From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #191 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, June 22 2001 Volume 04 : Number 191 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity ["wiremailorder.com" ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse [John Roberts ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity [Aaron Mandel ] [idealcopy] OT - Prague Rock ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT - trojan horse ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] OT - more Scritti... ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Radio 4 - Legacy of Punk ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - trojan horse [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in ["ray\)\(o\)\(mac" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #188 [Nik ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:13:45 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in never kew why, but colin is also thanked on annabel lwin's 'annabel' album bought it on the strength of that and found very little other strength wonder how it would sound today? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:43:27 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity I read the book (before the movie came out) and now own the DVD. My wife and I quite enjoyed see the premiere as well. Informed and deflated. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:16:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity same here (well, except for the parts about about the wife & the dvd). dan >I read the book (before the movie came out) and now own the DVD. My wife and >I quite enjoyed see the premiere as well. > >Informed and deflated. > >charles > >shop@wiremailorder.com >http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 05:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse - --- PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > dunno if anyone else noticed , but the first 6 > tracks on "behind the curtain" > are credited as being licensed from trojan records. > that struck me as odd > when i read it as i always associated trojan with > reggae. i guess emi flogged > on all the roxy tapes and that's where the > buzzcocks/x-ray spex re-issues > came from. tragic they never did the wire one as the > pink flag tracks must be > in the can still. Oddly enough I remember when the XRay Spex comp came out asking the Revolver rep if there were any plans to release the Wire set from the Roxy. There are a lot of non reggae titles on the trojan label's subsidiaries inc. the Fall's Reciever Records resissues and Light User Syndrome. There are also all the old Clay Records stuff - Discharge, GBH and the like, and some very early very dodgy Madonna tracks. Didn't know Colin had anything to do with them tho. John Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 05:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse tragic they never did the wire one as the > pink flag tracks must be > in the can still. > Paul - does this mean that even with Behind the Curtain there is still a song missing i.e. Pink Flag from that set? John Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, wiremailorder.com wrote: > I read the book (before the movie came out) and now own the DVD. My > wife and I quite enjoyed see the premiere as well. likewise, except for the wife part. i thought the movie was better than the book, actually; Rob's more of a sad bastard in the book, with a failing shop and outdated tastes. someone (maybe on this list?) said that the book casts pop music as "an atavism in the male psyche", while the movie seems to have been put together by pop geeks with fewer insecurities. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:38:21 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - Prague Rock charles, >Subject: [idealcopy] Prague Rock i presume this refers to the 12" reinterpretations of King Crimson, Yes, Genesis and Floyd (was it?) tracks by 310, from 2 or 3 years back?? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:35:01 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - trojan horse re: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,509678,00.html and, yes, Colin Newman is mentioned. I guess if this "Wire" thing doesn't work out, he's still got the record label thing to fall back on... so is this OUR Colin or another?? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:34:16 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - more Scritti... Tony wrote :- I saw this album listed in Record Collector twice as a Japanese release about 12/18 months ago. I placed an order but it was postponed indefinitely. This didn't suprise me as I thought Green had more or less disowned this material and (if he or RT still have the rights) I couldn't see it being legitimately released. If you can track down the other Peel session that's also excellent (as could be their live improvised songs circa 78/9). thanks to you (and Paul?) for letting us know about this, i had no idea about it. maybe all the Scritti fans on this list can keep an eye out for sightings and post them. (this IS train/birdspotting of the highest order isn't it?!?!) Green's a bloody fool to disown early Scrits, IMO, but i suppose it's his perogative...as time goes on though, i find the early Scritti stuff in particular, becoming more and more important/essential/seminal, insert whatever positive adjective you like. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:54:03 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: [idealcopy] Radio 4 - Legacy of Punk Tonight (Thursday) Radio 4 (UK) "Silver Jubilee - The Legacy of Punk" Sunday Times listing "A self explanatory title though it does not disclose that the presenter is Robert Sandall, the Director of Communications for Virgin Records......Thisfour part series pegged to the 25th anniversary of the Sex Pistols, assesses the musical and political impact of the British punk movement. Contributors include Poly Styrene, Siouxie and the Banshees and Jimmy Pursey, names that bring to mind the old adage that there is nothing quite as dated as the recent past." Ian B np Pere Ubu - Story of My Life ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:14:09 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in In a message dated 21/06/01 12:17:17 GMT Daylight Time, dmack2002@yahoo.com writes: > never kew why, but colin is also thanked on annabel lwin's 'annabel' album > bought it on the strength of that and found very little other strength > wonder how it would sound today? > > ////now that stangely ties in to my mailing of a couple of days ago on wide > boy awake. but colin + annabella ; seems an unlikely meeting of minds....p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:21:19 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - trojan horse In a message dated 21/06/01 20:55:37 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > re: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,509678,00.html > and, yes, Colin Newman is mentioned. > I guess if this "Wire" thing doesn't work out, he's still got the > record label thing to fall back on... > > so is this OUR Colin or another?? > ///// sad to say i may have , almost unbelievably , given out some not entirely true info in my previous mailing. somebody now tells me "our" colin is sadly not 10 million quid richer and is not a major reggae entrepreneur. this is a real pity as my latest post-IDM musical project is about to "hit the streets" and i was considering approaching swim for a massive advance now they were so flush. looks like i'll now have to move on to plan B , all will be revealed very shortly. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:24:30 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trojan horse In a message dated 21/06/01 13:59:39 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@yahoo.com writes: > Paul - does this mean that even with Behind the > Curtain there is still a song missing i.e. Pink Flag > from that set? ////// there's a lot more than one track. they put on BTC all the otherwise unavailable tracks from the roxy set , and left off all the pink flag lp tracks. so there must be maybe 7 or 8 more? also i think an encore of "glad all over". probably a track list on "the wire page" at a guess. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:32:38 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re: more thanks to co;in maybe it's the 'other' colin, you know, the one with #10 million mind you , at the time it was not annabella's mind that i wanted to meet ;) never knew why, but colin is also thanked on annabel lwin's 'annabel' album bought it on the strength of that and found very little other strength wonder how it would sound today? ////now that stangely ties in to my mailing of a couple of days ago on wide boy awake. but colin + annabella ; seems an unlikely meeting of minds....p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:03:03 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] post-IDM ; where to now? i can see from recent mailings that a lot of listers are trying hard to keep up with new sounds and get down with the kids. this is of course a commendable approach , but i realise it can be difficult and a little help is useful sometimes. there is a limit to how much stuff anyone can get to hear , and a good dj can maybe point you in the right direction. remember , there is but a fine line between goatee-stroking cool and sad-old-punk-hopelessly-behind-the-times. with this in mind i was pleasantly surprised to be in a birmingham yesterday and see an advert for a club night being hosted by guigsy "ex of oasis". i thought this sounded a fabulous prospect , and were i not so busy i would undoubtedly pop along to see what was happening "on the street" as it were. but sadly i am too busy with my latest project for such frivolities. now all this swim/warp/IDM stuff is all very well , but somebody has to push things forward and look ahead to the next "wave". me and my so-called band ( the DRP) have been hard at work finding out what's happening on the streets (of droitwich) and the consensus is that electro-skiffle is just ready to break through ; remember where you heard this first. basically we're going for a multi-layered electronica backing which retains an organic feel plus some ukelele overdubs. and me rapping. i'm really pleased with the results so far , i was really looking forward to telling you about how we'd blagged our way onto the soundtrack of this new alan partridge/ factory records movie but sadly that deal has fallen through despite "firm assurances" from a so-called contact.. apparently tony wilson thought the music was "interesting" but my rapping was "shite". i obviously thought this was a bit harsh but maybe he had a bit of a point , he particularly didn't like what i'd used as a rhyme for "a certain ratio" (er , anyone think of a better one?). but fear not , we'll be back. we also need a new DAT button-pusher as the last one just did a runner. he's already set himself up as a post-post-IDM band by splicing a DRP demo with some dodgy "norwegian wood" samples and calling it "banjo bhangra". this is of course utter crap and i would give it a wide berth if you have the misfortune to spot a copy. anyone interested in joining this cutting edge project should try to bribe me with something i might be interested in , fame and fortune awaits. anyone got an address for "the wire"? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:54:51 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] New Eno >Having said all that I've just rocked out on King >Crimson 'Live in Mainz' 1973. Awesome performance. >kevin eden This cd alone was worth joining the club for. >From: "giluz" >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Colin and New Eno CD > >Can you elaborate more about this new album? Is it a songs albums or a >soundscapes album? What does it sound like? Who else plays on it? Is it >worth buying? > >giluz I'll try. It's a collection of short works, but I'm not sure if they're songs exactly ... somewhere in between. Laurie Anderson (speakes) one vocal; all other vocals are extremely electronic. J. Peter Schwab collaborates on all tracks. In 1992, Eno released 2 albums, Nerve Net, which was primarily instrumental electronics, and Neroli, which took ambient to a new extreme ... barely moving. Since that time, Eno's major label releases, including this one, have followed Nerve Net, while his label sells a series of VERY ambient pieces from his museum installations. All of it is related to pre-90s Eno, but none of it is just like it. I have no idea if you would like it or not, to be honest, but I certainly do (although it has needed time to grow on me). Michael Flaherty Oh, just remembered: www.drawnfromlife.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:33:41 +0100 From: Nik Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V4 #188 Thank you, Stephen, for this incredibly well written comment. Maybe you should have written that book ;) You include another important aspect disco had in common with punk: people came to punk concerts not to 'pay respect', but to dance and have a good time. Sorry for the late reply. I receive this list on different PCs in various locations, which makes for a nicely fragmented experience. Nik In message , stephen graziano writes >Forgive the snips - A lot depends upon when one wants to say disco began. >The nightclub scene in big cities - esp NYC and LA always had an important >go out to dance to records and not see live bands component to it. i.e. the >early days of the Twist at the Peppermint Lounge. Those type of clubs were >even called discotechs. Of course, as the 60's progressed, music changed >and the simple 2 1/2 min., "it's got a good beat to it Dave (Clark), I'll >give it a 92", gave way to more ambitiously constructed, artier, rock music >as opposed to rock 'n roll. But dancing remained important. Just look at >the 30 year run of American Bandstand on TV, where all of young America >tuned in to learn the latest steps and see the fashion of their peers. And >of course later on we got Soul Train which focused much more on the American >Black R'n B tradition and acts. But disco, primarily was a beat. A simple >2/2 beat that was easy to dance to. Constructed entirely to be danced to >and purposely designed to be (on a certain level) inane enough to allow the >participants in the nightlife to forget about everything and get lost in the >physical sensation of the dance. And that phenomena is as old as human >civilization itself. One can try and construct a musical lineage of disco. >Surely its precendents include Motown and Stax pop heritange. As the 60s >waned, Philly soul and Sly Stone funk both accentuated the romanticism and >the hedonism of the beat experience. The advent of technology allowed for >both the precise repetion of mechanical rythym (allowing trancelike dancing >states) and electronic effects to transport the dancers to otherworldly >planes of there. And of course, being an urban phenomena, disco conoted a >certain set of lifestyle practices and values, all tied into a pretty sexual >freewheeling 70's - even rock was flirting w/ gender bending c.f. NY Dolls, >Lou Reed, David Bowie et. al. - where the the definition of city life - >rubbing elbows with those that are "different" whether that be sexual >orientation, racial, cultural, whatever is more of a given, and in fact a >large part of the appeal of urban culture. America's cities are "blacker" >than the burb and ruralities, and they're gayer and more jewish and more >chinese and more latino and more bisexual and more crowded, which ironically >means that they are more anonymous which allows the individual a certain >larger degree of freedom to navigate the seas of possibility of behaviour >and self expression. By the late 70s, disco and postpunk rock were well >under way to forming a tete a tete as much of what was played in the "rock >discos" - in NYC Danceteria, Peppermint Lounge, Hurrah was, to my ears at >least, indistinguishable from "disco music" except that the predominantly >white kids at those clubs were presented a sanitized version mostly divorced >from the urban conotations of 70s disco - but then again, those clubs were >catering to a "out for a good night" bridge a tunnel crowd - ie. suburban >kids with money to spend, and not the hardcore search for kicks that the >edgier and hipper and urban crowd pursued with a vengence. And disco >morphed into gogo and house and acid and rave and trance, but it's still the >same phenomena - repitious beats, fueled by volume, inscescent physical >motion (fueled as necessary by whatever the chemical fad of the era is) >will allow the participant to reach a level of transcendence that their >daily soulkilling grind denies them. Disco was not an abberation - prog >rock made it a necessity. - Steve. G >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:07:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Hi Fidelity On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, wiremailorder.com wrote: > > > I read the book (before the movie came out) and now own the DVD. My > > wife and I quite enjoyed see the premiere as well. > > likewise, except for the wife part. Actually, I saw the movie with Charles' wife. i thought the movie was better than > the book, actually; Rob's more of a sad bastard in the book, with a > failing shop and outdated tastes. someone (maybe on this list?) said that > the book casts pop music as "an atavism in the male psyche", while the > movie seems to have been put together by pop geeks with fewer > insecurities. Actually, I think the "atavism" phrase was mine - or at least, part of it (I think I said "adult" rather than "male"), in my article responding to Hornby's R*dioh*ad piece (please, let's not start *that* again). But yeah, I think the book made it almost too easy to despise Rob as just out of it - while the movie, conversely, more stongly claimed that music-geekery and adulthood can't coexist. I think it's one thing to be very deeply into music, to recognize it as one of the most worthy human endeavors...and quite another to be reducing it to an endless series of top-ten lists. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::beliefs are ideas going bald:: __Francis Picabia__ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:01:53 +0100 From: JLA Stevens Subject: [idealcopy] The list and attachments I have been asked to remind everyone not to post attacments on the list - if you want to send me stuff please send it to they.wait@virgin.net and make subject: they wait project Thanks again to those who have sent me stuff - keep it coming! Jez ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:38:32 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] Attachments Jez sez: > I have been asked to remind everyone not to post attacments on the list - 'Tis futile to send them to the list anyway; demime strips the attachments so even an accidental send of an attachment to the list doesn't inflict it upon the other almost-200 subscribers. So no harm done. Do send them off-list to save yourself some time, though -- if you're not on broadband, uploading sound files takes, what, six days? :-) remembering 2400 bps, listowner Miles ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #191 *******************************