From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #173 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, June 4 2001 Volume 04 : Number 173 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] next to wire [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - minidisc, yes or no? [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - bad vinyl [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT - James/'Later...' [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] james ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] vinyl fetishists ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] analogue v. digital ["david mack" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT - ex-Fall ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] OT: DVD vs video [Wireviews ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: DVD vs video ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] vinyl fetishists ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] Re: [idealcopy] OTthen OnTthenOT - bad vinyl/bad audio tape ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Re: OT - bad vinyl ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: OT - James/'Later...' ["ian jackson" In my collection Wire reside in this run of W's: > Wailers/Walking Seeds/The Wall/Wartime (one off H > Rollins thing)/Wild Flowers (used to play five a side > against them)/Win/Wire/Wishing Stones/Wolfgang > Press/Wolfhounds/Woodentops/World Domination > Enterprises /////// ah , there's some great memories in there. 2 classic tracks spring to mind ; "hobby for a day" and "asbestos lead asbestos". and one duffer ; win's "dusty heartfelt" (chronic re-make of "telegram sam"). must go check my shelves out later....p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 04:43:46 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - minidisc, yes or no? quick dumb question ; has any wire stuff been issued as pre-recorded minidiscs? this format seems to have never got off the ground properly for resons i can't quite see ; it seems to have loads going for it but very few people seem to actually buy it. poor marketing i guess? p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 05:05:49 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - bad vinyl In a message dated 02/06/01 18:25:18 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > I used to hate that sinking feeling when you bought a really shit pressing, > only to take it back, change it and get another one of the same batch > that was just as shit.] > > i had murder with Magazine's 'Secondhand Daylight' when it came out. > i think i took it back 4 times!!!and the one i kept was still shit!! > happy days... > > ///that used to be done deliberately by big labels as a form of hype ; each > copy you got was registered as a sale...... p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 05:14:18 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - James/'Later...' In a message dated 03/06/01 01:12:30 GMT Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > didn't know about this. i'm guessing that this was right after the infamous > 'you lucky fuckers' incident with 'The Tube' programme in the UK. > > /////// "groovy fuckers" , actually (sorry to be pedantic). very few of > whom are sighted on later of late. p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 06:20:16 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] james I rather liked the first album (in it's time) as well I don't go back to it as often as say, to my Wire recordings. Bought GOld Mother in it's day and was bored - pretty much the end for me. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 06:34:37 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] vinyl fetishists (couldn't resist the sub) PP's cleaning comments are instructive (thanks paul). I have had no adverse experiences with discwasher over the many years, but was always v. sparing w/ the fluid (more out of economic concerns). As to the expensive vacuum cleaners - some of the early disc cleaning machines took the high end with the dirt - don't know names or details, i jes steered clear after a couple friends' precious possessions were ruined. As to new pressing click pop - if the click was on the master - or if the presser used inferior vinyl - that's it. In the late 70's/early 80's there were a couple pressing plants in the US (Indiana in particular) which turned out a large volume of inferior pressings which caused many of us to develop a fetish for virgins. Polygram distributed titles (Polydor, RSO, Mercury) from this period were very sketchy, RCA had a terrible run with their DynaGroove technology (never heard a DynaGroove I liked). I was recently informed that there is nothing chemically inferior about recycled vinyl, and that hi-fi buffs now prefer it because it is harder and wears better. However that is only when it is recycled properly. All of PPs other comments hold true, though I suspect his rig is technically superior to the most of us. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 06:43:40 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] analogue v. digital i cannot beleive that no one has mentioned the one major discriminating factor... have you ever tried to clean the seeds out on a jewel box? the superiority of a gatefold sleeve is self-evident case closed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 15:04:53 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT - ex-Fall > giluz wrote :- > Nothing ever prevented an ex-Fall member to return to the Fall. I think > maybe 50% of the people that got thrown out returned for an album or two > before leaving again (Brix, Bramah, Riley, Burns, etc.). But as much as I > like Scanlon, I think Hanley should be MES' biggest regret - certainly one > of the best bass players ever. > > can't remember if anyone else picked up on this already giluz, > but surely not Riley? i think the 'schism' was too big in that case, > although punch-up's with Burns didn't stop him coming back... Sorry, my mistake... giluz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 05:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: [idealcopy] OT: DVD vs video "i was staggerred how cheap they are now." It's a dying breed, and unlike certain other formats, there's no need for VHS to survive for pros or something (like DAT did)... "i think the conclusion must be that the industry is going towards DVD bigtime." Go into any large chain store, like HMV and Virgin -- they are doing to VHS what they did to cassettes a few years ago; shove them at the back of the store and order ever-dwindling stocks. Mind you, the DVD regional thing is really pissing me off, especially now the big guns in America have added *another* layer of encryption in an atttempt to make multi-regional players fail... "still can't believe the DVD-R is taking so long to get together ; i think the problem is competing formats and fears of another betamax fiasco" The problem is that the competing alliances are all made up of very large companies and rather than all getting together and agreeing an ISO, they are fighting for potential royalty rights. Sad. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:04:27 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: DVD vs video > It's a dying breed, and unlike certain other formats, > there's no need for VHS to survive for pros or > something (like DAT did)... > Actually, I'm guessing that S-VHS will probably be around in the pro field for a little while. I notice that Panasonic ( http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/products/mnu_vtrs_vcrs.html ) is still listing those decks for professional use. Also, the digital 8 track Alesis ADAT audio recorders use S-VHS technology, although they don't record a standard S-VHS signal. You have to use S-VHS tapes in them, though. Just a couple of thoughts... (^_^) > Mind you, the DVD > regional thing is really pissing me off, especially > now the big guns in America have added *another* layer > of encryption in an atttempt to make multi-regional > players fail... Which encryption is this? Is this the "You have to be region 1 to play this disc" trick (as seen on Charlie's Angels, for example)? Or, is it something new? Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:40:51 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] vinyl fetishists > All of PPs other comments hold true, though I suspect his rig is technically > superior to the most of us. Oops - I don't think I've ever mentioned what I'm using for a turntable. I'm a firm believer in the budget audiophile theory. I really like cleverly engineered products, that are reasonably priced, but have fairly high quality, so I have an odd turntable. It's a Dual CS-530, which isn't very high end, but is (was?) respectably middle. The cartidge I use is an Ortofon OM-10, which, since they own Dual, happens to be a pretty near exact match for the CS-530's tonearm. Also, the OM-10 is moving iron, not moving magnet, so it has some of the sonic benefits of moving coil, without the need for a step up transformer. I aligned the whole thing myself, with the use of a few tools from a serious audiophile friend of mine (Dennessen Soundtractor, Technics quartz tracking force gauge, etc.). The turntable is connected to an old Kenwood receiver (back when they were pretty high quality), and is output through a pair of Speakerlab speakers (since Speakerlab is in Seattle, they're easy to get here.) For CDs, I have two Pioneer units - a CLD-3080 (combi CD/LD player) and a DV-414 (combi CD/DVD player) - which I generally connect digitally to my Sony 75-ES DAT player. The Sony can be used as a standalone DA converter, and it has much better sound than the CLD-3080's converters, although the DV-414 sounds pretty close. A fairly motley assortment of parts, all bought at cheap prices. Some of these components date to my college days - nothing I would consider high-end at all - well, except for maybe the DAT player. But, they give a pretty good "bang for your sonic buck". (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 19:33:52 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OTthen OnTthenOT - bad vinyl/bad audio tape > tim wrote :- > I used to hate that sinking feeling when you bought a really shit pressing, > only to take it back, change it and get another one of the same batch > that was just as shit.] ian s.j wrote:- > i had murder with Magazine's 'Secondhand Daylight' when it came out. > i think i took it back 4 times!!!and the one i kept was still shit!! > happy days... Ian B - I bought the first Pil album when it came out (loved the single). It jumped all over the place. Took it back - it jumped; and again. I'd had enough and got it swapped for the first Devo album. I was pretty relieved as I thought the Pil album was dreadful. Really awful. And another thing, on my IBTABA (the cassette version) when playing one side, a backwards version of the other side leaks through. Which reminds me, I once made my girlfriend a compilation tape of 'meaningful' songs (you know how it is) taping over some stuff I no longer listened to. It turned out that somehow a kind of ghost of what had been there was not erased (perhaps someone can explain technically how that could happen. On second thoughts...;-)) and what she was left with was various tracks and their gaps superimposed over quite faint but distinct Skinny Puppy. She was disconcerted and puzzled. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 19:21:07 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: [idealcopy] less than ideal copies and road music Ian B wrote:"I bought a copy of IBTABA that leaked through." I had the same thing happen, and had to go back three times before I got an okay copy....Also, I moved from the Arctic Circle (read: Wisconsin) back to Oregon for the summer this week..no one asked, but here are a few of the CD's that kept me sane while driving 2000 miles: Texas is the reason-Do you know who you are?Pere Ubu-Cloudland (reminded of it due to postings on this list)New Order-Low LifeCurve-DoppelgangerConsolidated-The myth of rockWire-CoatingsWire-The "A" listPixies-Death to the Pixies(Mostly the live disc)Fugazi-RepeaterPush Stars-After the party ( A grossly underrated band!)Camper Van Beethoven-Key lime pieSocial Distortion-Live at the RoxyReplacements-Tim Back from the sidelines,Kevin-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 15:14:45 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: [idealcopy] vinyl fetishists From: "Paul Pietromonaco" : > For CDs, I have two > Pioneer units - a CLD-3080 (combi CD/LD player) and a DV-414 (combi CD/DVD > player) - which I generally connect digitally to my Sony 75-ES DAT player. > The Sony can be used as a standalone DA converter, and it has much better > sound than the CLD-3080's converters, although the DV-414 sounds pretty > close. At the risk of sending in a "me too" post, I thought I'd mention something I've noticed. I have a Tascam DA-20 DAT recorder and I've been using it for all of my vinyl-to-CD/MP3 transfers, because the DAC in it is *noticeably* better than the DAC in either of the two digital sound cards I've used (a SoundBlaster Live and a Turtle Beach Pinnacle). There are surely some sound cards out there that come close, or are even better, but I'd guess that they probably cost nearly half as much as a DA-20 *without* also including a DAT recorder as part of the package... This is just my way of saying I'm still glad I bought the DA-20, even though hardly anybody on the internet trades DAT's these days -- just CD-R's. John "digital doody-o" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:42:11 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OT - bad vinyl PaulRabjohn wrote :- that used to be done deliberately by big labels as a form of hype; each copy you got was registered as a sale... really? you learn something new... this is part of the reason why i find this list so engrossing!!!! it would be interesting to form a list of such pressings and see which label was most guilty! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:46:00 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OT - James/'Later...' PaulRabjohn wrote:- "groovy fuckers" , actually (sorry to be pedantic). very few of whom are sighted on later of late. right paul, i stand corrected...it was late, mind you! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 17:49:05 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: To Be, or not to Beatles Save your grandparent's Beatle albums to give to your grandchildren! Profound?!?! Here is last month's Reason magazine online (1 month behind for subscription / newstands revenues): http://reason.com/0106/cr.cf.still.html Here is the secondary article (the long and whining road) as excerpted from 'Run for your life'. Save time and revert to this link for the complete version: http://suck.com/daily/2001/03/12/1pr.html The beat goes on ... a timeless full circle!?! Back '78-'79, in a way I thought Wire picked up where the Beatles left off, both filling and creating the voids of life! The Doors had such the name, and if each of their song's was a doorway ... Regards, voyteck PS: ... Light my Fire ... can't pass up shameless promotunities ... like 'torch it' lowdown here: http://www.burningman.com to fill the void, if you feel mysterious today, for a ritual view without sand in your joints from what your used to, it's so obvious you start to move to this strange blessed state. Explore link for touching displays of such musicians, artists, & misc craftsman's touch. Go ahead! Well beyond the normadelic; just beware of polkadelic operas! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 23:58:32 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Completism with a Schism I got possibly the very last new copy of Gilbert's Madrid remix 12" in the uK recently and Paul Rabjohn burnt me a CD of MP3 rarities he'd Napstered, so now I really only lack: Bruce Gilbert - Nervepath 2x7" (the one thing I'd consider paying silly money for, and yes I would open it of course) Wire - Mancape 12" (but its the worst track on the album so the remix isn't greatly tempting) Graham Lewis - The recent Rune Lindblad track ......WHAT IS IT LIKE? Wir - Slow So it Grow 7" or CDS, never heard the b-side Nice From Here? Malka Spigel - Rosh Ballata (used to have it but it got stolen) Wire - some of the CD only tracks (crap Ahead remix, crap Ur Um remix, The Drill bonus live Drill) The worst thing Wir(e) ever did is that Erasure remix, and if you hear that it might well put you off 'completism'. I keep my Wire CD's and solo things together sometimes or all over the place. Sometimes they are on a table, sometimes in a machine, other times in my hand or in a pile or occasionally they fall over. Who fuckin' cares??? As for the records, they live in a cardboard box alongside The Fall, Joy Division, New Order, Magazine, Swell Maps, Thirst (worthwhile Bramah / Burns out-o-Fall 12"), Adult Net, WalkingSeeds, Mel-O-Tones, Loop, Main, Hair & Skin Trading Company, My Bloody Valentine. Quite proud not to have any records by The Who like (twats). Howard mentioned his voting inclinations... The Labour Party - I'd rather kill them all (alright spare Tony Benn & Alan Simpson) than vote for the lying bastards (and that goes equal for the Tories) I vote Green every time (and help deliver Green Party newsletters) I'd do more but the planet is obviously doomed and there are plenty more where this one came from anyway. Now that licensing has possibly scuppered the Wire gig I declare WAR on all LAW and all POLITICIANS who would impose it! Death to control!!!!! So anyone got a copy of Nervepath they don't like much? Just heard last track off new Radiohead album - like a 10th rate watered down Robert Wyatt rip off ie. total shite as usual! Well at least they didn't ask Smashy Pumpky out to play!!! Lock up your hats! Graeme ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #173 *******************************