From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #186 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, June 17 2001 Volume 04 : Number 186 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #185 ["wiremailorder.com" ] [idealcopy] Re:lambs to slaughter ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] Re:lambs to slaughter [MrSodium@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT - British Inventions... ["ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #185 I would like to thank the British for creating Prog Rock. charles shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:16:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - 'The Lamb...' and others Ian, I had similar feelings about the prog era - I was subjected to it during the 70s and hated it, and as a result spent the next 20 years avoiding anything to do with Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Pink Floyd (apart from Syd-era), Led Zep and anything else that was tainted in my mind.... Not wishing to be closed-minded I tried during the 90s to give some of this stuff a listen...I was perfectly happy to be proved wrong! Pink Floyd and Led Zep proved to be a revelation - fresh, intelligent and generally unpretentious. But the others....ELP and Yes sounded as laughably dreadful as ever, while Genesis still sounds po-faced, with all the prog trimmings (wanky keyboards, awful lyrics) that simply raise the hackles....like you say, too many notes... After King Crimson was a topic of dicussion here I downloaded a load of their stuff off Napster (following recommendations) but again I found it impenetrable and soulless. Sorry guys. Still, without prog what would punk have had to kick against? Mark << ....i decided to get hold of a copy of 'The Lamb...' and see if anything had changed in my opinion of this 'legendary' pain in the arse from my past. i found, much to my surprise, that i can now actually listen to the title track (mainly for the bass line) and 'Carpet Crawlers', which i like a lot but i'm still not sure why, maybe it's that 'got to get in, to get out' line... the rest though, to quote from 'Amadeus'...'too many notes...' >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:13:32 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: an entire genre >and 'Carpet Crawlers', which i like a lot - but i'm still not sure why, maybe it's that 'got to get in, to get out' line... is *that* from whence "you got to get up to get down" came? on the lips tip - transmissions knocked me for a loop like few records ever have the pretenders' first royal trux - accellerator hey - it's an 80's (sound) thing r)(o)(m and now she's got helecopters.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:20:30 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:lambs to slaughter gabriel has a stunning stage presence regardless of how relativly well or poor his recordings have aged (a mixed bag for me as well - i still rather like the third solo and how grimy all that 'state-of-the-art' sampling sounds nowadays) all my 'progish' high school friends were gassed by an earlier genesis show (circa foxtrot) and my 2 times seeing gabriel (circa the 4th solo and in at womad in golden gate park a few years back) were memourable as well - though tony levin's widlegged chapmen stick wielding is a bit much gabriel always uses fantastic drummers who seldom solo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 09:06:05 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re:lambs to slaughter In a message dated 6/16/01 8:33:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dmack2002@yahoo.com writes: << friends were gassed by an earlier genesis show (circa foxtrot) >> Was that the one that had "Harold the Barrel" on it? I always felt that was their high point. Short, and to the point: unhappy fat guy tries to off himself. Ooops...this thread probably now belongs on Faclist. I don't mind a car hitting me, but I do mind a driver trying to hit me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:31:54 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - British Inventions... >charles wrote :- >I would like to thank the British for creating Prog Rock. to quote from (i think, python, but i'm probably wrong) :- 'it may be rubbish, but at least it's good British rubbish...' ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:55:03 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Funny joke! Tim Said >>>>Mind you, I reckon the best band in the world are that little known combo, Flay the Goose Mamma. Most listees will have not heard of them because they are so underground and cool that their fanbase is actually officially minus 1,057. That's such a funny joke Tim. Could you tell it to us for the fifteenth time? ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:13:27 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #185 don't forget Mr Moog! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:48:47 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - re Genesis lyric + query dmack wrote :- is *that* from whence "you got to get up to get down" came? sorry to be dim dave, who is this and from where? ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 11:28:29 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT - 'The Lamb...' and others > Pink Floyd and Led Zep proved to be a revelation - fresh, intelligent and > generally unpretentious. Hahaha - Pink Floyd unpretentious? The only discount I can give Pink Floyd is that they weren't accomplished musicians, and couldn't play too many notes even if they wanted to. But they covered up for it with their awful concept albums and 20 minutes songs. At their worst they're a bunch of wankers, at their best they had some nice pop moments (Have a Cigar will always be my favourite PF song - maybe because they had a guest vocalist so it wasn't Waters' hysterical whining or Gilmour's boring phlegmatic voice. Besides, that's the only song where he [Gilmour] actually played a great guitar solo]). PF are quite big in Israel (still), and are considered as the natural progression from the Beatles. This musical ethos has certainly done much damage to the state of our miniscule music industry, but while the Beatles still have a lot to them (though they are referred to too much - it's about time to rely on alternative musical sources), time was not very good to PF albums. I tried listening to my old PF albums a few years ago and found them to be quite boring and tasteless. As for LedZep - I never considered them as prog rock. You can say whatever you want about them, LedZep were primarily a blues-rock band, as opposed to most other music academy graduates who tried to create a fusion of rock with classical and/or jazz. They had some great songs (and lots of lousy ones) and a horrible singer. They've been played to death and should be put aside for a few years and then maybe reevaluated. I think the Beatles deserve the same treatment as well, however great they've been in their times. > Still, without prog what would punk have had to kick against? I actually quite agree with Graeme, after the debates we had hear and my reading of Savage's England's Dreaming, that punk should be referred to as an attitude and not as a musical genre. Prog rock didn't have to exist for punk to rebel against. It was not the only musical genre punks hated and not even the worst one (disco was certainly worse than prog rock). cheers, giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #186 *******************************