From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #169 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, June 1 2001 Volume 04 : Number 169 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT - minidisc, yes or no? ["ian jackson" ] [idealcopy] Re: women of the world ["david mack" ] [idealcopy] next to wire ["david mack" ] Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames [eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang)] Re: [idealcopy] IAITB [Miles Goosens ] [idealcopy] catch the... word [JH3 ] [idealcopy] organizational tendencies [J S ] [OT] Fall Humor (was Re: [idealcopy] catch the... word) ["Paul Pietromona] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:04:21 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - minidisc, yes or no? general shout out to all, particularly the 'techno-heads'... as i've mentioned before on the list, my old cassette tape deck died a few weeks ago, i'm seriously considering a portable minidisc player to replace it, over anything else. however, there have been conflicting opinions, just recently, about the pro's and con's of this format. i'd appreciate a few more views on this before i splash out (but nothing too detailed please!). eg, will minidisc last a while as a format? comparisons to other digital recording methods, prices...that kind of thing, thanks in anticipation, ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:26:13 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Vinyl Crap! Digital Good! >I have some vinyl which I only had because I couldn't afford a CD player >in the late 80s. I have no affection for it. Its too big, its too easy >to break, you can't play it on your walkman, it scratches, it skips, it >cracks and worse of all it varies the pitch like crazy, its not >portable, and you have to change it over!. Ah, yes, but CDs have their own problems. Unrepairable skips when scratched on the data side (the label side - which is too easy to scratch - only a thin lacquer coating), rising THD as signal level drops (100% THD at lowest signal level if you don't dither), insufficient sample rate, insufficient bit depth. Sure, CDs are great - - I'm not denying that. But, they're not a panacea, either. The reason everyone was so enamored of vinyl was primarily due to the higher resolution of an analog waveform - basically, it's not broken down into small, quantized steps. It's a infinitely continuous waveform - unless the master tape is digital. (^_^) Yes, vinyl is scratchy, etc. But, it also had more resolution. And, your records may outlast your CDs in long-term storage. There is some research that indicates a 75-100 year lifespan for aluminum based optical media, regardless of how frequently the CD is played. If you store records properly, and don't play them too frequently, they can easily last far longer than that. (At one point, I wrote a good summary with the pros and cons of vinyl vs. CD and posted it to the list. If I find it again, I'll repost it.) Luckily, the consumer electronics companies have come to our rescue! (^_^) DVD-Audio and/or Sony's SACD. Finally, a digital format approaching the resolution of vinyl, with the benefits of CD. I can hardly wait for the day when 24 bit/96 kHz audio is the norm, not the exception. >Minidisc is superb though. Never fancied them. The compression bothers me. Sorry. (^_^) At least CDs and DATs are uncompressed. Digital compression artifacts ruin most of the new formats for me. But, then again, I can hear the resolution in vinyl, which makes me part of a dying breed, I suppose. (^_^) >I take it no-one will be mourning the loss of the VHS format when it is >finally taken over by DVD? Frankly, I'm not a big fan of DVD. Too many visible compression artifacts for my liking. DV has a better tradeoff of quality versus bandwidth - but, unfortunately it's tape based. VHS, I'll mourn a little. It's sorta like vinyl. Just as they're phasing it out, they finally iron out most of the consumer complaints - but nobody cares. My latest VHS player has SVHS circuitry, and a time base corrector. The picture on SVHS tape compares quite favorably to the DVDs I record. (Note - this is in America with NTSC. I can't tell you how well the deck records PAL) But, it's definitely going the way of the dodo bird. (^_^) No, mostly I'll be mourning the loss of LaserDisc.... I have over 1000 titles in my collection. ...but that's another e-mail thread! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 12:51:29 +1000 From: "Phillip Blakeney" Subject: [idealcopy] Vinyl vs digital sorry I started all this collector stuff again! The 'why you prefer vinyl or digital' argument, causes me to repeat the view that it's fond memories of the LP package compared to the tiny CD version that causes vinyl nostalgia.....that feet up, close and personal experience with a top gatefold cover, that you just can't get with a CD insert. If you didn't grow up with this perhaps you wouldn't understand. BUT....I ask myself, how does that explain collecting vinyl 7" picture sleeves? I must stop thinking. Which reminds me- there can be no more ridiculous marketing concept than the 'picture CD' !! Phillip - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:54:49 -0500 From: "squonk" Subject: [idealcopy] ACH an old roommate of mine (male) back in da day of analogue had interesting filing habits he would bring a new album home and time each track with a stopwatch recording the *correct* track listing an times on a 3x5 card (filed alphabetically) he then replaced the record in the sleef with the Side A label facing straight up this individual was *not* particularly fastidious in all other aspects of life, favouriong the then fashionable nylon 'parachute pants' because one could sponge them off and not waste time in the laundry he has mellowed since the advent of CDs and the general onslaught of life (and improved his personal hygene as well as his wife would attest) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:48:31 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: women of the world or was it jim o'rourke? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:05:51 -0500 From: "david mack" Subject: [idealcopy] next to wire damn! my third post tonite - sorry miles ;) wire is nestled between Paul Winter and Jah Wobble at this locale colin resides between NO and herbie nichols dome between eric dolphy and the domnamatrix sleeps tonite and bruce's neighbours are paul giger and astrud gilberto how can you argue with logic like that? "it is no accident that music an mushrooms are together in the dictionary" - john cage ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames Alphabetization/storage/clutter: << in the fine modular storage units of the CanAm company >> I also use CanAm cabinets to store my alphabetized CDs where Wire can be found between Warsaw and World Party. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:23:17 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IAITB Me, then Craig: >>>The only way I could like BROCHURE better would be >if it was a release of the *entire* RFH show. > > >I thought that at first, but some of that show was a >bit ropey sound-wise. I think you and I discussed this for a bit after the show, but people's perception of the sound of the show seems to have varied wildly depending on their location. Melissa and I were just about dead center both ways (from front to back, and left to right), and the sound was magnificent -- we could hear all four members clearly, yet every instrument had some extra punch (especially from Graham's bass) when needed. Apparently that wasn't the case from all vantage points, unfortunately. >I think the best Wire tracks >ended up on the CD. I have no problems with what they picked, but I'd love to have "Mercy," "Madman's Honey," "Two People in a Room," "A Serious of Snakes," "Strange"... only thing I can think of that might be disposable or in need of editing is "Heartbeat," and only because of its extended use with the ballet troupe... later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:12:34 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: [idealcopy] catch the... word That's another thing, Miles... There'd be more postings if the list's address were in the Reply-To line, not the poster's! I for one am usually too embarrassed to send the things on to the list after I've messed that up... But anyway: >Over Memorial Day weekend, we dropped below 200 listmembers for the first >time since the middle of 1998. While this is nothing like a significant >exodus (I think we've been at 225 at the highest), I think idealcopy would >be more likely to retain its membership and even grow in numbers if it >became a bit more of a community. You've gotta figure Miles G. has been on the Internet long enough to know that *everybody's* subscriber list shrinks after the school year is over. And hey, it just ended, so don't worry about it, man! It'll pick up again in the Fall! Speaking of which... >To that end, I would like more of the membership to post, even if only >occasionally. We need more folks to speak up about their thoughts, >inclinations, and alphabetization proclivities. Well, all right then, in spite of what I've just said... >Are there any list members who DON'T >feel any need to be completists? That depends on what's meant by "completist," doesn't it? There are so many different levels... I suspect most of us here have every Wire album, and at least half of us have every officially-released b-side in some form or other (I'd fall into that latter category, probably). But as for the rest, well, some of the more obscure solo stuff is extremely hard to find... I'd be surprised if more than a dozen people out of the 200- minus on this list have *absolutely everything.* >///// i never met a male music fan who didn't store >everything in alphabetical order. i've never met a woman >who could be bothered to store anything (books , records , >whatever) in alphabetical order. discuss. p Both my wife and I do the same thing(s) - music in alpha order except for fave bands which are stored on separate shelves; books in no real order other than keeping titles by the same author together; videotapes, diskettes, data CD's, and photos in no order whatsoever. Who has time? >and , apropos of nothing , that luxuria japanese box-set >went for $222. fuck me that is a lot of money. i don't >think i've ever seen a "post punk" item go for that much. At those prices, you could actually make a profit by hiring a fabrication shop to build your own custom-made boxes and short-run printed sleeves, and put the standard-issue CD's inside... In fact, that's probably just what these people are doing! And finally, I've never liked the Fall. I apologize to all the Fall fans out there; feel free to call me a philistine if you like. (I did see them live once.) I also stopped acquiring New Order's stuff pretty much after hearing their first album. John "I keep forgetting about that body-search" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:45:53 -0700 (PDT) From: J S Subject: [idealcopy] organizational tendencies Briefly Slipping out of lurk mode... I'm pretty vanilla, I suppose, in my alphabetizing - if it's vaguely pop, it's on the big shelf ABC at the top, Zappa at the bottom, then chronological. If I feel like it, the spin offs, solo projects and tributes go after (Bowie [space oddity to hours], Tin machine, Reeves Gabrels solo, Crash Course For the Ravers....um, I'm a completist of sorts for Bowie). Bauhaus, Peter Murphy & Love n Rockets are all separated, though. Soundtracks and the occasional broadway cast are just alphabetical order then jazz & classical. Several years ago I had a friend who organized his discs by spine color - so all the discs with white spines and red lettering went together. I asked my wife if I could do that and she said absolutely not. Now that I'm single, I've just not felt the need to even try. I don't think I'd know to look for the New York Dolls' first album if it was next to the Legendary Pink Box instead of next to Pretty Hate Machine. And the mix this week has included BOC's Tyranny & Mutation (which used to be a great deal more unlistenable than it is now), Kid A, The Bobs' first album, Grandaddy's Sophtware Slump, and Suede's Dog Man Star. ~Joseph - ---------------------- this is sig free zone today _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 01:16:01 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [OT] Fall Humor (was Re: [idealcopy] catch the... word) > And finally, I've never liked the Fall. I apologize to all the > Fall fans out there; feel free to call me a philistine if you > like. Okay - you're a philistine. (Remember - you asked for it! (^_^)) > (I did see them live once.) How were they? I regret never having seen them live. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #169 *******************************