From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #213 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, July 13 2001 Volume 04 : Number 213 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #212 [Michael Flaherty ] [idealcopy] Art pop [Wireviews ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 17:50:23 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #212 >Michael commented sensibly >>>>>But to place a value on something based on >time--because it's new OR old, doesn't make much sense >to me. > >I agree with your point & I could be mistaken but I >think what Tim was getting at was not that he >implicitly valued the music of *now* above music from >prehistoric eras, but rather that for him there >usually has to be a perceived contemporary relevance >to his listening. He does like the Beach Boys ... My mistake. >What have you been listening to recently Michael? Gunter Christmann and Mats Gustafsson: one to (two) Thurston Moore: TM / MF ProjeKct One: Live at the Jazz Cafe Michael O'Shea Phill Niblock: Touch Works >Michael makes a brilliant comment! >>>>>Depends on how serious you think Marcel Duchamps >was. .... Well, borrowed somewhat from Bruce Gilbert ... ;) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:19:35 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Daft Basement Sickens Punk! In a message dated 12/07/01 20:04:50 GMT Daylight Time, crackedmachine@yahoo.co.uk writes: > To me, the only thing Tim was listening to that > warrants sensible comparison to Wire is Autechre I have to admit after buying the Cornfield CD, Autechre are demanding listening but very rewarding.It just does not connect on first listening but gradually,gradually..listen after listen each track begins to hang together. Headphones give the CD another dimension as well. Can I start another thread here ?.What album transformed itself the most (or just seemed better to listen to) with headphones on ?.I usually do most of my eyes wide shut listening on a personal stereo in bed ! Off the top of my head: Kraftwerk - Autobahn Wire - Document & Eyewitness Red Lorry Yellow Lorry - Paint Your Wagon Severed Heads - Since The Accident Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells (!!) Stereolab -Peng ! I've also been meaning to get around to listening to Faust but never have.Didn't they have a cheapo album out in the early 70"s The Faust Tapes for about 50p like Gong's Camembert Electric ? Chris NP. Spring Heel Jack - Casino Parts 1 & 2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:36:39 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Faust Favourites >>>>Which is the one essential Coil album?<<<<<< in my opinion...i think Musick to Play in the Dark 1 and 2 are the best they have done and fairly recent so not too hard to get.....their earlier stuff tends to be dark and somewhat gothic with a lot of creepy imagery and lyrics about paganism and scatology and what not....but the newer stuff is very good..still kind of dark but much more listenable.....they have an album coming out on Trent Reznor's (NIN) label sometime soon..but i am scared of what it may sound like!....Astral Disaster is another good release.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:01:12 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] 11 German Favorites that Julian Cope wouldn't 1. Achim Reichel - that he's not in the uber elite of German court is a damn shame. his early seventies thing was A.R & Machines, and it was so far out... it was too far in. Hard to find, expensive if you do, but worth every cent. A CD compilation Echos from Time of the Green Journey can still be found. 2. Gunter Schickert - thing Silo are the shit? think again after you give his Uberfallig CD a listen. 3. Kraan - mostly instrumental band, from four guys who could really play. I imagine that's a bad thing nowadays. got more "fusion" before turning into full blown VH1/Jazz 102 FM band. try Kraan, Wintrup and Weiderhoren. 4. Schicke, Fuhrs & Frohling (SFF) - more germans that could really play. One of them had a twin neck Les Paul/Rickenbacker. Ain't that fucking cool! Prog rock that excited everyone from Zappa on down. Only one CD out, has everything they ever did. 5. Grobschnitt - Been called the German Yes, but that really isn't fair. Prog Rock that doesn't sound like Prog Rock. Ballerman is the classic. 6. Hoelderlin - first album is dreamy folky, but essentially a different band from then on. Next three albums are prog rock to rival and surpass anything out of the UK, including the best english vocals from a German bands (and that's saying a lot). Hoelderlin, Clouds and Clowns and Rare Bird. 7. Klaus Kruger - was drummer for TD and Iggy pop. Made two records for Klaus Schulze's IC label. sehr komisch. try Collection CD 8. Harald Grosskopf - another one of those drummer/sequencer guys, but excellent Berlin school music. Synthesist CD is in print. 9. Michael Hoenig - his eponymous 1977 solo album Departure from Northern Wasteland is more Tangerine Dream than Tangerine Dream. Classic example of Berlin school on Kuckuck. 10. Peter Michael Hamel. Not the Brit, but equally so. Minimal and populist. Wrote a good book to. Try Let It Play on Kuckuck. 11. Conrad Schnitzler - has released more music than anyone could ever listen to. Just remember your Farbe: Schwarz, Blau, Rot, Grun, Gelb, and anything on the Art Gallery label from France. And finally a plug for Cyclone by Tangerine Dream. The album that made Tangerine Dream a household word... in Germany! In short, TD do rock music. If you can get this album, you're on the right track. If you can't, listen until you do. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:20:15 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Albums + Headphones well this will be popular album that is most transformed through the use of headphones are you ready? For me it has been and apparently always will be Jethro Tull: Thick As A Brick very close second is Wir: The First Letter ok you bastards! do yer worst!!! :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:21:13 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Faust Favourites Holger Czukay did something other than Cool In The Pool? imagine that.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:24:17 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 11 German Favorites that Julian Cope wouldn't favorite german music/musicians? hmm is that like favorite tapeworms or favorite bouts of dysentery? oh I'm sorry...did I damn a whole a whole nation? Forgive me...you see..I'm Irish ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:08:31 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last night i mostly listened to.... Eno / Schwalm - Drawn From Life (third time round and sounding better and better) Channel Light Vessel - Automatic Channel Light Vessel - Excellent Spirits (forgot just how good the last two were. Not played for a few years and still some suprises and exquisite melodies. Laraaji on top form... as ever) ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:19:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Strokes "a band like the strokes comes along once in a lifetime," Must be good PR. Should be "a band like the Strokes comes along at least three time in a (short) lifetime" on account of the fact that they sound like Pavement/The Fall. Having said that, I still quite like the single, even if I've heard it all before... C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:28:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Art pop "Like Colin, Bruce & Graham perhaps, Duchamps was never entirely happy with being accepted as an artist at face value. He set out to destroy art, but only recontextualised it." I think Wire has always tried to bridge the gap between 'art' and 'pop', but has usually ended up veering wildly between the two. In musical terms, '154' is a good example of this. A more recent example would be C+M; 'Bastard' and particularly 'My Pet Fish' fall squarely into the 'pop' bracket, but Immersion, perticularly when combined with the video, falls into being rather like some of the stuff I've seen at EMAF, Bandits-Mages, etc (Euro arts/media festivals). In fact, the Symptoms video wouldn't look out of place there either. Maybe the problem is simply down to compartmentalisation. In other words, Wire (and solo stuff) is involved in 'creativity' in all its guises, but with a very obvious musical, or at least audio bias. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a shit whether Wire comes out with something that's overtly 'pop', or overtly 'art', so long as it's good. The problem with labels is that it gives an expectation, hence why the likes of Duchamps, Wire, and so on are/were so uncomfortable with being seen as something at 'face value'. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #213 *******************************