From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #175 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 175 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] ACH [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] Re: [idealcopy] OT - James ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan [Mark McQuitty ] [idealcopy] Whitechapel [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] next to wire ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Can vinyl records really be cleaned? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=] [idealcopy] [OT] Most ill-conceived gig line-up [Ian Grant ] Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan [MarkBursa@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan [Aaron Mandel ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:02:52 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ACH Chris.Ray said: >I have a friend who wraps speakers and Hi-Fi equipment in cling film. It's a dust thing. >>>er, how does (s)he get the cd tray / tape deck open? >>>or am I being thick ? Just cut a slit into the cling film. Don't forget to dust the cling film every week or so and change it every 2 months. C The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:28:28 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - James Mark wrote :- >I saw James supporting New Order in 1983 at the Liverpool State Ballroom (I >guess you were there too?) and I thought they were dire. Seemed to veer >into cheerful Oirish-style fiddly-dee music at various points... yeah, i know what you're saying, but that's why i liked them at the time, because it was so against the general trend at that point. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:41:00 +0100 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Mark Bursa wrote >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead are sound. What's the problem? I thought the TOTP performance was good. Better than the usual crap. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:56:55 +0100 From: "Steve Speight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Me too. What's more I think OK Computer is the best album of all time. I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans ;-)) Cynical of Ashford - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Mark McQuitty Sent: 05 June 2001 11:41 To: Ideal Copy Mailing List (E-mail) Subject: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Mark Bursa wrote >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead are sound. What's the problem? I thought the TOTP performance was good. Better than the usual crap. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:43:31 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] mismatched opener a proto deathmetal band called Teezer opening for the Specials in suburban detroit the reason they were proto was the metal was exceptionally lame and the death was vinyl masks sample lyrical content "you kiiiiillllledddd me - yoooouuuuu killed meeeeeee" other mismatch the mahavishnu orchestra (cirac inner mounting flame) opening for phlo and eddie period zappa KO in the first 30 seconds - frank might as well gone home - the audience was drained even the staff was slack-jawed fusion (deservedly) gets a bad rap now, but at the inception it was incredible ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:54:57 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Whitechapel A friend who works nearby checked out the scene at the Whitechapel at lunchtime & the word is they are still in a meeting as I write but expect a decision this afternoon fingers, everything crossed A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:39:34 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) Steve said >I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans I'm no fan of radiohead therefore I've not been tempted to listen to a whole record by them...saw them on tv at Glastonbury or somesuch... I guess I'm one of the older listers ( maybe the oldest) & my theory, for what it's worth is that the appeal of radiohead is largely to the younger end of the spectrum I have no idea if this is true but I have a feeling that, like me, if you've been listening to popular music since the 60's you think, 'so what? they're nothing special at all...' I'll get me zimmer A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:29:14 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Politicians In a message dated Tue, 5 Jun 2001 4:20:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "giluz" writes: << > Graeme R wrote: > > >Howard mentioned his voting inclinations... > >The Labour Party - I'd rather kill them all (alright > >spare Tony Benn & Alan Simpson) than vote for the > >lying bastards (and that goes equal for the Tories) > > They're all lying bastards, thats their job! > Enough politics already, lets not drag the list down that gutter > lest Miles > get on our case. It might be their jobs to lie, as you define it, and I wouldn't have any trouble with that if it weren't for the fact that in the process of lying they also make other people's lives miserable. It might be naive of me to think so, but I strongly believe that lying should be left to copywriters, lawyers and weather forecast people. Just happened to be reading a novel with the following relevant item. English in context but applicable anywhere. "....her response to some riposte from Earnshaw was a basilisk stare that would have plunged a normal man into silence, but the member of Parliament maintained a confident air of satisfaction. Which was why politicians were assassinated, Blair thought, because nothing else would faze them." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:43:15 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] next to wire Whipped Cream 2 Whitehouse The White Noise White Stains 2 Who 12 B. Wilson Windy & Carl 6 Wipers 2 Wire 21 Wobble 10 Roy Wood 9 Woodentops 2 World of Twist Wreckless Eric 3 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:32:48 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) << Steve said >I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans /////but I have a feeling that, like me, if you've been listening to popular music since the 60's you think, 'so what? they're nothing special at all...' I'll get me zimmer >>>>>> like i said before alistair , not sure you're allowed to say things like that :-) no matter how tempting....... could be some conflicting loyalties ahoy , their megaprogfest is the same day as the wire whitechapel possible-thing........p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:03:07 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] next to wire stephen graziano wrote :- >Roy Wood 9 it take it that that would include the very wonderful lp entitled 'Mustard'? My W's (vinyl), go like this :- Loudon Wainwright Tom Waits War Muddy Waters The Who (just the one, guess which, Graeme!) Robert Wilkins Sonny Boy Williamson Windsor For The Derby Wire The Wolfhounds ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:26:08 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Can vinyl records really be cleaned? Yes. Someone did a chemical analysis on an expensive cleaning fluid and concluded that it was essentially a dilute washing up liquid solution in distilled water. (URBAN MYTH?) I spat apple juice all over A Public Place and cleaned it up with just cold tap water for no discernable sound problems. Radiohead albums should always be cleaned with sandpaper & blowtorch. Matt Wand of Stock, Hausen & Walkman RECOMMENDS the fairy liquid treatment (but be sure to dry them in the air before returning to sleeve) This isn't much use for my copy of the CD 'Giving Up With Stock, Hausen and Walkman' which stopped working after I wiped off the fingerprints with a camera lens cleaner! This is the only CD I have which has deteriorated to completely unplayable condition. I find that sometimes CD locks and record skips are improvements. The first time I heard a CD skip it was Autechre's Envane, and it always seemed a trifle dull after I cleaned off the dust! My This Heat Peel sessions CD has started skipping insanely well on Horizontal Hold and it sounds like the most out there heavyweight freethinking David Keenan ever coined a cliche to! I have a copy of the Banshees Dreamhouse which locks on Greenfingers for a very convincing ethnic-trance infinite floor filler. Even better a copy of the Bollocks on which Rotten yells 'We don't care... yebede hair yebede hair yebede hair yebede hair, etc. Mucho hilarity! I did a really good tape made of jumping / abused PiL records a few years back. It was released in a limited edition of ONE under the name FIBREGLASS MESSIAH. Searching Ebay is no use! (COLLECTORS: do limited editions increase value? Should I have numbered the tape?) Christian Marclay's 'Record Without a Cover' was an intentional use of the deterioration of vinyl and is rather good. Every copy is of course unique (COLLECTORS: are they worth more if they are more dirty & scratched?) Philip Jeck does very innovative sound art with jumping records, locked grooves. Oval has been doing the CD skipper thing for quite some time and the Ovalprocess CD is worth hearing. Also checkout anything by elpH (aka Coil). I used to enjoy destroying worthless major label promos with knives stickers & pens and then taping the skipping result, sending it back to the A&R office/PR with a note requesting that they include my 'remix' on the next single. Most of these bands get dropped before the next single of course such is the tax loss nature of the rip off music biz. Speaking of rip offs, did the corporate scum at EMI ever pay Wire the royalties they were owed????????????? NO, no, no, no Mr Suit! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:02:23 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Most ill-conceived gig line-up At 04:30 05/06/01 -0400, John wrote: >Possibly not the most ill >conceived billing of all time but what is the worst >billing other listers have seen? I think we should >disallow festivals or we'll be here all year... Well, I once saw Earwig (who later became Insides, briefly on 4AD offshoot Guernica) support Kingmaker at Sussex University. Never the most extrovert of bands, Earwig were doing stuff that would've been drowned out by a clock ticking at the time, albeit with the occasional blast of elegant noise. Suffice to say that their quiet introspection was not really considered to be ideal preparation for Kingmaker's lumpy, rabble-rousing bollocks by the assembled throng of pissed-up student blokes.... On another, Wire-related note, that LFO remix of "Take It" is indeed a work of sublime genius. Really, really wonderful, and an essential inclusion on any late period Wire compilation. Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:48:03 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] bad gigs next to wire Sean wrote: >> Classic mismatch here in LA in, I think,'81: The Clash open for >> The Who at >> the Coliseum (built in 1932 for the Olympic Games). Well waddya know, Joe Strummer & The Mascaleneros (?) openned for The Who on this years money grabbing reunion tour, so I'm led to believe. In my modest cd collection the neighbours are Virgin Prunes/Wire/World of Twist vinyl, Webb Wilder/Wire&Newman&He Said&Dome/Wonder Stevie (it's my wife's!) 12" Win/Wire/Wyatt Robert - Shipbuilding - now there was a tune,they don't write them like that anymore. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:48:05 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan I tried very much not to like Radiohead, but Kid A gets a lot of plays, and it's beginning to look like the same will happen to Amnesia. Anyone going to the Oxford show? not that I am, the week before my hols and all that. AndyL Steve Speight wrote >> >> Me too. >> What's more I think OK Computer is the best album of all time. >> I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans >> ;-)) >> >> Cynical of Ashford >> >> >> >> Mark Bursa wrote >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List >> >> I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead >> are sound. >> What's the problem? I thought the TOTP performance was good. >> Better than the >> usual crap. >> >> MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:26:11 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Radiohead In a message dated 05/06/01 01:52:38 GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > And the limited edition version is quite the most beautifully > packaged CD you'll find. It's a library book, complete with date stamps and > the little card in the front pocket (along with the CD). And it's only a > couple of quid more than the standard version. > > Mark I bought it today & as you say,it is a very nicely packaged CD & a fine album. Recorded at the same time as KID A I notice. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:29:09 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Mark Bursa, MarkM, and Steve Speight: >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List > >>I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead are sound. > >Me too. OK, we're up to four! Lordy, I've confessed to liking Radiohead and James in the same week; there might be a coup in the offing due to my unsound musical preferences... :-) >What's more I think OK Computer is the best album of all time. I can't go that far, but it was my #1 album of 1997. >I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans >;-)) I think this cuts closer to the truth. Just like with Nirvana ten years ago, almost every review or conversation about them has to begin with a reference to their popularity. This is unfortunate in both cases, as the whole "more-alt-than-thou" backlash is drowning out some spectacular music. later, listowner Miles, who vividly remembers that many of the same people who told him in August '91 what a great album NEVERMIND was turned into selective "Amnesiacs" after it hit #1, calling the album a "sellout" and compaining about its "commercial" production values, as though the music itself had changed in the interim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 16:59:15 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) In a message dated 05/06/01 14:27:24 GMT Daylight Time, alistairtear@streetmanagement.org.uk writes: > I guess I'm one of the older listers ( maybe the oldest) > & my theory, for what it's worth is that the appeal of > radiohead is largely to the younger end of the spectrum > I have no idea if this is true Sorry Alistair I can't agree with that.I'm 41 for what it's worth. I'm not saying they are the best thing since sliced bread or they are awe inspiringly groundbreaking (they're not).They are just a band I really like after listening to a fair few of their albums over a fair few years. I'm particularly into Electronica at present-saw Orbital 2 weeks ago & they were excellent-so alot of drums / bass / guitars bands seem quite ordinary recently. However the rare gem then comes along eg Mogwai & your faith is restored. XTC/ Bill Nelson/Kraftwerk & King Crimson & The Mahavishnu Orchestra (nice call) still have big big soft spots.... & Devo/They Might Be Giants & The Residents.... God I'm rambling.... On topic - this must have been discussed before & usually when listees introduce themselves...but I'd like to tell you about my first contact with Wire. I was 17 in 77' & going through the albums in Andy's Records in Bridge Street Peterborough.I obviously got to the W's somehow.Picked up Pink Flag. Wicked cover & turned it over.Each member of Wire described by first name & one characteristic eg height,colour hair etc.It must have impressed me enough to buy it. I hadn't heard a thing by them to that point. I took it round my mates & put it on.The rest is history as they say. I wore that vinyl out.No No No No Mr Suit ! 3 years later & I am working in a bank & I nip round another mates at lunch time after having purchased Dome 1.Excited or what.You can imagine my mate's face whose last LP at that time was I think by Lynard Skynard. What the fuck is that ? he says. Not having heard any tracks before I must admit to being a little non plussed at the likes of Ampnoise & Cruel When Complete but perseverence is a fine attribute. Can you imagine my wife's expression after playing her Mzui ? Cheers Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:06:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Steve << What's more I think OK Computer is the best album of all time. I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans ;-)) >> Indeed. I find the anti-Radiohead attitudes baffling. Criticism seems to be along the following lines: 1: They copied some sounds/noises/ideas from other groups (eg Aphex/Autechre etc). So what. they admit it, and it can only have been beneficial to sales of those artists. And while there may be one or two Autechre-ish tracks on a Radiohead albums, how many guitar/bass/drums songs are there on an Autechre album? (not that I'm criticising Autechre, but you get my drift...) 2: Thom Yorke sounds "whiney". Hmmm...it's sound sooo much better with Bruce Springsteen on vocals. Or Eddie Vedder. 3: They're somehow not radical enough. (this is the general tone of Ian Penman's nasty review in the Wire). That just misses the point. Here is a conventional-ish rock band that has been piled high with praise (greatest album of all time etc) that has tried to do something different and interesting. They've made not one but two albums that stretch their art into a number of new areas - while still sounding like Radiohead. For me this is a direct, and all-too-rare connection with a better time (about 20 years ago, appropriately in the context) when reinvention was quite normal (eg less than two years from Pink Flag to 154 - another 12 months and you've got Dome 1. See also PiL, Magazine, Cabaret Voltaire, JD/NO etc). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:10:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener I've been trying to think of a real mismatch, but the nearest I can come up with is Subway Sect (in full jazzy tuxedo mode) sandwiched between the Birthday Party and Bauhaus. You'd have expected Vic to be bottled off stage by hordes of snarling goths, but it seemed to work OK, and the crowd enjoyed it.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:12:34 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan >Mark Bursa, MarkM, and Steve Speight: > >>>Well, as the official Only Radiohead Fan On The List > > > >>I think I ought to pipe up in favour as well. I think Radiohead are sound. > > > >Me too. > >OK, we're up to four! Lordy, I've confessed to liking Radiohead and James >in the same week; there might be a coup in the offing due to my unsound >musical preferences... :-) > Hey - count me in there as a Radiohead fan, somewhere.... Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:17:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan Miles, << who vividly remembers that many of the same people who told him in August '91 what a great album NEVERMIND was turned into selective "Amnesiacs" after it hit #1, calling the album a "sellout" and compaining about its "commercial" production values, as though the music itself had changed in the interim >> The reverse of this is the magazines that hailed albums that were obvious turkeys as "albums of the year" (eg Blur's Grat Escape, Oasis's Be Here Now - hello Q Magazine!). What were the reviewers on? (rhetorical question - obviously Charlie provided by record company PR dept). My, how foolish they looked as they had to backtrack at great speed! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:19:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Miles Goosens wrote: > OK, we're up to four! Lordy, I've confessed to liking Radiohead and > James in the same week; there might be a coup in the offing due to my > unsound musical preferences... :-) I *still* loathe the first three Radiohead records, but Kid A was pretty good and about half of Amnesiac impressed me on first listen. When "Pulk/Pull" came on I was hoping the whole thing would be an affront to people who liked "Pyramid Song", but it was not to be. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:20:41 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) Chris, << I guess I'm one of the older listers ( maybe the oldest) > & my theory, for what it's worth is that the appeal of > radiohead is largely to the younger end of the spectrum > I have no idea if this is true Sorry Alistair I can't agree with that.I'm 41 for what it's worth. >> Me too. I slipped quietly past the 40 mark last year. Radiohead sound like a bunch of 30-somethings in no way targeting da yoof. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 18:36:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > 2: Thom Yorke sounds "whiney". Hmmm...it's sound sooo much better with > Bruce Springsteen on vocals. Or Eddie Vedder. This counter-criticism baffles *me*. Am I allowed to dislike Thom Yorke's voice if I think Springsteen and Vedder are much worse? Come on. aaron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:02:05 +1000 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Most ill conceived gig (O.T.) The greatest mismatch I have been to was in the 70s. Country Joe and the Fish (yeah, yeah, I know....) were supported on a tour of Australia by Kevin Coyne. A bizarrer combination is hard to think of. Kevin BLEW the headliners off stage. I went out and bought or ordered every KC record I could find the very next day. (If you don't know of Mr Coyne he plays strange somewhat harrowing songs influenced by his working for years in mental asylums. He played his guitar sitting down using his thumb to shape the chords giving a unique sound (its a polio thing?), and on this tour played solo and used backing tapes.) A most unusual performance. It was all so left field and totally unexpected 20 people (that I know of) got together and travelled to the next concert the following night about 600 miles away. I don't remember anything of poor old Country Joe! Phillip - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 03:01:16 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Most ill conceived gig line up John Roberts wrote an inspired thread idea for a rainy Tuesday: > (ii) In some off list rambling I managed to realise > that World Domination Enterprises once supported the > rave version of the Shamen. Possibly not the most ill > conceived billing of all time but what is the worst > billing other listers have seen? A younger and less cynical version of me saw the 'rave version' of The Shamen at Glastonbury in 1992 and *thought* they had been beamed down from another planet and that I was hearing the future singing back at me. My friend Pat, had also convinced himself that he had to keep dancing otherwise he would fall off the earth and spin off into deep space. Hmmm.....Thats Glastonbury for you. As for dodgy line-ups, I went to see Mercury Rev same week as 'Deserters Songs' was released *supporting* mouldy old Bob Mould. They came on really early as well so we missed the first 10 mins of a sublime 35 minute Rev set and the had to retire to the bar to escape Mould and his two hour set of chest beating bore-rock. For support acts, I would also mention Sigur Ros, who I have had the misfortune to stumble across on three occasions and they have never failed to bore me beyond despair....po-faced prog rock at its most tuneless and humourless and proof positive that Iceland is not as cool as people think. They bring their own carpet on tour with them for gods sake. Did Sid die for this? An Icelandic delicacy said the NME....yes but that also goes for rotting Shark meat. And then maybe there is the forthcoming tour by the Beach Boys supporting Status Quo. On paper, sounds preposterous....but consider the Beach Boys line-up. The 'Bez' of the BB's Mike Love plus a bunch of session musos. A bit like Ringo going on tour as The Beatles. Fakkin Ell. My favorite perennial support band were Mr Rays Wig World. A defunct Liverpool combo of the early 90s who used to support at every gig in Liverpool from 91-92. They had a silly psychedelic frontman and one great song called Faster Pussycat. Ian Jackson may recall these? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:07:43 -0500 From: "Steve Loubert" Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Another radiohead fan (not) Alistair Tear said > I guess I'm one of the older listers ( maybe the oldest) I don't know, of course, but you may have some competition there. Any listers who were in their mid-20's in Wire's original heyday (like me) are pushing 50 now, so there could be a good number of geezers here. > & my theory, for what it's worth is that the appeal of > radiohead is largely to the younger end of the spectrum > I have no idea if this is true but I have a feeling that, like me, > if you've been listening to popular music since the 60's > you think, 'so what? they're nothing special at all...' I agree that there is too much being made of Radiohead as radical innovators. I liked Pablo Honey, The Bends, and OK Computer a lot. I could appreciate that Kid A was more experimental, in the sense that it was not what they had done before, but it also seemed like an experiment in boredom. Way too slow, not enough happening. Amnesiac seems a little more interesting, but it's pretty much just background music to me. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:18:01 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Most ill conceived gig line up during the ramones' last tour, circa may of '96, in little rock their opening act was some unfortunate swagger-rock outfit called the almight ultrasound, i believe. no, they weren't a local band, & in fact were on a major label. the horror. of course, a couple of months after that, the reunited pistols played memphis with a couple of nine-inch-nail wannabe acts opening, gravity kills & stabbing westward. strange summer, that. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:08:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another Radiohead fan On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans > ;-)) >> > > Indeed. I find the anti-Radiohead attitudes baffling. Criticism seems to be > along the following lines: fine points deleted. Count me in the pro-Radiohead camp as well. I just picked up _Amnesiac_ today and have listened to it only 1.5 times, but so far so good. My thoughts on the backlash thing are available by following the link in my .sig, if any damns are given. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::I suspect that the first dictator of this country will be called "Coach":: __William Gass__ np: Kraftwerk _The Man-Machine_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:31:19 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of MarkBursa@aol.com >> Sent: 05 June 2001 22:10 >> To: idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mismatched opener >> >> >> I've been trying to think of a real mismatch, but the nearest I >> can come up >> with is Subway Sect (in full jazzy tuxedo mode) sandwiched between the >> Birthday Party and Bauhaus. You'd have expected Vic to be >> bottled off stage >> by hordes of snarling goths, but it seemed to work OK, and the >> crowd enjoyed >> it.... >> >> Mark Was it '76/77 when the Telvision/Blondie & Talking Heads/Ramones tours were running at the same time? I remember the NME commenting that it would have been better as Tv/TH & B/R AndyL Oh yes, just remembered Curved Air supported by Jonn Foxx Ultravox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:11:32 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] (NOT)Another Radiohead fan > >I think they would be more popular on this list if they only had 27 fans > >;-)) > > I think this cuts closer to the truth. Just like with Nirvana ten years > ago, almost every review or conversation about them has to begin with a > reference to their popularity. This is unfortunate in both cases, as the > whole "more-alt-than-thou" backlash is drowning out some > spectacular music. > > later, > > listowner Miles, > who vividly remembers that many of the > same people who told him in August '91 > what a great album NEVERMIND was > turned into selective "Amnesiacs" after > it hit #1, calling the album a "sellout" > and compaining about its "commercial" > production values, as though the music > itself had changed in the interim Sorry to say that I still maintain this attitude. I just don't believe that innovative music can be released by a major label and also achieve commercial success - either one of those is possible, but both together just don't make sense, as far as the music industry goes nowadays. Beatles utopia still causes some people to think that this can happen - that you can be both in the mainsteam and innovative circles, but this is not the 60's, and it hasn't been for the last 30 years. I remember when Smells Like Teen Spirit slowly climbed the charts. I didn't know much about Nirvana, except for the gossip about Cobain & Love, whose band Hole I quite liked (their first lineup was really good - and they were great live). I liked the song, but didn't think too much of it - it essentially was what Nirvana were about - taking the punk aesthetics and turning them to pop. When it continued climbing the charts I started to have a bad feeling about that. When it got to number 1 I knew that the Indie/Alternative days of the 80's were over. This could look like the usual paranoid suspicion of any commercial success, but it seems to prove itself every time. Music industry today is even worse than it was 10 years ago. I don't hate Radiohead - I think they're a decent enough band. To be honest, they never did anything that really aroused my interest, but never did anything that really pissed me off. I just don't believe that major recording label artists can be trully innovative, because innovation, by its nature, challenges the status quo, which is something that the industry has to be against. Enough studential anti-establishment theories from me, cheers giluz ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #175 *******************************