From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #187 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 18 2001 Volume 04 : Number 187 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] up vs down ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #186 ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] Strange Venues [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] [idealcopy] OT - prog memories... ["ian jackson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 06:54:39 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] up vs down i scribbled: > is *that* from whence "you got to get up to get down" came? to which ian enquired (note sp>): > sorry to be dim dave, who is this and from where? A more american reference from a coolio song - though not all that obscure considering hiphop has replaced the blues as the principle american musical export. (never mind jazz) There was a particularly good article in the onion a while back in which George Clinton and James Brown respectivly headed the Get-Up-lican and Downicrat political parties. The debate rages on Get get get get get on up. Get down with your bad self. Me, I avoid politics. BTW - this week's Onion has pertinent reporting on just what is cool in music today, See: http://www.theonion.com/onion3722/girl_from_record_store.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 07:41:57 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #186 I would also like to thank the British for destroying Prog Rock. A few years late, but thank you anyway. Perhaps one day I'll be as cool as the people on this list (though I doubt it) and have a playlist that *exclusively* comes out of the Wire. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:49:56 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] up vs down i think the line is at least 20 years old, & probably quite a bit older (maybe from james brown?) ... i'm pretty sure the evasions quote it in their hilarious "wikka wrap" from around '83, but it's sunday a.m. & i just woke up & i'm not dragging out the 12" to play just now. dan >i scribbled: >> is *that* from whence "you got to get up to get down" came? >to which ian enquired (note sp>): >> sorry to be dim dave, who is this and from where? > >A more american reference from a coolio song - though not all that obscure >considering hiphop has replaced the blues as the principle american musical >export. >(never mind jazz) >There was a particularly good article in the onion a while back in which >George Clinton and James Brown respectivly headed the Get-Up-lican and >Downicrat political parties. >The debate rages on >Get get get get get on up. >Get down with your bad self. > >Me, I avoid politics. > >BTW - this week's Onion has pertinent reporting on just what is cool in >music today, See: >http://www.theonion.com/onion3722/girl_from_record_store.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 19:55:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Strange Venues John Roberts said >>>>I don't know about ill conceived but the strangest venue I've ever heard of was the Membranes playing in a car park somewhere. I saw turntablist Philip Jeck and guitarist Virgil Sharkya do a free performance in a multi-storey in Liverpool. It was part of a four day occupation on Arts Council funding. I saw Labradford do a free perfromance in a disused synogogue in East London. Bruce Gilbert was at that one. It was a very suitable venue for the band. I saw Therapy? on The Thekla in Bristol which is a boat. Most recently I have listened to the sounds of Mild Man Jan in audiovisual collaborations at Manchester City Library and a disused swimming pool in Rusholme. During 'new music week' in Manchester about 3 years ago, the City Hall was taken over by various entertaining installations. There was a performance of Gavin Bryars 'Sinking of the Titanic' on a boat but it sold out before we could get tickets. Stephen Montague conduted a Concerto for Taxis outside the city hall. Is the roof of the Royal Festival Hall a strange location? Whatever, it was a good place to hear Big Bottom do a multi-bass heavy metal tribute and a stunning collaboration from Pan Sonic & sheet metal percssionist FM Einheit. Bruce was at that one as well. And Appliance sounded the best I've ever heard them as background ambience to the trains crossing the bridge nearby. Was anyone from Ideal Copy massive largin' it with Gilbert posse at the Spitz last week? What was he up to? Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:47:13 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - prog v. disco giluz wrote :- It was not the only musical genre punks hated and not even the worst one (disco was certainly worse than prog rock). oh i don't know. these days, i'd say the worst of prog was just as bad as the worst of disco. i'm sure acid-house/ techno/whatever dance category, wouldn't have happened if not for the disco explosion. sadly, it's public face was the BeeGee's, as Vanilla Ice was the face of yesterdays hiphop. sure, at the time (76/77) a 'year-zero' attitude was necessary in order to create change, but it didn't take long for people like the Gang Of Four, The Pop Group, etc., to incorporate elements into their stuff that 'could' be termed as 'disco'. i'm obviously cruising for a bruising here, but all the following i could easily listen to inbetween say Shellac and the Fall... 'Boogie Nights' - Heatwave most of Chic's stuff most Earth Wind & Fire singles even 'Heart Of Glass'... i'm sure there's loads more but i haven't got time. you could also view disco as the bridge from funk to hiphop with the pivotal release being 'Rapper's Delight', essentially a disco record with a 'new' form of vocalising. not a defense of disco as such, just the views of an ageing punk rocker/music lover!!!!!! ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:44:49 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - prog memories... Mark wrote :- I had similar feelings about the prog era - I was subjected to it during the 70s and hated it, and as a result spent the next 20 years avoiding anything to do with Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Pink Floyd (apart from Syd-era), Led Zep and anything else that was tainted in my mind.... Not wishing to be closed-minded I tried during the 90s to give some of this stuff a listen...I was perfectly happy to be proved wrong! as i've said before on the list, i think an occassional re-assessment of the past is a good thing in order to see what still stands up to criticism. after all, hopefully, we change as people, so our musical tastes should change in accordance with whatever affects us as time passes. oh blimey, ELP...i thought i'd buried memories of 'Brain Salad Surgery' and 'Tarkus' good grief...thanks for bringing those back Mark!! shit, and in turn, i've just remembered Rick Wakeman's 'Six Wives of Henry VIII'...bugger. Pink Floyd and Led Zep proved to be a revelation - fresh, intelligent and generally unpretentious. Led Zep i came to like a lot towards the end of the 80's due to an old friend who had always loved them and the emergence of the grunge thing. agree with giluz about them being definitely NOT PROG. (i have a feeling from the last round of prog discussion that some of these points have been already covered, but hey...) Pink Floyd. i've been thinking about checking out 'Dark Side...' and 'Shine On...' again, as they were the ones i heard most at the time. later, of course, i was introduced by others to 'Syd-era' Floyd which, even though everyone says is cooler, i would probably agree with. haven't heard all of Syd's solo stuff, but i tend to like that even more than his Floyd stuff. this has probably been discussed already on the list, but is there more than just a 'same-label' tie to Wire? were/are they fans? i don't remember anything that i've read in the past on this subject if it has been. ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 21:41:10 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #186 >charles wrote :- >I would also like to thank the British for destroying Prog Rock. it was a pleasure, lots and lots of fun was had. mind you i don't think we completely destroyed it, just beat it to within an inch of it's life. >Perhaps one day I'll be as cool as the people on >this list (though I doubt it) and have a playlist that *exclusively* comes >out of the Wire. awww, come on charles. one man's 'cool' is another man's bollocks... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:05:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Strange Venues << I saw Therapy? on The Thekla in Bristol which is a boat. >> Around 1981 i saw Section 25 play a gig on a Mersey ferryboat. It was quite a popular "venue" at the time - Magazine and Wah! Heat had previously played on it. If that boat had gone down, Factory records would have ceased to be, as the entire management (Wilson, Erasmus, Gretton etc) plus all of New Order were on board. And no, SXXV didn't do a cover of Ferry 'cross the Mersey.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:14:25 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - prog v. disco Ian, Giluz, << It was not the only musical genre punks hated and not even the worst one (disco was certainly worse than prog rock). oh i don't know. these days, i'd say the worst of prog was just as bad as the worst of disco. >> Prog was far worse than disco! Disco was simply a development of the 70s soul and funk scenes from various US cities - it was a New York rather than Philadelphia or Detroit strain.... In the dark post-glam, pre-punk days around 75-76 much of the good music around was black American music. Sure, there was too much kitsch attached to a lot of disco, but Chic, Earth Wind & Fire etc stand the test of time a lot better than Gentle Giant! As do the Bee Gees for that matter - though I couldn't stand them at the time! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 01:09:38 +0200 From: "Noorda, JJ" Subject: [idealcopy] Totally OT Totally OT, but interesting to some subscribers. Tomorrow on radio 4 in the Netherlands a program called supplement. 4 hours long an interview and music and last concert in Paradiso with the members of Coil. My machines are standing by. Are there some revies of Bruce with FM Einheit, Brotzmann and PanSonic already. FM Einheit is my favourite Neubauten-member. I am looking forward if someone is trying to catch their sound, tape it and maybe bring this out. Already have a PanSonic with FM Einheit recording. Heard a track from Madrd on Dutch radio. Post-rock acoustic band. They are from Grenoble. Last bought ceedees. Click and Cuts vol 2 Fennesz - Hotel Paral.lel Fennesz - Endlesz Summer Rafael Toral - Violence of Discovery etc. Ian Sinclair with Bruce Gilbert of course - Down River Civilization said Hunter S. Thompson ends at the waterline ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #187 *******************************