on account of the fact that they sound like >Pavement/The Fall. >Having said that, I still quite like the single, even >if I've heard it all before... agree entirely...i've just got both the singles through rough trade mailorder and they're really enjoyable. i'd waited until i heard the Peel session (which i think has the best version of 'Hard To Explain' so far). i've been listening a lot to the NME/Carling gig from February, and the recorded versions sound strange in comparison, far more lo-fi than i'd expected. anyway, i think we're all agreed that they're not exactly 'world-beaters' or breaking new ground, just a very good band with equally fine influences and a brilliant PR machine. by the way, i saw in the weekend Guardian that the singer's mum (or dad) is the founder of the Elite model agency, which maybe explains the press hype. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:44:58 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #213 >favorite german music/musicians? hmm is that like favorite tapeworms or >favorite bouts of dysentery? oh I'm sorry...did I damn a whole a whole >nation? Forgive me...you see..I'm Irish and apparently a huge asshole! charles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:44:44 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] art pop I concur with Craig's summary of the Wire clan's creativity. Is it art? Is it pop? Does it matter? Brian Eno once summed his life up as such: Attended art school - HIGH ART Joined Roxy Music - LOW ART Left Roxy and went to solo career - LOW ART Made Video Installations exhibited in galleries - HIGH ART The fact that Eno's career has swing between these two perceived polar opposites is an indication of how ludicrous labels can sometimes be. The same can be said of Wire's members. They have all created 'pop' music and 'art' music of equal calliber and had art shows. Creativity is creativity is creativity. ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:12:58 +0200 From: Woerner Frank Subject: AW: [idealcopy] 11 German Favorites that Julian Cope wouldn't >-----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: wiremailorder.com [mailto:shop@wiremailorder.com] >Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Juli 2001 05:01 >An: idealcopy@smoe.org >Betreff: [idealcopy] 11 German Favorites that Julian Cope wouldn't > > >5. Grobschnitt - Been called the German Yes, but that really >isn't fair. >Prog Rock that doesn't sound like Prog Rock. Ballerman is the classic. Hehe, being a Kraut myself and being old enough to have seen most of the groups live in the seventies/eighties I can tell you that Gobschnitt were definetly NOT the German Yes. They had always lots of circus-like acting ( firebreathing actors etc.) on stage, a mix of early punk attitude and freak show elements ( Residents anyone ? ). They wore costumes ( magicans, clowns, etc. ) and had spoken word intermezzos during the set. They weren't as serious as Yes. FrankfromBavaria ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:33:44 +0100 From: "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] art pop If Roxy was 'low' I wonder where he places his production work with the likes of U2 and James? Does the fact one considers one's 'work' worthy of being 'exhibited' qualify one as a 'high' artist? Do let me know > Brian Eno once summed his life up as such: > > Attended art school - HIGH ART > Joined Roxy Music - LOW ART > Left Roxy and went to solo career - LOW ART > Made Video Installations exhibited in galleries - HIGH > ART ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:14:50 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to.... all three Harmonia albums....last week it was all three Neu albums...tommorrow it will be the three La Dusseldorf albums.....great stuff... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:25:42 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to.... Channel Light Vessel...Bill Nelson and Laraaji..hmmm sound good ,,,maybe i should investigate......i wish someone would reissue On a Blue Wing by Bill Nelson on cd..i still really like bits and pieces of things like The Summer of God's Piano...Catalog of Obsessions...Chamber of Dreams....Pavilions of the Heart and Soul...Sounding the Ritual Echo.....all those cds packed with like 20-25 tracks of short instrumental pieces....a lot of those songs frustrate me though because if they had been fleshed out and longer than minute and half or two minutes they might have been truly wonderful.....I'm also a big fan of his more accesible stuff like the aforementioned On a Blue Wing and Quit Dreaming and Get on the Beam or Vistamix...... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:18:54 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] art pop >If Roxy was low... > > Brian Eno once summed his life up as such: > > > > Attended art school - HIGH ART > > Joined Roxy Music - LOW ART > > Left Roxy and went to solo career - LOW ART > > Made Video Installations exhibited in galleries - HIGH > > ART maybe he means 'low' as in, easy available (to reach)... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:26:28 -0400 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] errata What I meant to say Wednesday--it would make more sense-- was : "I saw Young Marble Giants open for Cabaret Voltaire in Berkeley in 1980" NOT 1990.--Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:37:30 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to.... Robert wrote (re: Bill Nelson) >I'm also a big fan of his more accesible stuff like the aforementioned >On >a Blue Wing and Quit Dreaming and Get on the Beam or Vistamix...... heard last week at work 'Chimera' and 'The Love That Whirls'... hadn't heard for maybe 12 years or more, brought back a lot of memories of people i hadn't seen for the same amount of time... still remembered most of the lyrics and the tunes much to my surprise... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:51:28 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] art pop re : Eno, >>maybe he means 'low' as in, easy available (to reach)... >> >>ian.s.j. > >sorry, i WAS trying to say, easily available (within reach) >...as in supermarket shelves??? >serves me right for trying to do emails and >keep two kids, a rabbit and a dog in check at the same time... > >ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:40:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Felton Frog-Mon Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Bill Nelson Hey all- - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > Channel Light Vessel...Bill Nelson and Laraaji..hmmm > sound good ,,,maybe i > should investigate......i wish someone would reissue > On a Blue Wing by Bill > Nelson on cd.. If you go to http://www.billnelson.com you can find info about his albums. I think that the Channel Light Vessel albums were recently rereleased and should be readily available. There is also a link to a petition to get Sony to release '..Blue Wing' on CD. That was one of my favorite albums of his. RJH ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "May all your ups and downs be between the sheets." - -Tom Waits - ----------------------------------------------------------- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:13:11 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes Ian, << by the way, i saw in the weekend Guardian that the singer's mum (or dad) is the founder of the Elite model agency, which maybe explains the press hype. >> and the guitarist is called Albert Hammond Jr. Presumably the progeny of Albert "Free electric band" Hammond, who these days is a major league Big Pop Hit songwriter - so would know what buttons to push within the record companies. The New York Oasis, frankly. No bad thing at this point - I saw Oasis play a little pub in London called the Water Rats in 1994 - all attitude and rudimentary playing, but catchy of tune.... Mark (looking forward to the Strokes' coke-addled, overblown 3rd album.....) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 02:56:56 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Tim & Graeme: From Daft Punk To Duchamp in one post Before this can I just say that Graeme is a swell guy. Not only did he give me a very nice present today, but his frequently challenging e-mails give my lazy brain a much needed exercise. I hope this will postpone my inevitable descent into senile dementia in my 70s. Top Geezer! Graeme wrote: >>Robert was sickened by Tim's dodgy summer listening >>habits >>Both BJ & DP are such fluff to my ears that they make >>absolutely no impression on me at all. Nah, Its great pop music. Hook laden, Spectoresque-prodiuction, instant pop thrills. Whats wrong wiv that? I bought both CDs from Tescos along with some Fajitas and a bottle of wine. Like the food, the CDs were luxurious, easy to digest and best enjoyed before the sell-by date. I like to indulge in a bit of fluff once in a while. >>Super Furry Animals are a different kettle of fish, >>even though I've heard plenty of their songs and can't >>recall the tune to a single one. They set my teeth on >>edge in the same way that Oasis do. I can see why they wouldn't be to Graemes taste but I must point out that SFA are infinitely more enlightened than the pig-ignorant Liam & Noel. I bloody love SFA and I think some people on this list might/do enjoy them a lot. I can best sum their sound up by the music they played at their after-show club night a few weeks back: Neu (twice!), Surfs-Up era Beach Boys, The Fall, Hardfloor, Os Mutantes, Pavement, De La Soul, Velvet Underground, Aphex Twin, Mogwai, Boards of Canada. Tailor made for yours truly in fact! I am a bit biased cos Gruff used to live with my mates in Chorlton when he was at Manchester Poly, and my mate Jez played piano on 'God Show me Magic'. But they're still great. >>To me, the only thing Tim was listening to that >>warrants sensible comparison to Wire is Autechre. But >>who am I to demand sensibility? I wasn't comparing Daft Punk/SFA/Basement Jaxx to Wire. I was trying to justify my more populist/fluffy tastes against my adoration of Wire....I'm not the only person on this list who likes some very un-Wire like stuff. At least I don't like f**king Phil Collins! >>As for hardcore punk being noisy, sweaty, nasty - >>these words could also be used to describe the recent >>Autechre gig at Manchester Rockworld. True, twas not pretty. They are best seen in a more sterile environment. Autechre do not work in a drug/club environment despite what their management may think. I saw them at The Band on The Wall and they weaved an intricate web of gossamer tones and crisp rythmic clicks and splicks before a sell-out hushed audience of hopeless devotees...high on nothing more than Guiness. >>I agree with your point & I could be mistaken but I >>think what Tim was getting at was not that he >>implicitly valued the music of *now* above music from >>prehistoric eras, but rather that for him there >>usually has to be a perceived contemporary relevance >>to his listening. He does like the Beach Boys... Sort of true. Maybe I'm just a self-confessed fashion victim (like Mr Newman) but if i've x-amount if money in my pocket then I'd rather get something brand new, cos with older stuff chances are someone else has got it and you can go round to their house and listen to it/copy it! When I do buy old stuff, its timeless stuff like Wire, Neu, Can, Kraftwerk, Brian Wilson etc. I don't like to look back really. I don't want to look back at my 20s and think I spent that time buying up the music of the 60s and 70s. In my limited free time (when not working or composing) I want to hear and understand the *here and now*. >>The mark of great >>music is that it kills time, shuts it down! Now *that* I agree with wholeheartedly. >>Colin's comments on Robbie Williams also hold true for >>Wham! who Tim was trying to draw a light hearted Wire >>comparison to a few months ago. It perhaps comes down >>to high art versus vapid cabaret? It does, but I think my personal music tastes comes down to either High Cabaret or Vapid Art. SFA are definitely High Cabaret. Chris Morris makes Vapid Art. Or maybe its the other way round. >>Michael makes a brilliant comment! >> >>>>Depends on how serious you think Marcel Duchamps >>was. This excludes Robert (by his own request) of >>course. I think Marcel had a sense of humor, but was >>pretty serious overall. I think that's true of Wire's >>front-line as well. On reflection, On Returning you are correct. They meant it/mean it maaaaan! >>skinhead entomologists witnessing document had little >>knowledge of high art shenanigans. Yeah but what the f**k did Wire expect? Hello we're not going to play anything off 154, we're going to piss around with some bread and an illuminated Goose. Who's a clever boy then? D&E is a very interesting record but by the end it sounds as though the band are tired with kicking their own audience....does it not? "The Doldrums" >>Another Wire (well certainly Lewis & Gilbert) >>influence was Joseph Beuys. Tellingly, my University tutor wanted me to write my dissertation on Beuys. To his dismay I wrote a really daft one about Jamie Reid, Neville Brody and Peter Saville. It was probably pants but somehow I still got a pass. And Therein lies the difference. Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Mr Suit. _________________________ The Kids Say Give a Wham Give a Bam Don't give a Damn. http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:13:38 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tim & Graeme: From Daft Punk To Duchamp in one post Tim, I've said this before, but Wire were desperately unlucky with the audience on the night of February 29, 1980. Most of the serious London raincoat brigade (who would have enjoyed the art aspects of the D&E show) were either at the Lyceum (watching Joy Division) or the Scala (watching Throbbing Gristle) that night....leaving the sad old punk's not dead tossers to see Wire. Had they played a week later the reaction might have been totally different.... Mark << >>skinhead entomologists witnessing document had little >>knowledge of high art shenanigans. Yeah but what the f**k did Wire expect? Hello we're not going to play anything off 154, we're going to piss around with some bread and an illuminated Goose. Who's a clever boy then? D&E is a very interesting record but by the end it sounds as though the band are tired with kicking their own audience....does it not? "The Doldrums" >> ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #214 *******************************