From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #209 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 10 2001 Volume 04 : Number 209 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] the whispered year [kevin eden ] [idealcopy] Meridians cassettes. ["Mr. P. Kulawec" ] [idealcopy] Re: drum machines ["david mack" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: drum machines ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] OT - The Strokes ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT - multimedia sport ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] it's hot.../when i was 6 ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] hox [kevin eden ] RE: [idealcopy] listening to POP...what was the middle part? ["stephen gr] Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays ["stephen graziano" ] Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays ["Jerry @ Vane Recordings" ] [idealcopy] RE: [ideal copy] Re: drum machines ["Eric Klaver" ] [idealcopy] OT: download new new order track [Rain19c@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] The Frivolity Inherent [Tim ] Re: [idealcopy] My Favourite Shop... [MrSodium@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 02:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] the whispered year Some discussion on this AC Marias tracks. The track does exist on 'Meridians', released by Touch Tapes. It was included in the Discography in the Wire book on the assumption that Mr. Gilbert was involved. However, it was later pointed out that he was not in the room at the time and Angela had done this at home, on her own. Later discographies therefore have it removed. Needless to say the track would not have been out of place on the AC Marias album, although the recording quality is certainly not as hi-fi. ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:08:37 +0100 (BST) From: "Mr. P. Kulawec" Subject: [idealcopy] Meridians cassettes. >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:56:37 EDT >From: RLynn9@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! > >thank you for the info...BUT did this person happen to mention if it actually >was on the Meridians 2 cassette from Touch records?...let me know ! > >Thanks for the help! > >Robert > Hi I've missed the start and middle of this discussion, so this may have been said already. The track 'The Whispered Year' is actually on the Meridians 1 cassette (2nd track, side A). It is a proper track with, if I recall correctly, wordless vocals from Ms Conway. No idea if there is any direct Wire involvment. You could ask Touch directly. peter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:12:08 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] CUPOL on eBay there's the Cupol 12" up on eBay, search for RARE WIRE. charles ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 06:39:29 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: drum machines In my youth i was in a pop band which consisted of guitat, bass, synth and a drum machine, Tom. Tom was an able performer, but he did not react well when one or more of us fluffed a change. Matter of fact he didn't react at all. But his greatest shortcoming was his utter inability to hold liquor. Our bass player got excited mid-set, spun around, and tipped his beer so that it poured from the top of his cab directly into Tom, who sputterred and died an ignomous death. That evening was spoiled and Tom , even after drying out for a week developed an ungortunate tendancy towards spontaneous total amnesia every couple weeks thereafter. Oh - and OMD were indeed the nads. Dazzle Ships is a highly undervalued property indeed. If they had quit there the world would be wondering what greatness would have followed, instead of knowing that it faded to pablum (albeit well crafted pablum) > In my teens OMD for me was the nads. I can't believe that anyone could > criticize a pop band for their inability to improvise. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:53:23 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: drum machines > In my youth i was in a pop band which consisted of guitat, bass, > synth and a > drum machine, Tom. > Tom was an able performer, but he did not react well when one or > more of us > fluffed a change. > Matter of fact he didn't react at all. > But his greatest shortcoming was his utter inability to hold liquor. > Our bass player got excited mid-set, spun around, and tipped his beer so > that it poured from the top of his cab directly into Tom, who > sputterred and > died an ignomous death. > That evening was spoiled and Tom , even after drying out for a week > developed an ungortunate tendancy towards spontaneous total amnesia every > couple weeks thereafter. Alright - I get your drift. What you're saying in other words is that the problem with machines being their predictable uncreative selves is due to the fact that they can't take drugs, or even worse - that they are so heavily influenced by drugs to the extent that they can't function properly. I have to admit that the symptoms you describe, that of a total amnesia every few weeks, is not dissimilar and sometimes even much better than other human musicians I knew. I bet Tom never forgot his effects and cables (and only found out about it 5 minutes before the gig was due). I can also assume that you never caught him backstage failing to find the right way out of the dressing room. So, at the end of the day, machines can be far more reliable than humans (sorry, I meant to say musicians which is less or more than human, whichever way you wanna look at it). giluz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:43:30 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - The Strokes Anhy L wrote :- The Strokes -'all recorded works' does this mean you have a copy of the NME/Carling London show from February? i've downloaded it from the nme.com site but can only get a one-channel recording without stereo enhancement from the soundcard i have. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:44:24 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - multimedia sport AndyL wrote :- Afraid the closest I could get was last night with Wimbledon on one telly, Tour de France on another and cricket on the radio. A day for the heroic Brits, what with the lions in the morning. i'm saving this one to show my wife. the accompanying line will be... 'there you are darling, you think i'm bad...'!!!! 'Heroic Brit Losers' maybe... ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:41:32 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Goodnight Vienna... Robert wrote :- NO WAY!!! ULTRAVOX with Ure (and with Foxx) were and still are great listens!! two of the worst gigs i've ever been to in my life? Ultravox, first tour with Ure (hey i'm a poet...) in Derby and John Foxx, solo, in Liverpool. dire, pretentious, 'post-modern' clap-trap. i still enjoy the odd listen to 'Systems Of Romance', mainly for Robin Simon's guitar it has to be said. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:40:55 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Flaming Lips Tim wrote :- Just listening to the Flaming Lips Four-CDs at once Zaireeka at the moment. One CD is playing through the PC, the other through walkman & speakers, the other on the strereo and 4th is on the Playstation through the TV and making patterns on screen. It sounds great! Good to have all my equipment joining forces to play one Album. Anyone else enjoyed this one? Phillip Jeck is obviously entering the wider public consciousness!!! time to drop him Graeme!!!!! (joke) not aware of this one Tim, when did it come out? what's the story with the format? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:42:56 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] it's hot.../when i was 6 re : Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! i have sympathies with Tim's listening habits reflecting the weather conditions, i tend to play more Dub and 'World' music when it's sunny, but also feel the pull to go the opposite way and play 'Unknown Pleasures' and 'Closer' rather a lot (must get round to doing my long planned cover version of The Undertones 'Here Comes The Summer' in the style of 'Atmosphere!). when i was 6, i was most probably listening to all the Beatles lp's up to and including 'Sgt. Pepper's...' and The Monkees 'Headquarters', as well as my dad's Sinatra/Bennett/Como/Bassey/ (there was no getting away from Cilla Black either...) plus the wider family's 7" singles like, Bobby Vee 'Rubber Ball' Jimi Hendrix 'Hey Joe' Little Eva 'The Locomotion' Bill Haley & The Comets 'Skinnie Minnie' (at 78 rpm) The Shadows 'Apache/FBI/Wonderful Land/' Cliff Richard & The Shadows 'Move It' (still one of the best rock & roll singles ever made!) Swinging Blue Jeans 'Hippie Hippie Shake' Gerry & The Pacemakers 'I Like It' all that '60's Merseybeat' stuff... as well as the odd 'Irish Rebel Songs' lp i seem to remember... ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 09:44:32 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays << NO WAY!!! ULTRAVOX with Ure (and with Foxx) were and still are great listens!! ////for me the ure career peaked with "ghosts of princes in towers" , unsurprisingly not one of his compositions. from then it was downhill all the way with one pretentious dirge after another. i see he has a new solo album out now which i'm sure will be up to his usual standard. most new romantic stuff was pretty derivative but ultravox managed to be completely humourless as well as the usual pretentous/unoriginal stuff typical of big label turns from that era. and OMD were stunning! especially the first 3 albums...why is it always so fashionable to bash the electronic/new wave/ new romantic groups of the 80's? ////well they are pretty slow moving targets. but pretty irresistible to be honest. so many chart acts of that era peddled sort of watered down bowie/kraftwerk tunes combined with horrible fifth form poetry class lyrics. i certainly didn't go for it then and the timewarped production doesn't make it any more palatable now. sure some of it was naff BUT most of the music from the 90's and certainly 2000 and 2001 is horrible! >> ////"most" music is , was and will be terrible ; the fun's in picking out the good stuff. thankfully the 80's revival doesn't seem to be happening despite numerous efforts so there's at least some taste left in the world.p ps what do you think of atomic kitten then? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:48:30 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OMD live Never saw OMD live but thought they always had a drummer - Dave Hughes in the early days and Malcolm Holmes later on. Of course they may have just bashed syndrums roughly in time to the drum machine, I don't know. According to one of those retro shows they put on Saturday nights for kid-encumbered thirtysomethings to relive their youth by, Paul Humphreys still tours as `Paul Humphreys out of OMD'. They showed a clip of him singing `locomotion', one of their worst songs. At least Andy McCluskey has moved on to, ahem, manage Atomic Kitten. Programme was also remarkable for the Thompson twins admitting that they really weren't all that good and were baffled by their success. How refreshing! OMD have always (or since 1980, aged 14) been a guilty pleasure of mine. I remember when their last single `Walking on the milky way' came on the chart show - pretentious lyrics, daft video, the usual trowelling on of organ on string synth on mellotron - but within 30 seconds I was hooked, and furtively purchased the cassette single (easier to hide) in HMV that very afternoon. That is what is great about music - sometimes, you just can't help it. The b side album contains some gems, IMO, and anyone only familiar with the dodgy stuff (locomtion, secrets etc) might be quite surprised by the like of Annex, I betray my friends and 66 and fading. Does anyone else here like the Associates? I've recently got into Sulk and fourth drawer down in a big way. Another question: as someone who has bought Neu! and Neu75 in the last year on the bootleg CD issue, are these re-masterings really worth having? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 07:34:05 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] hox If it's not already been notified, here it is... again. Interview with EGL and review of Hox. http://www.dma.be/p/ultra/uzine/0110.htm ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:36:29 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] listening to POP...what was the middle part? I saw OMD play "live" in NYC in the early 80's at a club named, appropriately, "The 80s" - it was located on the upper eastside in the 80s. My impression was of silly English boys in overlarge white shirts dancing while their machines did most of the work. They had these tubular keyboard racks overloaded with equipment and everything was synthesised except for a bass player. Most of the time they were using only one hand to play out the melody lines while the program took care of the rest. It didn't strike me as exactly "live". - Steve. G _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:45:07 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays I would be willing to bet that you were born between 1960 and 1966. >From: RLynn9@aol.com >To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com, andrew@lumbard.co.uk, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays >Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:38:08 EDT > >NO WAY!!! ULTRAVOX with Ure (and with Foxx) were and still are great >listens!! and OMD were stunning! especially the first 3 albums...why is it >always so fashionable to bash the electronic/new wave/ new romantic groups >of >the 80's? sure some of it was naff BUT most of the music from the 90's and >certainly 2000 and 2001 is horrible! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:08:09 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays actually, i was born in 1968.....February to be exact....under the sign of Aquarius with Pisces tendencies....lol ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:25:52 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Flaming Lips > Tim wrote :- > Just listening to the Flaming Lips Four-CDs at once Zaireeka at the moment. > > > not aware of this one Tim, when did it come out? > what's the story with the format? > This, unfortunately out of print, CD was a four-disc experiment from the Flaming Lips released in 1997. There's a review here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=A13220r8ay48x I think they're planning on releasing it in 5.1 Dolby on DVD shortly. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:30:18 +0100 From: "Jerry @ Vane Recordings" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays I say enough of this 80s bashing! The likes of OMD and Ultravox were good BECAUSE they were humourless and pretentious. There's a lot of fogeyism going on round here blah blah backing tapes blah blah lack of improvisation blah blah commercial. The likes of the above along with New Order / Visage / Soft Cell / Simple Minds / Fashion / Depeche Mode / whoever else were trying to do something that sounded good, that carried a certain cachet, that created a certain mood. Bollocks to 'real' instruments and musicianship. Bollocks to valid 'art'. That was their art. The bottom line has to be whether or not any of it sounded good and that, as always, is subjective. Take me apart p.s. atomic kitten are shit - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: <"RLynn 9"@aol.com>; ; Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays > << NO WAY!!! ULTRAVOX with Ure (and with Foxx) were and still are great listens!! > > ////for me the ure career peaked with "ghosts of princes in towers" , unsurprisingly not one of his compositions. from then it was downhill all the way with one pretentious dirge after another. i see he has a new solo album out now which i'm sure will be up to his usual standard. most new romantic stuff was pretty derivative but ultravox managed to be completely humourless as well as the usual pretentous/unoriginal stuff typical of big label turns from that era. > > > > and OMD were stunning! especially the first 3 albums...why is it always so fashionable to bash the electronic/new wave/ new romantic groups of the 80's? > > ////well they are pretty slow moving targets. but pretty irresistible to be honest. so many chart acts of that era peddled sort of watered down bowie/kraftwerk tunes combined with horrible fifth form poetry class lyrics. i certainly didn't go for it then and the timewarped production doesn't make it any more palatable now. > > sure some of it was naff BUT most of the music from the 90's and certainly 2000 and 2001 is horrible! >> > > ////"most" music is , was and will be terrible ; the fun's in picking out the good stuff. thankfully the 80's revival doesn't seem to be happening despite numerous efforts so there's at least some taste left in the world.p > > ps what do you think of atomic kitten then? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:04:50 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays I (of course) second that emotion!!! ...I could not agree with you more! I fail to understand how Ultravox, OMD, etc..could be called humourless and pretentious (which they were most of the time) but how some of these folks making "electronic soundscapes" and sheer noise are not?...Don't get me wrong, I am very interested in Zoviet France, Cabaret Voltaire, NON, Coil, Throbbing Gristle, Pan Sonic, Flaming Lips, Merzbow,musique conrete, Krautrock in general etc.and of course Dome, Bruce Gilbert, He Said, etc. but they are all very pretentious and mostly humourless (with the exception of the Wire guys).....the Depeche Modes, the Visages, the Human Leagues, the OMDs, The Fad Gadgets, and John Foxxs of the world took a chance and tried to create something new....i love all kinds of stuff and i think there is plenty of room to appreciate the new wave/new romatic/futurist/synth pop stuff...besides it was just plain fun... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 13:05:57 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays oh yeah, and Atomic Kitten ARE indeed shit..... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 13:18:24 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! Zamai Lehmanni is sort of a crossover SPK album, no way as purely frightening as the earlier titles, but more of an atmospheric peice conjuring the Byantine empire and the mysterious East. After that they make the crap disco/dancefloor albums that fans of BMovie, OMD, and Midge Ure Ultravox should like. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:07:24 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays I am very interested in Zoviet France, Cabaret Voltaire, NON, Coil, Throbbing Gristle, Pan Sonic, Flaming Lips, Merzbow,musique conrete, Krautrock in general etc.and of course Dome, Bruce Gilbert, He Said, etc. but they are all very pretentious and mostly humourless (with the exception of the Wire guys) ///////now TG were perpetual wind-up merchants , surely that's obvious? my definition of pretentious is when artists puff themselves up to the media as much more important/clever/original than they really are; most of those bands you mention have too low a profile to really be criticised in that way. i mean the last thing you could accuse bruce of is blowing his own trumpet excessively. > OMDs, The Fad > Gadgets, and John Foxxs of the world took a chance and tried to > create something new....i love all kinds of stuff and i think there is > plenty > of room to appreciate the new wave/new romatic/futurist/synth pop > stuff...besides it was just plain fun... > ///// i think the standard criticism made of new romantic stuff was that it wasn't remotely new , just a commercialised bowie/kraftwerk mix cashing in on old ideas. ok , most of those acts made a couple of good singles (except midge) but it just seems really shallow and dated now. the one act whose albums i did buy were soft cell actually , i was still a bit much of a punk rocker in 81/82 to be very interested in the likes of b-movie or visage. maybe the best thing to come out of new romanticism was talk talk , crap in 81 but great by 88. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:40:48 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays wind up merchants or not..Throbbing Gristle "puffed" themselves as the only important group around..they defined pretentious...They often said (of other groups) that a band has a moral responsibilty to portray themselves in a honest way in their music....hmmmm, having said that, i find it easier to believe that Midge Ure, Steve Strange, Marc Almond etc. WERE in fact the type of person their song portrayed them as....than to believe some of the shock nonsense of Gen....i mean come now, is it easier to believe in the positive songs (of hope) of say, Midge Ure (see Dear God) OR the songs of someone who is keeping someone's panties in a little bisquit tin?..or the chronicles of a major burn victim known as The Hamburger Lady?......hahahhahahahha i love both types of pretentious twits...but just don't ignore the pretentions of others...the only difference is the subject matter of their pretentions and the ludicrous way they dressed.....hahahhahaha Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:55:36 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays ...and Talk Talk happend to be great all the way through ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 00:32:36 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays In light of the current line of discussion I have been listening to loads of my 80's stuff recently eg the chameleons talk talk tears for fears bauhaus thomas dolby (golden age of wireless) young gods kraftwerk OMD Portion Control SPK MBM (storm the studio) Caberet Voltaire Renegade Soundwave and midWire! and I've come to the conclusion that nostalgia ain't what it used to be - whatever we listenend to then sounds good today because its not being rammed down our throats. It seems to me that today there is such a dizzy array of music on offer we couldn't buy it all anyway - artists seem to release new stuff weekly. Anyway that's that said Jez > From: RLynn9@aol.com > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 15:55:36 EDT > To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com, jerry@vane-recordings.com, idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays > > ...and Talk Talk happend to be great all the way through ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:12:17 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: [ideal copy] Re: drum machines david said: Dazzle Ships is a highly undervalued property indeed. If they had quit there the world would be wondering what greatness would have followed, instead of knowing that it faded to pablum (albeit well crafted pablum) ///////////// Agreed. It's the only one other than Architecture and Morality that I listen to from beginning to end ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:10:30 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] My Favourite Shop... My all-time favorite record shop is X-Records in Bolton, Lancashire. I've made pilgramages there since my schooldays. (it used to be Bootleg central till the crackdown). Always been a good place for Wire back catalogue & supplied the bulk of my wire stuff (including hard to find Peel Sessions, Behind the Curtain etc) . They used to stock most WMO stuff and they've still got Behind The Curtain, Desmond Simmons, Wir-vien as well as all the regular stuff. I went there on Saturday and bought a deleted Creation video comp. with two MBV promos on it for a tenner, a couple of XTC things and So & Slow it goes CD single. The tatooed behemoth behind the counter was baffled by the Wir single and I could hear him cursing me from the stock room...."Can't find this fookin single...whats 3 I R when its at home...". The staff are, and have always been clueless heavy metal/hardcore rave fans (though someone was obviously sussed enough to file Simmonds with Wire at some point). So expect no friendly advice unless you want Blink 182. However their cluelessness has a bonus as they have historically bought at least two of whatever (UK Indie Distributors) Cargo/Pinnacle/Rough trade had in the van and never stock check (other than having a crazy everything half-price everything sale every few years) hence they have shelves groaning with back-catalogue..... the complete works of Sultans of Ping FC, EMF, Kingmaker, Carter USM et al are still filed on the same shelves they've been for the last ten years, labelled at 1992 prices and unsold. They probably have every Gorkys Zygotic Mynci, Fall & Half Man Half Biscuit CD ever made. They have a scarily huge section entitled 'Dance and Soul' which covers ever genre of dance from gabba techno to Susumu Yokota...but I'm sure every CD Richard H Kirk has ever made is in there somewhere, filed under whatever pseudonym he was using at the time! They bought so many copies of Kirks 'The Number of Magic' that for a while you got one free with any Warp CD! Lots of bootlegs dotted around the collection as well. And they have a bit of a thing for Heavy Metal dolls. Was tempted to buy Spinal Tap dolls but they looked a bit shoddy. It is a provincial, poorly managed treasure trove that has survived the arrival of HMV, caused the nearby Virgin megastore to 'downsize' and I love it! So whats yr favourite shop folks? _________________________ Spunky Backpack. Clarky Cap. JessopJessopJessop. http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:46:21 EDT From: Rain19c@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT: download new new order track if anyone wants to hear the track "turn my way" from the upcoming new order album "get ready", its at http://pages.cthome.net/mat/ at the moment. billy corgan is singing/playing on it, and doesnt manage to ruin the track *too* much. i didn't like it at first, but its growing on me. judge for yerself ~michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 02:57:13 +0100 From: Tim Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The Frivolity Inherent Graeme Rowland wrote: >Nothing Wire have ever recorded sounded 'frivolous' to >me. What is frivolous and daft about 'Reuters', a >documentary on the siege & destruction of a city? Ohhhh! OK I was wrong! (Here we go again!) >What >time is it on your planet? Its just coming up to 25 O'Clock... Which means it must be time once again to play 'Dodge the Flames!' >What could be frivolous about >a band so quick to communicate they run a song by fast So quick to communicate? Were they really so earnest and serious? I hope not. I prefer Wire's own explanation that they would catch the punks mid-pogo by stopping the song when the text ran out...and if that meant after 30 secs so be it. >in a blink and inadvertently invent a new genre >(hardcore punk)??? Ugh. I hardly think a cool, austere, intellectual, long-trousered tidy-haired band like Wire would have willingly inspired all that testosterone fueled macho stuff. OK I'm generalising again, I don't listen to Hardcore punk (indeed I'm not quite sure what it *is*) but I assume its like Hardcore Porn....ugly, sweaty, noisy and leaves nothing to the imagination. Am I right? >What is more thoughtful about >Mr Suit as compared to say, Stiff Little Fingers >'Suspect Device' or the Slits 'Typical Girls' or >Siouxsie & the Banshees 'Suburban Relapse' or >Buzzcocks 'Boredom'? No idea. As someone mainly into the musical present (and future) I don't listen closely to much else from 77-80, apart from maybe Joy Division, early ACR and Metal Box (and they all sound like they were made yesterday). Why would I want to backtrack to Siouxsie or Stiff Little Fingers when I could be listening to the new Squarepusher LP, Daft Punk, Super Furries, Luke Vibert, Autechre and Basement Jaxx? All I was saying is I felt Wire took the basic yamma yamma yamma of punk and ran somewhere a lot more interesting with it. Its was (deliberately?) provocative comparison but I think the likes of Daft Punk/Basement Jaxx et al now do that with cheesy house music (albeit without the unsettling lyrical content/ultra-hipness of Wire). Thats all. I was trying to imagine someone in 77 picking up Pink Flag and hearing Wire show the way to something beyond the thrash. >12XU is a >blueprint and none of the bands you mention will >likely have such a lasting effect as that track. Daft Punk in particular have done this and made a classic LP of modern Disco that will be durable in the same way as Chic were. >In their own ways, John Lydon & Howard Devoto were as >clever lyricists as Wire were. There are *always* exceptions to the rule, as your letters to The Wire point out. These weren't your average punks though. I wasn't talking about lyrics anyway. I tend not to analyse lyrics too much anyway, I tend to focus on the music. I can't cope with most Hip Hop cos there are too many words! Same goes for Dylan! >Just out of curiosity - where do you get your >information on what 'the kids' listen to? >How many 'kids' do you know? Ahem now you're getting personal!.......I have numerous young cousins/nieces and nephews plus my sister teaches several hundred horrible little scallywags and she knows what they're into. Actually I was wrong, sis says they like Destiny's Child, Hearsay, S-Club 7, Craig David, Rap with lots of swearing and Sports metal. Oh and hard house. The nerdy ones at the top of the class like Radiohead or The Strokes(!) Its not hard to work it out, just watch TOTP or listen to a commercial radio station! >Also it's really not *that* hot in Manchester right >now. LOL! You an expert on metrology now? I think I've lived here long enough to tell whether it was hot on Friday or not! Wahay! _________________________ Spunky Backpack..Clarky Cap...JessopJessopJessop http://www.kidsindestructible.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:56:21 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My Favourite Shop... timrobinson@cwcom.net writes: << The staff are, and have always been clueless heavy metal/hardcore rave fans >> You have to have a staff like this to make the shop worthwhile. If they know what they are doing then you never get the little gems that make the shop worth being a fave--you know, like Orbital's Halcyon ep for $4.00; or an advance copy of Eno's new one for 99 cents. It takes all the fun out of it if they know what they are doing. Just go to any Record & Tape trader location in bloody Baltimooor, hon. By the way, speaking of Bwian, either the editor or the writer of the Baltimore Sun's crossword must be a with-it kinda dood: 19 down on last friday's puzzle was a three letter word meaning "Co-founder of Roxy Music." I'm guessing that was a stumper for most of the xword set. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #209 *******************************