From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #177 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, June 8 2001 Volume 04 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: fashion(?) and music ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] missmatches redux ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] 0T-Later [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] Boring Radiohead Fuck Off [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] [idealcopy] Dan Is In The House - Off Topic [Hatsephsut@aol.com] [idealcopy] being pathologically forgetting [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [idealcopy] Re: fashion(?) and music actually the former ms. ciccone is a perfect illustration of how the 'big' record companies do not dictate, but merely react. while never a true trend setter (madonna's early lloks always followed girls in my set's trends which in turn were directly culled from the face an W combined with financial considerations) madonna was initially signed to seymour stein's then small sire records which was more or less the vanguard of new wave in the us, being the home of the talking heads as well as many others. she now runs her own label. she may or may not have exploited other than musical talents in attracting producers, video directors and musicians, but the 'creative' vision has always been her own. that it lags 2 (or more) years behind the 'true' innovators (whoever they may be) is actually quite deliberate IMO. and like her stuff or not, i find it hard to view her as anything other than successful on her own terms, which i personally respect more than any artist defines their respect in terms of critic's expectations be those critics t the Wire, Maximum R&R or freakin Billboard. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 06:41:50 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] missmatches redux almost forgot neubatten opened for jg (foetus) thrillwell at a small church in KCMO and were brilliant fm einheit sliced his leg open bouncing in a contact-miced shopping cart but finished the next 15 minutes of the set before retiring to the local hospital for 40-odd stitches talk about focus and dedication (not to mention the potential for tetanus) no contest - jg should have run , tail between legs, but was too dense to realize he had been upstaged and instead bumped and grinded like a 2 dollar whore to the accompaniment of a malfunctioning 4-track really pathetic - never had a whit of respect for him since ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:20:58 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] 0T-Later Pulling two strands... Later with Radiohead Jools Holland introduces a performance by the band featuring hits from the album OK Computer, as well as new material from eagerly awaited new release 'Amnesiac' Friday 9th June BBC2 10.30-11.30 (You an me can give it a miss, Graeme) A ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 18:34:29 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Nice From Here (Election Letter) Craig said >>>PK seems to be a rather conservative producer... Have you heard the Kendall Turner Overdrive Cd on Parallel Series? Its not what I'd call conservative, especially in relation to the SFT Shwarma Cd from which it was drastically reworked. Craig asked >>>>presumably you have heard the LFO remix of Take It, which is on the CD4? That's probably the best Wir(e) (second-period) piece. Yes, it's on my white label 12" which cost only 50p (including tax!) I certainly prefer the Wir songs The First Letter (Over & Over) A Bargain @ 3 an 20 yeh Ticking Mouth Naked Whooping & Suchlike Underwater Experiences 12 Drill U Janet Take It (original) Craig also described 'Serious of Snakes' as boring. If I was elected I'd get a law in to have anyone who didn't have a hand in writing that song who described it as 'boring' publicly flogged. Not whipped, you understand, but flogged to Collectors on Ebay... All daytime DJ's would be executed by guillotine and their heads displayed at branches of HMV which would then all be exploded with bombs made by Thorn EMI in an interactive Duchampian installation. Gilbert & Lewis would be given the sounds of the explosions to remix. The public would all be fed the results via Radio 1-4 for a week solid. They'd be quite free to call it 'boring' we can't be having fascism now can we not unless we lie like a Blair! Next I'd ban fox hunting and have all former hunters chased thru the hills by naked Asian youths from Oldham astride honking elephants, whilst tree huggers blast 'Dearth of the Cold' by Ocsid from ghetto blasters amongst the leaves. Once run to ground the red coat scum would be slowly eviscerated and left to rot, Brian Ferry especially. The government would make a coat from his pelt and present it to Eno with an MBE in loving respect of his devotion to lost cause moneyspinners like James & U2. Then I'd have a Dome installation at 'The Dome' and invite everyone from this list for free at the 'expense of the tax payer' (sic). MacDonalds would be forced to distribute lentils to the homeless, and all their shops would be converted to drop in centres for junkies and others in need of excess fat. Copies of the first Killing Joke album would be given to everyone in preparation for the coming apocalypse. Work would be abolished by automation, and a tape loop robot installed at 10 Downing Street. VOTE for the SHEER WILL SPIRIT party We don't promise anything but the best! "The best what?" said kids on TV. The country went to the dogs. ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:04:33 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nice From Here (Election Letter) yes....but how do you REALLY feel?? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:59:39 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nice From Here (Election Letter) > Next I'd ban fox hunting and have all former hunters > chased thru the hills by naked Asian youths from > Oldham astride honking elephants, whilst tree huggers > blast 'Dearth of the Cold' by Ocsid from ghetto > blasters amongst the leaves. Once run to ground the > red coat scum would be slowly eviscerated and left to > rot, Brian Ferry especially. The government would make > a coat from his pelt and present it to Eno with an MBE > in loving respect of his devotion to lost cause > moneyspinners like James & U2. But just think about this. Just how many naked Asian youths can you really expect to find in Oldham? And if they're *from* Oldham, can they really be considered "Asians"? And how many of them will have adequate experience with elephants, given that they've been spending so much time in Oldham? Personally, I'd use Bradley Armored Fighting Vehicles, but I'm from the U.S. so that's probably what you'd expect me to prefer. > Copies of the first Killing Joke album would be given > to everyone in preparation for the coming apocalypse. Don't forget to include the Scars' "Your Attention Please" as a bonus track! (Even though you probably didn't like them much.) John "it will be decisive" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:15:55 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Boring Radiohead Fuck Off Steven said >>I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans ;-)) Very funny! I heard Radiohead when they did have about that many fans. I had a copy of their 1st EP 'The Drill' (it had, get this for deep meaningful metaphor, a drill on the cover!) They were shit then They are shit now OK Computer is crap and the sleeve is really ugly The Bends is total dross & the sleeve is even uglier Kid A works OK as a comedy album I guess. It is all 'utter wank'. C.R.E.E.P.! Paul said >>could be some conflicting loyalties ahoy , their megaprogfest is the same day as the wire whitechapel possible-thing........p Ha! You'd have to be retarded to go see those whining shites instead of Wire, ignorance is your only excuse! Bursacrap inc: >>>>And the limited edition version is quite the most beautifully > packaged CD you'll find. Sounds like they're ripping off John Wall there. Ever seen his Cd's on the Utterpsalm label? Have a listen to Fractuur for some incling of why this 'RH are doing something radical & innovative' line is such a lot of hog. Actually you might find the earlier Alterstill easier listening as you can try to spot the Neubauten & This Heat samples... >>>>1: They copied some sounds/noises/ideas from other groups (eg Aphex/Autechre etc). So what. they admit it, and it can only have been beneficial to sales of those artists. They watered it down to gross stadium levels. Aphex Twin hardly needs RH to flog records for him! Autechre are only in it for the sales after all. 'Electronica' is seen to be hip these days, and RH want a piece of the kudos pie. >>>>And while there may be one or two Autechre-ish tracks on a Radiohead albums, how many guitar/bass/drums songs are there on an Autechre album? (not that I'm criticising Autechre, but you get my drift...) No, I don't get your drift at all. What is your point exactly? You mean they should be ripping off RH???? Get outta here! BTW nothing off Kid A reminds me of Autechre at all! Autechre and Aphex Twin are really quite different. >>>>2: Thom Yorke sounds "whiney". Hmmm...it's sound sooo much better with Bruce Springsteen on vocals. Or Eddie Vedder. These singers too are crud and should be lined up against a wall with Yorke & bloody Bono Jesus Boy & shot point blank in the stamper! >>>>3: They're somehow not radical enough. (this is the general tone of Ian Penman's nasty review in the Wire). That just misses the point. Here is a conventional-ish rock band that has been piled high with praise (greatest album of all time etc) that has tried to do something different and interesting. The worst thing about Penman's 'nasty' review in The Wire was that they gave it a page when so many other infinitely better records get a paragraph. Everyone's boring the tits off us with Radiohead why do they have to do their eNMEy reader filching RH on the cover stunt? I nearly didn't buy it in protest when I saw the name there and was glad they rubbished it. RH tried to do something interesting AND THEY FAILED! Lots of others are trying and succeeding. RH are just clueless dorks. On Sunday night Mixing It played an hour of music and the only crap track was the RH one! They got a nasty review! The poor dears, maybe they can go exorcise the sheer pathos of it by writing a triple concept album on a bontempi and record it on a broken Walkman as a homage to the New Zealand 'lo-fi' scene which they've just 'discovered'. >>>>They've made not one but two albums that stretch their art into a number of new areas New for you and them perhaps... But make no mistake the kids have been listening to Aphex Twin long enough for him to buy a tank to kill his axe wielding neighbours! >>>>while still sounding like Radiohead. For me this is a direct, and all-too-rare connection with a better time (about 20 years ago, appropriately in the context) when reinvention was quite normal (eg less than two years from Pink Flag to 154 - another 12 months and you've got Dome 1. See also PiL, Magazine, Cabaret Voltaire, JD/NO etc). What a lot of rot. Reinvention is still quite normal. The lists of your record collection make it seem that maybe you aren't getting to hear the stuff that does this. Compare them to Gilles Gobeil, Robert Normandeau, Fennesz, To Rococo Rot, Windsor For The Derby, Ground Zero, Matmos, Philip Jeck, Calla, Aix Em Klemm, Thomas Dimuzio, Kevin Drumm or Coil rather than Peral Jam & ver Boss. They will pale in comparison. One can only reinvent when one invents to begin with and RH plagiarise. Nothing wrong with plagiarism per se, but at least make it entertaining. Still at least they're not as embarrassingly smackable as Elastica! 'The Conversation' by Cabaret Voltaire was very tedious. PiL became a joke after Levene quit (actually before - 'Commercial Zone' is 80% atrocious!). New Order are now a joke & I demand slimming drugs for Barney! At least Magazine had the grace to realise they were getting past it! BTW Magic Murder & the Weather is about a quadrillion times better than any drivel RH have ever come up with. I think Ben Mandelsen's guitar playing is quite special (not a patch on McGeoch but still very good indeed). See also The Pop Group. The critics delight Radioshite... They set my teeth on edge They think they are vegetables but never come out of the fridge! Graeme (who bought Nevermind the day it came out and still likes Nirvana) ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:22:56 EDT From: Hatsephsut@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Dan Is In The House - Off Topic << oh, g'wan. try admitting to being partial to certain items from the elo & afos catalogues, at which point "you're invisible ... you got no secrets to conceeeaaaaaaallllllllll." or however that song by that old minnesota guy goes. dan >> How does it feel? Great, that's how - welcome back Dan xoxo - NOW I feel like all is right in the Universe as long as we're confessing, have I mentioned my affinity for Firehouse here? No, not FireHOSE as in ex Minutemen, is it? - Firehouse - gotta have a sappy power ballad now and again Laurel (have I reached ZERO credability yet with that one?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:16:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [idealcopy] being pathologically forgetting news flash: if a band puts out music you don't like, they're not doing it to irk you personally - nor does their doing so realistically get in the way of other people putting out music you do like. So what's the resentment for? Isn't it pretty damned near inevitable that someone's going to put out music you don't like - and that some of those acts are going to be critically or commercially successful or both? It's more pointless than complaining about the weather - it's more like complaining about the weather in Nebraska when you're in Belgium. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Any noise that is unrelenting eventually becomes music:: __Paula Carino__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:53:23 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] being pathologically forgetting I totally agree...if you don't like it, fine you don't like. Why waste time and energy belaboring the point? It's like when women leave...they can't just leave, they have to tell you WHY! I don't give a fuck why...telling me will only delay your leaving! So sure, I can say New Order is better at 33 than at 45, but to go on at length (like I'm doing right now!) about why you don't, shit, who cares?? Criticism, the kind that lacks the constructive angle, is too often some vituperative diatribe (yeah? well look it up) designed to show how the critic is so much fukkin smarter than everyone else (I, of course, exclude myself here). Thank you for listening and we now return you to your regularly scheduled chaos already in progress. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #177 *******************************