From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #176 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, June 7 2001 Volume 04 : Number 176 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener ["Steve Speight" ] [idealcopy] Beekeeper Cross Mix [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Most ill conceived gig line up [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The subject is.. the wir LFO remix and ~swim back catalogue [PaulRabjohn@ao] [idealcopy] g-man and ~swim back catalogue ["ian jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] (NOT)Another Radiohead fan ["giluz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:46:33 +0100 From: "Steve Speight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener I saw the Ruts about 15 times in their short career. One gig they were supposed to be supported by Misty but the drummer was ill. I was talking to a guy at the bar who turned out to be the drummer in the stand in support band. He said they were just a "pub bluesy/rock covers band" but had stepped in at the last minute. I remember him saying he thought they might not go down well. I smiled politely. He bought me a beer and I promised to clap when they came on stage. A bit later......band drift onto the stage. I clap as promised (hmmmmmm beer). Crowd do their best to show displeasure/disinterest. Singer walks up to microphone........"Good evening, this first one is a Dr. Feelgood number". Two seconds later band run off stage in a shower of bottles and glasses (none of that plastic nonsense either). Oh dear......they didn't even play a note. As Misty were there anyway (minus drummer) they did play but with the Ruts drummer filling in. Steve - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Andrew Lumbard Sent: 06 June 2001 07:31 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com >> Sent: 05 June 2001 22:10 >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >> >> >> I've been trying to think of a real mismatch, but the nearest I >> can come up >> with is Subway Sect (in full jazzy tuxedo mode) sandwiched between the >> Birthday Party and Bauhaus. You'd have expected Vic to be >> bottled off stage >> by hordes of snarling goths, but it seemed to work OK, and the >> crowd enjoyed >> it.... >> >> Mark Was it '76/77 when the Telvision/Blondie & Talking Heads/Ramones tours were running at the same time? I remember the NME commenting that it would have been better as Tv/TH & B/R AndyL Oh yes, just remembered Curved Air supported by Jonn Foxx Ultravox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:57:30 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] The subject is.. the wir LFO remix and ~swim back catalogue Ian Grant wrote >>> >>>On another, Wire-related note, that LFO remix of "Take It" is indeed a work >>>of sublime genius. Really, really wonderful, and an essential inclusion on >>>any late period Wire compilation. I totally agree this track is superb. I've never heard any comments from LFO about their remix, has anyone any info? Didn't one of them do some stuff for ~swim as g-man? what's that like? Related ~swim question - has anyone collected the entire ~swim catalogue (or at least all the CD's) ? Are there any real 'dogs' in there? Or are they all worth a listen? MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:14:32 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] My last comment on the Radihead thread I must say I enjoyed Mark B's eloquent continuation of the Radiohead defence. I'm also not arguing that they are the most innovative band ever, but they make a fine noise and that's good enough sometimes. I don't think anyone can deny that at least they are a band capable of change which in my view, at lot of bands cannot. This openess to change is to me, a link back to Wire. Too many bands get a sound and stick. How do they keep themselves interested? I've played in bands (in a previous life) and the thought of keeping new compositions within the parameters of previous tracks was anthema. It's supposed to be art at some level after all !! I'm done. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:05:18 +0100 From: Howard Spencer Subject: [idealcopy] apple juice/radiohead/manscape Graeme/list, >I spat apple juice all over A Public Place and cleaned >it up with just cold tap water for no discernable >sound problems. You must be able to gob with amazing accuracy. Sort of apt, as the song was inspired by a pile of puke. >Radiohead albums should always be cleaned with >sandpaper & blowtorch. That's near heresy here in Oxford, of course. Can't get excited about anything I've heard by R'head and on the whole I think I prefer the local cartoon funsters Supergrass (who have had the sense to relocate to Brighton). If I crane my neck from where I sit I can almost see Thom Yorke's house - oh, the reflected glory. Someone once said that all celebrities are either nine inches taller or shorter than they look on telly or in magazines. Thom falls into the latter catagory. I think a bit of backlash to `big' groups is inevitable and even healthy. It certainly makes me feel better. Faced with a mass media that largely covers the same `products', whose buyers largely consist of those who don't really like music all that much, is it not a very human response to get very bloody irritated - even to the point of ignoring the (possible) merits of the `products' in question? Life in the Manscape 12" mix - I've always thought this to be the most pointless piece that 80s wire ever made, and that's coming from a defender of the album as a whole. The CD single of `life in the manscape' also contains a `single' mix, which has one minor lyrical variation from the album mix and two tracks that are on `coatings', so not a must for the non-completist. So and slow is grows CD single is well worth having though IMO. `Nice from here' sounds as if it was knocked up in a day, with Colin suffering from blocked sinuses - and all the better for it. Howard - -- Howard Spencer Research Editor, nineteenth century, twentieth century and art New Dictionary of National Biography (direct line: 01865 267021) http://www.oup.co.uk/newdnb/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:15:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Most ill conceived gig line up Tim, << As for dodgy line-ups, I went to see Mercury Rev same week as 'Deserters Songs' was released *supporting* mouldy old Bob Mould. They came on really early as well so we missed the first 10 mins of a sublime 35 minute Rev set and the had to retire to the bar to escape Mould and his two hour set of chest beating bore-rock. >> The Forum in Kentish Town. Bob, old curmudgeon that he is, refused to play any Husker Du or Sugar songs, and only played stuff released as 'Bob Mould'. This is on his farewell full-on rock tour.... Of Bob's four solo albums, only the first one is any good, but he only played about 2 songs off that. As for the Rev, the live version lacked the subtlety of Deserter's Songs, though it was a good set I agree. They did rock out though - I seem to remember them closing with a pretty straight cover of Neil Young's Cortez the Killer. Not what I had expected, but not THAT far out of place for the audience?? >>And then maybe there is the forthcoming tour by the Beach Boys supporting Status Quo. On paper, sounds preposterous....but consider the Beach Boys line-up. The 'Bez' of the BB's Mike Love plus a bunch of session musos. << You get Bruce Johnston too. But no Wilsons on stage = Not the Beach Boys. >>A bit like Ringo going on tour as The Beatles. Fakkin Ell.<< Not as preposterous as Michael Clarke (the drummer) touring as the Byrds - and winning a US court case taken out by McGuinn, Crosby and Hillman to stop him...Ringo would have legal precedent on his side! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:07:53 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan >Mark Bursa, MarkM, and Steve Speight: > >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List > > > >>I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead are sound. > > > >Me too. > >OK, we're up to four! Lordy, I've confessed to liking Radiohead and James >in the same week; there might be a coup in the offing due to my unsound >musical preferences... :-) oh, g'wan. try admitting to being partial to certain items from the elo & afos catalogues, at which point "you're invisible ... you got no secrets to conceeeaaaaaaallllllllll." or however that song by that old minnesota guy goes. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:10:37 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener can't say i know my (or, for that matter, anyone else's) harold pinter at all, but i gather that his oeuvre includes plays by the titles of the birthday party & the room. at any rate, i remember seeing a volume listing those 2 on the spine in a used bookstore in tucson some 18 years ago & being struck at what an interesting gig that would make. dan >>> >>> I've been trying to think of a real mismatch, but the nearest I >>> can come up >>> with is Subway Sect (in full jazzy tuxedo mode) sandwiched between the >>> Birthday Party and Bauhaus. You'd have expected Vic to be >>> bottled off stage >>> by hordes of snarling goths, but it seemed to work OK, and the >>> crowd enjoyed >>> it.... >>> >>> Mark > >Was it '76/77 when the Telvision/Blondie & Talking Heads/Ramones tours were >running at the same time? >I remember the NME commenting that it would have been better as Tv/TH & B/R > >AndyL > >Oh yes, just remembered Curved Air supported by Jonn Foxx Ultravox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:13:54 -0500 From: "ray\)\(o\)\(mac" Subject: [idealcopy] age - radiohead - and innovation firstly - there are quite a few 40-somthings on the list - dunno if there any in their 60s radiohead - after years of thinking the emporer has no clothes i hear defensive manouevers from the remaining fans stick to your guns! you have the right to like what you like and history is a fickle bitch perhaps what you are experienceing is the backlash from the multiple pronouncements of OK Computer as the apex of creative acheivment from critics who now embrace suigur roos and tortoise (and the backlash to that has already begun - count me onboard) as to the music industry stifling innovation - i think too much credit is given to the evil machinations of commercialism and not enough responsibility is assigned to the artists who lemminglike follow the industry over the next trend-cliff over and over vitamin c indeed having viewed this precess first/secondhand enough times i think the artist's focus is the only relevant factor in how close they stay to the creative vision financial realities and a craving for fame kill more creative inclinations than major label a&r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:27:45 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Vernacular I just rang the Whitechapel Gallery, and the event hgas definitely been cancelled. They couldn't get an events licence apparently. The people there seemed pretty vague and clueless. A shame, as it would have been a good event... Wonder if Wire will play somewhere else instead? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 15:34:52 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Vernacular Mark>>> They couldn't get an events licence apparently Useless buggers! A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:48:37 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Most ill conceived gig (O.T.) I have the Kevin Coyne album "Babble" that he did with Dagmar Krause. It is absolutely one of my favorites of all time. Any other recommendations along that line? >From: "Phillip Blakeney" > >The greatest mismatch I have been to was in the 70s. Country Joe and the >Fish (yeah, yeah, I know....) were supported on a tour of Australia by >Kevin Coyne. A bizarrer combination is hard to think of. Kevin BLEW the >headliners off stage. I went out and bought or ordered every KC record I >could find the very next day. (If you don't know of Mr Coyne he plays >strange somewhat harrowing songs influenced by his working for years in >mental asylums. He played his guitar sitting down using his thumb to >shape the chords giving a unique sound (its a polio thing?), and on this >tour played solo and used backing tapes.) A most unusual performance. It >was all so left field and totally unexpected 20 people (that I know of) >got together and travelled to the next concert the following night about >600 miles away. I don't remember anything of poor old Country Joe! Phillip > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:03:12 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener City Boy opening for Hall and Oates? Livingston Taylor opening for Jethro Tull? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 12:14:37 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) Can you imagine my wife's expression after playing her Mzui ? Cheers Chris >> ///// true story. i was lying in the bath , pondering my navel and listening to a tape of MZUI. suddenly i hear a horrendous clattering downstairs and i think i'm being burgled. only to discover my girlfriend has returned and is crashing around trying to get to the boiler , thinking the noises are coming from a malfunctioning central heating system. honestly , the avant-garde is really too much for some people... :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:27:02 +0100 From: Mark Short Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the wir LFO remix and ~swim back catalogue Mark McQuitty wrote: > > Ian Grant wrote >>> > > >>>On another, Wire-related note, that LFO remix of "Take It" is indeed a > work > >>>of sublime genius. Really, really wonderful, and an essential inclusion > on > >>>any late period Wire compilation. > > I totally agree this track is superb. I've never heard any comments from LFO > about their remix, has anyone any info? Didn't one of them do some stuff for > ~swim as g-man? what's that like? > > Related ~swim question - has anyone collected the entire ~swim catalogue (or > at least all the CD's) ? Are there any real 'dogs' in there? Or are they all > worth a listen? > > MarkM I believe Andy Weatherall also did a remix for Wir, but it wasn't to the band's liking, and so wasn't released. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:28:38 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] age - radiohead - and innovation > as to the music industry stifling innovation - i think too much credit is > given to the evil machinations of commercialism and not enough > responsibility is assigned to the artists who lemminglike follow the > industry over the next trend-cliff over and over > vitamin c indeed > > having viewed this precess first/secondhand enough times i think the > artist's focus is the only relevant factor in how close they stay to the > creative vision > financial realities and a craving for fame kill more creative inclinations > than major label a&r That's exactly what I was referring to - with a major company artists are exposed to a lot more pressure of this kind. As Colin said in the recent radio show, Wire were lucky never to have had a hit record - I think that's what he was referring to. Most people think that it's possible to combine between success and artistic innovation. I don't think it's impossible, I just think it's highly improbable - it takes a certain rare talent most people, even good artists, don't have. I think history proves me right here. I might still be wrong about Radiohead, but the reason for my indifference towards them is not due to the fact that they're signed to a major label - they just never struck me as good enough. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: John Roberts Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener City Boy? What? As in 5-7-0-5? John - --- stephen graziano wrote: > City Boy opening for Hall and Oates? > Livingston Taylor opening for Jethro Tull? > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:55:57 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: [idealcopy] Ill conceived venue The ill conceived line-up could be leading to something I heard on the radio this morning. The bands playing the strangest venues. Two (or three)that sprung to mind were Spandau Ballet playing on HMS Belfast (and Birmingham Botanical Gardens) and Echo & The Bunnymen on the roof of HMV Oxford Street. Any offers? AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 18:12:05 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Beekeeper Cross Mix I got possibly the very last new copy of Gilbert's Madrid remix 12" in the uK recently Paul asked /////where d'you get it? Chunky Records mail order (their last copy, I asked as I thought others might be interested) I located it by feeding the name of the record label to Google search engine (only one I ever use). >much good? I'm currently running a slow skipping turntable with no preamp thru a midi hi-fi so I'm not getting much joy with records, but yes it is worth getting. Bruce does something to Madrid which the BBC Radiophonic Workshop would be quite pleased with if Dr Who needed to run the TARDIS in for an MOT. Actually its rather like those rising synth loops at the end of Buzzcocks first album after the Boredomoutro but with additional crackle and click. In relation to other Gilbert remixes - it's not as funny as the Can one, nor as blissfully masterful as the Scala one, nor as noisy as the Disinformation Antiphony ones, nor as engine throblike as the He Said Omala one, nor as reduced and banged out as the Thurston Moore one. I guess it actually reminds me more of 'Small Electric Piece' or the Sub Pop single than anything he's done recently. label - Paperplane 608 route de la bemaz 73230 saint alban leysse France Titles - 1, Pan American - external tone remix 2, Leverkusen - external tone remix Bruce Gilbert - beekeeper cross mix Comes in a plain black cover. I guess that's the disadvantage of not speaking a second language? Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:14:01 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener City Boy were a weird sort of progresso-pop-scifi outfit that sort of fit in a late 70's scene with 10CC, Nasty Pop, Skyhooks, Deaf School, BeBop Deluxe, et. al. I particularly like their first two albums S/T and Dinner at the Ritz. The first had this apocolyptic classic called 5000 Years and another a reenactment of the closing scenes of the movie Sunset Boulevard. In some ways a precurssor, I guess, to Wire in the sense of being very experimental with "pop song" structure, topics, and, production. >From: John Roberts >To: sjgraziano@hotmail.com, steve@unit3.demon.co.uk, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:51:14 -0700 (PDT) > >City Boy? What? As in 5-7-0-5? > >John > >--- stephen graziano wrote: > > City Boy opening for Hall and Oates? > > Livingston Taylor opening for Jethro Tull? > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at >http://explorer.msn.com >Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 >a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:52:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: RE: [idealcopy] (NOT)Another Radiohead fan On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, giluz wrote: > Sorry to say that I still maintain this attitude. I just don't believe that > innovative music can be released by a major label and also achieve > commercial success - either one of those is possible, but both together just > don't make sense, as far as the music industry goes nowadays. > I just don't believe that major > recording label artists can be trully innovative, because innovation, by its > nature, challenges the status quo, which is something that the industry has > to be against. First, I'd question whether "innovation" is the primary marker of quality - - or whether it can truly exist at all. That aside, it still seems odd that you suggest it's impossible for a good record to be on a major label these days: are you saying no matter what, you wouldn't even listen to a major label release? I certainly agree that major labels are highly unlikely to encourage quality music - but as for maintaining the status quo, actually MLs are unlikely to do that for long. Fashion - and big-name recording artists are surely a subset of that - demands a ceaseless churn, constant turnover of what's hip. What was cool last week must become grossly uncool the next - in fact, quite often what's cool now is so precisely because it's defined in contrast with what came before. I'd rather the MLs supported the "status quo" - in the sense that they gave bands they signed a chance to develop and evolve rather than dumping them or not promoting them when they don't instantly sell a zillion copies. That's one factor that allowed ML bands in the sixties and (to an extent) in the seventies to make good records: they were allowed to develop rather than have to hit number one right out. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I play the guitar. Sometimes I play the fool:: __John Lennon__ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:06:02 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) In a message dated 06/06/01 17:21:58 GMT Daylight Time, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: > suddenly i hear a horrendous clattering downstairs and i think i'm being > burgled. only to discover my girlfriend has returned and is crashing around > trying to get to the boiler , thinking the noises are coming from a > malfunctioning central heating system. Good one! I showed the Mrs your e-mail & she's still laughing as I write ! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:10:48 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ill conceived venue In a message dated 06/06/01 18:21:11 GMT Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > Two (or three)that sprung to mind were Spandau Ballet playing on HMS Belfast > (and Birmingham Botanical Gardens) and Echo & The Bunnymen on the roof of > HMV Oxford Street. > Any offers? > > Elkie Brooks & Lulu at Newmarket Racecourse ? strange but true... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:13:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ill conceived venue Andrew, << Two (or three)that sprung to mind were Spandau Ballet playing on HMS Belfast (and Birmingham Botanical Gardens) >> Botanical Gardens was a great venue - I didn't see the Spandau Ballet gig there, as there was something better on that night - probably the Nightingales at the Fighting Cocks;-) - but I did see interesting post-punkers turned new romantic funksters Fashion there. Played outdoors on a nice summer's evening. Band were too slick by then (original line-up was decent) but the ambience was most agreeable! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:48:22 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ill conceived venue In a message dated 06/06/01 18:21:11 GMT Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > > >> Two (or three)that sprung to mind were Spandau Ballet playing on HMS Belfast >> (and Birmingham Botanical Gardens) and Echo & The Bunnymen on the roof of >> HMV Oxford Street. I arrived in London in 1987 on the very day the latter event happened. Of course, I found about it ex post facto -- later that week in the pages of the NME and MM. My submission is the Pogues at the Tennessee State Fair, still the most fun show I've ever seen. I've recounted it way too often, so anyone wanting the story can ask for it off-list. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:17:15 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >>> I've been trying to think of a real mismatch, Yeah - me too. And, then I remembered one that I saw. Stevie Ray Vaughn opening up for The Moody Blues. What the hell? Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:20:22 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Most ill conceived gig line up In a message dated 06/06/01 03:24:41 GMT Daylight Time, timrobinson@cwcom.net writes: > A younger and less cynical version of me saw the 'rave version' of The > Shamen at Glastonbury in 1992 and *thought* they had been beamed down > from another planet and that I was hearing the future singing back at > me. ////// must admit i had some time for them early on ; but the way they turned out you'd struggle to hear a good word for them these days. that whole indie-dance scene was pretty frightening ; the mere thought of the farm or the soup dragons quite makes me shudder.p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:21:58 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener In a message dated 06/06/01 07:38:34 GMT Daylight Time, andrew@lumbard.co.uk writes: > Was it '76/77 when the Telvision/Blondie & Talking Heads/Ramones tours were > running at the same time? > ///// the first headlinning tour by talking heads had dire straits as the support. and no , i didn't go. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:35:13 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The subject is.. the wir LFO remix and ~swim back catalogue In a message dated 06/06/01 10:00:54 GMT Daylight Time, Mark.McQuitty@dickinsoncontrol.co.uk writes: > Related ~swim question - has anyone collected the entire ~swim catalogue (or > at least all the CD's) ? Are there any real 'dogs' in there? Or are they all > worth a listen? ///// i guess i have a whole set of swim cd's and most of the singles.i'd say the quality control was pretty good , most of them are well worth a bash. least interesting is probably plastic venus , bit of a straight "rock band" almost. cusp and g-man are very techno so maybe if that's not your bag try to hear it first. but the colin/immersion/lobe/malka/dol-lop/silo releases are very good. easy way to try it out is to try the 2 cheap samplers (swim team/water communication) rather than take my word for it. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:44:33 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] g-man and ~swim back catalogue Mark McQuitty wrote :- Didn't one of them do some stuff for ~swim as g-man? what's that like? g-man's 'kushti' lp is well worth a listen. one of my favourite swim releases. >Related ~swim question - has anyone collected the entire ~swim catalogue >(or at least all the CD's) ? Are there any real 'dogs' in there? Or are >they all worth a listen? i used to have the priveleged position of receiving all the early ~swim releases, due to doing a radio show. some were better than others, as well as the above i'd recommend the following that i've heard:- Silo - Instar Lobe - Lobe Cusp - Space + Time * Liquids + Metals plus all the Immersion/Oracle stuff _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:36:53 +1000 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Most ill conceived gig- Kevin Coyne (O.T.) Stephen said in response to a posting about the strange combination of Kevin Coyne supporting Country Joe and The Fish: "I have the Kevin Coyne album "Babble" that he did with Dagmar Krause. It is absolutely one of my favorites of all time. Any other recommendations along that line?" ////// The best starting point is probably the double live LP 'In Living Black and White' from 1976 (don't know if its on CD?). This is sort of a greatest (non) hits concert with the best of his songs to that date. The first few are K.C. on guitar with backing tapes as I saw him, then the band kicks in with a ferocious rendition of 'Eastbourne Ladies'. The band could belt out a good rock beat and included Zoot Money on keyboards. If you don't like this album I venture to say you probaly wouldn't bond with the studio material but no doubt others will disagree! For early studio try the double 'Marjory Razor Blade', and the scarce 'Strange Locomotion' recorded as the band Siren . Cheers,Phillip - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:28:19 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Ill conceived venue In the early 80's Cabaret Voltaire played here in LA in the basement of some Greek Ortodox church. all the icons were a nice counterpoint to drunken stoned punkers.....(although we were better dressed...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:09:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Hindman Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener Yikes! > And, then I remembered one that I saw. > > Stevie Ray Vaughn opening up for The Moody Blues. I saw that tour as well, up in Portland! I'd forgotten all about that one! I think for overall effect, I'll add Bowie /w NIN, back in 96. ===== - ----------------------------------------------------------- "May all your ups and downs be between the sheets." - -Tom Waits - ----------------------------------------------------------- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:26:54 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] (NOT)Another Radiohead fan > First, I'd question whether "innovation" is the primary marker of quality > - or whether it can truly exist at all. That aside, it still seems odd > that you suggest it's impossible for a good record to be on a major label > these days: are you saying no matter what, you wouldn't even listen to a > major label release? No - I'm just saying that it's highly unlikely. Of course I'd listen to a major label release if it interests me - I stated in my last mail that my indifference to RadioHead derives from their music and not from their record deal. Also, it's not like I'm slagging off major labels and saying the indies are the 'good guys' - most of them behave quite similarly to the majors. > I certainly agree that major labels are highly unlikely to encourage > quality music - but as for maintaining the status quo, actually MLs are > unlikely to do that for long. Fashion - and big-name recording artists are > surely a subset of that - demands a ceaseless churn, constant turnover of > what's hip. What was cool last week must become grossly uncool the next - > in fact, quite often what's cool now is so precisely because it's defined > in contrast with what came before. Fashion is part of the status quo - it's like Madonna changing her style each time in favour of another style which was innovative two years before that. Everyone thinks she's such a genius for knowing exactly when and how to change where it's actually just a smart executive decision. Trends change, but only after they've already been done before and are not relevant anymore. As to this kinda attitude bringing alternative music to the masses, causing people to dwell into less commercial music - it's sometimes true, but is besides the point. I'm not saying Radiohead are the same as the Spice Girls. I'm just saying that they're not as good as people claim them to be. > I'd rather the MLs supported the "status quo" - in the sense that they > gave bands they signed a chance to develop and evolve rather than dumping > them or not promoting them when they don't instantly sell a zillion > copies. That's one factor that allowed ML bands in the sixties and (to an > extent) in the seventies to make good records: they were allowed to > develop rather than have to hit number one right out. Which record company allowed artists not to sell? They could do whatever they wanted as long as they sold. Sixties were very innovative, but innovation was trendy then, so lots of innovative bands actually sold records. Besides, the 60's were an exception 'cause record executives didn't have a clue as to what was really going on musically - they thought that it was enough for bands to have long hair and look hippy and make weird sounds to sell records. As for the 70's - who exactly do you refer to? All those prog rock bands that had to develop their style so that in a few years time they'd release their symphonic rock masterpiece on a double (or triple) album? But even if these things used to happen, you'd have to admit that today they're not, and that the corporate and commercial power of the majors is much bigger than before, allowing them to avoid taking risks. Any sense of adventure these companies might have had, for example in signing up Punk bands in 1977, always derived from a time when their other artists didn't sell that well. A time like today, when the major labels music industry is thriving, is not a time for sigining up innovative bands. giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #176 *******************************