From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #178 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 9 2001 Volume 04 : Number 178 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Boring Radiohead Fuck Off [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Nice from Here/First Letter/Wireviews [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Radiohead Must Die [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:18:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Boring Radiohead Fuck Off Graeme, << Sounds like they're ripping off John Wall there. Ever seen his Cd's on the Utterpsalm label? << Never heard of John Wall. Is he Howard Wall's brother? Is he better than the Lurkers? >>Have a listen to Fractuur for some incling of why this 'RH are doing something radical & innovative' line is such a lot of hog. Actually you might find the earlier Alterstill easier listening as you can try to spot the Neubauten & This Heat samples... >> Neubauten and This Heat samples, eh? Is that radical & innovative? Neubauten & This Heat certainly were... >>They watered it down to gross stadium levels. Aphex Twin hardly needs RH to flog records for him! Autechre are only in it for the sales after all. 'Electronica' is seen to be hip these days, and RH want a piece of the kudos pie.<< I'd have thought the opposite applied. if they wanted to do gross stadium, they'd have done OK Computer Part 2 without the weird ones... >>>>And while there may be one or two Autechre-ish tracks on a Radiohead albums, how many guitar/bass/drums songs are there on an Autechre album? (not that I'm criticising Autechre, but you get my drift...) No, I don't get your drift at all. What is your point exactly? You mean they should be ripping off RH???? Get outta here! BTW nothing off Kid A reminds me of Autechre at all! Autechre and Aphex Twin are really quite different.<< My drift is simply that there is a wide diversity of sound between the different tracks on the Radiohead albums, whereas Aphex/Autechre etc have a single basic 'sound'. >>The lists of your record collection make it seem that maybe you aren't getting to hear the stuff that does this. Compare them to Gilles Gobeil, Robert Normandeau, Fennesz, To Rococo Rot, Windsor For The Derby, Ground Zero, Matmos, Philip Jeck, Calla, Aix Em Klemm, Thomas Dimuzio, Kevin Drumm or Coil<< Having heard only a couple of those acts I can't comment. To Rococo Rot seem quite boring. Perhaps you should make me a compilation tape. >>One can only reinvent when one invents to begin with and RH plagiarise. Nothing wrong with plagiarism per se, but at least make it entertaining.<< Bollocks. >>'The Conversation' by Cabaret Voltaire was very tedious.<< Cabs only became even close to tedious when technology caught up with them. When I'm referred to new and supposedly innovative electronic acts I tend to use the Cabs as a yardstick. Show me a bad Cabs track from 1979-83. >>PiL became a joke after Levene quit (actually before - 'Commercial Zone' is 80% atrocious!).<< Oh, sure. I was simply pointing to the development between the 1st album and Metal Box. >>New Order are now a joke & I demand slimming drugs for Barney! << Well he gave up "slimming drugs" about 10 years ago ;-) That was the problem. He's 45, and looks pretty good on it... >>At least Magazine had the grace to realise they were getting past it! BTW Magic Murder & the Weather is about a quadrillion times better than any drivel RH have ever come up with. I think Ben Mandelsen's guitar playing is quite special (not a patch on McGeoch but still very good indeed).<< No, no, no, no, no! MMATW is truly awful. Mandelson is hardly noticeable, whereas McGeogh was Magazine's engine. Weak songs, cod-reggae, motown "tributes", utterly dismal production. Never has a band sounded less interested. Should never have been released. It's as if Wire had followed up 154 with some George Gill demos. Bursacrap Inc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:06:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Nice from Here/First Letter/Wireviews Graeme warbled: Craig said >>>PK seems to be a rather conservative producer... >>Have you heard the Kendall Turner >>Overdrive Cd on Parallel Series? I meant for TFL -- the production on that album is at best conservative and at worst pretty mediocre. Listening through headphones does enable you to hear some of the interesting stuff, but the mix is far too flat. I still reckon TFL could have been a real classic if only the final product wasn't so conservative. >>>I certainly prefer the Wir songs The First Letter (Over & Over) A Bargain @ 3 an 20 yeh Ticking Mouth Naked Whooping & Suchlike Underwater Experiences 12 Drill U Janet Take It (original) I think the original Take It massively pales in comparison compared to the LFO remix. As for Janet, are you a secret Robert Palmer fan, as that's what it reminds me of? :) >> Craig also described 'Serious of Snakes' >>as boring. The RFH version, especially. However, I don't really think much of the original these days either; unlike Over Theirs or Drill, which are sometimes hypnotic, Snakes just drones on and on. The Coatings version is better, but I refuse to be flogged just for saying it's a bit on the dull side :) Finally, a few of you may have noticed Wireviews is a tad late this month. There are a number of reasons for this, not least the O'Shea CD, which I wanted to review prior to the next update. It will be online sometime this weekend. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] Swim/g-man [LFO] >>Didn't one of them do some stuff for >>~swim as g-man? what's that like? Gez Varley, half of LFO is g-man. The other half, Mark Bell, is currently producing, most recently 'Exciter' for Depeche Mode, but previously for the liks of Bjork and others. I'm not going to comment on g-man's music though, as I haven't heard much of it. >> Related ~swim question - has anyone >> collected the entire ~swim catalogue (or >> at least all the CD's) ? Are there any real >> 'dogs' in there? Or are they all >> worth a listen? Almost all Swim~ CDs and singles are reviewed on Wireviews and although some are obviously better than others, the only real 'dog' is Plastic Venus' 'Helven Park', which sounds like a naff Seefeel clone that borders on VU rock at times. Swim~ seems to have a good quality 'filter'... Depending on your personal likes, different Swim~ acts are likely to appeal. Colin and Malka veer towards alternative rock/pop and most of their stuff is worth a listen, particularly the more recent stuff ('Bastard', 'My Pet Fish'). Immersion is organic/ambient and with the exception of the variable 'Full Immersion' (dance remixes) all are worth getting hold of. 'Symptoms' is a great mash of noise, post-everything and subtle experimentation and probably the most leftfield of the Swim~ catalogue. Everything by 'Lobe' is gorgeous and the post-rocky Silo stuff is definitely worth purchasing. However, as someone else on the list pointed out, get hold of 'Swim Team One' and 'Water Communications' first. The former covers recent and unreleased Swim~ and is on sale for the price of a 12"! The later covers Swim~ from 94-97 (iirc) and is a double CD that contains many tracks previously only available on 12" releases. Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:19:01 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Radiohead Must Die if a band puts out music you don't like, they're not doing it to irk you personally - nor does their doing so realistically get in the way of other people putting out music you do like. So what's the resentment for? 1. I wasted over 2 hours of my life listening to those piffle merchants Radicalhead and I could've been doing something more useful like shooting fox hunters. 2. They are in my face all the time even when I pick up The Wire who should know better. At least Penman, who did the Wire article last year, has a good enough handle on 'cutting edge' to recognise fakers when he hears them! 3. People keep saying have you heard the new RH? I'm pig sick of it before I've even heard more than one 'song'. 4. Volcano The Bear do a much better job of ripping off Robert Wyatt. 5. RH are the first nail in the coffin of the death of 'post rock' whatever that has come to mean. I'm just waiting for the Oasis remix album. 6. Lets rock! Ladies and gentlemen, I give you... WIRE! ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:25:46 -0400 From: "Syarzhuk Kazachenka" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters? Red House Painters are playing in Boston this month. I heard the name but never heard the music before. What are they like? Syarzhuk Be healthy, stay wealthy... Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:34:39 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] John Wall - Alterstill Neubauten and This Heat samples, eh? Is that radical & innovative? Neubauten & This Heat certainly were... The best way to find out would be to listen to it and find out. Yes it is better than the Lurkers, who were better than the Stone Roses, who were better than Win. Anyway I have never heard anyone who sounds anything like John Wall, and each of his 4 albums mark a large progression from the one before. Which Wings album do you own? Fascinating stuff... ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:37:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] All Aphex Not The Same My drift is simply that there is a wide diversity of sound between the different tracks on the Radiohead albums, whereas Aphex/Autechre etc have a single basic 'sound'. This is bullshit. You sound like an old phogey who's been driving in the middle of the road for too long... Come To Daddy sounds quite unlike anything off Ambient Works 2 to my ears, for example. ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:38:50 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] To Rococo Rot seemed boring To Rococo Rot seem quite boring. Perhaps you should make me a compilation tape. Perhaps you should try to get to record shops with more interesting stock than HMV more often? ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:44:12 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Magic, Murder and The Weather No, no, no, no, no! MMATW is truly awful. Mandelson is hardly noticeable, whereas McGeogh was Magazine's engine. Weak songs, cod-reggae, motown "tributes", utterly dismal production. Never has a band sounded less interested. Should never have been released. It's as if Wire had followed up 154 with some George Gill demos. This is the biggest load of bollocks masquerading as criticism I've ever read. Maybe Howard Devoto should have got Mark Bursa in to play guitar and produce the fourth Magazine album and we could all rest easy with Barry Adamson in stadiums in the place now occupied by Yorkie boy. Adamson, Formula and Devoto were as much 'engines' as McGeoch. Dave Formula is still around doing productions in Manchester or so I heard... ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:08:28 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Michael O'Shea My copy arrived this week. It is a truly unique and magical recording. Kevin's sleevenotes are illuminating and extensive. O'Shea was a maverick Irish instrument inventor who played transcendent music on a Mo Cara (Gaelic: My Friend) and instrument based on the hanmmer dulcimer. Expect to see a review on The Brain next week. Only 1000 copies. What a nice way to end the WMO label. Gilbert & Lewis are to be congratulated. And Thanks to Kevin for making it happen again. Now back to your boring Radiohead album. ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:33:24 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Wall - Alterstill >>Which Wings album do you own?<< Greatest Hits Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:35:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] All Aphex Not The Same << You sound like an old phogey who's been driving in the middle of the road for too long... >> The middle of the road is the most dangerous place to drive. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:29:55 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Magic, Murder and The Weather Graeme, << This is the biggest load of bollocks masquerading as criticism I've ever read. << It's called a personal opinion, formed in the early 80s and unchanged to this day. The album's a lame postscript to a fantastic band's career. >>Maybe Howard Devoto should have got Mark Bursa in to play guitar and produce the fourth Magazine album and we could all rest easy with Barry Adamson in stadiums in the place now occupied by Yorkie boy.<< Well Graeme, I'm flattered you should think so highly of my skills. Especially as I only started playing guitar the year that album was released. So the results would have been ...er...interesting! But I did know even then that too much reverb is not necessarily a good thing. I maintain that the guitar playing on that record is anonymous and the production is poor. >> Adamson, Formula and Devoto were as much 'engines' as McGeoch.<< So why'd it go so flat without him? >>Dave Formula is still around doing productions in Manchester or so I heard... >> Playing New Orleans jazz, I believe! You can find out more at http://shotbybothsides.com/magazine.htm Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 12:19:36 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Michael O'Shea << My copy arrived this week. It is a truly unique and magical recording. >> You mean you didn't already have it on vinyl?? Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:29:09 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Red House Painters? They are fantastic... that is all there is to say :o) Actually, I got to like them recently, after avoiding them earlier... Lately, with the solo stuff from main man Mark Kozelek, it leans towards doing acoustic songs... in a bit of folk style (Nick Drake like, and not Joan Baez). He did this amazing deconstruction of AC/DC songs, actually 10 of them, with wonderful results. Better than deconstructions done by DJs these days. In terms of sounds, it varies from early to the now 3-years-in-the-can Old Ramon release. Ocean Beach is the best album in my opinion... a bit of the brooding from the Tindersticks, but a bit more straight ahead in instrumentation... There are some essential songs in previous to Ocean Beach releases (e.g., Mistress, both acoustic and an electric version that sounds at home with their label at the time, 4AD, and others from the Rollecoaster-pic eponymous album -- there are two of them). If you caught the GAP commercial with the Car's All Mixed Up, that was from their previous album. Mark played the role of the bass player on Almost Famous. If this genre is your cup of tea, I heard that live they are rather good. I will check them out in San Francisco at the end of the month... though the last two nights with Tortoise is good enough for the year to me... just nothing short of fantastic, again. - -fernando At 10:25 AM 6/8/01 -0400, Syarzhuk Kazachenka wrote: >Red House Painters are playing in Boston this month. I heard the name but >never heard the music before. What are they like? > >Syarzhuk > >Be healthy, stay wealthy... > >Visit Belarusan Music Source - http://www.belmusic.net > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 13:08:02 -0500 From: "wiremailorder.com" Subject: [idealcopy] WMO 3CD - OOP Lewis/Gilbert & Mills has sold out and is out of print and unavailable from the website. Thanks to all of you who have purchased this CD. shop@wiremailorder.com http://www.wiremailorder.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #178 *******************************