From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #168 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, May 31 2001 Volume 04 : Number 168 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] IAITB [Wireviews ] RE: [idealcopy] IAITB ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] collective completism & quantum mechanics [HeySean@aol.co] RE: [idealcopy] IAITB [Wireviews ] [idealcopy] Wire Boots ["DAN L ROSE" ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire Boots [voyteck@webtv.net] RE: [idealcopy] Blank Canvas in the RFH ["giluz" ] Re: [idealcopy] These Records Collect New Orders [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Solo Fall (was collective completism) [MarkBursa@aol.] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) [PaulRabjohn@aol.co] RE: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) ["giluz" ] [idealcopy] [OT] Radiohead's Amnesiac is on-line ["Paul Pietromonaco" ] [idealcopy] Cancel your order [MrSodium@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames [michaela_s ] Re: [idealcopy] catch the word, don't refrain! ["JH3" ] Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] catch the word, don't refrain! [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup!! ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] WhitechapelVernacular ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] world-class anality [Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey ] [idealcopy] Sex Pistols Granada TV Thing [Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] IAITB >>The only way I could like BROCHURE better would be if it was a release of the *entire* RFH show. I thought that at first, but some of that show was a bit ropey sound-wise. I think the best Wire tracks ended up on the CD. However, I would have liked to see the rest of the He Said set in some way. Thankfully, the other highlight of the night, "Blank Canvas", ended up on "Swim Team One"... Craig. ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:49:06 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] IAITB > I thought that at first, but some of that show was a > bit ropey sound-wise. I think the best Wire tracks > ended up on the CD. However, I would have liked to see > the rest of the He Said set in some way. Thankfully, > the other highlight of the night, "Blank Canvas", > ended up on "Swim Team One"... When was Blank Canvas on? Could it be that I missed it? - the only connection I could see is Immersion using the video clip that was later released as Blank Canvas on the compilation video for one of their tracks. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:38:49 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] collective completism & quantum mechanics Did anyone ever think how this could be the perfect example for Quantum Mechanics? Instead of talking about cats whose owner has an absurd name such as Schrodinger, you can have an example any school kid would understand. The card is both in the box and not in the box as long as you don't open it - the quantum existence of the card (the potential) is what gives it its worth, and not the actual existence of it - wicked. giluz Balls to that Giluz! I want the feckin' card! :) And by the way Schrodinger's probabaility wave as found in the Copenhagen Interpretation is now seen as quaint compared to modern thought. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:53:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: RE: [idealcopy] IAITB - --- giluz wrote: > When was Blank Canvas on? Could it be that I missed it? - the only > connection I could see is Immersion using the video clip that was later released as Blank Canvas on the compilation video for one of their tracks. And the track playing during that video (the one where Colin is holding up a piece of card with various stuff printed on) at RFH was "Blank Canvas"... C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:56:06 -0400 From: "DAN L ROSE" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Boots Hey, Just discovered the list and I'm wondering if anyone knows anybody w/ Wire bootlegs wanting to trade or something. BIG Wire fan, have everything the guys have done together, most solo and I'm looking to expand. Help!!! Thanks. Dan Dan L. Rose, Psy.D. Licensed Psychologist Coordinator, Intern Education Columbus State University Counseling Center ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:50:07 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Boots Dan asks about possible 'bootleg Wire' trades. Sorry Dan, all mine were "shrink wrapped"! (door open / couldn't resist!) Welcome to IC! Check through: http://welcome.to/wireviews http://www.pinkflag.com and some now sound at: http://patrick.op.het.net.je/wire/ (office background music?) Dugga-Dugga-Dugga! Regards, voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:49:38 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Blank Canvas in the RFH > > When was Blank Canvas on? Could it be that I missed > it? - the only > > connection I could see is Immersion using the video > clip that was later released as Blank Canvas on the > compilation video for one of their tracks. > > And the track playing during that video (the one where > Colin is holding up a piece of card with various stuff > printed on) at RFH was "Blank Canvas"... > Are you sure about that? I'm asking because I don't really remember - I just remember the clip and that I really enjoyed the track, but I remember thinking it was a very typical Immersion track, while Blank Canvas is not really, because it's guitar-based and not oscillator based. So is this just my recollection? giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:27:09 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] These Records Collect New Orders Tim, << And of course most of the first two LPs. Leave Me Alone sounds like Low or Galaxie 500.<< Who of course covered Ceremony rather well... >> This 12" is > well worth hearing, and is the only place you can get > Joy Division's classic 'As You Said' which appears > uncredited on the flipside. I think they're repressing > Video 586 as a Cd soon. I've got the CD which alas doesn't feature As You Said, although it does have a cool sticker on it from Touch which says 'This Barcode Does Not Work' It is on the Heart and Soul Box Set though, and also on a 7" that came with a crap lyric book from the people who made the Exploded Views thing. Mine skips. Hence the vinyl-scepticism.<< There is a CD version of the same thing which I have. >>Very curious track though, wonder what the context was...seems to indicate that Joy Divison would have gone the way of New Order even if Ian hadn't decided to step off this mortal coil.<< It's not actually called As you said. It's really called INcubation, and the guitar instrumental on the flexi is called Cross of Iron. >> Is it my imagination or did Tortoise do a cover of this somewhere?<< With Xylophone solo? ;-) >> Do you not like the Brotherhood album which has several 'Sunrises' on it IMO?<< Terrific and underrated album. >> The New Order Isolation is certainly the best thing they have done since Technique.....and I believe is mostly the work of Stephen Morris.<< In many ways he's the key man in New Order. Some of the songs are total Morris compositions (eg Procession). Much more than "just the drummer". (See also Bill Berry in REM). > New Order were the first band I ever went to hear play > a gig BTW - First band I ever saw too! But in the G-mex in 1988. Different kettle of fish altogether.<< Well I saw the first time New Order played! But my first gig was er...Steve Harley and Cockney Rebel, supported by Sailor.... >> Not Spam and on message, if not on list. I seem to recall a feature on these records in Mojo or Wire or something. Isn't the retail shop basically someones front room with no obvious shop front or anything? And you have to press the bell to get in? Sounds scary! >> That's the one. In an obscure part of S-E London. Keep meaning to go there one day! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:40:35 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Solo Fall (was collective completism) Giluz, << Nothing ever prevented an ex-Fall member to return to the Fall. I think maybe 50% of the people that got thrown out returned for an album or two before leaving again (Brix, Bramah, Riley, Burns, etc.). But as much as I like Scanlon, I think Hanley should be MES' biggest regret - certainly one of the best bass players ever. >> The thing that prevents them from returning is Mark E Smith, who introduced the policy after Brix's last return I think. MES should have given Hanley shares in the Fall. Although the last album is superb, they're just not the same live without Hanley wrestling with his bass. Genius. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:59:01 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) In I think my Adult Net collection extends to one single, purchased in a bargain bin. I do have the first three Marc Riley singles and the first album, though I lost interest after then. /// you know i quite liked the first few adult net singles , weren't most of the fall playing on the first couple? i think they recorded an album that got scrapped , the one they put out was a bit bangles/belinda carlisle in places but i thought it had its moments. at a guess the first bash would have been a lot more fall-esque. i certainly think the first few AN singles were way better than anything lard came up with , i was always very underwhelmed by the creepers.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:34:28 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) > In I think my Adult Net collection extends to one single, > purchased in a bargain bin. I do have the first three Marc Riley > singles and the first album, though I lost interest after then. > > /// you know i quite liked the first few adult net singles , > weren't most of the fall playing on the first couple? i think > they recorded an album that got scrapped , the one they put out > was a bit bangles/belinda carlisle in places but i thought it had > its moments. at a guess the first bash would have been a lot more > fall-esque. i certainly think the first few AN singles were way > better than anything lard came up with , i was always very > underwhelmed by the creepers.p I've got an Adult Net single with a great cover of Rebellious Jukebox - certainly sounds like the Fall are playing there. giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:47:05 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] catch the word, don't refrain! Over Memorial Day weekend, we dropped below 200 listmembers for the first time since the middle of 1998. While this is nothing like a significant exodus (I think we've been at 225 at the highest), I think idealcopy would be more likely to retain its membership and even grow in numbers if it became a bit more of a community. To that end, I would like more of the membership to post, even if only occasionally. We need more folks to speak up about their thoughts, inclinations, and alphabetization proclivities. The less outgoing among us may perceive idealcopy as a discussion where only a half-dozen or so voices are regularly heard, instead of what I hope we all think idealcopy is, an interesting discussion that folks should jump into feet-first. No one should feel intimidated or excluded, and if you've been waiting for your invitation to post, consider this to be it. I'm not encouraging anyone to post less, but a scan of digest table-of-contents (just hop to http://www.smoe.org/lists/idealcopy for the archives) gives some idea of the preponderance of our more garrulous sorts. Put your own name just below the title and speak up! paint it red, light it in blue, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:32:18 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] alphaJames Alphabetization/storage/clutter: Like all generalizations, the "female Feng Sui conspiracy" might have a grain of truth but I would think that women who dig Wire or the Fall would be much more likely to have alphabetization/storage habits that are more similar to male listmembers than the methods (or lack thereof) of non-music-obsessives in general. For instance, while I'm in charge of our music collection, my wife shares my tastes and has never complained about the collection. However, I've always kept it alphabetized fairly neatly, whether in shelving units or, more recently, in the fine modular storage units of the CanAm company , so it may not be committing the aesthetic faux pas of other collections. :-) We have at least six or seven identifiably female list members who I encourage to delurk and give evidence that females should not be tarred with the broad brush of anti-collectionism! As Jeffrey, aaron, and other fellow Loud-Fans can attest, the Game Theory/Loud Family list has a higher proportion of actively-posting females, and the alphabetization/storage thread comes up there regularly. I think my "music-obsessive vs. non-music-obsessive" countertheory holds up with them, too. I think about my brother-in-law, who tosses cassettes and CDs all over his room and his car and has to stumble through an alarming pile of loose CDs and cassettes, empty jewel cases and tape cases, and cigarette detritus to find anything, and the divide doesn't appear to be so gender-based. :-) And someone's gotta stick up for James! I think James became a very good band once they began working with Eno on LAID, creating a brand of emotionally-resonant music that is much greater than the sum of the parts, even if one of the parts is Tim Booth's tremendous voice. MILLIONAIRES was a bit of a stumble, but LAID, WAH-WAH, and WHIPLASH were all splendid. As for the "U2" vocal comparisons that dog Booth and Radiohead's Thom Yorke, Bono would sell whatever residue of grease that's left of his soul to sing with the power, touch, and heart of either gent. Mock at your peril, and your loss. later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:23:58 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Radiohead's Amnesiac is on-line Hi everyone, For those of you, like myself, who have resisted the temptation to Napster the new Radiohead album, Capitol Records has put the whole album on line. If you have DSL, or cable modem, the quality is excellent. Check it out: http://music.hollywoodandvine.com/playra.asp?ClubID=0&TranSpeedTypeID=5&Con tentTypeID=2&MediaAttributeID=5&TrackID=1595&Single=1 If that doesn't work, just surf to http://hollywoodandvine.com/radiohead and follow the links. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:31:32 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: weird shit Me and Dan Quayle like Potatoe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Wireviews Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Blank Canvas in the RFH - -- Wireviews wrote: > > And the track playing during that video at RFH was "Blank Canvas"... - --- giluz wrote: > Are you sure about that? Yup -- same as on the Swim~ video. The full Immersion set-list was: Expanded Now, Days Under the Sun, Les Iles Flottantes ('not arriving' version), Dahab, Blank Canvas. C ===== - ------- Craig Grannell / Wireviews --- http://welcome.to/wireviews News, reviews and dugga. VMU: http://listen.to/veer SVA: http://welcome.to/snub - -------------- wireviews@yahoo.com --- Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:06:46 EDT From: MrSodium@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Cancel your order I used to organize, but then I had kids. Now its all I can do to keep the Barbies, blocks, cookie crumbs, and other assorted detritus from underfoot. Something had to give, and it was my lovely order. Now there are stacks everywhere. The unexpected benefit of this, when coupled with my compulsive purchasing, is the rediscovery of something I bought and forgot without ever playing. It's like finding $5.00 from last winter in the pocket of your jacket. Where is the New Order version of "Isolation" referenced in a number of prior posts from? Is it in print/available? ~~Yesterday's cd purchases (all for a total of $40.00)~~ Karen Finley: A certain level of denial Tuxedomoon: Holy war Eagle Eye Cherry: Mama said knock you out cd single Texas: Summer Son cd single, with Moroder mix and cover of "Don't you want me" live from Glasto Opus III first album, w/ crap cover of "I talk to the wind" Grace Jones: Compass Point sessions 2cd Scannerfunk Sneaker Pimps: Low five and 10 to 20 cd singles Cj Bolland: Analogue Theatre Advance copy of the new Eno ambient cd due out on Astralwerks next month Lloyd Cole's new one and a cd single that is a pleasure so guilty that I'm too embarrassed to publicly acknowledge purchasing it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:28:18 +0200 (CEST) From: michaela_s Subject: Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames well, being one of the few female list members i will tell you my storage habits. i don't like alphabetical order, i prefer genre-units which are divided into different units of provenance, then label units - and in case there are quite important label artists - they again build a new unit. (i.e. electronica/warp/aphex twin). Wire have their own shelf as well as Cabaret Voltaire. of course vinyl and cds are separated and kept in different shelves but the storage order follows the same structure. i wouldn't like to have Wire next to The Who (which i still haven't sold). michaela ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:58:34 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] catch the word, don't refrain! Miles writes: >Over Memorial Day weekend, we dropped below 200 listmembers for the first >time since the middle of 1998. While this is nothing like a significant >exodus (I think we've been at 225 at the highest), I think idealcopy would >be more likely to retain its membership and even grow in numbers if it >became a bit more of a community. C'mon Miles, you've been on the Internet long enough to know that *everybody's* subscriber list shrinks after the school year is over. And hey, it just ended, so don't worry about it, dude! It'll pick up again in the Fall. Speaking of which... >To that end, I would like more of the membership to post, even if only >occasionally. We need more folks to speak up about their thoughts, >inclinations, and alphabetization proclivities. Well, all right then, in spite of what I've just said, I could probably do that. Let's see, going back a few days: >Are there any list members who DON'T >feel any need to be completists? That depends on what you mean by "completist," doesn't it? There are so many different levels... I suspect most of us here have every Wire album, and at least half of us have every officially-released b-side in some form or other (I'd fall into that latter category, probably). But as for the rest, well, some of the more obscure solo stuff is extremely hard to find... I'd be surprised if more than a dozen people out of the 200- minus on this list have *absolutely everything.* >///// i never met a male music fan who didn't store >everything in alphabetical order. i've never met a woman >who could be bothered to store anything (books , records , >whatever) in alphabetical order. discuss. p Both my wife and I do the same thing(s) - music in alpha order except for fave bands which are stored on separate shelves; books in no real order other than keeping titles by the same author together; videotapes, diskettes, data CD's, and photos in no order whatsoever. Who has time? I do think that most seemingly gender-based habits like this can be easily circumvented by parents who resist the urge to raise their kids to be just like everybody else, fitting into their predictable/stereotypical social roles, etc. That's just my opinion. >and , apropos of nothing , that luxuria japanese box-set >went for $222. fuck me that is a lot of money. i don't >think i've ever seen a "post punk" item go for that much. At those prices, you could actually make a profit by hiring a fabrication shop to build your own custom-made boxes and short-run printed sleeves, and put the standard-issue CD's inside... In fact, that's probably just what these people are doing! And finally, I've never liked the Fall. I apologize to all the Fall fans out there; feel free to call me a philistine if you like. (I did see them live once.) John "I keep forgetting about that body-search" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:32:19 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames In a message dated 31/05/01 17:58:21 GMT Daylight Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > I think James became a very good > band once they began working with Eno on LAID, creating a brand of > emotionally-resonant music that is much greater than the sum of the parts /////// not so sure about the rest of the album , but the title track is by far my favourite james track and probably the only boothsong i'd actually call "great". last thing they did i thought was remotely interesting though.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:28:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Solo Fall (was collective completism) Paul, << i certainly think the first few AN singles were way better than anything lard came up with , i was always very underwhelmed by the creepers.p >> The first single (Favourite Sister) is second only to the Blue Orchids in the Fall spin-off stakes. Basically the Hanley-Scanlon-Riley-Hanley Fall minus MES. Ca-ca-ca-cacophony! Thereafter it's OK but not as good. They wre quite entertaining live - saw them at the Fridge in Brixton once. But there was a general air of shambling indie-ness that gave the Creepers a limited shelf-life. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:37:58 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] catch the word, don't refrain! In a message dated 31/05/01 17:52:29 GMT Daylight Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > To that end, I would like more of the membership to post, even if only > occasionally. We need more folks to speak up about their thoughts, > inclinations, and alphabetization proclivities. I couldn't agree more Miles.I know I don't post very often & I'm not for a minute suggesting the regular post people are not interesting,but it's good to hear from the new or less vocal listees. I played the Michael O'Shea LP again last night for the first time in a while in anticipation of the new CD.It is a great piece of vinyl & the CD with it's extra items should be a real treat.Too knackered to post a recent list of O'Connell listening tonight (I'll have a go tomorrow),but I must mention a 4AD 4 track Magnetophone EP I picked up.It is fabulous.Also Mogwai's Rock Action is getting it's first few listens. It's more melencholy but still has a fair sprinkling of in yer face love it already cuts. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:15:04 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Stoppit and Tidyup!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Robinson > ?!?! > Words fail me, I shall (mis)quote the good Robert Wyatt: > > "Women of the World take over...cos if you don't this world will come to > an end....and it won't take long" Wasn't that Ivor Cutler? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:45:39 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] WhitechapelVernacular - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan J Noorda "> Sad news about the Vernacular event organised by Blast First. This is what the mute.com web-site says. The mentioned event due to take place later this year has been cancelled due to licence problems". Jan, in the just-out new edition of The Wire (for June 2001) all the events associated with this series are listed, many with individual adverts. Wire are advertised as due to play at the Whitechapel Gallery at 8pm on July 7th (tickets #15 (www.ticketweb.co.uk); on the same day an installation by Wire is open from 10am to 5pm at the same venue - admission free. Unsurprisingly the Pinkflag website has no news. Can anybody else confirm? The Wire also lists Bruce Gilbert as appearing June 4-7 at some London venue called Spitz (tel 020 7392 9032) along with several others. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:15:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: [idealcopy] world-class anality Okay, all this talk about completists, collectors, and categorization has once again drawn me to poke my head out from beneath the floorboards (that, and Miles's post - although I'm a middling poster on this list, you can all be thankful I post far less than I do on the Loud Family list...) Completists: some time back, someone said something about buying everything a beloved artist puts out even after it's clear it's shit. But it's not clear it's shit until you hear it - and given the BA's history of putting out beloved non-shit, you'd at least want to give them the chance to return to form. Still, after a while, one gives up...but for me, that might be many albums indeed if it's someone whose work I've enjoyed a lot and followed for a long time. Collectors: I'm only in it for the music, man - collecting has always struck me funny, as the stuff is only worth money if you *don't* have it - that is, if you have the rare, shrinkwrapped, Lesotho pressing of the very first single by a band whose manager once lived next door to a guy who later took the first known photograph of Bruce Gilbert's second cousin, it's only worth $3,000 if you *sell* it - at which point you don't have it. If you have it, it's worthless. So obviously all these folks are hoping it will someday be worth $30,000 - too much headache for me! Categorization: with some 5,000 CDs and a raft of other formats, I've gotta categorize or I'll never find any damned thing. At one point, too, I took inventory for insurance purposes (in an Excel spreadsheet) and have kept it up, so I know exactly what I have. Anyway, CDs are alphabetized by artist; albums by the same artist are filed chronologically (which means compilations and such give me headaches - more headaches!). Compilations, soundtracks, etc., are filed separately alpha by title. The sole genre-based exception to the above is classical - because who's the "artist"? The composer (what about multi-composer CDs?) The artist (what about "here's a bunch of Bartok by several musicians"?) So, with those recordings I take the extremely record-store geeky tack of filing alpha by label and numerically by catalog number within label. I don't separate genre because it's a headache (again!). Is a recording of Thelonious Monk works arranged and played by the Kronos Quartet "jazz," "classical," or something else? (I actually don't remember where I have that one filed...) My cassettes are a mess - they're almost all homemade, and some feature solely one artist, others have one artist on one side and another on the other side, and many are just compilations of leftover randomness (and many are mixtapes received from friends). Single artist get treated alphabetically, any multi-artist tape with a title (like mixtapes from friends) get filed as if they're "various artist," the rest are numbered, catalogued, stamped, filed, briefed, debriefed, and sent to visit Number 2 with a stern warning. More than you needed to know - my specialty. - --Jeff J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::Let's quit talking about it and start watching it on TV:: __Susan Lowry__ np: Quickspace _Supersport_ ... eh... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:58:16 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Vinyl Crap! Digital Good! Wireviews wrote: > CDs have absolutely no > collectable value to me as objects; They're more a commodity or (even worse) > a container; does anyone agree No. I'm no HI-FI Anoroak. But I've never really understood this. I'm a child of the 80s and therefore of the CD generation. Most of my favourite music was made in the last 15 years and therefore mixed to sound best in Digital anyway. I've only ever heard Wire on CD, and it sounds huge, punchy and fantastic. I can't believe the early LPs sound any better on vinyl. I have some vinyl which I only had because I couldn't afford a CD player in the late 80s. I have no affection for it. Its too big, its too easy to break, you can't play it on your walkman, it scratches, it skips, it cracks and worse of all it varies the pitch like crazy, its not portable, and you have to change it over!. I used to hate that sinking feeling when you bought a really shit pressing, only to take it back, change it and get another one of the same batch that was just as shit. I used to buy a lot of stuff on tape to avoid this. I've never understood people getting all misty eyed about crackle and hiss on records. If I play a record thats all scratchy I just wish I had it on CD! But Don't worry, snap crackle & pop fans! Digital mediums offer new kinds of error, distortion and randomness. They have a whole new set of glitches and bugs for the likes of me to get misty eyed about in my later years. Anyone got Digital TV? A whole new set of problems to replace the snow, tracking and analogue TV problems of old.... "And now on MTV....SPLICK....CLACK.....a blue screen with no sound" Minidisc is superb though. I've made myself a disc with the complete works of Dome on it. Play in shuffle mode, loop, re-arrange, edit, join bits of different tracks together and enjoy for hours of fun while on a long train journey. And it doesn't skip. Ever. And when you record from Analogue source to Minidisc (at least on my player) it compresses everything in a very pleasing way and beefs up all the right parts of the music that somehow CD-Rs don't do. I take it no-one will be mourning the loss of the VHS format when it is finally taken over by DVD? VHS was like cassettes only much worse...mushy sound, lousy picture..tacky to look at...ugh. Horrible things. Worst medium for anything ever. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:09:19 -0500 From: "Steve Loubert" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames From: michaela_s > i wouldn't like to have Wire next to The Who (which i still haven't sold). Never happen. That's where Whodini, "Wild in the Streets", Sonny Boy Williamson, Wild Turkey, and Johnny Winter go! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 01:10:01 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: [idealcopy] Sex Pistols Granada TV Thing The Lesser Free Trade Hall/Sex Pistols TV Show was pretty good tonight. Good history lesson for youngsters like me. Talking head memories from Wilson, Morley, Shelley, Devoto, Matlock, Jordan, Slaughter & The Dogs (manc singer in leather trousers, and another bloke in suglasses with a ludicrous LA transatlantic accent), Grizzly old Mark.E, Alan Hempsall (wasn't he a Crispy Ambulance?), Hooky plus a few people who just went in the audience. Good viewing. For some reason they chose to pad out the Show with pointles footage of the punks as they are today; Glenn Matlock playing Pretty Vacant at Life Cafe (cocktails/chicken in a basket bar on Peter Street, just across the road from the boarded up Free trade hall... with one bloke pogoing...) and then 3 long minutes of Slaughter & Dogs playing some dodgy European cider-punk festival. I can only assume the producer was a mate of theirs or something. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:44:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sex Pistols Granada TV Thing Tim, << Alan Hempsall (wasn't he a Crispy Ambulance?), >> Yep, he was/is the vocalist. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:55:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] alphaJames >> Never happen. That's where Whodini, "Wild in the Streets", Sonny Boy Williamson, Wild Turkey, and Johnny Winter go! >> Now look at what you made me do. I had to check what surrounds Wire in the collection - from WH-WO thus: Vinyl Barry White Whitehouse The Wild Swans Brian Wilson Win Wire Wirtschaftswunder Wishing Stones CDs Wheat When people were shorter and lived by the water Whiskeytown The Who Wilco Brian Wilson Wings Wire Wisdom of Harry Wishing Stones Stevie Wonder I'm particularly pleased with the Big Bazza/Whitehouse pairing, not to mention Wings next to Wire! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:07:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl Crap! Digital Good! Tim, Not something I get too worked up about these days, though I resisted CDs for ages at first, considering them nasty and tacky. Certainly I don't get misty eyed about pops and skips - that was always the worst thing about vinyl. But I do miss the proper sized artwork, not a poxy little book in a crap, brittle plastic box. OK, some people do take time on the packaging, but most of the time CD packaging is shite. And I certainly miss the concept of Side 1 and Side 2. The dynamics of 20-odd minutes, with great opening and closing tracks is always a joy, whereas 70 minute albums invariably have too many bloody filler tracks and therefore get boring halfway through. 12 tracks is the absolute maximum. But I can't get hung up, Steve Albini-style, on the dynamics of analogue versus digital. I understand the concepts, but I've probably been to 600 or so gigs in my life so I'm frankly too deaf to notice. And I'm pretty sure Mr Albini is too! So CD is fine, and Vinyl is fine, so long as you work within its limits. Minidisc seems a bit nasty though. I'm not in favour of miniaturisation for the sake of it! As for VHS, I agree with you. Roll on DVD-R. Can't be far off.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:06:52 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] These Records Collect New Orders MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Tim, > > << And of course most of the first two LPs. Leave Me Alone sounds like Low > or Galaxie 500.<< > > Who of course covered Ceremony rather well... and Low did a cover of Transmission, slowed the tempo right down. Its quite good. >>> Do you not like the Brotherhood album which has several 'Sunrises' on it >> > IMO?<< > > Terrific and underrated album. It is. Like all their pre-Republic albums it is under-produced, unpolished and thrown together in true New Order fashion. They always seemed to pour all their energy into making brilliant singles, leaving the LPS as an afterthought. Highlight is where Barney breaks into giggles during Every Little Counts, laughing at the lameness of his own lyrics. > >>> I believe is mostly the work of Stephen Morris.<< > > In many ways he's the key man in New Order. Last week it was Rob Gretton! Some of the songs are total > Morris compositions (eg Procession). I never knew that. thats one of my favourite New Order tracks. I always liked they way all their tracks were credited to the whole band. It must have rubbed off on me because in my own band even if I write a track entirely solo, its credited to both of us. It all works out in the end, like buying rounds of drinks, and we tend to write for each other, so the other person gets a credit for just existing! I always liked the fact that Give Peace a Chance was credited to Lennon/McCartney, even though Paul was nowhere near it. With Wire its quite interesting to see who wrote what though, especially as it seems to be different combinations of band members writing each track. Bruce wrote some of their best tracks on his own it would seem! Geezer! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:12:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] New Order - Isolation Someone asked about whether this was available... It's on the DVD of the Reading gig (3 16), along with NO versions of Atmosphere and Heart and Soul. All three tracks were also recorded for a Peel session, and they used to be available on Napster, before the bastards blocked 'New Order' off along with most other major label artists. Like you can buy the NO 1998 Peel session. Try Aimster, you might find them there. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:26:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] These Records Collect New Orders Tim, << and Low did a cover of Transmission, slowed the tempo right down. Its quite good.<< I've heard it, but wasn't too keen. Few JD/NO covers hit the spot for me - Galaxie's is a rare exception. >> It is. Like all their pre-Republic albums it is under-produced, unpolished and thrown together in true New Order fashion. They always seemed to pour all their energy into making brilliant singles, leaving the LPS as an afterthought. Highlight is where Barney breaks into giggles during Every Little Counts, laughing at the lameness of his own lyrics.<< The first three are largely collections of stuff written live, while Brotherhood and Technique were largely written in the studio. Not a prolific band (compared, say, to Wire) so you tended to get everything. Personally I prefer the albums to the singles post-Temptation. >> Some of the songs are total > Morris compositions (eg Procession). I never knew that. thats one of my favourite New Order tracks. I always liked they way all their tracks were credited to the whole band.<< See also - The Cure, REM. Robert Smith was particularly generous as he wrote absolutely everything. REM work a bit like New Order. Teenage Fanclub are another good democracy - each of the three songwriters gets four songs per album. >>It must have rubbed off on me because in my own band even if I write a track entirely solo, its credited to both of us. It all works out in the end, like buying rounds of drinks, and we tend to write for each other, so the other person gets a credit for just existing! I always liked the fact that Give Peace a Chance was credited to Lennon/McCartney, even though Paul was nowhere near it.<< They always stuck to their deal on the credits, admirably. >> With Wire its quite interesting to see who wrote what though, especially as it seems to be different combinations of band members writing each track. Bruce wrote some of their best tracks on his own it would seem! Geezer! >> Likewise I always look at Fall writing credits and marvel over the songs credited to just 'Smith'. Wonder how he writes the music? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:31:43 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Vinyl Crap! Digital Good! MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > And I certainly miss the concept of Side 1 and Side 2. The dynamics of 20-odd > minutes, with great opening and closing tracks is always a joy, whereas 70 > minute albums invariably have too many bloody filler tracks and therefore get > boring halfway through. 12 tracks is the absolute maximum. I think bands are starting to realise that just because CDs hold 74 mins doesn't mean they need to use the whole disc. Seems to be a trend back to the 45 minute mark. See the new Mogwai LP for example. On the other hand, a lot of electronica needs those extra minutes. The likes of Autechre need room to breathe which CD allows. > Minidisc seems a bit nasty though. I'm not in favour of miniaturisation for > the sake of it! Its not. I don't see MD as replacing CD, but its just nice for recording on. If they could drag the price of the players down it would make a nice replacement for Cassette. Superb for making compilations on (it records in real time, but you can then edit, fade, swap tracks round, chop bits out etc). And they are lovely little things! Autechre know this and have already made an album which is Mindisc only, (on Touch) and I believe are about to release another one. From a muso point of view, Minidisc is also a very good substitute for DAT which seems to be dying off. We used to use DAT for gigs till our machine broke. CD-R is no good as CD players skip when placed near a PA or Bass amp, but Minidisc don't! > > As for VHS, I agree with you. Roll on DVD-R. Can't be far off.... Yep. Can't wait to copy all my slowly deteriorating VHS's to DVD-R....The technology is already here but it should be affordable to the average human being by 2003 I reckon. Roll on! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #168 *******************************