From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #208 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, July 9 2001 Volume 04 : Number 208 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] I'm Six!! And I'm listening to POP! ["Eric Klaver" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:22:04 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] I'm Six!! And I'm listening to POP! I was lucky, I think. I was the youngest of 5 with brothers very much older and very into Bowie, Iggy, Talking Heads, Mott the Hoople, etc. I was 10 in '77. I bought my first vinyl in 80-- a 45 of Whip It by Devo followed by London Calling, Games without Frontiers, Cars, etc. (singles were CDN$1-2 at the time). Living in suburban Canada, this meant that I was alienated quite early for being a "freak" even though most of this stuff was simply pop music (in other places, I suppose). Wire for me came along in 1987 with The Ideal Copy release. That and Bell is a Cup definitely changed my musical life. Eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Tim Sent: July 7, 2001 8:37 PM To: HeySean@aol.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] I'm Six!! And I'm listening to POP! At 23:43 06/07/01 -0400, HeySean@aol.com wrote: >OMG! Six?? (I was 19 when I was began listening to Wire - I don't mind >saying I think it was the perfect age to begin listening to Wire) Ahem, actually I was saying I was 6 when Pink Flag came out. Actually I was wrong, someone said it was 1977?! I was 4 then. I didn't hear any Wire until I saw Eardrum Buzz on The Chart Show (Channel 4) in 1989?(i''m guessing pedants!) Didn't actually get round till buying any of their records till 94 when I bought 154. And I didn't go beyond the EMI stuff until I saw them at the RFH last year, following which I decided they were the best band in the cosmos and I had to have everything they ever did! >Well just >for the sake of the predictable argument...what was happening for the rest of >you surly lot when you were six? We were living in Lincoln living a very modest lifestyle (not that I knew or cared being 6!) while dad was at the Theological College there. We couldn't really afford records but we had Top Of the Pops and listened to Ed Stewarts 'Junior Choice' on Radio 1...woof woof!...and the mighty Dave Lee Travis. My folks had a collection of fairly light classics and weird folky Christian things like The Fisherfolk. (Dont worry this *was* the 70s!, my Dad re-discovered his long lost love of Hendrix, The Who, Kinks, Stones etc in the 80s ) Vividly remember 'Brick in the Wall' with dancing hammers on TOTP, and of course 'I Don't Like Mondays', and 'Video Killed the Radio Star' And we holidayed in Filey that year, and Cars by Gary Numan was everywhere. There were some pretty good tunes around Actually I was probably more interested in the roar of huge white Vulcan bombers taking off from the airfield across the common from the back of our house. They had massive wide wingspans like big paper darts and they made a fantastic noise. >Tonight's Listening Pleasures >Style Council: Our Favorite Shop Had many an argument with Weller Fans that 'Long Hot Summer' craps on anything else Weller has done in the last 20 years! >Incantation: Incantation Surely not those buggers with the panpipes? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:32:32 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! In my teens OMD for me was the nads. I can't believe that anyone could criticize a pop band for their inability to improvise. This was certainly not the point of most "new wave" electronic acts. Listening to live bootlegs, they may not have improvised but they did expand on a number of tunes including she's leaving, julia's song, and even enola gay. In fact, most people like OMD because they saw them live and then started to buy their stuff. BTW, Virgin just released a CD of their B-sides. I highly recommend it esp. for the early stuff. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of HeySean@aol.com Sent: July 7, 2001 9:45 PM To: timrobinson@cwcom.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! regarding OMD: I think I may have mentioned here before about seeing them in Hollywood in '81. Great dancers and tunes and all that....BUT: they were locked into the drum machine and so had ZERO ability to expand upon or improvise any of their music. They might as well of just brought out their albums and played them on the house system and listened to them with the rest of us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:08:25 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! you can't believe anyone would criticize a band for their inability to improvise? well believe it! I have enjoyed OMD for more than 20 years now...my criticism is this: why go on a tour if there is no difference whatsoever between your live and studio performance? Other performers use the recorded material and work through it and around it: Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, Robert Fripp, and so on. OMD failed to do that. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the music; it just makes me wonder what the point of the live performance was. On a Wire-related note: Ex Lion Tamer, touring with Wire, played the entire Pink Flag album note for note replete with the accurate space in between each number. Now THAT was a treat! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:21:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! can't speak for when you saw them or for any of their other shows (though my impressions matched those expressed by another person elsewhere in the u.s. in a zine i used to write for back then), but when they played tempe in 3/82 their songs were considerably faster than the studio versions. dan >you can't believe anyone would criticize a band for their inability to >improvise? well believe it! I have enjoyed OMD for more than 20 years >now...my criticism is this: why go on a tour if there is no difference >whatsoever between your live and studio performance? Other performers use >the recorded material and work through it and around it: Gary Numan, >Kraftwerk, Robert Fripp, and so on. OMD failed to do that. It doesn't >diminish my enjoyment of the music; it just makes me wonder what the point of >the live performance was. On a Wire-related note: Ex Lion Tamer, touring >with Wire, played the entire Pink Flag album note for note replete with the >accurate space in between each number. Now THAT was a treat! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:27:23 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! In a message dated 08/07/01 17:13:14 GMT Daylight Time, HeySean@aol.com writes: > Ex Lion Tamer, touring > with Wire, played the entire Pink Flag album note for note replete with the > accurate space in between each number. Now THAT was a treat! > > > > I'd have loved to have seen that tour. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 14:07:56 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] listening to POP...what was the middle part? I repeat: Listening to live bootlegs, they may not have improvised but they did expand on a number of tunes including she's leaving, julia's song, and even enola gay. To flog a dead horse, I don't think rearrangement (or improvisation) is a pre-requisite for "performing" live. Eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of HeySean@aol.com Sent: July 8, 2001 12:08 PM To: e.klaver@sympatico.ca; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! you can't believe anyone would criticize a band for their inability to improvise? well believe it! I have enjoyed OMD for more than 20 years now...my criticism is this: why go on a tour if there is no difference whatsoever between your live and studio performance? Other performers use the recorded material and work through it and around it: Gary Numan, Kraftwerk, Robert Fripp, and so on. OMD failed to do that. It doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the music; it just makes me wonder what the point of the live performance was. On a Wire-related note: Ex Lion Tamer, touring with Wire, played the entire Pink Flag album note for note replete with the accurate space in between each number. Now THAT was a treat! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:13:00 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays In a message dated 08/07/01 09:24:15 GMT Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > Couldn't agree more. We saw them whilst on holiday in Toronto in '84. A Brit > night! In reverse order Nik Kershaw/OMD/Paul Young and top of the bill Power > Station without Bobby Palmer. Lead vocals were done by the guy from > Animotion. Remember, one hit wonders with Obsession. > Anyway, we enjoyed Omd so much that we had to make that trip to de Montfort > Hall on the next Uk tour. Do you know, if they toured now I might even take > my daughter. ///////sorry but i'm struggling to think of a worse bill of 80's acts than that lot. maybe you could have got the fixx in there too? i'd select OMD and (ure-era) ultravox , against stiff competition , as 2 of the most soulless pretentious acts of that decade. i hated it then and now it sounds totally stuck in that time by virtue of all those horrible naff 80's production effects. yuk.p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 15:14:59 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! In a message dated 07/07/01 22:16:56 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > hello, i have a question for everyone: Is there actually an AC Marias track > on the Meridians 2 compilation cassette from Touch Records?? I have seen > mention of > a track by her called The Whispered Year...is this true or is it just a > case > of her whispering the year the cassette came out? A friend of mine claims > the > latter....ANY help would be greatly appreciated: //////i asked this question to someone "in the know" and was told that this track did exist , but was a solo ac marias thing with no wire involvement. i can only pass this comment on , i've never heard it.p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 15:44:21 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sequenced Bands Tim, >>New Order had the same problem, except when the machines broke down (which in my experience they frequently did!)<< Totally disagree. I cannot think of a band that was less predictable live than NO. Also very little was actually sequenced. Amazingly large amounts if what sounds like pre-programmed stuff was actually played live (eg a drum machine played through a synth etc). Also most of any NO set was pretty much standard gtr/bass/drums/kbds. >>I assume if anyone saw Wire live during the mid 80s or certainly Wir, a lot of the show would have been pretty much pre-programmed on a lot of tracks.<< Wir was certainly programmed, but 80s 4beat combo4Wire (up to 89) was as live as it gets. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:10:36 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] The Frivolity Inherent in 'Looting, Burning, Rape' Tim R opined >>>>The Wire connection? These records sound frivolous and daft on the surface (intentionally?) but are actually very carefully made by very clever people....and I don't know bout 'choo but that makes me think of Pink Flag. Nothing Wire have ever recorded sounded 'frivolous' to me. What is frivolous and daft about 'Reuters', a documentary on the siege & destruction of a city? What time is it on your planet? 'Pink Flag' is also a very intense piece of music. What could be frivolous about a band so quick to communicate they run a song by fast in a blink and inadvertently invent a new genre (hardcore punk)??? >>>>All these acts have taken the current pop trends (House/2-Step/Vocoder-ised disco revivalism/late 70s AOR cheese) and run with the ball and taken it somewhere else, with a bit of a thoughtful ironic slant, just as Wire did with shouty punk (like Mr Suit) circa Pink Flag. Well gimme 'shouty punk' over 'House/2-Step/Vocoder-ised disco revivalism/late 70s AOR cheese' any day. I never read Mr Suit as ironic. Feeling Called Love perhaps, but Mr Suit is a straight ahead diatribe that still rings true, with none of the metaphor so loved by Lewis in later lyrical excursions. 12XU is a blueprint and none of the bands you mention will likely have such a lasting effect as that track. Where is the irony in Lowdown? What is more thoughtful about Mr Suit as compared to say, Stiff Little Fingers 'Suspect Device' or the Slits 'Typical Girls' or Siouxsie & the Banshees 'Suburban Relapse' or Buzzcocks 'Boredom'? In their own ways, John Lydon & Howard Devoto were as clever lyricists as Wire were. Just out of curiosity - where do you get your information on what 'the kids' listen to? How many 'kids' do you know? Yesterday I was mugged by four 'kids' who ran away with no money when an old lady shouted at them! If 'the kids' are into it, then I'm out of it! Also it's really not *that* hot in Manchester right now. Eeeh by gum when I were a lad... I remember the drought of '76, when I was, ahem, 6 years old! Favourite tunes were the themes to Rhubarb, Dr Who & the Wombles & the Beatles Day Tripper & Hard Days Night & The Planets by Gustav Holst. I found the sight of Wizzard & Gary Glitter on Top of the Pops infinitely more worrying than all the one eyed jelly monsters and Daleks Dr Who could chuck at me! Actually I always thought the Cybermen were quite cute... I lived on a small farm in Oxfordshire, watched too much TV and almost died from pollen allergies every summer. Favourite hobbies included murdering flies with a spade, painting, and very amateur astronomy. My younger sister insisted that a pair of fairies called Durd & Ditders lived at the bottom of our garden, near the cess pool, but I could never see them. My most vivid memory is of sitting on a big old trailer watching the sun go down in a red sky full of UFOs. With change he grows! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:38:08 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OMD and holidays NO WAY!!! ULTRAVOX with Ure (and with Foxx) were and still are great listens!! and OMD were stunning! especially the first 3 albums...why is it always so fashionable to bash the electronic/new wave/ new romantic groups of the 80's? sure some of it was naff BUT most of the music from the 90's and certainly 2000 and 2001 is horrible! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:50:55 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] wow! a great day at a convention! i just got back from a record convention here in Saint Louis and man did i score! check these bargains out: Roedelius (from Cluster)- Pink, Blue, Amber cd $2!! Moebius/Plank/Neumeier - Zero Set cd $4 Wire- Manscape (ltd. ed.) cd $3 Roxy Music- Love is the Drug/Sultanesque 7" $1!!! Bryan Ferry- Tokoyo Joe/She's Leaving Home 7" $1!!! Soft Cell - Mutant Moments (original 7" ep) $10 !!!!! Anna Domino - This Time lp $2 B-Movie -Volume 1 Remembrance Days (singles/b-sides compilation cd) $2 Mkultra - Immobilise 12" $2 NON (Boyd Rice) -Rise 12" $3 David Sylvian - Taking the Veil 12" and 7" $4 Japan- Nightporter 7" 2$ I am very happy! can't wait to listen to these tonight! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:54:43 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Speaking of HOT! uh ...i should be so lucky as to live in the UK...here in the midwest of the USA it's 103 degrees Fahrenheit !!!! with humidity it is supposedly 114!!!! this is out of nowhere considering we were enjoying below normal temperatures for June...now all this week is supposed to be in the high 90's...it's usually this hot from the end of June to the begining of September!!! i really hate this! I am actually one of the few people i know that loves cold weather....any body want to offer me a job in the UK so i can move???? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:56:37 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! thank you for the info...BUT did this person happen to mention if it actually was on the Meridians 2 cassette from Touch records?...let me know ! Thanks for the help! Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 18:13:34 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! is anyone out there familliar with the cd by SPK called "Zamia Lehmanni" ???? From what i understand it's nothing like their other releases....anyone care to help me out with this one?.... Robert ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 00:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] last week i was mostly listening to.... Well a week off, glorious sun, plenty relaxation and whats been spinning... Miles Davis - Paraphenalia (live 1969) Miles Davis - The Complete Bitches Brew (disc 2) Burning Spear - Spear Burning (awesome compilation) Culture - International Herb Miles Davis - Someday My Prince Will Come Brian Eno/Peter Schwalm - Drawn from Life Peter Hammill - What, Now? (27th studio solos album and still reinventing the song format) Neu - 1, 2, and 75 (to replace my dodgy bootlegs - still sends shivers) Guru Guru - UFO La Dusseldorf - 1st Other highlights... meet with Paul Rabjohn and Mark Bursa at WMO Central. Shared memories, photos, energy, an afternoon of rarities. Cheers guys. An evening with Gilbert and friends on the 7th. Drinks, laughter and gossip. As ever. over and out ===== kevin eden wmo limited, po box 112, stockport, cheshire, sk3 9fd, uk e-mail: wmouk@yahoo.com web: www.wiremailorder.com "dreams that money can buy" Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 03:42:28 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Its hot! And I'm listening to POP! In a message dated Sun, 8 Jul 2001 5:56:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RLynn 9 writes: << thank you for the info...BUT did this person happen to mention if it actually was on the Meridians 2 cassette from Touch records?...let me know ! Thanks for the help! Robert >> /////apparently so. but i've never seen a copy to confirm.p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 11:19:21 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] OffTopic: Denmark/Norway Anyone know of good clubs and/or record shops specialising in off-mainstream stuff in Denmark/Norway, by any chance? giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #208 *******************************