From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V4 #152 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, May 18 2001 Volume 04 : Number 152 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: OT Residents recommendations ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] A potentially embarassing question... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents ["stephen graziano" ] Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents [Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk] [idealcopy] Why are verses resident? [=?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= <] [idealcopy] napster etc [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents ["ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: OT Residents recommendations I'd second the view that the best place to start would probably be "Our Tired, Our Poor, Out Huddled Masses" - but if you can get hold of it, the 4 CD copy is far better than the 2 CD set. I think EuroRalph still have some copies for sale. My, and many other Rez fans, personal favourite is "Not Available". Much of their work is difficult though, and choosing the wrong album to start with, could put you off for life. Visit www.theresidents.co.uk for reviews and fans comments on most of their work. It'll give you a good idea of where to start (and it's a far better site that the official Residents web site!) Good luck! Rezmole PS Almost forgot - perhaps the best place to start would be with the Icky Flix DVD (not the soundtrack album, which only contains the new soundtracks). The DVD covers the groups whole career, contains discography (not very detailed), and much more. It's great value at about #20. PAL version can be got via EuroRalph, NTSC via Ralph America (links from the web site above). This DVD really does show that you can do much more with DVD than just dump a load of live footage on. As usual, The Residents show the way forward! How many other groups have video and CD-Rom work in the Museum of Modern Art collection in New York???!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:49:09 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 12 Time You New Approach > 12 Times You opens the door to a new approach of > hacking up live performances into ever more > frantically hyper-rocking onslaughts. Germ Ship (new > Pink Flag style song from Edinburgh) would lend itself > brilliantly to similar treatment. Not so sure if He > Knows would benefit from it though. > > Then again its perhaps not such a new approach > considering IBTABA, where they took the live tracks to > bits and put them back again... and there's that > Strange sample that Take It is based on. Actually it is quite new. IBTABA was indeed made up of reorganised bits of live perormances plus overdubs, but it still tried to maintain the appearance of analogue songs, whereas the 12 Times You approach is about doing loop-based electronic music with analogue sources, reconstructing them in a way where they can be referred to as songs structurally, but still maintain the notion that they're assembled from loops. It is not merely a technological thing - technology now being far more advanced as far as audio manipulation goes than in the late 80's - it is a post-electronic concept that probably couldn't have been made prior to the 90's. 90's audio manipulation usually tried to conceal the analogue nature of its sources, and was also about using samples taken from other sources, not created independantly. The 12 Times You single does the opposite - it uses newly created samples, and tries to emphasise the fact that despite its reassemblance, the original source was done by a live band. cheers, giluz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 08:31:04 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A potentially embarassing question... Rick, << I've been following the v/vm thread for a while and have to say I have no clue who they are. So what does v/vm stand for? > Excellent. > The v/vm backlash is gathering momentum. Kind of sad I'm so out of the loop on a group that already has a backlash going! >> Volume Versus Mass. Backlash particpants stand at three at last count. But we're growing. Ultimately we will eradicate all wank student "humour" from music. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:49:08 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents I think what you're referring to is actually a 2lp set entitled: "Ralph Records 10th Anniversay Radio Special" - with host Penn Jillette, featuring the music of The Residents, Snakefinger, Tuxedomoon, Fred Frith, Yello, Renaldo & the Loaf, MX-80 Sound, Chrome, Art Bears - RR8502 c1982. The cover art is in black and white and features a suprisingly thin! Penn Jillette standing in front of the Bently motor inn where spent his incarceration. Each day is a track on on of the discs as runs about 13 minutes. For side 4, Ralph produced a sort of megamix entitled "10 Years in 20 minutes" The back cover notes read: In February, 1982 Ralph Records contactd Mr. Penn Hillette, a nationally known entertainer and announcer, to see if he was interested in involvement in Ralph's 10th Anniversary Radio Special. The format of the special, as specified in Mr. Jillette's contract, was unusual, but the salary was sufficient, so Mr. Hillette agreed. At 8:00 AM on Monday, March 1, Mr. Jillette entered room 312 of the Bentley Motor Inn at 465 Grove Street (directly across the street from the Ralph Headquarters) in San Francisco. The door was locked behind him. Mr. Hillette was to spend the next six day alone in this room. Each day he received a new package of records from Ralph. His job was to listen to and comment on these recordings. The Ralph Records 10th Anniversary Radio Special was compiled from more than 50 hours of tape recorded while Mr. Jillette was alone in his motel room. I don't have a good memory of how I aquired this record. I'm fairly sure it was never released commercially, and it dosen't have any press or promo only stickers on it, but it was a great listen at the time. Penn is really getting into the Residents until they flumox him with Eskimo - "Like tapping your foot to the wind". This record is not to be confused with the 2lp set of complete songs that Ralph also released commercially to celebrate their 10th anniversary, or the earlier "Frank Johnson's Favorites." >From: "ian jackson" >i take it that most Residents fans have heard the 'Penn' >cassette, where he pretends he's been locked in a hotel room >with only Residents lp's for entertainment... >this was my 'introduction' to them by a friend, about ten years ago. >i'm not a massive fan, but i like what they do. > >ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:53:25 -0400 From: "stephen graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents I personally think that one could stick w/ their 70's material, stop on Mark of the Mole and never miss any of the 80's stuff - some of it being real good I admidt - but the real "punk" or "revolutionary" Residents is Meet the Residents, Not Available, Third Reich and Roll, Buster Glen/Duck Stab, Eskimo, etc. If one were to only be allowed to listen to one Resident's track (and discounting any of those coglomeration things), which would it be? I pick "Beyond the Valley of a Day in the Life" >From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >To: hspencer@oup.co.uk, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:residents >Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:45:20 EDT > >In a message dated 5/16/01 11:47:14 AM, hspencer@oup.co.uk writes: > > >A high court judge question. To my knowledge, I have never heard > >anything by the Residents. Where might I start? > >there's so much good stuff to choose from...but i will say duck stab/buster >and glen! just fantastic! > >-paul c.d. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:59:57 +0100 From: Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents Arrrghh. >>>featuring the music of The Residents, Snakefinger, Tuxedomoon, Fred Frith, Yello, Renaldo & the Loaf, MX-80 Sound, Chrome, Art Bears - RR8502 c1982. Have you heard Renaldo??? 'Orrible noise. Stay clear of their The Elbow Is Taboo album. Chris. The Information in this communication is confidential and may be privileged and should be treated by the recipient accordingly. If you are not the intended recipient please notify me immediately. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:43:16 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Graeme=20Rowland?= Subject: [idealcopy] Why are verses resident? Why does there have to be a best band? I can understand ranking individual albums perhaps, as it gives a rough guide as to the best ones to listen to over any given period, but it seems to me that Wire have done such a varied body of work that it's impossible to rank it in relation to anyone else. Wire and the Residents are both unique and interesting bands, but Wire interest me enough to make me want to hear everything they've ever done whereas I've heard about ten Residents albums and don't really feel the need to hear anymore. I'm sure their gig will be entertaining though. People who saw them at the Hacienda years ago still talk about it as a highlight. Having said that, one of the many best bands in the world right now is DEATH AMBIENT, which features a certain Fred Frith alongside drum machinist Ikue Mori and bassist Kato Hideki. Mori also played in DNA and Hideki was an original member of Ground Zero. Both Death Ambient albums are amazing original works of sound sculpting which can be bought direct from http://www.tzadik.com Frith was written up in the Wire... have a look at their back issue page as it wasn't that long ago and should still be available. I'd recommend that fans of This Heat look out for Charles Hayward's live in Japan CD's on Locus Solus. The Double Agents one where he plays alongside Otomo Yoshihide, Tatsuya Yoshida, Keiji Haino and Peter Brotzmann is a blinder. The more solo Near and Far isn't really as great but isn't as below par as, say, New Order's last album as compared to Unknown Pleasures. If you like This Heat, you might also like Death Ambient, but... There is nothing like Death Ambient! Graeme (listening to This Heat - Repeat) ===== Cracked Machine irregular cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "What one thinks of as extremes seldom are" :: BC Gilbert Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:26:20 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] napster etc going along from this residents thread i'll just point out there is a stack of residents stuff up on napster. i'm just downloading this "valley" track btw,,,,, alot of bands (including wire) seem to have been removed from napster now , i guess you need to search song titles (yawn). i guess its winding down gradually , shame.p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:23:19 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents stephen graziano wrote :- >I think what you're referring to is actually a 2lp set entitled: "Ralph >Records 10th Anniversay Radio Special" - with host Penn Jillette, featuring >the music of The Residents, Snakefinger, Tuxedomoon, Fred Frith, Yello, >Renaldo & the Loaf, MX-80 Sound, Chrome, Art Bears - RR8502 c1982....... yeah, this must be the one, my memory of it's a bit vague... haven't heard it since 1990-ish. but i do remember it being like nothing else i'd ever heard before. the other one my friend passed on was the 'Potatoes' compilation which i still play now and again, strange stuff indeed. ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:28:05 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-the ongoing V/Vm debate... Rick >Kind of sad I'm so out of the loop on a group that >already has a backlash going! (and further to Mr.Bursa's comments...) actually, the sad fact of the matter is that you're only just after the start of the loop. this is classic 'UK-village' stuff. here, a band with the right contacts can create a fuss before they even release their first single, purely because this funky little island of ours is so small and yet so influential. don't forget, because of the size of the place, communication travels fast, and i'm not talking ADSL!!!! ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:30:22 +0100 From: "ian jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-New Order...again... Tim wrote :- But you see New Order are perfectly capable of pissing on their own legacy without anyone elses help..... absolutely, in all the times i saw NO they were truly great only maybe 3 or 4 times, their 2nd gig (which i've already discussed on the list), a Futurama appearance at Deeside Leisure Centre (82?83?) and the two nighter at Liverpool's State Ballroom (84? again, already gone into). the rest of the time they've been pretty poor, probably very drunk...maybe, but still terrible. as for NO recordings...one word...'Confusion', one of the biggest steaming piles of horse-shit ever (i blame Madonna), and much, much, much worse than 'World In Motion'. yes, i know, the words of a football freak, but i'm strictly locked into musical critique at the moment. '...there's only one way to beat them, get round the back...' ^_^ ian.s.j. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:37:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-Residents On Thu, 17 May 2001 Chris.Ray@medas.co.uk wrote: > Arrrghh. > > >>>featuring the music of The Residents, Snakefinger, Tuxedomoon, Fred > Frith, Yello, Renaldo & the Loaf, MX-80 Sound, Chrome, Art Bears - RR8502 > c1982. > > Have you heard Renaldo??? 'Orrible noise. Stay clear of their The Elbow Is > Taboo album. Oh, I don't know - at any rate, I rather like _Songs for Swinging Larvae_ and _Arabic Yodelling_. I think it was a bit downhill after that, but still worth listening to. Very weird, manic, and creative acoustic manipulation of sound (not synths or samplers - tape edits etc. - plus just odd arrangements of actually instruments). I don't listen to them that much any more - but maybe now I will. - --Jeffrey with 2 Fs Jeffrey J e f f r e y N o r m a n The Architectural Dance Society www.uwm.edu/~jenor/ADS.html ::a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous...got me? __Captain Beefheart__ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:50:46 +0100 From: Tim Robinson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A potentially embarassing question... Rick Said: I've been following the v/vm thread for a while and have to say I have no clue who they are. So what does v/vm stand for? I've no idea, I suspect it doesn't mean anything. xcellent. The v/vm backlash is gathering momentum. Kind of sad I'm so out of the loop on a group that already has a backlash going! Maybe, But I've no idea who the Residents are, or the Television Personalities and quite a few of the other bands that have been mentioned in the last few posts! Forget v/vm though. You are not missing much. Lets stop talking about v/vm now folks! They really do not merit discussion on this list! There are some fine musical minds on this list, we should be aspiring to greater things! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 01:34:08 +0100 From: Dr Volume Subject: re: [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones Graeme Wrote: > >Just wanted to say that my appreciation of my least > >favourite Wir(e) album The First Letter continues to > >increase... Its the only one I haven't got. Never liked the idea of Colin with Pony Tail, Lewis with Mullet, Gilbert in bad shades, and no Gotobed. Liked Vien though which prompted me to look for it. Seems to be increasingly scarce. I've been looking for it for a while to no avail. I prefer to buy in shops rather than over the net because I live in a flat and mail sometimes goes walkies before it gets to my mailbox. > >Listened with headphones for the first time last night > >whilst my wife listened to the Radio 1 rock show > >(sometimes they play 1-2 good tracks but 2 hrs of > >cheese is too much to bear!). Was that the show presented by the dreaded Mary Anne Hobbs? I know someone who knows her and she knows jack shit about music, has about 10 cds in her flat and bases her selection on bands that invite her to parties and give her coke to shove up her rotting nose. I preferred Radio 1 when it was DLT, Gary Davies, Steve Wright in the afternoon, Janice Long for tea and Peelie for bedtime. I went in a shop today and they had R1 on, with Chris Moyles rambling on for abouit 20 minutes without playing a single song.......basically doing what Simon Bates used to do......despite a serious makeover and change of staff Radio 1 (John Peel, Mark Radcliffe and former Fall bassist Mark Riley excepted) is just as reactionary, jaded and clueless as it was in the 80s. I prefer Radio 4! It rocks! > >. There are some great > >Gilbert (?) noises in there that I just hadn't noticed > >before. With living in a flat I tend to listen to everything on headphones so as not to disturb my neighbours (3 lovely japanse girls who never make any noise). Its also around midnight before I get time for some proper listening. I find it hard to listen to anything through speakers properly as I'm so used to phones, and I never leave the flat without my walkman. (Just upgraded to Minidisc so I can copy vinyl stuff to it...awesome). All the Wire stuff sounds great in headphones. Dome is essential in headphones otherwise you'll miss half the stuff thats going on. / > > Then Bruce's voice reveals character I'd never > >noticed on my other favourite Ticking Mouth. Wow I didn't know bruce did a vocal on this record. Now I have to get it! > >12 Times You opens the door to a new approach of > >hacking up live performances into ever more > >frantically hyper-rocking onslaughts. Have you heard the last Silo single that Colin remixed? Very much in that vein. But to be honest 12 Times U leaves me cold. I don't know why. > >Then again its perhaps not such a new approach > >considering IBTABA, where they took the live tracks to > >bits and put them back again... I listened to Colins internet radio broadcast and I presumed that they are going to do something along those lines as a new album...maybe including the Crazy About Love version. > > and there's that > >Strange sample that Take It is based on. Do you mean its a strange sample or a sample from the song 'Strange'.? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:55:31 EDT From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones 3 lovely Japanese girls who never make any noise... now why won't that image leave my head?? Sean I should have known better.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:15:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The First Letter on Headphones << Was that the show presented by the dreaded Mary Anne Hobbs? I know someone who knows her and she knows jack shit about music, has about 10 cds in her flat and bases her selection on bands that invite her to parties and give her coke to shove up her rotting nose.<< Now THERE'S a surprise... >>I went in a shop today and they had R1 on, with Chris Moyles rambling on for abouit 20 minutes without playing a single song.......basically doing what Simon Bates used to do...... >> and another one! >>I preferred Radio 1 when it was DLT, Gary Davies, Steve Wright in the afternoon, Janice Long for tea and Peelie for bedtime. << Try Radio 2! Since GLR was screwed over and turned into London Live (a less interesting Radio 5, basically, whereas before it actually played decent music) I've been listening to XFM in London recently - and again the DJs know absolutely jack shit about music. You couldn't level that at the Smashie 'n' Nicey brigade. They were knowledgeable - but just had poor taste. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 02:58:20 -0000 From: "kevin alexander" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] off topic-New Order...again... I only saw NO once, in Portland,Oregon around 89? Throwing Muses of all people opened for them. I had heard that their shows could be hit or miss, but I have to say that this one was was vey good-well worth it. As an aside, for those people out in the Pacific Northwest US., they are playing at the "Gorge ampitheater, " ( a *great* place to see shows, as previously mentioned on this list ) sometime in early August....It's some kind of music festival, which seem to grow exponentially with each passing summer. Still, might be interesting to see what they are up to these days... As for "World in Motion," I'm probably pouring a bit of gas on the fire, but I think while not as good as some of their other work, when taken in a purely "pop" context, it's brilliant. Kevin-- >From: "ian jackson" >To: "idealcopy" >Subject: [idealcopy] off topic-New Order...again... >Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 21:30:22 +0100 > >Tim wrote :- >But you see New Order are perfectly capable of pissing on their own >legacy without anyone elses help..... > >absolutely, in all the times i saw NO they were truly great only >maybe 3 or 4 times, their 2nd gig (which i've already discussed on the >list), a Futurama appearance at Deeside Leisure Centre (82?83?) >and the two nighter at Liverpool's State Ballroom (84? again, >already gone into). the rest of the time they've been pretty poor, >probably very drunk...maybe, but still terrible. >as for NO recordings...one word...'Confusion', one of the >biggest steaming piles of horse-shit ever (i blame Madonna), >and much, much, much worse than 'World In Motion'. >yes, i know, the words of a football freak, but i'm strictly >locked into musical critique at the moment. > >'...there's only one way to beat them, >get round the back...' ^_^ > >ian.s.j. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:21:19 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] world in motion-re: New Order...again... In a message dated 5/17/01 11:07:01 PM, kevin__alexander@hotmail.com writes: >As for "World in Motion," I'm probably pouring a bit of gas on the fire, >but I think while not as good as some of their other work, when taken in >a purely "pop" context, it's brilliant. i agree, it served it's purpose. personally i prefer the colourbox world cup theme, but i'd rather hear the worst of new order 20 times at a mets game than to have to sit through who let the dogs out and a ton of other crap they blast at shea stadium. gary glitter is the only thing i have to look forward to, besides an exciting mets win, when i go to a game. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 22:55:45 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] off topic-New Order...again... >As an aside, for those people out in the Pacific Northwest US., >they are playing at the "Gorge ampitheater, " ( a *great* place >to see shows, as previously mentioned on this list ) Yes - did I mention that I'll be seeing Radiohead there? (^_^) (Ahhh - The Gorge...) > sometime in early August....It's some kind of music festival, > which seem to grow exponentially with each passing summer. The festival is called Area One, and it was created by Moby, of all people... Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V4 #152 *******************************