From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #181 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, June 12 2001 Volume 04 : Number 181 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: Swim [timrobinson@cwcom.net] [idealcopy] (OT) Appeal for Band Names! [timrobinson@cwcom.net] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim ["they.wait" ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim ["they.wait" ] RE: [idealcopy] RE: Swim ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #180 ["wiremailorder.com" >>Further to comments made a while back, Colin certainly >>does NOT consider Swim to be an IDM label. He is >>utterly contemptuous of this term and 'electronica'. Then Charles Wrote: >But Colin *did* consider Swim an IDM/electronica label at one point!!! It's >very interesting to compare the two compilations H2O Comm. and Team #1 for >the not-so-subtle stylistic change. Of course, he's a guitarist at heart, >and very few can put it down forever. I think what Graeme was saying was that Colin disliked that *term* IDM as a description of the music he puts out, regardless of what one considers the early swim~ output to be. I've no problem with genres and labels. They are unavoidable. For centuries art critics, music critics, architects etc. have invented movements or pigeonholed things...the artist always protests and claims he or she isn't part of that movement. But IDM is a lousy genre label. Wasn't it invented by US rock critics to describe that brief US invasion by the Chemical Bros and Leftfield? Its a meaningless term and in some ways ideologically unsound. Its been discussed at length before, i.e. Chic is intellegent music you can dance to...so is it IDM? If Noel Gallagher sings with the Chemical Brothers their combined IQs drop as his is negative, so does that make their music less intellegent? Its a right old hornets nest...perhaps we shouldn't shake it again. Serious dance music fans love to label things though, helps them sort through the avalanche of 12"s & White Labels they have to wade through. I think they label anything you can't dance to as 'intellegent'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:08:10 +0100 From: timrobinson@cwcom.net Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) Appeal for Band Names! Hello. My band are doing a bit of a demo CD-R blitz at the moment (watch out swim!)and we need some pseudonyms for our band so we can send out different kids of track. Thought I'd see if any of you creative types had any good ideas. I need three new names, one for post-rock type stuff, one for fluffy ambient stuff and one for some more difficult electronic stuff. (i wanted to use Silo, Immersion and Dome but those are spoken for I believe!) Senisble ideas only please(I'm quite capable of making up silly names myself e.g. Breakfast Horse, Tolerate the Sponges, Clag Factor etc etc....) ....on or off list as you see fit. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:34:16 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim Sorry to be thick, but what is an IDM label? I currently have NFI - no flipping idea > From: timrobinson@cwcom.net > Reply-To: timrobinson@cwcom.net > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:15:07 +0100 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Swim > > Graeme Wrote: >> >>> Further to comments made a while back, Colin certainly >>> does NOT consider Swim to be an IDM label. He is >>> utterly contemptuous of this term and 'electronica'. > > Then Charles Wrote: > > >> But Colin *did* consider Swim an IDM/electronica label at one point!!! It's > >> very interesting to compare the two compilations H2O Comm. and Team #1 for > >> the not-so-subtle stylistic change. Of course, he's a guitarist at heart, >> and very few can put it down forever. > > I think what Graeme was saying was that Colin disliked that *term* IDM as a > description of the music he puts out, regardless of what one considers the > early > swim~ output to be. > > I've no problem with genres and labels. They are unavoidable. For centuries > art critics, music critics, architects etc. have invented movements or > pigeonholed > things...the artist always protests and claims he or she isn't part of that > movement. > > But IDM is a lousy genre label. Wasn't it invented by US rock critics to > describe > that brief US invasion by the Chemical Bros and Leftfield? Its a meaningless > term and in some ways ideologically unsound. > Its been discussed at length before, i.e. Chic is intellegent music you can > dance to...so is it IDM? If Noel Gallagher sings with the Chemical Brothers > their combined IQs drop as his is negative, so does that make their music less > intellegent? Its a right old hornets nest...perhaps we shouldn't shake it > again. > > > > Serious dance music fans love to label things though, helps them sort through > the avalanche of 12"s & White Labels they have to wade through. I think they > label anything you can't dance to as 'intellegent'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:15:44 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim Don't answer that ridiculous question. I've worked out what it means. IDM is almost as daft as saying something is too "commercial" to be any good, like people are in the music business just for the fun of it - I think not! Everyone's got something to sell. They Wait. PS if anyone feels inclined please send your favourite sound bites any format will do. Send them direct . As I would like to carry on with the "collective" sound project mentioned some while ago. PPS I was the only person to remix C+Ms Oscillating by Immersion internet project back in 1995 - so I am definitely up for this one. PPPS remember any format long or short, text or audio, just send it as an attachment. > From: "they.wait" > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:34:16 +0100 > To: > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim > > Sorry to be thick, but what is an IDM label? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:54:23 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Swim Intelligent Dance Music, meaning that dance music, because of its danceability, is not and never could be intelligent. Actually, it's not unsimilar to Progressive Rock, a far more commercially successfull label that originated at the time when people thought 'plain' rock cannot be progressive, i.e. complex, advanced, musical, or in short: intelligent! Don't know much about who where or when it originated - first time I heard about it was on the list. giluz > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of they.wait > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 5:34 PM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Swim > > > Sorry to be thick, but what is an IDM label? > I currently have NFI - no flipping idea > > From: timrobinson@cwcom.net > > Reply-To: timrobinson@cwcom.net > > Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:15:07 +0100 > > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > > Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Swim > > > > Graeme Wrote: > >> > >>> Further to comments made a while back, Colin certainly > >>> does NOT consider Swim to be an IDM label. He is > >>> utterly contemptuous of this term and 'electronica'. > > > > Then Charles Wrote: > > > > > >> But Colin *did* consider Swim an IDM/electronica label at one > point!!! It's > > > >> very interesting to compare the two compilations H2O Comm. and > Team #1 for > > > >> the not-so-subtle stylistic change. Of course, he's a > guitarist at heart, > >> and very few can put it down forever. > > > > I think what Graeme was saying was that Colin disliked that > *term* IDM as a > > description of the music he puts out, regardless of what one > considers the > > early > > swim~ output to be. > > > > I've no problem with genres and labels. They are unavoidable. > For centuries > > art critics, music critics, architects etc. have invented movements or > > pigeonholed > > things...the artist always protests and claims he or she isn't > part of that > > movement. > > > > But IDM is a lousy genre label. Wasn't it invented by US rock critics to > > describe > > that brief US invasion by the Chemical Bros and Leftfield? Its > a meaningless > > term and in some ways ideologically unsound. > > Its been discussed at length before, i.e. Chic is intellegent > music you can > > dance to...so is it IDM? If Noel Gallagher sings with the > Chemical Brothers > > their combined IQs drop as his is negative, so does that make > their music less > > intellegent? Its a right old hornets nest...perhaps we > shouldn't shake it > > again. > > > > > > > > Serious dance music fans love to label things though, helps > them sort through > > the avalanche of 12"s & White Labels they have to wade through. > I think they > > label anything you can't dance to as 'intellegent'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:43:02 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V4 #180 >> Mike Oldfield & Dome! Phil Collins & John Cale on the >> same (rather dated) record! Only Eno the Butcher could >> pull off such a stunt! Just one track stands out as a lest we not forget that Phil Collins was a great drummer... c shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:05:56 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters? Well said. But *my* favourite has to be the first. Rollercoaster, Mistress, Grace Cathedral Park. Excellent. C fernando on 08/06/2001 18:29:09 To: idealcopy@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Chris Ray/IT/MEDAS) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters? They are fantastic... that is all there is to say :o) Actually, I got to like them recently, after avoiding them earlier... Lately, with the solo stuff from main man Mark Kozelek, it leans towards doing acoustic songs... in a bit of folk style (Nick Drake like, and not Joan Baez). He did this amazing deconstruction of AC/DC songs, actually 10 of them, with wonderful results. Better than deconstructions done by DJs these days. In terms of sounds, it varies from early to the now 3-years-in-the-can Old Ramon release. Ocean Beach is the best album in my opinion... a bit of the brooding from the Tindersticks, but a bit more straight ahead in instrumentation... There are some essential songs in previous to Ocean Beach releases (e.g., Mistress, both acoustic and an electric version that sounds at home with their label at the time, 4AD, and others from the Rollecoaster-pic eponymous album -- there are two of them). If you caught the GAP commercial with the Car's All Mixed Up, that was from their previous album. Mark played the role of the bass player on Almost Famous. If this genre is your cup of tea, I heard that live they are rather good. I will check them out in San Francisco at the end of the month... though the last two nights with Tortoise is good enough for the year to me... just nothing short of fantastic, again. - -fernando At 10:25 AM 6/8/01 -0400, Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote: >Red House Painters are playing in Boston this month. I heard the name but >never heard the music before. What are they like? > >Syarzhuk > >Be healthy, stay wealthy... > >Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:19:08 +0100 From: "they.wait" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - the weather in Nebraska... Hey I lived in Nebraska - I think it's a fair bet you could complain about the weather there and be right! TW > From: "ian jackson" > Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:25:32 +0100 > To: "ideal copy" > Subject: [idealcopy] OT - the weather in Nebraska... > > it's more like complaining > about the weather in Nebraska when you're in Belgium. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #181 *******************************